Whats the latest release date for HL2 in the UK?

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Mike Barnard - 21 Dec 2003 17:37 GMT

Just wondered. Can't be bothered to try the hl websites.

Happy Christmas one and all.

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Regards from The Pizza Man -UK-

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Ben Cottrell - 21 Dec 2003 21:47 GMT

Well, If you go to 3 different games shops they will give you 3
different dates.. which basically means valve haven't set one yet!

> Just wondered. Can't be bothered to try the hl websites.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> [To reply by email remove ".trousers" spamtrap from email address]

--
Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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ControlMode - 21 Dec 2003 22:16 GMT

Actually the latest word from Valve was that they were still on schedule for
a holiday release, of course they didn't say what holiday or what year.
Personally I think we will be very lucky if HL2 turns out to be a 2004
title, I don't think it will.

I was at buddy of mines house the other day and he showed me the source
code. It struck me as rather odd that it appears to be VERY old (in dev
terms) code. I wonder why Valve had that old code on their system and why
the hacker didn't steal newer code, or is it that perhaps Valve wasn't as
far along in the process as they originally said. If you remember from the
original HL, they were over a year late on that one too. Do I think Valve
leaked this, at this point it is very hard to say, but after seeing the
source code, it would not shock me. I mean face it, Valve appears to have a
ton of different things ridding on this release, i.e ATI contracts, if they
really are that far behind, they could be in serious legal trouble with
those contracts, what better way to get around that then have someone
'steal' and release their source code, gives them the perfect out , doesn't
it. Of course this is pure speculation, but from what I saw, something is
not right about HL2, when you combine this with Valves utter silence since
this happened, including but not limited to, their failure to clarify the
GROSS release date, i.e 2003 or 2004, it kinda makes you wonder.

> Well, If you go to 3 different games shops they will give you 3
> different dates.. which basically means valve haven't set one yet!
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
> Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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Peter Lykkegaard - 21 Dec 2003 22:32 GMT

> Do I think Valve leaked this, at this point it is very hard
> to say, but after seeing the source code, it would not
> shock me

Well if they did....
Keep your speculations to the stockmarket where it'll make sense
Besides a few other companies are working with the source for games of their
own (source licensed from Valve)
And progress on these games is good
On the other hand a new Hammer (beta version) has been released to the
public quite a while ago
Afaik development on this beta version has been halted until further notice
I think the issue has caused more problems for Valve than you ever can
imagine

- Peter

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ControlMode - 21 Dec 2003 22:57 GMT

Wow, nice of you to TELL me how to think, what to say....Not sure, perhaps I
missed it, but who died and left you in charge <-- rhetorical
question.

So, what close affiliation with these games gives you the inside
information. If these people licenced the code from Valve, does it mean they
can't move forward, as they would have to re-write significant portions of
their code as well.

Do you have a link to this new Hammer version: BTW, what exactly does Hammer
have to do with leaked source code.

AFAIK, dev of the beta version: And how exactly do you know that, I assume
you have that 'friend' in the business telling you this stuff right

> > Do I think Valve leaked this, at this point it is very hard
> > to say, but after seeing the source code, it would not
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> - Peter

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Peter Lykkegaard - 21 Dec 2003 23:13 GMT

> Wow, nice of you to TELL me how to think, what to say....Not sure,
> perhaps I missed it, but who died and left you in charge <--
> rhetorical question.

Are just being an a.shole or something?
Accusing Valve of leaking the sourcecode on purpose...
Do you know what would happen to a company if they did a stunt like you have
described
Suicide would be mercyfull in comparison to say the least

> So, what close affiliation with these games gives you the inside
> information. If these people licenced the code from Valve, does it
> mean they can't move forward, as they would have to re-write
> significant portions of their code as well.

As I wrote they are not stopping the development/progress
Take a look around on the internet, eventually you might find the info you
need

> Do you have a link to this new Hammer version: BTW, what exactly does
> Hammer have to do with leaked source code.

All and nothing
Valve is responsible for Hammer and Hammer is the tool to do maps in
No Hammer no HL2 mods, very simple actually

> AFAIK, dev of the beta version: And how exactly do you know that, I
> assume you have that 'friend' in the business telling you this stuff
> right

No progress has been done on the beta version since the incidence
Take a look around on the internet, eventually you might find the info you
need
Or you can do your self a favour and read some of the old posts in AGHL

Oh btw don't push your luck

- Peter

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ControlMode - 22 Dec 2003 02:44 GMT

> > Wow, nice of you to TELL me how to think, what to say....Not sure,
> > perhaps I missed it, but who died and left you in charge <--
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> described
> Suicide would be mercyfull in comparison to say the least

Yes, I am being an a.shole, I usually end up like that when someone tries to
TELL ME HOW TO THINK.

Please post a URL where I assused Valve of doing that...I suggested that it
is possible, and if it turned out to be true, it would not surprise me, far
different that what you said.

I know exactly what would happen IF (BIG HUGE IF) they got caught, I also
know what would happen if they were to delay a year or more when they have
contracts with ATI and fail to fulfill their obligations.

> > So, what close affiliation with these games gives you the inside
> > information. If these people licenced the code from Valve, does it
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Take a look around on the internet, eventually you might find the info you
> need

If they are not stopping dev on those titles, the question is, WHY NOT.
After all, it theory Valve is rewriting huge amounts of code to prevent
problems with the stolen code, this could greatly effect those titles as
well.

> > Do you have a link to this new Hammer version: BTW, what exactly does
> > Hammer have to do with leaked source code.
>
> All and nothing
> Valve is responsible for Hammer and Hammer is the tool to do maps in
> No Hammer no HL2 mods, very simple actually

The tool and the stolen code are not necessarily linked.

> > AFAIK, dev of the beta version: And how exactly do you know that, I
> > assume you have that 'friend' in the business telling you this stuff
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> - Peter

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Peter Lykkegaard - 22 Dec 2003 06:15 GMT

> Yes, I am being an a.shole, I usually end up like that when someone
> tries to TELL ME HOW TO THINK.

Your capslock got stuck
I wrote that speculations iznogood - that's all

- Peter

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Peter Lykkegaard - 22 Dec 2003 07:06 GMT

"ControlMode" <mcode@check.six.com> wrote in a message

> Please post a URL where I assused Valve of doing that...I suggested that it
> is possible, and if it turned out to be true, it would not surprise me, far
> different that what you said.

I don't know - a few facts is voting against your speculations
Licensed code from other companies is involved
FBI is called to investigate the theft

> I know exactly what would happen IF (BIG HUGE IF) they got caught, I also
> know what would happen if they were to delay a year or more when they have
> contracts with ATI and fail to fulfill their obligations.

If they got caught lying to the community, to FBI, leaking licensed code etc
Valve is done
Although both ATI and NVidia has "lied" to the public and has gotten away
with it

If Valve has a problem with ATI, well that's a problem wich can be solved,
not easily though
No need to risk your company on that account - imho

> > > > So, what close affiliation with these games gives you the inside
> > > information. If these people licenced the code from Valve, does it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> If they are not stopping dev on those titles, the question is, WHY NOT.

No need to rewrite the graphical engine is there?

> After all, it theory Valve is rewriting huge amounts of code to prevent
> problems with the stolen code, this could greatly effect those titles as
> well.

Correct

> > > Do you have a link to this new Hammer version: BTW, what exactly does
> > > Hammer have to do with leaked source code.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> The tool and the stolen code are not necessarily linked.

Correct - but stopping further development on Hammer would make sense, if
Valve has to reinvent the wheel
And if we have to speculate - one could argue that problems with steam is
causing the delay

- Peter

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Ben Cottrell - 21 Dec 2003 23:47 GMT

> I was at buddy of mines house the other day and he showed me the source
> code. It struck me as rather odd that it appears to be VERY old (in dev
> terms) code. I wonder why Valve had that old code on their system

The code and content was for the E3 footage, perhaps they put it there
so that they could compile the videos and distribute them?

> and why the hacker didn't steal newer code

Maybe the hacker wasn't able to steal the newer code... It doesn't seem
far fetched that valve might have a more secure network which is not
accessable from the internet, where they do all their project
development.

> or is it that perhaps Valve wasn't as
> far along in the process as they originally said. If you remember from the
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> this happened, including but not limited to, their failure to clarify the
> GROSS release date, i.e 2003 or 2004, it kinda makes you wonder.

I'm not exactly a busienss entrepeneur.. But it seems strange to me to
make such a big fuss out of something to your target audience which you
know isn't going to happen... Especially after holding absolute silence
for 5 years - there was nothing to stop them holding silence for longer,
because noone even knew the game existed except as a sort of 'myth' -
Valve's approach to advertising seems simple - they deliberately didn't
announce the game until they were sure it was close enough to finished
that they could deliver it on time... Unfortunately they're now in the
position where unforseen events have changed everything, and the game
has taken a backwards step. it shouldn't really come as any surprise
that they've gone quiet again - They know that even the most
insignificant bit of information that they release now could come back
in the future and bite them in the bum.

you can of course come up with all the daft conspiracy theories you like
to prove that valve was lying to us, or that the government wanted to
stop the release of HL2, or that Gabe Newell was abducted by aliens, etc
etc... But the official story doesn't seem all that implausable to me.

--
Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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ControlMode - 22 Dec 2003 02:45 GMT

I agree, it doesn't seem implausable, but guess what, neither does the other
one.

> > I was at buddy of mines house the other day and he showed me the source
> > code. It struck me as rather odd that it appears to be VERY old (in dev
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
> and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
> Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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Peter Lykkegaard - 22 Dec 2003 07:10 GMT

"ControlMode" wrote in a message

> ...the official story doesn't seem all that implausable to me.

No matter how many speculations and theories one can put together...
Noone knows the whole truth, and noone ever will

- Peter

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Ben Cottrell - 23 Dec 2003 00:19 GMT

> I agree, it doesn't seem implausable, but guess what, neither does the other
> one.

All things considered, I would say that all these conspiracy theories
are highly unlikely. The accusation of valve releasing their sourcecode
is quite absurd, since their source code contains code which is licensed
to them, and the release of that licenced code, whether purposely or
through negligence (IE - claiming that it was through theft does not get
them off the hook), could land them in a lawsuit with their licensee's -
Most notably, for the Havok physics engine and various bits & pieces
from ID Software which are present in the Source engine.

Aswell as this, the release of the sourcecode gives them a load of extra
work that they wouldnt have had to do otherwise (To ensure that the
final release isn't immediately swamped by cheats, or more importantly,
that it doesn't put gamers at risk of attack from
hackers/trojans/worms/etc that exploit holes in the sourcecode), and
could jeapordise future deals with other gamedev companies who may have
planned on licensing the source engine. The only tradeoff - supposedly
an excuse to delay the game... Not that they even need one, being that
they're an independent developer (So there's no publishers or outside
influences that they need to please) - and they don't really need to
make excuses for their target audience either. Overall, It doesn't
take a rocket scientist to realise that this is a very unlikely
scenario.

--
Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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Strider - 23 Dec 2003 09:43 GMT

Ben Cottrell proclaimed...

> All things considered, I would say that all these conspiracy theories
> are highly unlikely.

Well, I must say that's really untypical of a conspiracy theory...

Why do you waste your time dude? :)

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Site - www.stri.tk

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Ben Cottrell - 24 Dec 2003 01:41 GMT

> > All things considered, I would say that all these conspiracy theories
> > are highly unlikely.
>
> Well, I must say that's really untypical of a conspiracy theory...
>
> Why do you waste your time dude? :)

What and miss another opportunity of turning a 1-line post into a
20-pager?? naah ;)

--
Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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Strider - 24 Dec 2003 01:56 GMT

Ben Cottrell proclaimed...

> What and miss another opportunity of turning a 1-line post into a
> 20-pager?? naah ;)

Careful, you'll run out of ink. Or steam.

<insert pun here>

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Ben Cottrell - 24 Dec 2003 19:18 GMT

> Ben Cottrell proclaimed...
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> <insert pun here>

I think you already inserted the pun.

--
Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
Nintendo, Inc, 1989

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Strider - 24 Dec 2003 23:03 GMT

Ben Cottrell proclaimed...

> I think you already inserted the pun.

No!?

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Mike Barnard - 22 Dec 2003 08:51 GMT

Thanks for the info guys, but it ain't worth fighting over!

Happy Christmas to one and all.

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Regards from The Pizza Man -UK-

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Peter Lykkegaard - 22 Dec 2003 08:56 GMT

"Mike Barnard" wrote in a message

> Thanks for the info guys, but it ain't worth fighting over!

LOL - who's fighting

> Happy Christmas to one and all.

Yeahh, Merry Christmas :-)

- Peter

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Interesting Ian - 22 Dec 2003 14:01 GMT

> Just wondered. Can't be bothered to try the hl websites.
>
> Happy Christmas one and all.

Gamezvilles said 24th February yesterday

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ErmYouKnow - 25 Dec 2003 20:44 GMT

Pah, Gamezville, says it all.

> > Just wondered. Can't be bothered to try the hl websites.
> >
> > Happy Christmas one and all.
>
> Gamezvilles said 24th February yesterday

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Len - 26 Dec 2003 14:37 GMT

Here's another rumour about the Canadian release date: Amazon.ca's
order page had been saying that HL2 would be shipped on Dec. 25th; but
yesterday I got an email from them telling me the game had been
delayed for 1-2 weeks. Wonder what their souce is....

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Frode - 28 Dec 2003 18:22 GMT

>Here's another rumour about the Canadian release date: Amazon.ca's
>order page had been saying that HL2 would be shipped on Dec. 25th; but
>yesterday I got an email from them telling me the game had been
>delayed for 1-2 weeks. Wonder what their souce is....

Whatever they are they are likely about as reliable as fever fantasies.

- --
Frode

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