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Gun damage question

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WetDogSasky - 16 May 2008 15:31 GMT
I'm playing around with a level 48 bm huntard. I have engineering
and made the Thorium Rifle 55-102 damage, 31.4 dps, increase ranged ap
+17, with +5 damage scope. I'm using Mythril Gyro Shot (+15 dps).
    The problem is that my ranged damage dropped to 173-222. I was
using the Mythril Heavy-bore Rifle 53-99 damage, 26.2 dps, increase
ranged ap +14, with +3 damage scope and my ranged damage was 187-235.
    Shouldn't that number be higher with the Thorium Rifle and it's
stats', or am I missing something here?
Mark Neil Konrad - 16 May 2008 15:54 GMT
>      I'm playing around with a level 48 bm huntard. I have engineering
> and made the Thorium Rifle 55-102 damage, 31.4 dps, increase ranged ap
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>      Shouldn't that number be higher with the Thorium Rifle and it's
> stats', or am I missing something here?

your missing the weapon speed ;)
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regards

Mark
=========================
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=arthas&n=yaelle

WetDogSasky - 16 May 2008 16:05 GMT
> > stats', or am I missing something here?
>
> your missing the weapon speed ;)

    Sorry. The Mithril Heavy-bore Rifle's speed is 2.50
              The Thorium Rifle's speed is 2.90

    Does that difference account for my reduced ranged damage then?
It's a bit confusing.
Mark Neil Konrad - 16 May 2008 16:11 GMT
>>> stats', or am I missing something here?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>      Does that difference account for my reduced ranged damage then?
> It's a bit confusing.

its the other way around (i looked both up and on the other hand its the
only way it makes sense)

you have a weapon with some insane max damage per shot, but its very slow
you have a weapon with some medium max damage per shot but it fires faster.

dps means damage per second. even though your shots turn out to deal less
damage, the fact, that you fire more shots in the same amount of time
result in more damage over time and thus your killspeed increases.

Signature

regards

Mark
=========================
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=arthas&n=yaelle

WetDogSasky - 16 May 2008 16:20 GMT
> >>> stats', or am I missing something here?
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Mark
> =========================http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=arthas&n=yaelle

    Ya, but my thinking was that since the Thorium Rifle's dps was
31.4 and the Mithril Rifle's dps was 26.2, that my ranged damage would
be higher with the Thorium Rifle. That's what I get for thinking. At
least the rifle was a skill-up for my engineering.
Mark Neil Konrad - 16 May 2008 16:31 GMT
>>>>> stats', or am I missing something here?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> be higher with the Thorium Rifle. That's what I get for thinking. At
> least the rifle was a skill-up for my engineering.

the damage displayed in your character screen is your damage per shot.
the damage you deal with the throium weapon is higher because you fire
faster.
Signature

regards

Mark
=========================
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=arthas&n=yaelle

Rob Wynne - 16 May 2008 16:33 GMT
>     Ya, but my thinking was that since the Thorium Rifle's dps was
> 31.4 and the Mithril Rifle's dps was 26.2, that my ranged damage would
> be higher with the Thorium Rifle. That's what I get for thinking. At
> least the rifle was a skill-up for my engineering.

The Thorium rifle's damage *is* higher.  The range you're looking at is the
damage output of each shot.  But since the Thorium rifle is faster, it does
more damage over time than the Mithril.

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Mark Neil Konrad - 16 May 2008 16:35 GMT
>>>>> stats', or am I missing something here?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> be higher with the Thorium Rifle. That's what I get for thinking. At
> least the rifle was a skill-up for my engineering.

in addition to that, if that already confuses you, wait until lvl 70 when
the correct weapon speed (to fire at a steady:auto 1:1 rotation) has to be
perfect in order to deal the maximum amount of damage over a period of
time, which will let you choose a lower dps weapon over a higher one just
because of the speed.

(this is offtopic)

might switch to marksman then ^^
Signature

regards

Mark
=========================
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=arthas&n=yaelle

mbgaski@gmail.com - 16 May 2008 18:41 GMT
> Ya, but my thinking was that since the Thorium Rifle's dps was
> 31.4 and the Mithril Rifle's dps was 26.2, that my ranged damage would
> be higher with the Thorium Rifle. That's what I get for thinking. At
> least the rifle was a skill-up for my engineering.

As has been said by the other posters, the Thorium Rifle's damage
output IS higher :).  DPS is really the number you want to be looking
at.  The actual damage per shot done by the weapon (which is what
you're looking at) isn't really all that important.  Your damage
output will be a function of the damage per shot combined with how
often those shots are taken.

To simplify (and exaggerate numbers for a point), lets say your
Thorium Rifle hits for 1 damage per shot, but youre Mithril Rifle hits
for 2 damage per shot. One would think that the Mithril rifle is doing
twice as much damage at first glance.

Frequency wise though, your Thorium rifle fires every 2 seconds and
the Mithril rifle fires every 5.

Over 20 seconds, the Thorium rifle has done 10 total damage.  The
Mithril rifle has only done 8.

If we expand that to say, 10 minutes, then the Thorium rifle has now
done 300 damage, while the Mithril rifle has only done 240 damage.
The lower damage shots hitting more frequently turn out to be better.

As Mark alluded to, as you level up and get to end game, with a BM
spec this will become more complicated.  You'll have to turn down
faster weapons (usually anything under 2.40 speed or so) even if they
do more DPS, because a high speed bow can start to "clip" your special
attacks so that they don't start and end between auto shots, and so
their affect on your rotation will lower your DPS even though looked
at independently the bow appears to be great.

Mike
Marco Dieckhoff - 16 May 2008 16:12 GMT
>>      I'm playing around with a level 48 bm huntard. I have engineering
>> and made the Thorium Rifle 55-102 damage, 31.4 dps, increase ranged ap
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> your missing the weapon speed ;)

Not neccessary, as he postet weapon damage and dps.

55-102 damage = 78,5 mean at 31.4dps = 2.5 speed
53-99 damage = 76mean at 26.2 dps = 2.9 speed

But that's not the solution.
It looks as if Thorium Rifle has to perform better.

I tried fiddling around with the scopes resulting in 60-107 and
56-102 damage, and the 15 dps coming from the bullets, but I can't
find any hints why Thorium Rifle would perform worse.

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Marco Dieckhoff
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Moosen - 16 May 2008 16:53 GMT
>>>      I'm playing around with a level 48 bm huntard. I have engineering
>>> and made the Thorium Rifle 55-102 damage, 31.4 dps, increase ranged ap
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>56-102 damage, and the 15 dps coming from the bullets, but I can't
>find any hints why Thorium Rifle would perform worse.

The best method for finding out which is really better, is to download
and install a mod like Recount, which gives you a quick and accurate
reading on exactly how much real dps your char is outputting. Install
the mod, then go find an area with a bunch of similar mobs, and kill
50 of them with one gun- then check your dps. Then swap guns, kill 50
of those same mobs again, and check your dps. This will give you a
pretty good idea of which gun is actually doing more damage in
realtime, and killing stuff faster.
 
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