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Game Forum / Action Games / Half Life / April 2008

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A last question about the end

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David Simmons - 24 Feb 2008 02:26 GMT
I'm near the end of "Follow Freeman Part Two" and I'm really not
enjoying it at all.  If I wanted to play "Call of Duty" or some other
total shitstorm game, I'd go out and buy it.

Is it just going to be Omaha Beach for the rest of the game?

I know I've kvetched about this before, so please forgive me, but I
just don't get the appeal of being constantly besieged in these
scenarios.  I especially don't like what seems to be the necessity of
having to die repeatedly in order to figure out how to advance.  What
I want is to be able to intuit what strategy will work in advance, so
I don't have to take so much lead when I test my theory.

I don't want to rant too much, but I really don't care for the combat-
oriented portions of this game.  They get repetitive very quickly, and
the stress of the environment is not relaxing.

Yes, I know it's an FPS, but IMHO, the original game managed to strike
a much better balance in this regard.

Here's hoping the end is worth all the punishment inflicted so far!

Dave S.
Carl - 24 Feb 2008 07:48 GMT
Well, it does kinda build to a crescendo, as you are nearing the end of the
game, so combat intensifies. You aren't going to like episode 1 if you are
annoyed with HL2!
David Simmons - 24 Feb 2008 17:12 GMT
> Well, it does kinda build to a crescendo, as you are nearing the end of the
> game, so combat intensifies. You aren't going to like episode 1 if you are
> annoyed with HL2!

Drat.  I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff.  The
environment progression in HL1 was great.  First you have the
creatures in a human environment, and then you're the trespasser in
their environment.  The fact that HL2 takes place almost solely on
Earth is somewhat of a letdown for me as I loved the complete change
in the visual landscape and some of the physical rules.

Also, fighting human AI is just not as intriguing and interesting to
me.  SO many other games exist where you can do this.  I was hoping
that HL2 would improve on the great array of creatures and behaviors
from the first game such as the sound-sensitive tentacles and being
able to use alien weapons.

It just doesn't feel to me like HL2 is much of a sequel as it bears so
little resemblance to the original in these ways.  It's a great game,
but not great in the ways that I liked about HL1.

Dave S.
Ben Cottrell - 24 Feb 2008 17:43 GMT
> Drat.  I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff.  The
> environment progression in HL1 was great.  First you have the
> creatures in a human environment, and then you're the trespasser in
> their environment.  The fact that HL2 takes place almost solely on
> Earth is somewhat of a letdown for me as I loved the complete change
> in the visual landscape and some of the physical rules.

AFAIK, Valve got a huge amount of negative feedback about the boring and
tedious jumping puzzles from Xen that they left it out of HL2
completely.   Xen was my least favourite area in HL1 (it was far too
easy to die just by mis-timing a simple jump IMHO), so i'm kinda glad
they didn't add it into HL2, but I see where you're coming from about
the landscape, and a low-grav zone might have been interesting with the
new physics engine.

Signature

Ben Cottrell

"Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out"

Legion@Invalid.com - 24 Feb 2008 19:40 GMT
>> Drat.  I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff.  The
>> environment progression in HL1 was great.  First you have the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>the landscape, and a low-grav zone might have been interesting with the
>new physics engine.

Yeah, the Zen part of the game sucked for me and whenever i replayed
HL1 I used "God Mode" for that part just to get through it quickly<g>.

Legion
David Simmons - 25 Feb 2008 02:31 GMT
> > Drat.  I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff.  The
> > environment progression in HL1 was great.  First you have the
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> "Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out"

Yeah, I busted out God mode when I played through in Xen at least at
the level with all the rotating platforms and the flying beast that
you had to jump onto in order to get to the small platform with the
transporter.

A low-grav zone in an alien world would be really cool!  We could all
pretend we're on the Moon!  Except there's aliens!  And the gravity
gun is only half-strength because of the Moon!

Dave S.
Civilian_Target - 25 Feb 2008 22:44 GMT
> Drat.  I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff.  The
> environment progression in HL1 was great.  First you have the
> creatures in a human environment, and then you're the trespasser in
> their environment.  

I think you're in a minority there. I loved the earth levels, especially
towards the end. They were tight, winding and full of suspense. You
never knew what would jump at you, and putting monsters and humans in
the same environment and having them fight each other was excellent.

The alien world was poor. Ammo was scarce, the novelty of low grav wore
off fast, and the puzzles were unintuitive. Gonarch was cool, but I'd
pass on most of the rest of it.

For me, HL2 ended the right way, and Ravenholm is your short visit to
the alien world...

Civilian_Target
Peter [AGHL] - 25 Feb 2008 23:27 GMT
"Civilian_Target" wrote

> ... and Ravenholm is your short visit to the alien world...

Including jumping puzzlezz and all :)

- Peter
G Hardy - 25 Feb 2008 23:36 GMT
"Civilian_Target" wrote...

>> Drat.  I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff.  etc

> I think you're in a minority there. I loved the earth levels, especially
> towards the end...

I agree it's a minority opinion - to a point.

I think The Citadel is the HL2 equivalent of Zen, representing a major
change in environment and weaponry. I think the huge gulf between the two
games (Lab complex and alien dimension vs "post apocalypse" cityscape and
Citadel/Ravenholme) makes HL2 such a new experience that it counts as a new
game in its own right, not just a sequel.

I do think that if David is getting disillusioned with the best parts of the
game, he's going to be really upset by the actual "ending".

(Those quotes are intentional.)
David Simmons - 26 Feb 2008 06:24 GMT
> "Civilian_Target" wrote...
> >> Drat.  I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff.  etc
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> (Those quotes are intentional.)

Hmmm, thanks for the warning!  I know I'm going to play through the
game again before I cement my opinion.  If the ending is a non-ending
then here's hoping if there is a HL3, that they can blend the best
elements of the first two games together!

Dave S.
G Hardy - 26 Feb 2008 09:50 GMT
"David Simmons" wrote...

>> I do think that if David is getting disillusioned with the best parts of
>> the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> then here's hoping if there is a HL3, that they can blend the best
> elements of the first two games together!

I think that a lot of the blame for the poor ending to HL2 has to fall on
the knobhead who thought it would be cool to steal and distribute the source
code.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_2#Source_code_leak

The release date was pushed back, and a lot of the "finishing off" had to be
sacrificed for a complete rewrite of the online gaming component which would
otherwise have been subject to easier hacking.
Ben Cottrell - 26 Feb 2008 10:05 GMT
> I think that a lot of the blame for the poor ending to HL2 has to fall
> on the knobhead who thought it would be cool to steal and distribute the
> source code.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_2#Source_code_leak

"At the trial in November 2006 in Germany, it was determined that Gembe
did not leak the source code but that his negligent actions led to a
parallel intrusion by members of the myg0t organization which released
the code on BitTorrent afterwards."

Heh, why doesn't that surprise me?   I lost track of the number of times
I kicked and banned players with the [myg0t] tag from the AGHL CS server
on Demon :)

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Ben Cottrell

"Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out"

Robotech_Master - 14 Apr 2008 19:39 GMT
>  I think that a lot of the blame for the poor ending to HL2 has to
>  fall on the knobhead who thought it would be cool to steal and
>  distribute the source code.

I don't know that you could say it's necessarily a poor ending. It has
certain similarities to the ending of Half-Life 1, and it sets things
up for Episode 1 & 2. In fact, if you move right on to Episode 1, it's
hardly an "ending" at all.

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G Hardy - 14 Apr 2008 22:54 GMT
>>  I think that a lot of the blame for the poor ending to HL2 has to
>>  fall on the knobhead who thought it would be cool to steal and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> up for Episode 1 & 2. In fact, if you move right on to Episode 1, it's
> hardly an "ending" at all.

Possibly. I remember feeling, at the time, that it was a big anticlimax. The
first time I played it through I was surprised that it ended when it did. It
may just be that I thought the "end boss" would be difficult to defeat.
Breen didn't fire back.

If you think about it, Breen's presence throughout HL2 _should_ mean that
the ending, the culmination of Gordon's journey, was predictable. Certainly
more so than in HL1, where you have to take out a big floral headed mekon
that you don't get any reasonable warning about or any idea where he fits
into the scheme of things. At least Nihilanth was hard to kill, and had some
concept of self-preservation.

The run-on from HL2 to episode 1 only reinforces the idea that HL2 was
truncated, as does the short gameplay of Ep1. Note that I haven't played
Ep1, so its duration and the continuity from HL2 are unknown to me - it's
just what I've read in here. I reckon that if Ep1 culminates in a
confrontation with the big slug thing that you see during the teleport
sequence at the start of HL2, then that would pretty much convince me.
Robotech_Master - 15 Apr 2008 02:42 GMT
>  The run-on from HL2 to episode 1 only reinforces the idea that HL2
>  was truncated, as does the short gameplay of Ep1. Note that I
>  haven't played Ep1, so its duration and the continuity from HL2 are
>  unknown to me - it's just what I've read in here.

Then how do you know the gameplay was so "short"? Play it, it's not
bad at all. Get the Orange Box, it's well worth the money, especially
now that it's had a chance to come down a little.

It is worth noting that there was content cut from HL2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_cut_from_Half-Life_2

But I don't get a sense that it was due to the sourcecode leak. More
that it was due to storyline or gameplay issues, or deciding to move
the sequences to later "episode" games. They've historically not been
afraid to make changes, even in sections of the game already shown to
the public (the "Alyx cliffhanger" bit in the preview trailer shown at
the end of Episode 1 is gone from Episode 2 because they found a way
to make the story work better without it).

>  I reckon that if Ep1 culminates in a confrontation with the big
>  slug thing that you see during the teleport sequence at the start
>  of HL2, then that would pretty much convince me.

I won't spoil the endings more than to say this: both Ep 1 and Ep 2 do
have more traditional "boss battles." Well, 1 does, anyway. 2's is
someone longer than most traditional boss battles.

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G Hardy - 15 Apr 2008 10:07 GMT
"Robotech_Master" wrote...

>>  ...its duration and the continuity from HL2 are
>>  unknown to me - it's just what I've read in here.
>
> Then how do you know the gameplay was so "short"?

As above
David Simmons - 26 Feb 2008 06:22 GMT
> > Drat.  I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff.  The
> > environment progression in HL1 was great.  First you have the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> never knew what would jump at you, and putting monsters and humans in
> the same environment and having them fight each other was excellent.

Indeed, I loved this aspect as well.  That's why I wish there was more
of it in HL2.

> The alien world was poor. Ammo was scarce, the novelty of low grav wore
> off fast, and the puzzles were unintuitive. Gonarch was cool, but I'd
> pass on most of the rest of it.

Totally agree again.  I didn't like Xen at all as a playable
environment because I also loathe jumping puzzles.  However, I liked
that they bothered to create the world where the creatures come from.

> For me, HL2 ended the right way, and Ravenholm is your short visit to
> the alien world...

Hmmm, more like zombie world!

> Civilian_Target
riggor - 24 Feb 2008 23:46 GMT
> I'm near the end of "Follow Freeman Part Two" and I'm really not
> enjoying it at all.  If I wanted to play "Call of Duty" or some other
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Dave S

I agree with what you are saying.  The graphics in HL2 are stellar - but the
puzzles are not the same as in HL1.  HL1 had the right mix of problems and
shooting.  HL2 and the following episodes are beautiful to look at - and do
require some creativity and out of the box thinking ... but the bar was set
high after HL1.

I know some people will groan - but that's why I liked Myst. The problem
solving part of it.  They also over did it in the subsequent sequels - one
the bar was set - the puzzles started to become way too difficult / too time
consuming - to the point of boredom.
David Simmons - 25 Feb 2008 03:05 GMT
> I agree with what you are saying.  The graphics in HL2 are stellar - but the
> puzzles are not the same as in HL1.  HL1 had the right mix of problems and
> shooting.  HL2 and the following episodes are beautiful to look at - and do
> require some creativity and out of the box thinking ... but the bar was set
> high after HL1.

Indeed, it was!  As I've progressed through HL2, I've been struck by
the sense that this could easily be done by SO many other game
companies as far as realistic modern combat is concerned.  What I
loved so much about HL1 was the feeling that I was in a distinctively
non-military setting.  Of course, the military showed up later, but
the setting revealed to how out of place they were.

In HL2, the one thing that's really jumped out at me is the distinct
absence of aliens.  As I said before, one of the things that I loved
about HL1 was that you first encounter the aliens in your environment,
then in their own.  This adds to your understanding of their evolution
in a small way, and makes them seem less arbitrarily conceived.

For me, the best sequence in HL1 was the Blast Pit.  Solving that
scenario required patience and exploration, and yet it still offered a
few combat thrills.  However, not so much that you felt like you were
back playing DOOM.

> I know some people will groan - but that's why I liked Myst. The problem
> solving part of it.  They also over did it in the subsequent sequels - one
> the bar was set - the puzzles started to become way too difficult / too time
> consuming - to the point of boredom.

Myst never appealed to me as it was too much on the problem solving
side.  Also, the fact that the environment was a series of still
images, not one in which you could move around in real time.  I always
appreciated the game from afar, and my mom LOVED it.  However, I got
the strong impression that you really needed to keep a notebook if you
wanted move along at a pace other than glacial.  I like problem
solving, but I also want to MOVE!

HL1 took us to an entirely new place, filled with creatures and
characters we'd never seen before.  Much of HL2 could be set in many
countries around the world right now.  I guess that's why I'm not so
swept up in the world, as it seems too familiar (and somewhat
depressing).

One other thing:  I thought that it was kind of lazy in a programming
way to end up back at the beginning of the game after completing
Entanglements.  Maybe I'm just a miserable nitpicking bastard, but I
just felt like: "Wait, haven't I been here already?!"  When I saw the
video screen being torn down, I wondered to myself: "So all that other
stuff was just filler before the final assault?!"

I know, I know, go and make your own damned game, right?  Sorry to add
more static if peeps have already groused about this, but I just
didn't like this development.

BTW, is Dog gone to pet heaven or will I see him again?  He DEFINITELY
did not get a big enough role in this game!

Dave S.
Shawk - 25 Feb 2008 07:09 GMT
> BTW, is Dog gone to pet heaven or will I see him again?  He DEFINITELY
> did not get a big enough role in this game!

He'll be back...
 
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