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Whats an HEV suit, & nedding the 3 Save types via. dying

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bent - 07 Jan 2007 20:49 GMT
I'm in 1110 just going down the shaft as the troop carrying helicopter is
rope-dropping troops into it to kill me-people!

What is an HEV, why do I keep charging it, how is it depleting, what is it
doing, and can I activate anything in/on it to help me?

When I die, I may or may not quit the game.  Either way I may try F7 or
select Load Game from the menu.  I don't know what labels are given to the 3
save ways (auto, F6, and menu, Save Game), or what (type) of game is loaded
if I press F7, or select Load game from menu.  Really makes death a drag.
Anyone care to inform me.  I have no idea even what types of these 3 save
options are retained if I choose to quit.
G Hardy - 07 Jan 2007 21:39 GMT
> What is an HEV, why do I keep charging it, how is it depleting, what is it
> doing, and can I activate anything in/on it to help me?

Do the tutorial - listen to the dialogue & read the notes...
:o)
Dan C - 08 Jan 2007 03:47 GMT
> What is an HEV, why do I keep charging it, how is it depleting, what is it
> doing, and can I activate anything in/on it to help me?

You just keep getting dumber and dumber.

Who ties your shoelaces for you in the morning?

Signature

"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Lief - 08 Jan 2007 04:24 GMT
> > What is an HEV, why do I keep charging it, how is it depleting, what is it
> > doing, and can I activate anything in/on it to help me?
>
> You just keep getting dumber and dumber.
>
> Who ties your shoelaces for you in the morning?

Get a spellcheck, fucktard :)
The FreEk? - 08 Jan 2007 06:20 GMT
> > > What is an HEV, why do I keep charging it, how is it depleting, what is
> it
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Get a spellcheck, fucktard :)

Hey

Is it possible to kill-file on goggle groups? Been away a while and I
don't think my ISP has a news-server?

The FreEk?

PS This is for fucktard, not for Leif
bent - 08 Jan 2007 15:54 GMT
So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me deleting
the previous message, which I mostly do, unless I wnat a part.  I can't see
keeping it, even at the bottom.  Never tried the other (www: in part, or
whole) way, though I can log in and use via. www.  for complete access with
my provider/.  I don't know if you have "full access" like that, or i there
is little or lots of difference.  What do you think, I've just been told,
but I'm blind on what their talking about .
bent - 08 Jan 2007 15:55 GMT
OR should I say, you are not using a news reader!! One means the other, No?
David Firewater - 08 Jan 2007 16:02 GMT
> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of
> me deleting the previous message, which I mostly do, unless I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I've just been told, but I'm blind on what their talking about
> .

At times, the understanding of mine of yours isn't always good as
it can be
worse. Although I too am blind in one eye, but only sometimes, so
I kind
of understand.
-      -
David
davidfirewater(a)hotmail.com
Marcus Redd - 08 Jan 2007 16:57 GMT
>> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
>> deleting the previous message, which I mostly do, unless I wnat a part.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> worse. Although I too am blind in one eye, but only sometimes, so I kind
> of understand.

LOLzzz! It's can have been to that of also, it's isn't not eh? My think
you'm understan me of...
McG. - 09 Jan 2007 12:53 GMT
>>> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
>>> deleting the previous message, which I mostly do, unless I wnat a
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> LOLzzz! It's can have been to that of also, it's isn't not eh? My
> think you'm understan me of...

Absolute literary genius guys!   You've been listening to Stri too much
methinks ;)
McG.
Marcus Redd - 09 Jan 2007 15:07 GMT
>>>> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
>>>> deleting the previous message, which I mostly do, unless I wnat a part.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> methinks ;)
> McG.

You of thanks to be given. Or sunnink.

;o)
Ben Cottrell - 08 Jan 2007 16:39 GMT
> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me deleting
> the previous message,

If you delete a message, then you just remove it from your newsreader...
once you hit that "send" button, your message is there to stay.. and
with sites like google groups which archive 30+ years of usenet, its
gonna be there for a very, very long time ;)

Signature

Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

Marcus Redd - 08 Jan 2007 16:58 GMT
>> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
>> deleting the previous message,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> sites like google groups which archive 30+ years of usenet, its gonna be
> there for a very, very long time ;)

It's sort of vaguely possible to delete a post from the server by somehow
sending a cancel command or sunnink. Can't remember how.
Marcus Redd - 08 Jan 2007 17:04 GMT
>>> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
>>> deleting the previous message,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> It's sort of vaguely possible to delete a post from the server by somehow
> sending a cancel command or sunnink. Can't remember how.

http://www.itc.virginia.edu/newsgroups/outlookexpress.html#cancel

There, see, kewl, etc., blah, fade...
Marcus Redd - 08 Jan 2007 17:18 GMT
>>>> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
>>>> deleting the previous message,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> There, see, kewl, etc., blah, fade...

Did it cancel?
Ben Cottrell - 08 Jan 2007 20:38 GMT
>>>It's sort of vaguely possible to delete a post from the server by somehow
>>>sending a cancel command or sunnink. Can't remember how.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Did it cancel?

Yup - but cancel requests are frequently ignored by alot of
newsservers.. chances are its still out there somewhere :)

Signature

Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

Marcus Redd - 08 Jan 2007 21:58 GMT
>>>>It's sort of vaguely possible to delete a post from the server by
>>>>somehow sending a cancel command or sunnink. Can't remember how.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Yup - but cancel requests are frequently ignored by alot of newsservers..
> chances are its still out there somewhere :)

Ooooh... that's so embarassing.

;o)
Civilian_Target - 08 Jan 2007 18:14 GMT
>> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
>> deleting the previous message,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with sites like google groups which archive 30+ years of usenet, its
> gonna be there for a very, very long time ;)

Yep - along with that email to Sharon...

Civilian_Target
McG. - 09 Jan 2007 12:55 GMT
>>> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
>>> deleting the previous message,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Civilian_Target

LOLOL!   :o)
McG.
Civilian_Target - 09 Jan 2007 22:12 GMT
> "Civilian_Target" <tadhgp@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> Yep - along with that email to Sharon...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> LOLOL!   :o)
> McG.

Good, you old folk may be slow on the uptake but at least *someone* got
it :p

Civilian_Target
McG. - 10 Jan 2007 03:08 GMT
>> "Civilian_Target" <tadhgp@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>>> Yep - along with that email to Sharon...
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Civilian_Target

CF must not be in town right now ;)  Heh!
McG.
David Firewater - 10 Jan 2007 08:02 GMT
>> Good, you old folk may be slow on the uptake but at least
>> *someone* got it :p
>>
>> Civilian_Target
>
> CF must not be in town right now ;)  Heh!

He's been to see Dennis but he's back now.
-       -
David
davidfirewater(a)hotmail.com
McG. - 09 Jan 2007 12:52 GMT
> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me
> deleting the previous message, which I mostly do, unless I wnat a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> What do you think, I've just been told, but I'm blind on what their
> talking about .

If you snip the whole of what you're replying to, then you're just out
in limbo as far as everyone else is concerned.  That you DO snip stuff
is GOOD, that you top post your replies is shite.  :)

Yeah, there are plenty of folks here, old regulars too, that don't snip
AND top post.   Takes a while to get to one of those spots though.  Old.
Regulars.
McG.
Thad - 09 Jan 2007 13:10 GMT
> Yeah, there are plenty of folks here, old regulars too, that don't snip
> AND top post.   Takes a while to get to one of those spots though.  Old.
> Regulars.
> McG.

You forgot the 'heavily armed' part.

\\n/
Thad
McG. - 09 Jan 2007 14:59 GMT
>> Yeah, there are plenty of folks here, old regulars too, that don't
>> snip AND top post.   Takes a while to get to one of those spots
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> \\n/
> Thad

What, which?  The 4 on body holsters full, the arms locker in the van,
or the arms vault in the house, or the Crowbar on the servers??  LOL!
:o)
McG.
bent - 09 Jan 2007 17:55 GMT
What does top post mean?
Andy Hawkins - 09 Jan 2007 18:51 GMT
Apologies to all, but this is top posting. Replying to the article *above*
the text you've quoted.

It's daft if you ask me. Who reads from bottom to top? ???

Andy

> What does top post mean?
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
David Firewater - 09 Jan 2007 19:17 GMT
moc.liamtoh(a)retawerifdivad
-\o/-
.sdrawkcab daer neve I semitemoS .od I

> Apologies to all, but this is top posting. Replying to the
> article *above*
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>> Encryption =----
Thad - 09 Jan 2007 23:38 GMT
> moc.liamtoh(a)retawerifdivad
> -\o/-
> .sdrawkcab daer neve I semitemoS .od I

Klingon!

\\n/
Thad
Jethro - 10 Jan 2007 18:44 GMT
>> moc.liamtoh(a)retawerifdivad
>> -\o/-
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> \\n/
> Thad

Sorry Klingon is not a legitimate language.
/casting...

Signature

Jethro[AGHL] aka Phat_Pinger
Reply Email: jethro86 (at) gmail (dot) com

Paul Catley - 11 Jan 2007 18:55 GMT
> Sorry Klingon is not a legitimate language.
> /casting...

Good luck.  I think Ben laid some bait recently, and he didn't bite.  I don't
mind admitting I was shocked.

--
Paul
bent - 09 Jan 2007 04:08 GMT
FreEk

So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me deleting
the (the text of) previous message, which I mostly do, unless I wnat (want)
a part (of the text of the previous message).  I can't see
keeping it, even at the bottom (because thats a lot of text to re-read).
Never tried the other (www: in part, or
whole) way, though I can log in and use (it/newsgroups) via. www.  for
complete access with
my provider/ (newsfeeds.com).  (Some people state that one must quote the
text of the message before so people who use methods other than
newsreader/newsprovider don't get confused with the context of the present
message) I don't know if you have "full access" (if you can retrieve all of
the messages in a thread, sorted in order such as by date) like that, or if
there
is little or lots of difference (between using a newsreader/newsprovider and
not using a newsreader/newsprovider) .  What do you think (FreEk), I've just
been told (to include the text of the previous message),
but I'm blind on what their (they're) talking about (what the other way is)
.

Quickly, here come the grammar police. They're coming.  Can you hear them?
Its the voices.   They're telling me I'm bad.
Ben Cottrell - 10 Jan 2007 01:01 GMT
> So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me deleting
> the (the text of) previous message, which I mostly do, unless I wnat (want)
> a part (of the text of the previous message).

Ah, now I see what you mean by "deleting the message.."  .. well, its
not a life-or-death kinda thing (except for the netiquette nazi's), but
it helps people know what you're talking about, especially people who
haven't necessarily been following the whole thread.   some people will
ignore your messages if they can't see the context to which you're
replying, and you might get less replies.

Signature

Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

bent - 09 Jan 2007 04:10 GMT
FreEk

So you are not using a news provider, well what do you think of me deleting
the (the text of) previous message, which I mostly do, unless I wnat (want)
a part (of the text of the previous message).  I can't see
keeping it, even at the bottom (because thats a lot of text to re-read).
Never tried the other (www: in part, or
whole) way, though I can log in and use (it/newsgroups) via. www.  for
complete access with
my provider/ (newsfeeds.com).  (Some people state that one must quote the
text of the message before so people who use methods other than
newsreader/newsprovider don't get confused with the context of the present
message) I don't know if you have "full access" (if you can retrieve all of
the messages in a thread, sorted in order such as by date) like that, or if
there
is little or lots of difference (between using a newsreader/newsprovider and
not using a newsreader/newsprovider) .  What do you think (FreEk), I've just
been told (to include the text of the previous message),
but I'm blind on what their (they're) talking about (what the other way is)
.

Quickly, here come the grammar police. They're coming.  Can you hear them?
Its the voices.   They're telling me I'm bad.
Dan C - 09 Jan 2007 00:34 GMT
>> > What is an HEV, why do I keep charging it, how is it depleting, what
>> > is it doing, and can I activate anything in/on it to help me?

>> You just keep getting dumber and dumber.
>> Who ties your shoelaces for you in the morning?

> Get a spellcheck, fucktard :)

Why, dipshit?  There are no spelling errors in my words above.

Signature

"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Marcus Redd - 09 Jan 2007 10:37 GMT
>>> > What is an HEV, why do I keep charging it, how is it depleting, what
>>> > is it doing, and can I activate anything in/on it to help me?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Why, dipshit?  There are no spelling errors in my words above.

"Dumber" is not a word.

> "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

"Ubuntu" actually means "humanity towards others". But I'm sure you were
just being hilariously witty, weren't you?
Dan C - 09 Jan 2007 14:09 GMT
>>>> You just keep getting dumber and dumber.
>>>> Who ties your shoelaces for you in the morning?

>>> Get a spellcheck, fucktard :)

>> Why, dipshit?  There are no spelling errors in my words above.

> "Dumber" is not a word.

Sure it is.  Read here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dumber

Better stay in school, dimwit.

>> "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

> "Ubuntu" actually means "humanity towards others". But I'm sure you were
> just being hilariously witty, weren't you?

The humor is (way) above your head, Win-droid.

Signature

"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

Marcus Redd - 09 Jan 2007 15:06 GMT
>>>>> You just keep getting dumber and dumber.
>>>>> Who ties your shoelaces for you in the morning?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Better stay in school, dimwit.

Oh, sorry, I meant "dumber" isn't an ENGLISH word. Call me a snob if you
like, but I regard the Oxford English Dictionary as being the only reliable
authority on ENGLISH. American is a whole other ball game.

And if I'd gone to the school you went to I'd most likely be a gun-toting
obscenity-spouting all-round-generally-ignorant redneck just like you,
wouldn't I? And that wouldn't do at all.
Lief - 09 Jan 2007 22:53 GMT
> >>>>> You just keep getting dumber and dumber.
> >>>>> Who ties your shoelaces for you in the morning?
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> obscenity-spouting all-round-generally-ignorant redneck just like you,
> wouldn't I? And that wouldn't do at all.

Hmm I must of plonked the w.nker too soon :p
Jack Harney - 10 Jan 2007 00:50 GMT
Hurrumph.... I beg yer pardon Pilgrim!!!!!

>And if I'd gone to the school you went to I'd most likely be a gun-toting
>obscenity-spouting all-round-generally-ignorant redneck just like you,
>wouldn't I? And that wouldn't do at all.
bent - 09 Jan 2007 04:18 GMT
Maybe I'm dyslexic savant.  If I filter out everything others have to say,
I'll have everything I need to know.
Dan C - 09 Jan 2007 05:22 GMT
> Maybe I'm dyslexic savant.

Nope, you're just a common f.cking moron.

Signature

"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

McG. - 09 Jan 2007 13:00 GMT
>> Maybe I'm dyslexic savant.
>
> Nope, you're just a common f.cking moron.

sure looks like he/she/it is baiting the group.
McG.
Marcus Redd - 09 Jan 2007 15:06 GMT
>>> Maybe I'm dyslexic savant.
>>
>> Nope, you're just a common f.cking moron.
>
> sure looks like he/she/it is baiting the group.
> McG.

My guess is that he recently discovered his sister is actually his mother.
McG. - 09 Jan 2007 13:00 GMT
> Maybe I'm dyslexic savant.  If I filter out everything others have to
> say, I'll have everything I need to know.

and...

THAT would tell US  *everything*  WE need to know... about YOU!
*PLONK*!

:o)       *IF*

McG.
Paul Catley - 11 Jan 2007 00:58 GMT
> What is an HEV, why do I keep charging it, how is it depleting, what is it
> doing, and can I activate anything in/on it to help me?

As stated by someone else, the best explanation of the HEV suit is in the
tutorial (the Hazard Course).  Do that, and you'll know as much as we know.

> When I die, I may or may not quit the game.  Either way I may try F7 or select
> Load Game from the menu.  I don't know what labels are given to the 3 save
> ways (auto, F6, and menu, Save Game), or what (type) of game is loaded if I
> press F7, or select Load game from menu.  Really makes death a drag. Anyone
> care to inform me.  I have no idea even what types of these 3 save options are
> retained if I choose to quit.

There are three types of save in HL: autosaves, quicksaves, and full saves.

Autosaves are made by the game automatically every time you pass an autosave
point, usually where a new area of the map loads (which you might not notice any
more with modern CPU speeds, but there used to be a short pause and a
"Loading..." message). There are two autosave slots, which are continually
overwritten as you pass further autosave points.

Quicksaves are made by you, every time your press F6. Like autosaves, there are
only two quicksave slots. Every time you press F6, you are not creating an extra
save slot, you are overwriting the older of the two quicksave slots. Thus
quicksaves are not permanent and should only be considered as a sort of
"bookmark" of your current progress through the game. Some people do not seem to
be aware of this. You cannot revisit earlier parts of the game if you only use
quicksave.

Full saves are made by exiting to the menu and saving from there. If you want to
make a permanent save that won't be overwritten, enabling you to return to it at
any time, this is the one you want. I recommend you do this at least once every
chapter(1). Some people have got themselves stuck in positions they can't get
out of, quicksaved twice in their panic, and then found there is no way to go
back other than to start the game from scratch. Very annoying if you are a long
way into the game. It's rare but it happens, so MAKE FULL SAVES!

As for which save loads when you quickload with F7, I think it is your most
recent save, whether that's autosave, quicksave or full save (I might be wrong
about the full save). Thinking about it logically, it'll be this way because it
only has to load your situation within the current map, not go back to a
previous map with consequent lengthier loading time. The furthest you will ever
go back with F7 is therefore the last autosave, as any quicksave or full save
further back will be a different map. If you load from the menu, you can choose
any save you like.

The save system was slightly modified in HL2. It still has autosaves, quicksaves
and full saves, but you can also return to the start of any previous chapter.

(1) Chapters are the named areas of the game, such as "Anomalous Materials" or
"Unforeseen Consequences", aka levels, though Half-Life was the first game to
introduce a continuous playing style with no overt levels or lengthy loading
screens, just a relatively seamless pause as you traversed an empty corridor.

--
Paul
Ben Cottrell - 11 Jan 2007 01:47 GMT
> As for which save loads when you quickload with F7, I think it is your most
> recent save, whether that's autosave, quicksave or full save (I might be wrong
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> The save system was slightly modified in HL2. It still has autosaves, quicksaves
> and full saves, but you can also return to the start of any previous chapter.

Excellent post, Paul!   I expect he'll be back here later asking how to
get through Blast Pit.. ;)

Signature

Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

McG. - 11 Jan 2007 03:43 GMT
>> As for which save loads when you quickload with F7, I think it is
>> your most recent save, whether that's autosave, quicksave or full
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Excellent post, Paul!   I expect he'll be back here later asking how
> to get through Blast Pit.. ;)

Hear hear!
McG.
Thad - 11 Jan 2007 04:17 GMT
>> Excellent post, Paul!   I expect he'll be back here later asking how
>> to get through Blast Pit.. ;)

> Hear hear!
> McG.

How *do* you get through the Blast Pit?

\\n/
Thad
The FreEk? - 11 Jan 2007 06:27 GMT
> > McG.How *do* you get through the Blast Pit?
>
> \\n/
> Thad

Carefully me old mucker.. very carefully indeed

The FreEk?
McG. - 11 Jan 2007 12:31 GMT
>> > McG.How *do* you get through the Blast Pit?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> The FreEk?

Hey, I din't say dat!    But really... the Barney *will* die :(
McG.
Paul Catley - 11 Jan 2007 18:50 GMT
> How *do* you get through the Blast Pit?

Damned if I know.

--
Paul
Shawk - 11 Jan 2007 19:10 GMT
>> How *do* you get through the Blast Pit?
>
> Damned if I know.

...crowbar?
David Firewater - 12 Jan 2007 09:16 GMT
>>> How *do* you get through the Blast Pit?
>>
>> Damned if I know.
>
> ...crowbar?

I thought the game ended at Blast Pit. You mean there's more?
-     -
David
davidfirewater(a)hotmail.com
bent - 11 Jan 2007 05:49 GMT
Now I can actually play and do what I want seemlessly.  A load off my mind.
Thank You.  What do you know about Farcry?  Kidding!
Marcus Redd - 11 Jan 2007 09:28 GMT
> Now I can actually play and do what I want seemlessly.  A load off my
> mind. Thank You.  What do you know about Farcry?  Kidding!

Hehehe... you've been kidding this group all along, ain't you kiddo? Come
on, admit it now... ;o)
McG. - 11 Jan 2007 12:28 GMT
> Now I can actually play and do what I want seemlessly.  A load off my
> mind. Thank You.  What do you know about Farcry?  Kidding!

Run it in 64 bits on a 6800GTX or greater.  Google search for the
'devmode.lua' file.  It's actually installed WITH the game, but you need
to know what to do with it.

McG.
bent - 11 Jan 2007 17:31 GMT
when i finish it, I've got 1/3 to go w/o cheats, then i'll check it out
(again - I had symptoms the first time, so restarted w/o it).  The way I've
my 3.12GHz, 512MB ram, 5900XT@ 440/820 wrung out I can run it just
fine@1280x1024x32 full screen with High, some less important on Medium
settings, with absolutely no playing problems, control or screen lag.  It
takes a lot of cooling, and couldn't budge one way or the other, but its
fine!!  Just right for a super-overclockable, end of nv-35 chip series $300
card.  Runs similar to a 9800XT.  It is not neccesary to get better.  Not
neccesary yet, not at all necessary. I can and I DO with it, until I want to
spend $800, or do it all again for another $300, if I can find a similar
scenario.
bent - 11 Jan 2007 17:43 GMT
BTW, can you tell me?  If I can run Farcry can I run HL2?  I'm in HL1 now.
I've seen the specs for HL2 E1 so don't just ry to ferak me out.  Its really
amazing how dialed in/up my card, system and Farcry is.  The last increment
I had to go through was getting 1280x1024 to run.  AT that, evrything,
everyuthing has to be just.just what I have. Jump through a couple hoops,
boom, thanks MSI.  There are a lot of things to change, but I don't have
to!!!! 8p
McG. - 11 Jan 2007 22:28 GMT
> BTW, can you tell me?  If I can run Farcry can I run HL2?  I'm in HL1
> now.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> through a couple hoops, boom, thanks MSI.  There are a lot of things
> to change, but I don't have to!!!! 8p

Both Far Cry and HL2 will run on an FX5900 128 and a Radeon 9800 Pro
128.  You are simply going to keep the resolution a little lower and
turn off a couple of available eye candy tweaks.  About 1/4 of the
lighting and other visual effects won't be available to those cards at
all.   The effects simply were not implemented when those cards were
created.  They can use shader model 2.0 level effects.
HL2 developers did NOT include the FX GPU codepath in the final release.
The effects cannot be selected in HL2 options, they're grayed out
anytime an FX based GPU is detected by the game.  Even though the FX GPU
can do the effects and better looking than the ATi (the FX uses full 32
bit floating point precision, not 24 bit that ATi implemented).  The
codepath for FX was literally blocked by the Source engine developers as
it was much more difficult to implement both simultaneously.

Both cards you mention will handle ALL effects used by the original
Half-Life game and its mods.  Both cards will run HL and its mods very
well indeed.   However, the moment you load HL2.exe both cards will show
a huge performance hit.   You will likely find yourself running in
800x600 just to enjoy gameplay.   It was for HL2 that I upgraded from
FX5900/9800Pro to an eVGA 6800 128 meg.  And that still lagged.   I then
bought an eVGA 6800GT-256 meg card, and that worked rather well in
1280x960 or the LCD option of 1280x1024.  I still had to keep shadows to
a minimum for good framerates.  I was also using a P4 3.0E (800mHz fsb)
and 2 gigs dual channel PC3200.
McG.
Peter [AGHL] - 12 Jan 2007 13:19 GMT
McG. skrev:

> It was for HL2 that I upgraded from FX5900/9800Pro
> to an eVGA 6800 128 meg.  And that still lagged.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> a P4 3.0E (800mHz fsb) and 2 gigs dual channel
> PC3200.

Ever tried 3DMark05 in that rig?
I am in the process of upgrading the kidz PC's atm
Mem is still a little on the low side but I have now this config

MSI K8 NEO4-FI (SATAII)
AMD 64 4000+
MSI RX1950XT (256Mb)

Scores 9886 in 3DMark05

- Peter
bent - 12 Jan 2007 18:04 GMT
I've got 2001SE.  Is that worth anything to ya?  I'd be willing to compare
apples with anything.

With that test it helps to have everything cranked right, cpu, mem timings,
voltages, gpu core & mem clocks; everything, right.

> McG. skrev:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> - Peter
bent - 12 Jan 2007 18:10 GMT
ya can tell I don't know whats going on, just thought I'd get an opinion.  I
just realised this 2001 probably has nothing to do with anything, right?.
I'll get 2005, if its free, and come back soon.

"bent" <bent@rogers.com> wrote in message
> I've got 2001SE.  Is that worth anything to ya?  I'd be willing to compare
> apples with anything.
>
> With that test it helps to have everything cranked right, cpu, mem
> timings, voltages, gpu core & mem clocks; everything, right.
Ben Cottrell - 12 Jan 2007 22:13 GMT
> I've got 2001SE.  Is that worth anything to ya?  I'd be willing to compare
> apples with anything.

3DMark changes its scoring system every year - its meaningless to
compare 3DMark 2001 with 3DMark 2005... :)

Signature

Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

bent - 13 Jan 2007 00:14 GMT
I got and used 3DMark 2005

Its only with comparing to the latest and greatest, but I guess thats what
(we) want.  I have my 2.6C @ 20% OC, which is a drag, since the ram I bought
will do 40%.  I think I have the 2x256MB OCZ EL4200 Dual Channel Kit memory
timings tight.  I used the highest video core  mem clocks I could achieve
with RivaTuner in Farcry.  I didn't try mor ethan once.  My current video
settings are 1280x1024x32@85 refresh, but the test said 1024x768x32.  I am
not sure if things are as they seem.  Strangely for me, I am having trouble
at even 400 gpu core in HL1, using the RivaTuner hardware monitor graph.  It
keeps dropping back down to 375, or maybe lower at that time point in game
running.  Mem seems to stay fine at 800.  Stock is 390/700.  It doesn't need
any OC to work fine, though.  I am only using one of my Raptors 10K 37GB,
its not raided

The results are
1102 3DMark05
3944 CPUMarks

Heres my sig:

Asus P4C800E-D 2.6C@3.12 <oops> OCZ EL4200 512MB@DDR480 2.5-3-4-6 Zalman
CNPS-7000Cu, MCH, & Vantec Stealth Vantec Nexus NXP-305-BK fan & light
ctrlr. inverted blowhole panel Enermax EGP465P-VE S^2 FC^2 whisper LG
GSA-H10N
2x 36GB Raptors Viewsonic P95f+B MSI FX5900XT-VTD128 @465/825 SBLive5.1
Logitec / IBM USR 2976 Motorola Surfboard

> 3DMark changes its scoring system every year - its meaningless to compare
> 3DMark 2001 with 3DMark 2005... :)
bent - 13 Jan 2007 00:58 GMT
I began to state something, then got confused.  How does it come up with
these numbers.  It also tells you how many testers' cards are better and how
many testers' cards were worse.  Is it true that if more cards of the same
type that are better receive ratings then my cards ratings would change?  So
every time a new card comes on the markert and gets tested, the quantity of
those cards tested affects the results of my card?
McG. - 13 Jan 2007 01:40 GMT
>I began to state something, then got confused.  How does it come up
>with these numbers.  It also tells you how many testers' cards are
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>and gets tested, the quantity of those cards tested affects the results
>of my card?
No.   Only the numbers of tested units changes.   This can simply show
you where your system ranks against that number of similar rigs.
McG.
McG. - 13 Jan 2007 01:38 GMT
>I got and used 3DMark 2005
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> 2x 36GB Raptors Viewsonic P95f+B MSI FX5900XT-VTD128 @465/825
> SBLive5.1 Logitec / IBM USR 2976 Motorola Surfboard

with a P4 2.66 Northwood (533 fsb), 2 x 512meg DDR400 in dual channel,
Gigabyte GA8 IPE 1000G mobo, eVGA 6800-128 meg, 1 Maxtor SATAII 80g hd,
Enermax 480w psu, XP Pro SP2.
3DMark05 it gets 5898 3DMarks.  As opposed to my other X2 rig with 12089
3DMarks in the same benchmark.
McG.
McG. - 13 Jan 2007 01:32 GMT
>> I've got 2001SE.  Is that worth anything to ya?  I'd be willing to
>> compare apples with anything.
>
> 3DMark changes its scoring system every year - its meaningless to
> compare 3DMark 2001 with 3DMark 2005... :)

Or 3DMark 2005 with 2006 :-\

I score 12089 in 05, 9000 in 06.
McG.
McG. - 13 Jan 2007 01:30 GMT
> McG. skrev:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> - Peter

That ol rig of mine up there?  Man that's a junkbox   :o)

This is my baby :

AMD A64 X2 4800+
Gigabyte GA K8N SLI
2 gigs PC3200
2 7800GTX 256 meg SLI
2 Samsung 204B, 1 Samsung 930B (all 3 on DVI)
3 160gig ATA100 7200rpm (2 SG 1 WD)
XP Pro x64

3DMark05 3DMark score of 12089, stock clocks of course. The rig is SLI,
3DMark05 did NOT run the bench in SLI, but single display acceleration.
I didn't register 05, I did register 3DM06 Advanced.
McG.
McG. - 13 Jan 2007 01:48 GMT
> McG. skrev:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> - Peter

a.. GF 6800
a.. Radeon X1600 XT
a.. Radeon X800 GTO
a.. GF 7600 GS
a.. Radeon X800
a.. Radeon X800 Pro
a.. Radeon X850 Pro
a.. GF 6800 GS
a.. Radeon X800 XL
a.. GF 6800 GT
a.. GF 7600 GT
a.. GF 6800 Ultra
a.. Radeon X800 XT
a.. Radeon X850 XT
a.. GF 6800 Ultra Extreme
a.. GF 6800 GT SLI
a.. Radeon X1650 XT
a.. Radeon X1800 GTO
a.. Radeon X800 XT PE
a.. Radeon X850 XT PE
a.. Radeon X1800 XL
a.. GF 7800 GT
a.. GF 6800 GS SLI
a.. GF 7800 GTX
a.. GF 7900 GS
a.. Radeon X1800 XT
a.. Radeon X1650 XT CrossFire
a.. GF 7900 GT
a.. Radeon X1950 Pro
a.. GF 6800 Ultra SLI
a.. Radeon X850 XT CrossFire
a.. GF 7950 GT
a.. GF 7600 GT SLI
a.. Radeon X1800 XL CrossFire
a.. Radeon X1900 XT
a.. GF 7800 GTX 512MB
a.. Radeon X1900 XTX
a.. Radeon X1950 XTX
a.. GF 8800 GTS
a.. Radeon X1900 XT CrossFire
a.. GF 7900 GTX
a.. GF 7800 GT SLI
a.. Radeon X1950 Pro CrossFire
a.. Radeon X1800 XT CrossFire
a.. GF 7900 GS SLI
a.. GF 7900 GT SLI
a.. GF 7950 GX2
a.. GF 7800 GTX SLI
a.. GF 7950 GX2 SLI
a.. GF 7950 GT SLI
a.. GF 8800 GTX
a.. Radeon X1900 XTX CrossFire
a.. Radeon X1950 XTX CrossFire
a.. GF 7900 GTX SLI
a.. GF 7800 GTX 512MB SLI

This is a performance ranking of the cards with otherwise similar system
specs.  Bottom of the list is top rank, top is lowest ranked.
Technically speaking, your system as listed should be right up there
with mine.  Unless that 4000+ is single core, where mine is an X2 dual
core 4800+.  My 7800 GTX 256 meg was running in single display mode, not
in SLI for that test.  You should have scored higher than me?
McG.
Peter [AGHL] - 13 Jan 2007 09:09 GMT
> This is a performance ranking of the cards with otherwise similar
> system specs.

My card is brand new and not listed
MSI X1950XT 256Mb ( ~ 2300 DKK)

The X1950XTX cards comes with 512Mb mem and way beyond the XT card

> Technically speaking, your system as listed should be right up there
> with mine.  Unless that 4000+ is single core, where mine is an X2 dual
> core 4800+.

Single core (AMD 64 4000+)

> My 7800 GTX 256 meg was running in single display mode,
> not in SLI for that test.  You should have scored higher than me?

The X1950XT might run similar as one of your gfx card - depends on the game
though :)

Chart from Toms Hardware
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html

Please note the MSI board is socket 939 and is equipped with DDR socket not
DDR2
Currently only 512Mb is added - I will add more memory later

- Peter

Signature

Hi! I'm a .signature *virus*!
Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!

McG. - 13 Jan 2007 13:55 GMT
>> This is a performance ranking of the cards with otherwise similar
>> system specs.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> - Peter

My GA K8-N-SLI mobo is also a socket 939 and DDR, I have 2 x 1g Corsair
PC3200 (DDR400)  DIMMS in it.   My particular video cards are not listed
either.  Here is what I have 2 of:
http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=256-P2-N527-AX&family=22

The ACS3 cooling solution is really slick and cool looking.  But don't
kid yourself, the cards airflow is exactly backward to the normal
airflow through the case.  I have intake fans down low on the clear case
window and the other case fans are turned so ALL front/rear fans are
exhaust.  CPU at idle is 96F and reaches 138F during heavy game loading.
The vid cards can reach 170F even with good airflow straight to them.
They idle at 136F.   The upper vid card reached 197F before I
reconfigured the fans and airflow.   CPU has a Gigabyte heatsink and
120mm fan.

I have the registered 3DMark 2006 'Advanced', and running that bench
in1600x1200 with AA, FF and other goodies on returns a very nice CPU
mark but a pretty dismal overall score I think.  It's about 5890 most
runs.
I'm taking the X2 rig apart today and cleaning all the dust bunnies out,
when I get it together I'll run 3DMark2005 with it in SLI and see what
that returns.
McG.
bent - 13 Jan 2007 19:47 GMT
I gotta Q or 2 and u may be able to answer it.  This ram I assume is pretty
goodly:
http://www.pcvonline.com/productDetails.aspx?id=4731
It does 1150.
1150/2=575.
575/2=287.5
But the timings look poorly,  5-5-5-18

The ram I bought a couple years ago is (guaranteed) rated at DDR533.
533x2=1066
533/2=266.5
http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_el_ddr_pc_4200_dual_channel-eol

It can run DDR400at 2- timings, and is CL 2.5-4-4-7 operation at 2.8 volts,
at 266/533/1066.

Yet it still overclocks to the same 287.5/575/1150 as the first ram listed
at the top.  There are several reviews if you'd like.  It was about $300 for
512MB (2x256).  The timings I run now are, but I'm at.  The timings at rated
PC4200 are, and according to the reviews, the timings at 287.5/575/1150,
maxed out / stable, are "OCZ EL4200 is completely stable at 280FSB or
560MHz, and I was able to run the memory at CAS-2.5 under PAT's most
aggressive settings (Turbo) on the P4C800E-Deluxe at 280FSB under all
circumstances. This is apparent in the benchmarks."
- from the conclusion (last page) at madshrimps review at the bottom of the
page of the review links at the ocz page above.

Now I know I'd need a cpu capable of running 1150.  Are there any?  Is there
anything close.ie pushing up the standard to be able to do that?

Next, if my ram is running at better timings, at equal to the best
287.5/575/1150 numbers, are there other improvements I need to know about
with DDR2?  Is there something I am missing?  Like is DDR2 doing twice the
"work", which explains forgiving the timings?  Is it like PC4200 really is
PC8400, and for what?

I was aware, simply by reading the reviews, all of the reviews testing this
(my) ram used the same mobo and cpu (ASUS P4C800E-D & 2.4C) - I was an idiot
and bought a 2.6C cpu, cause I wasn't aware of the connection, and thought
the 2.4C was just the best at the time.  I was aware that in order to run at
287.5/575/1150 I could only use 2 mem slots (of the four) for some reason.
IS this still true?  IOW  if I got 2 more sticks of this (my) ram, are there
any new motherboards that can max out with all four (or more) slots, so I
can add 512MB or wish 1GB more, or more?
McG. - 14 Jan 2007 05:18 GMT
>I gotta Q or 2 and u may be able to answer it.  This ram I assume is
>pretty goodly:
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> that can max out with all four (or more) slots, so I can add 512MB or
> wish 1GB more, or more?

Matching your timings is critical.   With your ram, you might be
clocking it higher and raising the voltage, but you have to keep testing
for latency and error issues.   I'm not going to give any advice on
overclocking.  I'm no expert and I stopped playing around with that a
couple years back.  That just ain't my gig.   There is this:  no matter
what you are clocking your half a gig of ram, you still have just half a
gig of ram.   You want to play the games smoother and better looking
without so many pauses for swapping from the hd... put a couple gigs ram
in the box.  XP and the games will love it.
McG.
Lief - 15 Jan 2007 15:24 GMT
>    I'm not going to give any advice on
> overclocking.  I'm no expert and I stopped playing around with that a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> in the box.  XP and the games will love it.
> McG.

Overclocking anything is fairly pointless these days, it used to be worth it
when you could get a 20% perfomance boost, with no hassle, nowadays you'll
get a barely noticeable increase and may as well just buy better gear in the
first place.

The HDD is still the main bottleneck in PC's these days, raid0 can help
here, and as you say, increasing the ram to lessen swap file usage.
Signature

Lief

McG. - 16 Jan 2007 03:05 GMT
>>    I'm not going to give any advice on
>> overclocking.  I'm no expert and I stopped playing around with that a
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> help
> here, and as you say, increasing the ram to lessen swap file usage.
For real!    My X2 rig.  All I have to do to get some 20 to 30% more
performance is just drop it into SLI :o)))  Heh!   I finally reworked my
cooling solution.   120mm 2000 rpm fans exhausting front and rear, and
the 90mm PSU fan exhausts too.  A 90mm 800-2000 rpm CPU fan and the 7800
GTX fans deal with internal items.   In the case side, for fresh air
intake there are 1 80mm fan right over the CPU fan, two 80mm fans cover
the 7800 GTX's.  GPU Diode temps dropped 40 degrees F at idle, and at
full 3D game fullscreen SLI the temps stay 45 F lower than before.  For
the first time, my rig has to be closed up tight for good cooling
airflow.  IT WORKS!  LOL!
GPU Diode temps do not go over 151F.   Yeah, the top card would hit 198
F at times.  That wasn't any good at all.
Thing is, I can play HL2DM in 1600x1200 with max eye candy in NON SLI,
using single display acceleration, and still get average of 60's fr's.
Game is smooth as silk.
Nothing is OC'd at all.
McG.
Lief - 16 Jan 2007 15:20 GMT
> For real!    My X2 rig.  All I have to do to get some 20 to 30% more
> performance is just drop it into SLI :o)))  Heh!   I finally reworked my
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Nothing is OC'd at all.
> McG.

SLI is nice but, meh, I dont really rate that either, it just seems to
expensive, especially when one top of the range card will run everything
fine anyway.  It is a personal preference but I'd rather buy one high end
card, which can run everything I want at good fps / quality, then just buy
another high end card when it begins to struggle.

I never buy top end, the bang for the buck just isn't there, and usually it
just isn't needed.  If I had more cash to expend on a PC, I'd consider it
just to put off upgrading for an extra year or so.  As I play mostly RPG's,
online and single player, memory is more important usually.
Civilian_Target - 17 Jan 2007 11:08 GMT
Where does the X1100 come on that list?

Civilian_Target

>> McG. skrev:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
> in SLI for that test.  You should have scored higher than me?
> McG.
G Hardy - 17 Jan 2007 11:43 GMT
> Where does the X1100 come on that list?

And the X1300?
McG. - 17 Jan 2007 16:23 GMT
>> Where does the X1100 come on that list?
>
> And the X1300?

The X1300 is a lower performer than any of that snipped list I posted.
It's on their list though.
http://users.erols.com/chare/video.htm

GPU's are roughly ranked by performance, lowest at top and highest at
bottom.   The Relative Performance Ranking list starts about 3/4 down
the page.   Remember it is not an absolute ranking.
McG.
G Hardy - 17 Jan 2007 17:09 GMT
>>> Where does the X1100 come on that list?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> bottom.   The Relative Performance Ranking list starts about 3/4 down the
> page.   Remember it is not an absolute ranking.

Thanks for the link - it's going to be much better than the Parhelia I'm
currently using. It does OK with the settings turned down, but even
cs_militia is too much for it.
Civilian_Target - 18 Jan 2007 00:00 GMT
> Thanks for the link - it's going to be much better than the Parhelia I'm
> currently using. It does OK with the settings turned down, but even
> cs_militia is too much for it.

I heard many great things about that card. Sadly few of them were
related to it's 3d performance...

Civilian_Target
G Hardy - 18 Jan 2007 02:26 GMT
>> Thanks for the link - it's going to be much better than the Parhelia I'm
>> currently using. It does OK with the settings turned down, but even
>> cs_militia is too much for it.
>
> I heard many great things about that card. Sadly few of them were related
> to it's 3d performance...

It's a fantastic card (the Parhelia) but yes, it struggles with 3D. HL2 is
playable, but that's about it.

Hopefully the Radeon X1300pro will allow me to do video and photoshop work,
and still have the 3D grunt to make the games look a bit nicer after hours.
It doesn't need to be much better - games are a bit of a release, not a
passion.
McG. - 18 Jan 2007 01:49 GMT
>>>> Where does the X1100 come on that list?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> currently using. It does OK with the settings turned down, but even
> cs_militia is too much for it.

Matrox cards do excellent 2D.   I had to quit them for gaming back with the
Millenium G200.
The next card I had after that (in a Celeron 300A at 450) was a TNT2 Ultra.
I reckon that to be my first major performance card :))
McG.
Lief - 17 Jan 2007 15:15 GMT
> Where does the X1100 come on that list?

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/graphics/charts.html?modelx=33&model1=519&model2=5
47&chart=224

McG. - 17 Jan 2007 15:49 GMT
Dunno, who built it?  ATi didn't.  Their product line goes numerically
from 850 to 1300.   Might be a 3rd party vendor using a modified version
of an ATi standard GPU?   Or you're just pulling my chain :)

McG.

> Where does the X1100 come on that list?
>
> Civilian_Target

snip
Peter [AGHL] - 17 Jan 2007 20:37 GMT
> Dunno, who built it?  ATi didn't.

Oh yes they did :)
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5643

> Their product line goes numerically
> from 850 to 1300.

And further

> Might be a 3rd party vendor using a modified
> version of an ATi standard GPU?

Try AMD :)
http://ati.amd.com/products/Radeonxpress1100mobintel/index.html

> Or you're just pulling my chain :)

Sounds like a good idea - lets get messy

- Peter

Signature

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Civilian_Target - 18 Jan 2007 00:04 GMT
>> Dunno, who built it?  ATi didn't.
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>
> Sounds like a good idea - lets get messy

Oh dear! Given that the X1300 is roughly on par with the X700, I'm
guessing that the X1100 is roughly on par with the X1100. That's not a
good thing!

Civilian_Target
Shawk - 18 Jan 2007 00:14 GMT
> guessing that the X1100 is roughly on par with the X1100.

Sounds reasonable... I'd go with that
McG. - 18 Jan 2007 01:45 GMT
>> Dunno, who built it?  ATi didn't.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> - Peter

Ewwww...' mobility ' !!   No wonder I never heard of it :)
McG.
Peter [AGHL] - 18 Jan 2007 09:00 GMT
McG. skrev:

> >> Might be a 3rd party vendor using a modified
> >> version of an ATi standard GPU?
> >
> > Try AMD :)
> >
> Ewwww...' mobility ' !!   No wonder I never heard of it :)

LOL

- nice catch :)

- Peter
Civilian_Target - 18 Jan 2007 19:54 GMT
> Ewwww...' mobility ' !!   No wonder I never heard of it :)
> McG.

Yeah, a PCs not a good PC if it doesn't weigh at least as much as a
small donkey!

Civilian_Target
McG. - 18 Jan 2007 22:25 GMT
>> Ewwww...' mobility ' !!   No wonder I never heard of it :)
>> McG.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Civilian_Target

Mine weighs about 30 pounds.  Steel case.  Nine fans total.  Way too
many pretty blue lights.  Three hard drives.  Two vid cards.   My
Toshiba Satellite has (ugh!) Intel 910 Mobility graphics.  It plays
Solitaire very well :o)
McG.
Shawk - 18 Jan 2007 23:46 GMT
>>> Ewwww...' mobility ' !!   No wonder I never heard of it :)
>>> McG.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Solitaire very well :o)
> McG.

I bought a server-type case for space and airflow (Antec Performance
Plus 1080AMG).  It was 35lbs *before* I installed anything!
Reassuringly non-mobile
 
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