how to defeat bunny-hoppers ?

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Beladi Nasralla - 07 Aug 2007 11:47 GMT

I play HL2DM. Kids use the exploits of the game, sit the whole day
playing game, and develop "skillz". One of the "skillz" iz so-called
bunny-hopping. But it does not represent the real life ! Can you
imagine marines bunny-hopping in real life ? It is the precision of
shooting, skillful use of landscape, and guessing the psychology which
should count !

Unfortunately, I lose to the players with the "skillz". I would like
to find a way to defeat them, and teach 'em a thing or two about "real
life". I spend a lot of time in front of the computer playing HL2DM,
but probably not as much as those kids do. It occurs to me they are
"networked", and exchange the tips about the tricks and exploits in
their clan. I am not that young to join those "clans".

I tried to trawl the steampowered and the other forums for the tips,
but they aren't there. It looks like the gamers keep their secrets
close to their chest.

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Ben Cottrell - 07 Aug 2007 12:20 GMT

I wholeheartedly agree, but unfortunately there's a large user-base of
the half-life playing 'community' whose philosophy of playing the game
seems to be based on one-upmanship, all constantly on the lookout for
every minor engine exploit, cheat, hack, bug, modification, etc which
will give them an unskilled advantage over other players who just want
to play the game normally.

there's not much you can do about it, except for play on a server which
is moderated, and these kinds of people are kicked & banned.

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Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

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Lief - 07 Aug 2007 16:44 GMT

> I play HL2DM. Kids use the exploits of the game, sit the whole day
> playing game, and develop "skillz". One of the "skillz" iz so-called
> bunny-hopping. But it does not represent the real life ! Can you
> imagine marines bunny-hopping in real life ? It is the precision of
> shooting, skillful use of landscape, and guessing the psychology which
> should count !

Bunny hopping is not a bug imo.

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Peter [AGHL] - 07 Aug 2007 23:09 GMT

> Bunny hopping is not a bug imo.

If you examine the brainz of these players carefully you will find several
bugz - trust me on this one :)

- Peter

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Beladi Nasralla - 08 Aug 2007 09:44 GMT

> > Bunny hopping is not a bug imo.
>
> If you examine the brainz of these players carefully you will find several
> bugz - trust me on this one :)

Technically, bunny-hopping is not an exploit of a bug. It is just a
way of doing things. At least some people are doing something, and,
using your idiom, at least they have some bug in their head -- this is
better than having no bug in the head.

And guess what ? You study hard, you become an engineer. And those
"players" continue playing at uni, they party, they do not study hard.
When they graduate with their business or art degree, they become...
your managers.

Anyway, I discovered that bunny-hoppers, naturally, are absent in the
low-gravity maps ;-)

But maybe someone would share their tricks of how to defeat bunny-
hoppers in the normal-gravity servers... or explain to me why exactly
the bunny-hopping is effective at eluding hits... or at least point me
at the Internet resource.

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Ben Cottrell - 08 Aug 2007 13:02 GMT

> Technically, bunny-hopping is not an exploit of a bug. It is just a
> way of doing things.

I think if you knew how "bunny hoppers" actually did it, you would
change your mind on this pretty fast :-)
it exploits the various workings of different parts of the source
engine; movement, physics and clientside prediction code, to create a
situation where the usual mechanics of the game are momentarily
bypassed. its not just a simple combination of keypresses, a whole
bunch of things have to happen at once which 'create' the bug.

(its not hard to find out on google.. i'm pretty sure there are 100s of
pages which explain how and why it happens)

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Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

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Lief - 09 Aug 2007 04:47 GMT

> > Technically, bunny-hopping is not an exploit of a bug. It is just a
> > way of doing things.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> (its not hard to find out on google.. i'm pretty sure there are 100s of
> pages which explain how and why it happens)

Bunny hopping was removed in CS, if it was an exploint in DM, it would be
removed.

NB: You can bunny hop three times in CSS, still not an exploit....

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Beladi Nasralla - 09 Aug 2007 09:56 GMT

Thanks for your reply. I knew that HL2DM fudge with the rates (the
rate at which game is running, the rate at which it accepts data from
the server and the rate at which it sends data to the server). The
last time I did a comprehensive search on the topic of hacking the
game was around 2 years ago. At that time, hacking was about writing
scripts and using engine physics exploits such as wall-hacking. But it
appears that since that time the anti-cheat software was implemented
such that scripts were prohibited, so that the kiddies switched to
hacking the rate times and exploiting the engine physics... and it
appears that some servers (but not all ?) run the anti-cheat software
which prohibits from changing your rates (cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate,
and rate) too much from those set at the server.

I could not find the advices on how to change the rates so that to
achieve this or that effect on your gameplay. This appears to confirm
my suspiction: players do not talk about their findings; they keep
quiet so that to keep their advantage to themselves.

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Beladi Nasralla - 11 Aug 2007 17:04 GMT

> > > Technically, bunny-hopping is not an exploit of a bug. It is just a
> > > way of doing things.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> my suspiction: players do not talk about their findings; they keep
> quiet so that to keep their advantage to themselves.

I gave a further thought to it. Would not it be great to find such a
rate (for your own machine) so that it would make the job of the bunny-
hoppers with their twisted rates hard ?

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Mike Roman - 08 Aug 2007 09:50 GMT

>I play HL2DM. Kids use the exploits of the game, sit the whole day
> playing game, and develop "skillz". One of the "skillz" iz so-called
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> but they aren't there. It looks like the gamers keep their secrets
> close to their chest.

You could quite easily host your own server - I've managed to run a CS:S
server perfectly well on an old Compaq Armada e500 laptop - P3 1ghz and
384mb of RAM. Then you can have the distinct pleasure of abusing these
kiddies to your heart's content - and then banning them if you fancy.

It's long been the way though - bunny-hopping was banned on many of the old
Team Fortress Classic servers - admins would give them one warning and then
kick them. Medics and Scouts were the worst, bunny-hopping like crazy and
then conc-jumping. Feels pretty good to snipe one of these in mid-air
though - all that effort and then a nice, bloody "Pop!" ;o)

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Civilian_Target - 13 Aug 2007 22:53 GMT

> Unfortunately, I lose to the players with the "skillz". I would like
> to find a way to defeat them, and teach 'em a thing or two about "real
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> but they aren't there. It looks like the gamers keep their secrets
> close to their chest.

Honestly, bunny hoppers usually suck. Why? Because their mouse
sensitivity is too high :D

The best way to beat a bunny hopper is:
1. Don't be predictable, don't stand in the place where they expect you
2. Be pointing at your target before you fire
3. Don't stop moving. Use a combination of your body and mouse movements
to line up the shot.
4. Use the scene. If you're in a room with a weapon, health or ammo, the
other player may instinctively try and grab the goody. All you need to
do is line up the spot where his head will be when he goes to get it :D
And don't let him to the same to you!

You don't need to bunny hop to win!

Civilian_Target

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