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Game Forum / Action Games / Half Life / November 2005

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honest request to valve for a special half-life 2 edition

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steamKILLER - 25 Nov 2005 16:43 GMT
a little bit inspired by fellow poster "McGrandpa" and the
issue if valve is listening or not to its customers i had this
idea of making a request to valve, so i invite everyone that
will agree with the following to join me and together we can
either email this request to valve or post it on there own
official forum at steampowered.com
we could also do a petition but i think either an email or a
post in steam official forum would be better

i've been a critic of valve but i think it is time i make a
specific and formal proposal instead of criticizing what i
don't agree in steam

the idea is the following
i understand why as a business model steam is good for valve
but it is also true steam is not good to every customer that
buys pc games
yes i know steam is very popular among some pc gamers but
that is not the point, the point is reaching out for those
that don't use steam for some reason
i do believe the number of pc gamers in this situation are
at least many thousands all around the world so they are
totally worthy to be considered by valve

i fully understand valve is a business and does not make any
kind of charity but i truly believe the following proposition
is not charity and will be profitable to valve and it is a wise
strategy cause i do believe anything that includes as many as
possible pc gamers as valve customers is good
any corporation wants as many customers as possible so that's
why i feel the following proposition makes sense

first let me say that i think the following will benefit valve
but also will not damage at all the current customers that use
steam
that i think is very important
no current steam user can feel damaged with the following cause
they will maintain a privileged status among valve services

my proposition to valve is the following
it would be good to business to make a "special" half-life 2
edition this "special" half-life 2 edition would be a retail
only steam free meaning it would be just like any current pc
game in the retail market
but to not damage steam business model and not compete with
the already steam retail version present it would be a
"crippled" version, a limited "reduced" version
the target for this "special" half-life 2 edition would be the
budget customers, those pc gamers from poor countries either
with no internet access or limited internet access or very
expensive internet access
this "special" edition would have all the features of a
budget edition like:
. a low cost dvd type plastic case
. no printed manual or quick reference card
. in a single dvd disk
. sold exclusively via retail stores
. low profile cover possibly with no illustrations or images
. valve should choose a specialized budget distributor and
not use electronic arts so there would be a clear separation
between the full steam version and this "budget" limited
edition
now what would this "special" version be different from all
the other half-life 2 already released in the past
. it would not need any internet access either to install or
to play
. it would not need steam to run
. it would feature like any current pc game a normal install
wizard and after installation it would run out of the box
with no need for online or phone activations but with the need
to have dvd inserted and featuring the usual copy protections
present in most retail pc games
aside from all this which are typical of any retail pc game
it would have the following "limitations" in comparison with
the current steam half-life 2 versions:
. no other bundled pc game titles from valve back catalog would
be included but only one game, half-life 2
. no patches for this version would be available neither now
neither in the future
. no technical support would be available and the software
would be sold as it is with no warranty except for a limited
30 day warranty on the dvd media
. no possibility of running mods
. no support for auto-updates
. no support for future expansion packs like "aftermatch"??????
. no support for multi-player modes like deathmatch
. no access to extra content
. no support for hdr (high d:???????????
. no possibility of running add-on levels like "lost coast"???????
. required dvd inserted to play
. dvd disk with copy protection to prevent illegal duplication
. no possibility to "upgrade" to steam full half-life 2 version
. all these limitations would be printed in the cover in big bold
letters including a red warning in the front

anyone after buying and playing this version and wanted to
have the "full" steam half-life 2 version with all the
features would have inside the dvd a install file for the
steam client so anyone could have a starting point to access
steam and buy the steam full half-life 2 version
also a added bonus to bring buyers of this version buy also
the full steam version there would be a serial code sticker
in the case that used with steam would give a 10 dollar credit
for those wanting to buy the full steam half-life 2 version so
even not being able to upgrade they could buy it with a reduced
price
this would be a way to promote and make pc gamers use steam
cause i understand what moves valve is steam
so only buying via steam would customers be able to access
all the features present in the full half-life 2 version

with all these limitation this proposed "special" half-life 2
retail package would sell 10 dollars more expensive than the
steam version cause of the cost valve needed to spend to create
this version, which involves programers changing code and extra
testing
the price would be 45 dollars vs the 39.99 the steam version
currently costs
to make sure the retail channel would not make available this
version with a lower price than 45 dollars, limited prints
would be made so with reduced offer prices would never go
down
also there would be no guaranty additional prints would be made
if stock sold-out so pressure would be on the retail market to
not lower the price of this version so it would never reach a
lower price than the steam version
also this version would be available for a limited time only
all these limitations and reduced prints with a more expensive
price would be to protect the steam version and not let it
compete which each other to not damage valve business

so why would this be good for valve?
cause it would for sure make half-life 2 be bought and played by
even more pc gamers around the world and would be a sign valve
does care about pc gamers and listens to them
this version would give a image of friendliness to valve which
is always good for business

so isn't this a fair proposition to valve?
aren't there lots of concessions made to not damage valve?
and specially not damage steam?
isn't this a honest request and one that can be advantageous
to all parts, valve and those pc gamers that can't use
steam? and it doesn't damage at all current steam users cause
they will maintain a special status

anyone that is with me with this proposition and wants to
join me in this request please say so

if valve released this version i would buy it immediatly

i'm also open to suggestions and changes anyone would like
to make although i must add all the concessions i make in
this proposal should be present cause steam is key to valve
business so no way they will ever damage it and i feel
this proposal not only does not damage steam but it also
protects it and makes all the steam users feel steam is a
added value for them

i also thought about this version not featuring all levels
from half-life 2 but limiting the use of expansion packs
and mods and add-on levels i think is enough of a limitation

no steam user can't really say this damage them at all and
it would be good for all those pc gamers with no net access
to be able to play half-life 2 even in a "crippled" limited
edition

valve can say no to this proposal but i don't believe any
steam users can criticize this cause it really doesn't affect
them but only includes many more pc gamers into the half-life
2 universe
steam users can't be that selfish and want half-life 2 only
for them can they?

with this proposal i've gone as far as i can go... more than
all the concessions i make in this is really hard to imagine
probably the only thing that is left is me begging on my knees
Sketch - 25 Nov 2005 17:25 GMT
They did most of this with the Xbox release.
steamKILLER - 28 Nov 2005 08:26 GMT
> They did most of this with the Xbox release.

i already have a gaming unit, which is my pc and i don't have
the money or the space to have a second gaming unit
you could add to me give up pc gaming all together and buy
instead a console
and i would reply to you telling i will always need a pc for
working at home so it is more cheap and it takes less space
to buy a entry level pc graphic card like i have to be able
to play games in my pc than switching to consoles
my pc is not only for games but a multi-purpose multi-function
machine and i need it too much to give it up
and bottom line is i can't afford to have two gaming machines
so my choice is clear and it is the pc
i really don't want to leave the pc for gaming, not even hl2
being available for consoles with a steam free version is
enough for me to abandon the pc
Gonzo - 25 Nov 2005 19:43 GMT
I was totally depressed when I heard that my beloved Red Orchestra Ostfront
retail version was going to be distributed by STEAM.

My personal proposal is to sell a boxed retail version minus the STEAM crap
for $50.  That gives them $30 more to pay for the retail distribution and
make even more profits without effecting their $20 STEAM distribution
revenues.

If STEAM is going to become the norm then I might as well buy a console and
disconnect my broadband to pay for PS3 offline game DVDs etc.

IMHO, Steam will kill the PC gaming industry if everybody jumps on this to
make more money off the kiddies that think it's so grand.  They have lost
touch with their core PC gaming customer.

>a little bit inspired by fellow poster "McGrandpa" and the
> issue if valve is listening or not to its customers i had this
[quoted text clipped - 174 lines]
> all the concessions i make in this is really hard to imagine
> probably the only thing that is left is me begging on my knees
Peter [AGHL] - 25 Nov 2005 20:04 GMT
> IMHO, Steam will kill the PC gaming industry

I'd prefer Steam above the rootkit crap Sony is trying to stuff down my
throat

- Peter
steamKILLER - 28 Nov 2005 08:28 GMT
> I was totally depressed when I heard that my beloved Red
> Orchestra Ostfront retail version was going to be
> distributed by STEAM.

didn't know about this game but would want to try it out if
not for having an exclusive steam distribution

> My personal proposal is to sell a boxed retail version
> minus the STEAM crap for $50.  That gives them $30 more to
> pay for the retail distribution and make even more profits
> without effecting their $20 STEAM distribution revenues.

i agree totally
i suggested a 45 dollar price but i think it is fair to raise
it to 50 dollars
i guess the budget pc gamers like myself have to do an extra
effort to raise some money to buy it, but i think it is worth
the effort if valve decides to release this special version
of half-life 2

> If STEAM is going to become the norm then I might as well
> buy a console and disconnect my broadband to pay for PS3
> offline game DVDs etc.

i will not switch to consoles... i simply end playing games
and find other hobbies

> IMHO, Steam will kill the PC gaming industry if everybody
> jumps on this to make more money off the kiddies that think
> it's so grand.  They have lost touch with their core PC
> gaming customer.

this is also my feeling
that is why i think my proposition is honest, fair and can
help bringing down the gap i feel exists between some like
valve and the core pc gaming customer

and btw do you want your alias and email address to be added
if we decide to post or email this to valve or you prefer i
only sign it myself?
even if valve does not accept this proposition i really want
to leave this with them cause i want to feel at least i tried
to find some common grounds with them
mudboy - 26 Nov 2005 02:39 GMT
Do you have the Coles Notes for your post?
Trimble Bracegirdle - 26 Nov 2005 05:45 GMT
SteamK's done gi-nor-mouse mount of typing there...round of applause for
effort ! Where u bin ???

1) But....No ...Accepting STEAM based products indirectly like this, is
giving into the enemy...when VALVE don't deserve  even a crumb..
2) They will shirley do this (with far less restrictions than SK lists)
anyway..If they dont have a simple buget version they will not-get a
very-lot of money..
3) SK's proposal is no where near rude enough...and has far to many words..
Give in to reality (the nasty bits) and get a WAREZ version with none of
that STEAM nonsense ..

Luv (sort-of) mouse
@@@@@
steamKILLER - 28 Nov 2005 08:33 GMT
> SteamK's done gi-nor-mouse mount of typing there...round of
> applause for effort ! Where u bin ???

where have i been? believe it or not it had to do with money
i pay internet by the minute and i was trying to raise some
cash to be able to buy as many pc games as possible by xmas
and the list includes among others:
. Quake 4
. F.E.A.R.
. Starship Troopers
. King Kong
. Call of Duty 2
. Serious Sam 2
but probably i will only be able to buy 2 or 3 max and the
ones i will choose are quake4, fear and probably starship
troopers leaving all the other for next year

> 1) But....No ...Accepting STEAM based products indirectly
> like this, is giving into the enemy...when VALVE don't
> deserve even a crumb..

yes this is true... i admit my proposition not only makes
many concessions but ultimately it is also giving up the
fight... but i don't want to fight against publishers like
valve all my life, i want peace...
but it really seems like a no win situation

> 2) They will shirley do this (with far less restrictions
> than SK lists) anyway..If they dont have a simple buget
> version they will not-get a very-lot of money..

i also think that is true
if they make a budget edition without steam it will give
them more revenue and profits
probably its a wrong idea i have of valve but i feel they
worry more about steam than with profits at least for now

> 3) SK's proposal is no where near rude enough...and has far
> to many words.. Give in to reality (the nasty bits) and get
> a WAREZ version with none of that STEAM nonsense ..

i thought about that some times but do you know something
i simply don't know any other way than to go to a store and
buy a game in a case with a appealing cover and inside a cd
or dvd with a nice printout
interesting the same happens to those that do the other way
they are so used to pirate it is difficult to change
i'm so used to buying every pc game i play in a case with a
cd or dvd i guess i will never change
don't they say, some habits die hard, with me i really don't
see how i can ever go back and start pirating pc games
sincerely i don't

ps: don't get me wrong but i would really feel happy if you
told us some good news about you actually buying/paying for
some pc games this xmas, will that be possible? (i hope so)
Stri - 26 Nov 2005 10:45 GMT
steamKILLER proclaimed....

> a little bit inspired by fellow poster "McGrandpa" and the
> issue if valve is listening or not to its customers i had this
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> we could also do a petition but i think either an email or a
> post in steam official forum would be better

Sorry, if you want me to take your proposal seriously then you might
want to start by changing your alias?

Signature

Scottie - stri.tk "Where commie killer meets technology"
THL - team-hl.tk "They do give monkey's guns!"

"Every time you masturbate, god kills a kitten"

steamKILLER - 28 Nov 2005 08:34 GMT
> Sorry, if you want me to take your proposal seriously then you might
> want to start by changing your alias?

off course
i would never post anything or write to valve with either
my current alias or email address
both will be changed when writing to valve
btw do you want to be a part of this proposition and have
your name in it?
Stri - 28 Nov 2005 08:49 GMT
steamKILLER proclaimed....

> off course
> i would never post anything or write to valve with either
> my current alias or email address
> both will be changed when writing to valve
> btw do you want to be a part of this proposition and have
> your name in it?

At the moment I have no problems with steam whatsoever. So it would make
little sense for me to be involved in it's change. That said I'd need to
read your post thoroughly before I made any decision.

Due to your original posts which were, to be perfectly honest -
incredulous I'd be very skeptical. However I do believe people can
change and I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

If you want my support the first stage is to your change your alias in
here, permanently.

Signature

Scottie - stri.tk - My Blog
THL - team-hl.tk AGHL's Counter-strike:Source Clan

steamless - 29 Nov 2005 08:47 GMT
> If you want my support the first stage is to your change your alias in
> here, permanently.

i just changed my alias... ok it is not a big change but it
is much less "agressive" and i want this to be a start for
a turning point
next i will obviously want to end my email and use an alias
not related to steam but please give me some time...
Peter [AGHL] - 29 Nov 2005 10:30 GMT
> i just changed my alias... ok it is not a big change but it
> is much less "agressive" and i want this to be a start for
> a turning point

Steamless is ok with, but your nick could be confused with the Steamless
Project
http://www.steamlessproject.nl/v3/index.php?page=news

A project I try to advocate for when adequate

- Peter
steamless gamer - 30 Nov 2005 06:32 GMT
> Steamless is ok with, but your nick could be confused with the Steamless
> Project
> http://www.steamlessproject.nl/v3/index.php?page=news

ok i'll add a "gamer" so it won't be confused with the
steamless project

> A project I try to advocate for when adequate

and i guess you are also involved with a project that
basically wants an alternative to steam which is the
same of my proposal
Stri - 29 Nov 2005 17:04 GMT
steamless proclaimed....

> i just changed my alias... ok it is not a big change but it
> is much less "agressive" and i want this to be a start for
> a turning point
> next i will obviously want to end my email and use an alias
> not related to steam but please give me some time...

Time I can certainly give you. Stick around and we'll assimilate you :)

Signature

Scottie - stri.tk - My Blog
THL - team-hl.tk AGHL's Counter-strike:Source Clan

mudboy - 29 Nov 2005 21:14 GMT
>> If you want my support the first stage is to your change your alias in
>> here, permanently.
>
> i just changed my alias... ok it is not a big change but it
> is much less "agressive" and i want this to be a start for
> a turning point

That's it! I've read enough. You give too much of yourself. I will help you
spread your word to the poor of this world and they shall chant your name
till you become canonized.

But first, I must finish my baloney sandwich...

> next i will obviously want to end my email and use an alias
> not related to steam but please give me some time...
steamKILLER - 28 Nov 2005 08:25 GMT
finally this post appeared in google
i might be totally honest and say there was a moment were
i though: well this is it i will now say goodbye to the
usenet but i guess i can stay after all, at least for now

i really like to thank "Schrodinger" for his help

also i'm sorry in my original post i didn't correct some
parts of the text
all the question marks "?" at some point in my post were
due cause i didn't know the exact spelling or meaning so
i mark it so when i did a re-check i would correct them
but i end up rushing the post and not doing a re-check, i
apologize
so were there is the bunch of question marks "??????" it
should read:
. HDR means High-Dynamic Range
. the expansion is spelled "Aftermath"
. add-on level is called "Lost Coast"
Peter [AGHL] - 28 Nov 2005 12:00 GMT
> also i'm sorry in my original post i didn't correct some
> parts of the text

Awfull decent of you old chap
Always remember that there's more than one side of the story :)

Personally I like Steam and the benefit it gives me
On the other hand I perfectly understand why some prefer not to install/use
a tool like Steam

Please accept that some actually like Steam
I can only talk for myself, but I don't think that any regs in this group
will try to stuff Steam down your throat :)

Start ranting and we'll most likely stuff anything down your throat to make
you stop :)

Thanks/Peter
steamless - 29 Nov 2005 08:50 GMT
> Personally I like Steam and the benefit it gives me

i truly understand it cause steam gives a lot of services
to its costumers

> On the other hand I perfectly understand why some prefer
> not to install/use a tool like Steam

thank you!
that is really the only thing i want from those that use steam
acknowledge there are others like myself that prefer not to use
steam and still be able to buy and play pc games like hl2

> Please accept that some actually like Steam

yes i accept, and not only i accept but i also understand so if
we both have an understanding of each other different views so
why not helping each other
Stri - 28 Nov 2005 09:03 GMT
steamKILLER proclaimed....

> the idea is the following
> i understand why as a business model steam is good for valve
[quoted text clipped - 161 lines]
> all the concessions i make in this is really hard to imagine
> probably the only thing that is left is me begging on my knees


Nothing that you've written seems unfair to me. It may be difficult to
persuade Valve when they've already hit over 95% of their target
audience. I think you'll find it even more difficult to persuade others
in here to put their names to a project which you yourself are taking
ownership off. You're now seeing - through the lack of interested
replies - the legacy of your earlier and undiplomatic posts.

A legacy that I myself took some time to shake off when I first came to
AGHL.

In order to win over the hearts and minds of AGHL I think you're going
to need to be around here a little longer and be more consistent in your
posts as of the minute, I still don't really feel ready to trust you.

That said, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt (if you
excuse the pomposity of that statement) and see where it takes us.

If you wish to proceed without the backing of AGHL members with help
from elsewhere, good luck. Assuming you go ahead with your proposal as
stated and I don't really see a great deal wrong with it.

But I must confess, I never was patient or committed to reading long
posts :)

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Scottie - stri.tk - My Blog
THL - team-hl.tk AGHL's Counter-strike:Source Clan

steamless - 29 Nov 2005 08:53 GMT
> Nothing that you've written seems unfair to me. It may be
> difficult to persuade Valve when they've already hit over
> 95% of their target audience. I think you'll find it even

i really would like to think that number is lower...

> more difficult to persuade others in here to put their
> names to a project which you yourself are taking ownership
> off. You're now seeing - through the lack of interested

if anyone wants to take control of this proposal i will
support him

> replies - the legacy of your earlier and undiplomatic
> posts.

yes my legacy can damage this proposal so i'm available to
let others lead

what i want is for the proposal to be accepted by valve and
me finally being able to buy and play hl2

> A legacy that I myself took some time to shake off when I
> first came to AGHL.

i don't blame you

> In order to win over the hearts and minds of AGHL I think
> you're going to need to be around here a little longer and
> be more consistent in your posts as of the minute, I still
> don't really feel ready to trust you.

i also don't blame you for not trusting me

> That said, I am willing to give you the benefit of the
> doubt (if you excuse the pomposity of that statement) and
> see where it takes us.

fair enough
what do you propose should be the next move?

> If you wish to proceed without the backing of AGHL members
> with help from elsewhere, good luck. Assuming you go ahead

only together do i feel we can make a difference
valve is a business and for sure they will never do anything
just to please a single pc gamer

> with your proposal as stated and I don't really see a great
> deal wrong with it.

fortunately i'm not alone but more is needed
in this case the more the better

> But I must confess, I never was patient or committed to
> reading long posts :)

it is also my fault
my writing is lousy including a total incapability to summarize

with good writing my post could be reduced 75% at least
that is why i would prefer others doing the actual writing cause
i really wasn't born to write
if nobody volunteer to write in my place i will do my best to
improve the proposal text
Stri - 29 Nov 2005 17:08 GMT
steamless proclaimed....

> with good writing my post could be reduced 75% at least
> that is why i would prefer others doing the actual writing cause
> i really wasn't born to write
> if nobody volunteer to write in my place i will do my best to
> improve the proposal text

I'm more than happy to write (not that it's any better tbh) but I would
only write in something I really believe in. I'm not 100% in favour of
your cause. I just respect that you have an agenda which has points to
it which I find valid.

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THL - team-hl.tk AGHL's Counter-strike:Source Clan

McGrandpa - 29 Nov 2005 17:35 GMT
> steamless proclaimed....
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> your cause. I just respect that you have an agenda which has points to
> it which I find valid.

Well put Scottie :)
McG.
Stri - 29 Nov 2005 17:39 GMT
McGrandpa proclaimed....

> Well put Scottie :)

I think Bigjobs, Sabaki and the like are wearing off on me. This time
next year I might even progress from 'twat' to 'gimp'

I'm working hard! :)

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steamless gamer - 30 Nov 2005 06:33 GMT
> I'm more than happy to write (not that it's any better tbh) but I would
> only write in something I really believe in. I'm not 100% in favour of
> your cause. I just respect that you have an agenda which has points to
> it which I find valid.

fair enough
Stri - 29 Nov 2005 17:11 GMT
steamless proclaimed....

> fair enough
> what do you propose should be the next move?

Lurk.

Demonstrate through your actions that you can be trusted. This way, even
if others don't agree with you they'll still respect that you have a
valid point of view.

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Scottie - stri.tk - My Blog
THL - team-hl.tk AGHL's Counter-strike:Source Clan

McGrandpa - 28 Nov 2005 12:19 GMT
>a little bit inspired by fellow poster "McGrandpa" and the
> issue if valve is listening or not to its customers i had this
[quoted text clipped - 174 lines]
> all the concessions i make in this is really hard to imagine
> probably the only thing that is left is me begging on my knees

Perhaps you give up too much.  Perhaps not.   Simply by clearly limiting the
proposed version to single player and no external communications is good.
Why would Valve punish honest people?   You are only asking for a Steam-less
single player version of the game.   I can't see a need to make the thing
more complicated by adding code to keep it from running mods, extra levels,
added content or make it un-patchable.
It's fair to have the Steam package available on the disk seperate from the
SP game, in case things for the user change and they want to use Steam and
the regular full game.
You may have to allow that the game validate with Valve.
It's good though, what you've done here.   It's one step.  There are
probably a few more in the path to Valves door.
Being as I think you were being honest in my original post to you that
caused this message, I respect you in this.
Prepare your proposal.   In Honesty, I'll stand with you in this request.
Michael S. McCollum
McG.
steamless - 29 Nov 2005 08:56 GMT
> Perhaps you give up too much.  Perhaps not.  Simply by
> clearly limiting the proposed version to single player
> and no external communications is good.

i also believe that is key to the proposal

> Why would Valve punish honest people?  You are only asking
> for a Steam-less single player version of the game.

exactly!

> I can't see a need to make the thing more complicated by
> adding code to keep it from running mods, extra levels,
> added content or make it un-patchable.

i propose it so there would be a clear penalty for choosing
this version but if valve feels it is not necessary then i
obviously will not mind at all and will thank them

> It's fair to have the Steam package available on the disk
> seperate from the SP game, in case things for the user
> change and they want to use Steam and the regular full
> game.

that i also thought would be very important for valve

> You may have to allow that the game validate with Valve.

yes obviously but only if and when you install steam
if you install steam with the proposed separate installation
file then you would have to do the normal product activation
but only if you choose to install steam cause with only the
game installation no steam product activation would be at all
necessary

> It's good though, what you've done here.  It's one step.
> There are probably a few more in the path to Valves door.

what other steps do you suggest coming next?

> Being as I think you were being honest in my original post
> to you that caused this message, I respect you in this.

i don't have no hidden agenda
i simply want to be able to play half-life 2 like you and
all the others

> Prepare your proposal.  In Honesty, I'll stand with you in
> this request.
> Michael S. McCollum
> McG.

Thank you very much
you are the first one to do it and now it is a certainty i
will go forward with it
If we can't find anyone to do the writing in my place cause
of my obvious writing skills limitations i will do it the
same although it would be better other writing it...
Next i will try and summarize the proposal so it is more
easy to read, and will do what i should have done in the
first place which is using capitalization and punctuation
McGrandpa - 29 Nov 2005 19:43 GMT
>> Perhaps you give up too much.  Perhaps not.  Simply by
>> clearly limiting the proposed version to single player
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> easy to read, and will do what i should have done in the
> first place which is using capitalization and punctuation

There still should not be some "penalty" for honest people trying their best
to do the Right Thing.   People who will gladly pay an honest price for an
honest (though Steam-less) product.
We don't have to find anyone to do the writing in your place.   We have you,
in your legitimate cause and in your own hand and words.   Such a thing
should carry across the sincerity that the whole exists in.   It is best I
feel, if it is you, from your own place, coming forth with your own words.
When you've finished it, SAVE it.  Then walk away from it for a couple of
days.   Open it and read it then.   It will be fresh and you will likely
make corrections.   You may do this a couple of times, to ensure it is what
you truly want to say.   Then you might have someone critique your work,
offer an honest opinion of it.  When you're happy with it, you/I/we all can
find the best way to get it to Gabe Newell/Valve.  Who better than he?   I
believe he owns Valve Software and therefore Steam.   He's shown the world
that he IS approachable, as a person.
I truly feel that the worst response to your plight would be:   nothing.
Submitting your proposal could result in that as well, however;  if NOT
submitted, there will only be..    nothing.
At best, you could soon be playing a legitimate Half-Life 2 with just a one
time (per install) product activation.
McG.
steamless gamer - 30 Nov 2005 06:35 GMT
> There still should not be some "penalty" for honest people
> trying their best to do the Right Thing.  People who will
> gladly pay an honest price for an honest (though
> Steam-less) product.

obviously i leave the penalties for valve to choose what is
appropriate but i wrote all those penalties in the proposal
to show how far i am willing to go
i believe it is important to show valve pc gamers understand
not using steam has to mean some penalty
what penalties i guess ultimately only valve could say

> We don't have to find anyone to do the writing in your
> place.  We have you, in your legitimate cause and in your
> own hand and words.  Such a thing should carry across the

i guess it will be me...
i only hope the poor english will not make valve look at it
with lower consideration

> sincerity that the whole exists in.  It is best I feel, if
> it is you, from your own place, coming forth with your own
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> truly want to say.  Then you might have someone critique
> your work, offer an honest opinion of it.  When you're

yes i will not do it in a rush like i did the first one
but obviously i will present it to you and all this group
for more corrections

> happy with it, you/I/we all can find the best way to get it
> to Gabe Newell/Valve.  Who better than he?  I believe he
> owns Valve Software and therefore Steam.  He's shown the
> world that he IS approachable, as a person.

he is the owner of valve which is a privately company
so i believe he is the one that ultimate decides

what would you think if we first showed it in the steam group
at steampowered.com to see the reception and only after we
would email it

> I truly feel that the worst response to your plight would
> be:  nothing. Submitting your proposal could result in that
> as well, however; if NOT submitted, there will only be..
> nothing.

i really have to take a chance... cause nothing more is left

> At best, you could soon be playing a legitimate Half-Life 2
> with just a one time (per install) product activation.
>
> McG.

but that is the same of what is happening in the present no?
at least it is what i read from many steam users

but my proposal clearly states no product activation to play
for the game not even once or per install
this is extremely important to me and essential
let me go back to my proposal and quote some parts
--star quote--
"my proposition to valve is the following
it would be good to business to make a "special" half-life 2
edition this "special" half-life 2 edition would be a retail
only steam free meaning it would be just like any current pc
game in the retail market"
--end quote--
--star quote--
"now what would this "special" version be different from all
the other half-life 2 already released in the past
. it would not need any internet access either to install or
to play"
--end quote--
--star quote--
". it would feature like any current pc game a normal install
wizard and after installation it would run out of the box
with no need for online or phone activations but with the need
to have dvd inserted and featuring the usual copy protections
present in most retail pc games"
--end quote--
i couldn't be any more explicit about product activation
my proposed version has no product activation of any kind
now if people decided to install the separate and optional
steam installation file then they would have to do it but
that is not required to play in single player
no product activation is for me key to the proposal
it wouldn't make any sense to the proposal letting it have
product activation when it is the main issue
i don't know if you endorsed my proposal not fully knowing
any product activation could never be part of this version
i hope this doesn't make you change your mind and i still
have your support but one thing for sure this proposal is
based on a no product activation/no internet required for
half-life 2 single player
Cyde Weys - 28 Nov 2005 20:17 GMT
If you want people to take you seriously, please at least use proper
capitalization, okay?  I'm sure you were taught it in school, but
somehow you seemed to have forgotten, or not considered it important
....
steamless - 29 Nov 2005 08:57 GMT
> If you want people to take you seriously, please at least use proper
> capitalization, okay?

You are totally right
But the best would be someone else doing the actual writing
If no one volunteer, i will obviously continue doing the best
i can but feel free to correct my english
 
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