Game Forum / Action Games / Half Life / April 2008
A last question about the end
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David Simmons - 24 Feb 2008 02:26 GMT I'm near the end of "Follow Freeman Part Two" and I'm really not enjoying it at all. If I wanted to play "Call of Duty" or some other total shitstorm game, I'd go out and buy it.
Is it just going to be Omaha Beach for the rest of the game?
I know I've kvetched about this before, so please forgive me, but I just don't get the appeal of being constantly besieged in these scenarios. I especially don't like what seems to be the necessity of having to die repeatedly in order to figure out how to advance. What I want is to be able to intuit what strategy will work in advance, so I don't have to take so much lead when I test my theory.
I don't want to rant too much, but I really don't care for the combat- oriented portions of this game. They get repetitive very quickly, and the stress of the environment is not relaxing.
Yes, I know it's an FPS, but IMHO, the original game managed to strike a much better balance in this regard.
Here's hoping the end is worth all the punishment inflicted so far!
Dave S.
Carl - 24 Feb 2008 07:48 GMT Well, it does kinda build to a crescendo, as you are nearing the end of the game, so combat intensifies. You aren't going to like episode 1 if you are annoyed with HL2!
David Simmons - 24 Feb 2008 17:12 GMT > Well, it does kinda build to a crescendo, as you are nearing the end of the > game, so combat intensifies. You aren't going to like episode 1 if you are > annoyed with HL2! Drat. I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff. The environment progression in HL1 was great. First you have the creatures in a human environment, and then you're the trespasser in their environment. The fact that HL2 takes place almost solely on Earth is somewhat of a letdown for me as I loved the complete change in the visual landscape and some of the physical rules.
Also, fighting human AI is just not as intriguing and interesting to me. SO many other games exist where you can do this. I was hoping that HL2 would improve on the great array of creatures and behaviors from the first game such as the sound-sensitive tentacles and being able to use alien weapons.
It just doesn't feel to me like HL2 is much of a sequel as it bears so little resemblance to the original in these ways. It's a great game, but not great in the ways that I liked about HL1.
Dave S.
Ben Cottrell - 24 Feb 2008 17:43 GMT > Drat. I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff. The > environment progression in HL1 was great. First you have the > creatures in a human environment, and then you're the trespasser in > their environment. The fact that HL2 takes place almost solely on > Earth is somewhat of a letdown for me as I loved the complete change > in the visual landscape and some of the physical rules. AFAIK, Valve got a huge amount of negative feedback about the boring and tedious jumping puzzles from Xen that they left it out of HL2 completely. Xen was my least favourite area in HL1 (it was far too easy to die just by mis-timing a simple jump IMHO), so i'm kinda glad they didn't add it into HL2, but I see where you're coming from about the landscape, and a low-grav zone might have been interesting with the new physics engine.
 Signature Ben Cottrell
"Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out"
Legion@Invalid.com - 24 Feb 2008 19:40 GMT >> Drat. I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff. The >> environment progression in HL1 was great. First you have the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >the landscape, and a low-grav zone might have been interesting with the >new physics engine. Yeah, the Zen part of the game sucked for me and whenever i replayed HL1 I used "God Mode" for that part just to get through it quickly<g>.
Legion
David Simmons - 25 Feb 2008 02:31 GMT > > Drat. I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff. The > > environment progression in HL1 was great. First you have the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > "Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out" Yeah, I busted out God mode when I played through in Xen at least at the level with all the rotating platforms and the flying beast that you had to jump onto in order to get to the small platform with the transporter.
A low-grav zone in an alien world would be really cool! We could all pretend we're on the Moon! Except there's aliens! And the gravity gun is only half-strength because of the Moon!
Dave S.
Civilian_Target - 25 Feb 2008 22:44 GMT > Drat. I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff. The > environment progression in HL1 was great. First you have the > creatures in a human environment, and then you're the trespasser in > their environment. I think you're in a minority there. I loved the earth levels, especially towards the end. They were tight, winding and full of suspense. You never knew what would jump at you, and putting monsters and humans in the same environment and having them fight each other was excellent.
The alien world was poor. Ammo was scarce, the novelty of low grav wore off fast, and the puzzles were unintuitive. Gonarch was cool, but I'd pass on most of the rest of it.
For me, HL2 ended the right way, and Ravenholm is your short visit to the alien world...
Civilian_Target
Peter [AGHL] - 25 Feb 2008 23:27 GMT "Civilian_Target" wrote
> ... and Ravenholm is your short visit to the alien world... Including jumping puzzlezz and all :)
- Peter
G Hardy - 25 Feb 2008 23:36 GMT "Civilian_Target" wrote...
>> Drat. I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff. etc
> I think you're in a minority there. I loved the earth levels, especially > towards the end... I agree it's a minority opinion - to a point.
I think The Citadel is the HL2 equivalent of Zen, representing a major change in environment and weaponry. I think the huge gulf between the two games (Lab complex and alien dimension vs "post apocalypse" cityscape and Citadel/Ravenholme) makes HL2 such a new experience that it counts as a new game in its own right, not just a sequel.
I do think that if David is getting disillusioned with the best parts of the game, he's going to be really upset by the actual "ending".
(Those quotes are intentional.)
David Simmons - 26 Feb 2008 06:24 GMT > "Civilian_Target" wrote... > >> Drat. I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff. etc [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > (Those quotes are intentional.) Hmmm, thanks for the warning! I know I'm going to play through the game again before I cement my opinion. If the ending is a non-ending then here's hoping if there is a HL3, that they can blend the best elements of the first two games together!
Dave S.
G Hardy - 26 Feb 2008 09:50 GMT "David Simmons" wrote...
>> I do think that if David is getting disillusioned with the best parts of >> the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > then here's hoping if there is a HL3, that they can blend the best > elements of the first two games together! I think that a lot of the blame for the poor ending to HL2 has to fall on the knobhead who thought it would be cool to steal and distribute the source code. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_2#Source_code_leak
The release date was pushed back, and a lot of the "finishing off" had to be sacrificed for a complete rewrite of the online gaming component which would otherwise have been subject to easier hacking.
Ben Cottrell - 26 Feb 2008 10:05 GMT > I think that a lot of the blame for the poor ending to HL2 has to fall > on the knobhead who thought it would be cool to steal and distribute the > source code. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_2#Source_code_leak "At the trial in November 2006 in Germany, it was determined that Gembe did not leak the source code but that his negligent actions led to a parallel intrusion by members of the myg0t organization which released the code on BitTorrent afterwards."
Heh, why doesn't that surprise me? I lost track of the number of times I kicked and banned players with the [myg0t] tag from the AGHL CS server on Demon :)
 Signature Ben Cottrell
"Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out"
Robotech_Master - 14 Apr 2008 19:39 GMT > I think that a lot of the blame for the poor ending to HL2 has to > fall on the knobhead who thought it would be cool to steal and > distribute the source code. I don't know that you could say it's necessarily a poor ending. It has certain similarities to the ending of Half-Life 1, and it sets things up for Episode 1 & 2. In fact, if you move right on to Episode 1, it's hardly an "ending" at all.
 Signature Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm robotech.master@gmail.com | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in robotech@eyrie.org | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!
G Hardy - 14 Apr 2008 22:54 GMT >> I think that a lot of the blame for the poor ending to HL2 has to >> fall on the knobhead who thought it would be cool to steal and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > up for Episode 1 & 2. In fact, if you move right on to Episode 1, it's > hardly an "ending" at all. Possibly. I remember feeling, at the time, that it was a big anticlimax. The first time I played it through I was surprised that it ended when it did. It may just be that I thought the "end boss" would be difficult to defeat. Breen didn't fire back.
If you think about it, Breen's presence throughout HL2 _should_ mean that the ending, the culmination of Gordon's journey, was predictable. Certainly more so than in HL1, where you have to take out a big floral headed mekon that you don't get any reasonable warning about or any idea where he fits into the scheme of things. At least Nihilanth was hard to kill, and had some concept of self-preservation.
The run-on from HL2 to episode 1 only reinforces the idea that HL2 was truncated, as does the short gameplay of Ep1. Note that I haven't played Ep1, so its duration and the continuity from HL2 are unknown to me - it's just what I've read in here. I reckon that if Ep1 culminates in a confrontation with the big slug thing that you see during the teleport sequence at the start of HL2, then that would pretty much convince me.
Robotech_Master - 15 Apr 2008 02:42 GMT > The run-on from HL2 to episode 1 only reinforces the idea that HL2 > was truncated, as does the short gameplay of Ep1. Note that I > haven't played Ep1, so its duration and the continuity from HL2 are > unknown to me - it's just what I've read in here. Then how do you know the gameplay was so "short"? Play it, it's not bad at all. Get the Orange Box, it's well worth the money, especially now that it's had a chance to come down a little.
It is worth noting that there was content cut from HL2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_cut_from_Half-Life_2
But I don't get a sense that it was due to the sourcecode leak. More that it was due to storyline or gameplay issues, or deciding to move the sequences to later "episode" games. They've historically not been afraid to make changes, even in sections of the game already shown to the public (the "Alyx cliffhanger" bit in the preview trailer shown at the end of Episode 1 is gone from Episode 2 because they found a way to make the story work better without it).
> I reckon that if Ep1 culminates in a confrontation with the big > slug thing that you see during the teleport sequence at the start > of HL2, then that would pretty much convince me. I won't spoil the endings more than to say this: both Ep 1 and Ep 2 do have more traditional "boss battles." Well, 1 does, anyway. 2's is someone longer than most traditional boss battles.
 Signature Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm robotech.master@gmail.com | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in robotech@eyrie.org | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!
G Hardy - 15 Apr 2008 10:07 GMT "Robotech_Master" wrote...
>> ...its duration and the continuity from HL2 are >> unknown to me - it's just what I've read in here. > > Then how do you know the gameplay was so "short"? As above
David Simmons - 26 Feb 2008 06:22 GMT > > Drat. I was hoping that there would be more alien stuff. The > > environment progression in HL1 was great. First you have the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > never knew what would jump at you, and putting monsters and humans in > the same environment and having them fight each other was excellent. Indeed, I loved this aspect as well. That's why I wish there was more of it in HL2.
> The alien world was poor. Ammo was scarce, the novelty of low grav wore > off fast, and the puzzles were unintuitive. Gonarch was cool, but I'd > pass on most of the rest of it. Totally agree again. I didn't like Xen at all as a playable environment because I also loathe jumping puzzles. However, I liked that they bothered to create the world where the creatures come from.
> For me, HL2 ended the right way, and Ravenholm is your short visit to > the alien world... Hmmm, more like zombie world!
> Civilian_Target riggor - 24 Feb 2008 23:46 GMT > I'm near the end of "Follow Freeman Part Two" and I'm really not > enjoying it at all. If I wanted to play "Call of Duty" or some other [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Dave S I agree with what you are saying. The graphics in HL2 are stellar - but the puzzles are not the same as in HL1. HL1 had the right mix of problems and shooting. HL2 and the following episodes are beautiful to look at - and do require some creativity and out of the box thinking ... but the bar was set high after HL1.
I know some people will groan - but that's why I liked Myst. The problem solving part of it. They also over did it in the subsequent sequels - one the bar was set - the puzzles started to become way too difficult / too time consuming - to the point of boredom.
David Simmons - 25 Feb 2008 03:05 GMT > I agree with what you are saying. The graphics in HL2 are stellar - but the > puzzles are not the same as in HL1. HL1 had the right mix of problems and > shooting. HL2 and the following episodes are beautiful to look at - and do > require some creativity and out of the box thinking ... but the bar was set > high after HL1. Indeed, it was! As I've progressed through HL2, I've been struck by the sense that this could easily be done by SO many other game companies as far as realistic modern combat is concerned. What I loved so much about HL1 was the feeling that I was in a distinctively non-military setting. Of course, the military showed up later, but the setting revealed to how out of place they were.
In HL2, the one thing that's really jumped out at me is the distinct absence of aliens. As I said before, one of the things that I loved about HL1 was that you first encounter the aliens in your environment, then in their own. This adds to your understanding of their evolution in a small way, and makes them seem less arbitrarily conceived.
For me, the best sequence in HL1 was the Blast Pit. Solving that scenario required patience and exploration, and yet it still offered a few combat thrills. However, not so much that you felt like you were back playing DOOM.
> I know some people will groan - but that's why I liked Myst. The problem > solving part of it. They also over did it in the subsequent sequels - one > the bar was set - the puzzles started to become way too difficult / too time > consuming - to the point of boredom. Myst never appealed to me as it was too much on the problem solving side. Also, the fact that the environment was a series of still images, not one in which you could move around in real time. I always appreciated the game from afar, and my mom LOVED it. However, I got the strong impression that you really needed to keep a notebook if you wanted move along at a pace other than glacial. I like problem solving, but I also want to MOVE!
HL1 took us to an entirely new place, filled with creatures and characters we'd never seen before. Much of HL2 could be set in many countries around the world right now. I guess that's why I'm not so swept up in the world, as it seems too familiar (and somewhat depressing).
One other thing: I thought that it was kind of lazy in a programming way to end up back at the beginning of the game after completing Entanglements. Maybe I'm just a miserable nitpicking bastard, but I just felt like: "Wait, haven't I been here already?!" When I saw the video screen being torn down, I wondered to myself: "So all that other stuff was just filler before the final assault?!"
I know, I know, go and make your own damned game, right? Sorry to add more static if peeps have already groused about this, but I just didn't like this development.
BTW, is Dog gone to pet heaven or will I see him again? He DEFINITELY did not get a big enough role in this game!
Dave S.
Shawk - 25 Feb 2008 07:09 GMT > BTW, is Dog gone to pet heaven or will I see him again? He DEFINITELY > did not get a big enough role in this game! He'll be back...
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