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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / Warcraft / May 2006Professions broken?
Hi, I'm just wondering what others thoughts are on this. It seems to me, many professions are essentially broken - you don't really make money on them and most of the items you can craft are not as good as what drops out in the world. And, these are just some random thoughts, not claiming it to be fact and mostly curious about what others think. My specific skills are leatherworking and skinning. True, I can skin and sell for profit - rugged leather sells at a decent price. But for leatherworking, I have a hard time actually earning any useful amount of money. Yes, I do make a profit but the profit is relatively small and I could make more just grinding usually then the time spent invested in leveling up leatherworking. I have 300 leatherworking now. I choose Elemental as my specialization. There don't seem to be many Elemental recipes out there. Out of the few that I have, Helm of Fire is the only one that seems to sell (Gauntlets of the Sea always come back to me from AH). And the Helm of Fire - I need to sell it for about 30g or else I am better off just selling the mats. The mats alone on my server come to about 28g (if you include the money I could get for selling 40 thick leather). And if the helm comes back a few times, I can even end up loosing money on it. This seems to be a recurring problem. I can craft several of the Stormshroud set, but the mats are so expensive, and the ones that are currently listed sell for way below what one could get just for the mats. Part of the problem here also seems that most Rogues want the Shadowcraft set in this level range. It just seems that as a 300 leatherworker, I should be able to make items better then what can be found - or at least very close. Of course they should require rare materials but then again, back to square one - the mats sell for more then the items. Also, can items created by a leatherworker also be found as world drops? i.e. does Helm of Fire drop anyplace? If so, I believe this is wrong. Crafted items should only be available as crafted items - not a random drop so someone can sell it far below cost. Anyway, I know Engineering is not a money maker either. I have heard that herbalism is, but what about Alchemist? I see the Major Healing Potions are going for 8 to 9g for a stack of 5 on my server. And they don't last long either before they are bought out. I just think I am maybe getting tired of leatherworking, it doesn't seem to exciting now at level 300 and I don't really make much cash. The armor kits do sell pretty good also, but you are talking a small amount of profit, especially over what just the raw leather sells for. Anyway, finished emptying my brain now. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Anyway, finished emptying my brain now. My son has elemental leatherworking as well, its helped equip my rogue as he is levelling, but he has never made much out of it. Its quite a contrast, our first chars that we got to 40, i was mining/skinning he was skinning/leatherworking. I got to 40 with 130G, he had 25G. Hes only got a mount now at 45 because i payed for it. Blacksmithing, a few sell (truesilver champion, shining plate, green iron hauberk etc) but you cant sell high due to competition. Never made much out of rods, noone seems to buy keys. Enchanting: Just spent a small fortune power-levelling this, will let you know but looks a money drain, and if id been level 25 when i got to 225 (ie picked at the start) i would have been seriously annoyed when i found out where master trainer is. Alchemy: Not sure but herbs sell so nicely it seems a waste to not sell them! So yeah i think crafts, while not broken exactly have been designed to be hard to make money from. > I'm just wondering what others thoughts are on this. It seems to me, > many professions are essentially broken - you don't really make money > on them and most of the items you can craft are not as good as what > drops out in the world. a) I have not found one profession yet that didn't earn me money. b) A crafted item will always be worse than a BoE and a BoE item will always be worse than a BoP item. This is by design and it actually makes sense. > My specific skills are leatherworking and skinning. True, I can skin > and sell for profit - rugged leather sells at a decent price. But for > leatherworking, I have a hard time actually earning any useful amount > of money. Yes, I do make a profit but the profit is relatively small > and I could make more just grinding usually then the time spent > invested in leveling up leatherworking. You spend time leveling up? Or do you consider gathering raw materials "leveling up leatherworking". Well, this is grinding, right? So you grind and level up at the same time. > I have 300 leatherworking now. I choose Elemental as my > specialization. There don't seem to be many Elemental recipes out > there. Out of the few that I have, Helm of Fire is the only one that > seems to sell (Gauntlets of the Sea always come back to me from AH). > And the Helm of Fire - I need to sell it for about 30g or else I am > better off just selling the mats. Ah, "I'm better off just selling the mats" is different to "I can't make money with my profession." I hate to say it, but you can't request a tax refund because you had no income, just because someone else made more money than you. Your profit is your income - your costs. Not theoretical income - true income. (Of course companies would love to be able to say they made 2 billion loss because the competitor sold the products much better and thus deserve a tax refund, although they made 3 billion profit (but the other company 5 billion)). > The mats alone on my server come to about 28g (if you include the > money I could get for selling 40 thick leather). And if the helm > comes back a few times, I can even end up loosing money on it. Materials are used for a) levelling up/crafting something else b) crafting the helm Therefore, the materials are interesting for those that want the helm and those that want to level or something else. Therefore, the demand for the materials is higher than the demand for the helm, because those that want the helm are of course less than the total of those who want the helm and those who want to level up. And as we know, price is determined by demand and availability. The fact that the price for the helm is around the price for the material shows actually a well-balanced economy (in a world where your work actually is only clicking a button. For a plain gold coin without any craftsmanship involved you would expect to pay something around the current gold price, right?) If the material would be much cheaper than the helm price, you would make a lot of profit. This would increase the demand for the material (you want to make even more profit, don't you?) and increase the availability of the crafted item (you don't think you are the only one who figured out that there is profit in this item and tries to sell it?). So very soon material is in short supply and a lot of helms on the market. No profit anymore. > I should be able to make items better then what can be > found - or at least very close. Of course they should require rare > materials but then again, back to square one - the mats sell > for more then the items. Assuming you make items that are better than what can be found. What is the incentive for the non-crafter to go into dungeons? And why do you think you would make more profit with them? If they are better, you increase the demand, right. But at the same time you increase the total amount of crafters, thus reducing the amount of gatherers (and enchanters). With a lot of crafters and very few gatherers, the raw material prices go insane, so insane that people will say the benefit of the item is just not worth the money and they won't buy. If they don't buy, the profit shrinks. The profit shrinks, people will switch professions, until there is a balance between what people will pay and what the materials will cost.. You get the point. > Also, can items created by a leatherworker also be found as world > drops? No. There are exceptions though, f.e. bags, which are made by tailors but are also found. But otherwise, armor and weapons etc. are not found. > Anyway, I know Engineering is not a money maker either. If you say so... > I have heard that herbalism is, but what about Alchemist? The above basics are true for all professions. > I just think I am maybe getting tired of leatherworking, it doesn't > seem to exciting now at level 300 and I don't really make much cash. > The armor kits do sell pretty good also, but you are talking a small > amount of profit, especially over what just the raw leather sells for. If you like, you can just sell the raw leather. It doesn't really matter what you do. If everyone decides to sell raw leather because it's the money maker, 1 month later it will no longer be the money maker, because the availability is much higher than the demand. Yes, all excellent points and thanks for the response. Regarding my comment about Engineering not making money, I don't have any experience with it but have been told that by some others. I believed this mainly because as far as I know many of the items you can craft require engineering to use as well (certainly I could be wrong here). Of course, there are some neat items you can make use of with engineering. Also, are there any purple leatherworking patterns? I'm guessing there are, anyone know where or what they are? Thanks > Regarding my comment about Engineering not making money, I don't have > any experience with it but have been told that by some others. I > believed this mainly because as far as I know many of the items you can > craft require engineering to use as well (certainly I could be wrong > here). There was a thread about moneymaking as an engineer some time ago: http://groups.google.dk/group/alt.games.warcraft/browse_thread/thread/67d6cb2b0b e485d4/6c8c86e685373d2b?q=engineering&rnum=7#6c8c86e685373d2b -Aph >Also, are there any purple leatherworking patterns? I'm guessing there >are, anyone know where or what they are? Well, if you mean patterns that are purple, then there are three - one for each specialization. The elemental one is for Shifting Cloak, but they all drop from Knot's cache in Dire Maul. You can see all of them here: http://www.thottbot.com/?te=Leatherworking On the other hand, if you mean patterns that produce purple items, then there are a few more - I believe the ones elemental can make is Molten Helm, Shifting Cloak, Lava Belt (no spec needed), and Molten Belt. Take a look at: http://www.thottbot.com/?t=Leatherworking  SignatureRegards Simon Nejmann > Regarding my comment about Engineering not making money, I don't have > any experience with it but have been told that by some others. I > believed this mainly because as far as I know many of the items you can > craft require engineering to use as well (certainly I could be wrong > here). Never ever rely on what others say. If we assume 50% of the players know more about the game than you and 50% know less, (resp. you are in middle) there are 3 million guys around who give a bad advice. Correct, engineering items can only be used by engineers. Engineering components though are used for quests more than any other profession. Deadly Blunderbuss (okay, not a component, but engineering), mithril case, dynamite, instable triggers, thorium widgets, recipe: rocket fuel (needed for rocket fuel by alchemists which again is now needed for the T 0.5 quests.. and for the AQ recipe).... Then we have the gadgets like the discombulator ray, that will dismount an enemy on the battlefield. And specials like the snowmaster 9000. In order to make money with your profession, you need to know your wares and your customers, this is the key to money making. While grinding and gathering is the money maker for everyone, crafting professions are just not everyone, because it requires a different kind of skill. Especially enchanting relies to 75% on social skills. If an enchanter tells me that he can't make profit as everyone just brings materials and wants the work for free, I can guarantee I know how he tries to sell his enchants... >Ah, "I'm better off just selling the mats" is different to "I can't >make money >with my profession." I hate to say it, but you can't request a tax >refund because you had no income, just because someone else >made more money than you. You are, effectively, saying that leatherworking isn't profitable unless you also have skinning, therefore leatherworking in and of itself isn't profitable. I have seen it suggested that skinning and herbalism are good professions to take, but no-one ever says that alchemy and leatherworking are worthwhile. Phil Hibbs. >>Ah, "I'm better off just selling the mats" is different to "I can't >>make money >>with my profession." I hate to say it, but you can't request a tax >>refund because you had no income, just because someone else >>made more money than you. >You are, effectively, saying that leatherworking isn't profitable >unless you also have skinning, therefore leatherworking in and of >itself isn't profitable. I have seen it suggested that skinning and >herbalism are good professions to take, but no-one ever says that >alchemy and leatherworking are worthwhile. It looks to me that, in general, sell what you make as you're skilling up - after that, DON'T pre-make items to sell, only sell your services. Have people bring you all the mats, and you'll make the item for a fee/tip. If they can't find all the mats and you have them, sell them the mats. It's also better for the buyer, because they may have some of the mats already. This has the down side that everything turns into live 1-on-1 transactions like enchanting - you no longer make items to put up for auction, you have to spam your offers to make items for mats+fee. But you can also be up against people still skilling up, who will do it just for the mats... Gathering always makes money, because you pick up stuff for free and sell it for non-zero amounts of money. --- Merlyn LeRoy > >Ah, "I'm better off just selling the mats" is different to "I can't >>make money [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > herbalism are good professions to take, but no-one ever says that > alchemy and leatherworking are worthwhile. Alchemy and leatherworking are worthwhile. I've made more money doing tranmutes than anything, and the guild uses alot of potions and some flasks. And without a leatherworker you cant make Ony cloaks which are required for BWL. But yea, you arent going to find may recipes where you just buy stuff off the AH, click your book and resell it for big profit. The nature of human economies prevents it. > >Ah, "I'm better off just selling the mats" is different to "I can't > >make money with my profession." I hate to say it, but you can't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > herbalism are good professions to take, but no-one ever says that > alchemy and leatherworking are worthwhile. They are profitable. I can f.e. purchase all raw materials for the Barbaric Bracers for less than 2 gold. Tooth 4x 10 silver Small Pearls 4x10 silver Leather 75 silver Naga scale 5-10 silver heavy hide 2x10 silver They sell within 8 hours 100% for 3 gold 50. That's 1,50 gold profit. There are at least 3 money makers for each profession that are sufficient to earn enough money till level 40 to buy a mount. Deadly Blunderbuss for engineers, Barbaric Bracers for leatherworking, Fire Resistance for echanters, Robes of Arcana for tailors, blacksmithing.. hmm.. the only profession I didn't play yet, but there are for sure. Give me a month and I tell you. Disclaimer: Each server has a slightly different economy. The above might not be true for your server, but then something else will be the money maker. > a) I have not found one profession yet that didn't earn me money. If you take time and materials into account, few finished items will make you profit, and if you consider the costs of getting a crafting skill up, you might well end up making more money just selling the materials. > b) A crafted item will always be worse than a BoE and a BoE item > will always be worse than a BoP item. This is by design and it actually > makes sense. I disagree. There are numerous crafted items, especially the newer ones, that beat various BoEs and BoPs (look at some of the new blacksmith recipes that drop in AQ). There are certainly many crafted items that are better than BoEs (same level range) .. just name some BoE or even BoP equivalents for the lionheart helm, the heartseeker, the shifting cloak ... or on lower levels, the phantom blade. You won't find many. Of course, very few, if any, crafted items can compete with BWL or AQ40 raid drops, but most people don't have access to such items and for them craftable items can beat whatever else is available to them. In a recent NY Times interview, one of the designers said that they estimate that 25% of the players have seen Ragnaros, and 15% Nefarian. Our group has BWL on farm status since months ago already, but that just isn't true for the large majority of the players. > If you like, you can just sell the raw leather. It doesn't really > matter > what you do. If everyone decides to sell raw leather because it's > the money maker, 1 month later it will no longer be the money > maker, because the availability is much higher than the demand. Yes, that's true in theory, however, it's not how the game really works. I've been playing since release (well, beta, too, but that's irrelevant in this context) and raw materials have almost always made more money than finished products, almost regardless of level range. Sure, you can do it like a raid mate of mine does; he sells crafted Sage Blades for 1000g a piece (and buys the materials for 450-500g), but that only works on a mature server and only if you are the only one, or one of the few, with a particular recipe. My priest is an alchemist, and has always been one. For example, there is simply no reason to make mana potions if you can sell a stack of dreamfoil for 12-20 gold. You'd have to ask a silly price for a stack of major mana potions, which won't even work because the China farmers sell them for a gold a piece. I make enough money just by raiding (two and a half hours of BWL net 30g), so whenever I make potions, it's for free, for my raiding group, or if someone supplies the materials. But if I wanted to make money, I'd either sell herbs or simply fish stonescale eels... those sell for 20-25g a stack, and you can fish up that amount in an hour. M. > > a) I have not found one profession yet that didn't earn me money. > If you take time and materials into account, few finished items will make > you profit, and if you consider the costs of getting a crafting skill up, > you might well end up making more money just selling the materials. Again you come up with the argument that selling materials makes more money. Do you thing McD makes no profit, just because they could sell the salad for more in a french restaurant? > > b) A crafted item will always be worse than a BoE and a BoE item > > will always be worse than a BoP item. This is by design and it actually > > makes sense. > I disagree. There are numerous crafted items, especially the newer ones, > that beat various BoEs and BoPs (look at some of the new blacksmith recipes > that drop in AQ). You are comparing completely different things. If you talk about a recipe from MC, which requires reagents from MC, then of course the crafted item will be better then what you find in the Wailing Caverns or Deadmines. If you show me the best recipe for a certain area (area includes skill _and_ availability) I will show you a better or comparable drop. > Yes, that's true in theory, however, it's not how the game really works. > I've been playing since release (well, beta, too, but that's irrelevant in > this context) and raw materials have almost always made more money than > finished products, almost regardless of level range. I've been playing since release, too. Of course this is the case of what you describe. I explained why the demand for raw materials is much higher. You still believe that profit is only when you make the best possible profit and that income only counts when you made the best possible income. This is just not true. Picking up dreamfoil costs you exactly nothing. From there on you calculate your profit. > Again you come up with the argument that selling materials > makes more money. Do you thing McD makes no profit, > just because they could sell the salad for more in a > french restaurant? If McDonalds could sell me raw meat and a bun for $10, or make it into a burger and sell it to me for $5, would you say that making burgers was a profitable activity for them? Cheers! David... >Do you thing McD makes no profit, >just because they could sell the salad >for more in a french restaurant? Don't bring the real world into it, because the economics are very different from real life. I think one of the reasons that materials sell for more than finished products is that a raw material can often be converted to a finished product for zero cost, so the materials are more useful due to the versatility that is lost when a trade skill is applied. Also, people will take a loss on trade skills because it gets them a skill-up. I might farm (or buy) a bunch of leather that would sell for 50s, make some crappy pairs of trousers out of them, and vendor them for a total of 20s or put them on the auction house for 40, just because I get three skill-ups for doing it. There's no way that McDonalds is going to do that. Phil Hibbs. >a raw material can often >be converted to a finished product for zero cost, And by cost I mean time as well as money, the time taken to make a pair of trousers is almost zero, whereas the time taken to gather the leather (or herbs) is very significant. Phil Hibbs. > Don't bring the real world into it, because the economics are very > different from real life. Yup! > think one of the reasons that materials > sell for more than finished products is that a raw material can often > be converted to a finished product for zero cost, so the materials are > more useful due to the versatility that is lost when a trade skill is > applied. Bingo! > Also, people will take a loss on trade skills because it gets > them a skill-up. I might farm (or buy) a bunch of leather that would > sell for 50s, make some crappy pairs of trousers out of them, and > vendor them for a total of 20s or put them on the auction house for 40, > just because I get three skill-ups for doing it. We have a winner! AH sales are subsidising skill levelling in the production trades, as people aim for end-game skills where they can forge/create items in instances. (or so I'm told, haven't got anywhere decent yet). Gathering trades level automatically, so its a very pure calculation. Also, since herbs/leather/ore can be used for multiple purposes, their demand is higher -- some guy might want to make copper pants, another guy runed copper vest, etc. Pure profit means you're farming herbs and selling at an AH. Very boring, bot-like work. I see these skills as an added incentive to explore. As I've stated previously, its also very good for first time players, where the gear being made IS actually useful, since you're not swapping between 10 different alts, or within a guild. > >Do you thing McD makes no profit, > >just because they could sell the salad [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > applied. Also, people will take a loss on trade skills because it gets > them a skill-up. Uhm, this is exactly what I've written. This does not change the fact that spending $1 and getting $3 is a profit of $2. And it stays a profit of $2, no matter how many people will spend $1 and get $4. > Uhm, this is exactly what I've written. > > This does not change the fact that spending $1 and getting $3 is a > profit of $2. And it stays a profit of $2, no matter how many people > will spend $1 and get $4. The problem people are discussing is that most recipes for most professions involve spending $1 and getting 80c back in return. Cheers! David... > The problem people are discussing is that most recipes for most > professions involve spending $1 and getting 80c back in return. Depends. My 20+ hunter could spend time in Redridge farming Black Dragonwhelps and make armor for a profit, and there's also profit in farming Murlocs in Wetlands for the armor you make out of their scales. My blacksmithing paladin likewise got a tidy profit selling Ironforge Breastplate. Just pick the right recipes, and nothing of the trainer-provided mass-manufactured stuff. Quest/drop/vendor recipes for the win. >> > a) I have not found one profession yet that didn't earn me money. >> If you take time and materials into account, few finished items will make [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > just because they could sell the salad for more in a > french restaurant? I would agree with Michael that often the "creating professions" make a loss, if you are a skinner, leatherworker and find that the skins on the AH make more for you than you get by making them into something (leather armour) and selling them, then skinning is a moneymaker and leatherworking is a loss maker. I don't think your analogy works - it is more like if MacD could make more money selling its beef at cattlemarkets than they can as beefburgers then I am pretty sure they would do so. Most professions seem to have a limited number of items where the crafting actually "Add Value" >> > b) A crafted item will always be worse than a BoE and a BoE item >> > will always be worse than a BoP item. This is by design and it actually [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > will be > better then what you find in the Wailing Caverns or Deadmines. This is where any profession can make money - It is reasonable to expect that if you are lucky and get a very rare recipie, or if you can venture places where the masses cannot go (higer instances) then the things you get and create are likely to be those where supply is far less than demand and hence profitable. I was lucky (maybe not lucky, but willing to do the worst bit of scholo) and got the felcloth bag pattern very early on on Terenas and sold several for 80g a shot - now I can flog the components for more than a completed bag so I no longer make them unless a guildmate wants one. SignatureTixover / Stalls / Tlxover / Mum (EU Terenas) >> > a) I have not found one profession yet that didn't earn me money. >> If you take time and materials into account, few finished items will make [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > just because they could sell the salad for more in a > french restaurant? If making salads involved a single click and anyone could do it so McD had competitors on every corner then I guarantee you their profits would be almost non-existent. The way to make profit is to sell something no one else can sell (have a patent) or reduce your costs to less than what anyone else can (have a secret process). You normally dont have either of these advantages in wow. When many people try to make a profit selling healing pots the price of mats rises and the price of pots lowers. This is the nature of human economy. > > Again you come up with the argument that selling materials > > makes more money. Do you thing McD makes no profit, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > competitors on every corner then I guarantee you their profits would be > almost non-existent. You don't want to tell me you can't make a salad or a burger on your own? > When many people try to make a profit selling healing pots the price of mats > rises and the price of pots lowers. This is the nature of human economy. The same is true for raw materials themselves, isn't it? >> > Again you come up with the argument that selling materials >> > makes more money. Do you thing McD makes no profit, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You don't want to tell me you can't make a salad or a burger on your > own? It's not a single click for me or for McD. If you could snap your fingers and make a salad would you continue buying from McD? Of course not. Not at those prices. >> When many people try to make a profit selling healing pots the price of >> mats >> rises and the price of pots lowers. This is the nature of human economy. > > The same is true for raw materials themselves, isn't it? Not quite. It's true that if there were pricing pressure the farmers would lower their prices (though not as much since farming takes more effort). However there are more buyers than sellers so the pressure is going the other way. Farmers are able to sell for as much as potion makers are willing to pay, and that happens to be at the rate where potion makers are just able to break even. >Farmers are able to sell for as much as potion makers are >willing to pay, and that happens to be at the rate where potion >makers are just able to break even. Not even close. Most potions will only sell for substantially less than the reagents. Someone wanted Ghost Dye, and was only willing to pay 2g for it. The mushrooms cost twice that, at least! He said he had bought them for 2g each before, and that was a reasonable price. I wished him good luck. Phil Hibbs. well, when chinesse farmers were around you could see a stack of mana pots for 2g > >Farmers are able to sell for as much as potion makers are >>willing to pay, and that happens to be at the rate where potion [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Phil Hibbs. Saintanger: >well, when chinesse farmers were around you could see a stack of >mana pots for 2g What does than imply? Sorry, I can't remember how much Mana Potions normally go for - is that more or less than the materials? I'm guessing it's more, because 5 Stranglekelp aren't worth that much, and I think that's the most expensive reagent (I don't sell Mana Potions any more, I just make them for guildies). If it's less, I'm guessing that they were drops rather than manufactured, thus reducing the possibility of making money on alchemy. Excuse me for being dim but I can't work out what point you are trying to make. Phil Hibbs. > Saintanger: >>well, when chinesse farmers were around you could see a stack of >>mana pots for 2g > > What does than imply? Sorry, I can't remember how much Mana Potions > normally go for - is that more or less than the materials? Thats way cheaper than normal. They were using a hacker program in DM and pots were part of the rewards in the chest. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Anyway, finished emptying my brain now. I don't think professions are broken, as much as they are stagnant, and by design a money and time sink, one of the areas of the game where Blizzard is blatantly wasting your time so you play more. Standard fare for MMOGs, I seem to find out. There have been no changes to professions since release, and the official word is, they consider them "done", with the exception the addition of jewelcrafting in the expansion. (Change being changes in the machanics or requirements of, new patterns have been added in raids and high level content). Learn to love them, or hate them, but they are what they are, and will be this way forward, so speaks Blizzard. *shrug* i agree they're a time sink, not sure they're a 'money waster' though. if you're playing untwinked characters not in a guild, they can be extremely useful. for example, my skinner/hunter rogue is producing leather sets for my NE rogue -- as my rogue levels she's always receiving mail packages of armour far better than anything she has found herself, or earned through quests. likewise, she's stockpiling disenchants for future recipes, and the herbs she gathers she sends to a friend alchemist... he churns out potions regularly, that he flips over to both the hunter and rogue. Now runewords in D2, no THERE is a timesink...i'm sure it will be just as bad in the expansion for Wow too. I think I killed Diablo 50 time just to get a Lum once...i ended up trading down for it. without optimising quests in advance (i'm learning as I play), or joining a guild, i find the gathering and productions skills quite useful. i doubt i'll ever do more than break-even, but they're effective for the time being. my attitude might change as recipes become more complex and time consuming to collect ingredients, but up to skill level ~ 125 in any set the outputs are worthwhile. > receiving mail packages of armour far better than anything she has > found herself, or earned through quests. But better than what you can buy from the AH? And, if you had sold the materials you spent on leveling your profession up, would you not have been able to buy the worthwhile pieces of armour for a fraction of the costs in the AH? It's just a hypothetical question. My priest has always been an alchemist because it's fun and I like the profession, not because I wanted or needed to make money. (I earned my first mount with blackmouthes and firefinsnappers, and while I grinded for my first epic mount back then, today I would do it through fishing up stonescale eels.) So, I understand doing a profession for fun. But if it's about money, gathering professions clearly beat out the crafting professions. M. > Hi, > > I'm just wondering what others thoughts are on this. It seems to me, > many professions are essentially broken - you don't really make money > on them and most of the items you can craft are not as good as what > drops out in the world. I have to agree with your sentiments here (snipped rest of post for length). There is something that an Elemental Leatherworker can create that is a highly desirable item - the Shifting Cloak. However, one of the materials for this is Bind on Pickup, and only drops in Scholomance. Another - the Guardian Stones - need to be farmed from only one mob. This is highly unbalanced when you compare it to say, the Hide of the Wild, which is Tribal Leatherworking and again highly desirable. Add to that the fact that both patterns are very rare drops... There are a lot of patterns though that you get through reputation or dungeon drops, and making these items can be worthwhile. As for alchemy... well, I'm an alchemist on my main character and I wouldn't dream of changing. As a druid, I have use for Major Mana Potions and Major Healing Potions. As a raiding druid, Greater Fire Protection Potions are absolutely essential and so the ability to make them (and transmute a Heart of Fire into three Elemental Fires) is something I just wouldn't give up. I don't actively sell the potions on the AH (though I probably should!) but if I dropped the profession (I'm a herbalist too) I would spend far more. A stack of 5 Major Mana on my server seems to go for up to 15g, for example, whereas I happily chug them knowing I can get more for free whenever I want. Everyone needs potions, so it probably is the best endgame profession to pick up. Of course, if we were all alchemists, then the point would be moot :) Tailors though - mooncloth is a good seller. and everyone wants enchants but the mats can be so expensive, and people don't expect to pay for them. Forget about all the effort/money you spent being equipped to actually do the high level enchants, they just want freebies :P SignatureSue >Hi, > >I'm just wondering what others thoughts are on this. It seems to me, >many professions are essentially broken - you don't really make money >on them and most of the items you can craft are not as good as what >drops out in the world. In endgame, I agree, however while levelling up they are still useful. I found while levelling my tribal leatherworker it was fantastic, as he always had new armour pieces waiting for him whenever he levelled up, almost all of which were better than what could be bought on the AH. There was only ever 2-3 slots with brand new crafted items, so there was still a reason to buy more armour, and instance blues were usually better, so still a reason to do instances, but the crafting side had a great use as well. However at lvl 60, there's just no point any more. Of items I can make, most are green with such poor stats that no-one would buy them (ok, I've made a couple of Chimeric items for guildmates doing AQ recently), and the blues are really low level for the amount of effort they take too. Warbear items sell ok but are low 50s and make very little profit (usually take 2-3 attempts to sell, too), and while Devilsaur are excellent for rogues and I'm still wearing mine; there's usually a few on the AH at any one time, and the amount of hassle it it to kill multiple Devilsaurs for the required leather again makes them not very profitable. Most other blues simply aren't worth the effort - the Argent Dawn ones with only stamina and dodge for example. Maybe ok for druid tanks, but how many of them are there at lvl 60, when druids are regarded as healers and nothing else? The only purple item I can make is Corehound Boots - nice item, would be safe to sell well, but there's the small problem of the materials only being found in MC, and being pretty likely to be claimed by a guild's bank, not allowed to be used by individuals for profit (certainly that's how my guild works, for obvious reasons) I suspect the same is going to happen to my tailor mage when she reaches 60, with the exception that she at least can make herself an epic robe (thanks to my rogue winning the greed roll on the pattern one day!), but I get the impression there's not all that much in the way of items that endgame players will want. New lvl 60s, yes, but not those who are looking at progressing beyond the normal 5-10 man instances; even the more casual players will only want crafted items as a stepping stone until they can get better from an instance. Sure, it wouldn't be balanced to have crafted items for all slots being superior to instance drops, but having one or two more really nice items would be good. SignatureEU-Draenor: Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 60) Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 40) Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 28) Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 25) >Hi, > >I'm just wondering what others thoughts are on this. It seems to me, >many professions are essentially broken - you don't really make money >on them and most of the items you can craft are not as good as what >drops out in the world. Simple answer: If your goal is to make cash, take two of the "gathering" professions (herbalism, mining, skinning). Herbalism+mining is tough (unless you use a mod such as Gatherer) because you can't track both on the mini-map at the same time. So go skinning+herbalism or skinning+mining. Depending on server, alchemy can make some money, but likely not much more than just selling the herbs. -- Greg phobos78-marslink-net Replace dashes and move in by 1 planet to reply. OK I've done some more thinking on this from a game-balance point of view. Gathering takes time, therefore it is reasonable that it is profitable. Alchemy, leatherworking, and tailoring take almost zero time, therefore it is reasonable that there is little profit to be made from the majority of recipes. Engineering takes a bit more time as you have to make a variety of components to assemble into a finished item, but so far I have only found one easily profitable item (Deadly Blunderbus). Also (in Orgrimmar and Undercity at least) you have to go out of your way to find an anvil. I really, really hate having to run back to the bank to pickup another Malachite then back to the anvil, only to realise that I need another medium leather, run to the auction house, buy some, run to a mailbox, run back to the anvil... Maybe I should switch my hearth to Thunder Bluff for easier anvil access (there's one by the pond, conveniently close to the auction house and mailbox, I think). I don't know about blacksmith as I have not been one yet. Phil Hibbs. >OK I've done some more thinking on this from a game-balance point of >view. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >need another medium leather, run to the auction house, buy some, run to >a mailbox, run back to the anvil... Preach it, Brother! I feel your pain! :) >Maybe I should switch my hearth to Thunder Bluff for easier anvil >access (there's one by the pond, conveniently close to the auction >house and mailbox, I think). Wow, hadn't noticed that before, but you're right. I was thinking of hearthing at UC soon because the mailbox-bank-AH-anvil circuit isn't that bad there. Orgrimmar is an absolute PAIN. AH? Check. Bank? Check. Mailbox? Check. Anvil? Waaaaaaaay back in the butt-end of town. Thank the Makers I'm a hunter so I have another reason to go to go back there and I've had Aspect of the Cheetah for a few levels now. :) Gnuthulhu, Undead Warlock Fthagn, Undead Warrior Rhyleya, Troll Hunter Thunderhorn,US Remove your coat for email. >Thank the Makers I'm a hunter so I have another reason to go to >go back there and I've had Aspect of the Cheetah for a few levels now. Snap. Sadly the hunter trainer is a bit out of the way in Thunder Bluff. Phil Hibbs. |
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