I've used Sidewinders, and Saitek makes some pretty good stuff,
but if I was looking for a flightsim joystick right now, this is what I
would be going for: http://tinyurl.com/f8mz

Even the buttons and switches are all-metal. A recent PCGamer
sim-reviewer commented that it is indeed a solid chunk of metal
on your desk, and weighs like it. Never have to worry about that
bugger tipping over, or skittering around on you! But for $300.00
US, it's a stick for serious, deep-pocketed gamers! <g>
   -Marshall

   -Marshall

Neil Jones proclaimed...

Well I'm not sure if I'm a flight-simmer in the purest sense. I don't
really feel at home unless I'm protected by shielding, hull and few ton
of cargo.

I used the Sidewinder Dual Strike for games like Starlancer and it's
simply superb. Don't be fooled by anyone who tells you it's a mouse
substitute for first-person shooters - it's not even close.

Mind, if I was going for a "flight sim" type control today I wouldn't go
for the SWDS. It's still a good bit of kit though.

http://tinyurl.com/f8qx

I guess that it's Paul or Mr. Wildstyle that are the best ones
to ask. I got a Logitec Freedom 2.4 cordless that works ok for me.
Right know it's out of batteries and I have only used it for BF1942.
For me it was a good choice for the game I'm using it for.
It's nice to be able to easily put it away when changing roles,
no cord over the desktop etc. I guess that as always it's a matter
of taste and what feels good.

lyset

Wahay, good for you! :)  I assumed you'd stick with Sturmovik.  I haven't really
got fully to grips with FB myself yet, but I've enjoyed the missions I've
played, mostly a Russian fighter campaign (I-16, delightful little plane, if the
engine wouldn't keep cutting out).  The He-111 bomber is also good fun and makes
a nice noise.  I think you'll find the flight models are generally a bit easier,
which has been the cause of much community debate ("It can't be realistic if it
isn't hard").  A patch is due soon.

Campaign tip: the planes that you fly as you progress through the war are
selectable when you first start a new campaign, by clicking on them (opens a
drop-down list).  This is not very obvious, and isn't in the manual.

Anyway, back to the question...

So I've heard.  Good of MS to make an OS that isn't compatible with their own
hardware.

Well, I've only ever owned two proper joysticks, so the advice I can offer is
limited.  My first was a Logitech Wingman 3D, not the same as the one they make
now.  It was really very good, nice feel, precise control, a good heavy base,
plenty of well-placed buttons.  It was getting a little bit slack by the time I
got rid of it, but it served me well.  I'm not sure if Logitech's current one is
as good.

I replaced it with a Saitek X36, a linked joystick and throttle combo (known as
a "HOTAS", for "Hands On Throttle And Stick").  The idea with these things is
that they usually have lots of programmable buttons so you don't have to take
your hands off to reach for the keyboard.  It's a good idea in theory, but if I
have too many functions programmed I end up reaching for the keys anyway because
I can't remember the setup (I've tried cue cards).  IL-2 is pretty good in this
respect, since there are no avionics to worry about.  Anyway, the X36 is very
good, although intended for pilots with freakishly large hands.  There's a good
selection of reasonably well-placed buttons and several hat switches, and a
rocker-switch on the throttle for rudder control that is a good idea but it
cramps my hand and sometimes means I can't reach a button at a critical rudder
moment, e.g. takeoff.  I'd like to get a set of pedals for rudder control, but
they are expensive.  The construction seems reasonably sturdy and the bases are
big and fairly weighty.

The X36 has been superseded by the X45, which is pretty much the same with some
extra functions.  Both run at their best under Win98SE.  For XP, third-party
programming software has been written (notably by Dhauzimmer) that is supposed
to work well, but I haven't tried it.  My X36 was extremely unstable under
Win95, but I've had no trouble in Win98.  Apparently Saitek have now released
XP-compatible drivers and software.  I'm not sure how good they are.

The Saitek HOTASes are a little expensive compared to just a joystick, but they
are good value for money.  For silly money you can have a Thrustmaster HOTAS
Cougar, as Marshall suggested.  Frankly, I don't think they are worth it.
Apparently you need a strong wrist to operate the things, and the resistance
isn't even in all directions.  They have loads of buttons and are extremely
programmable, and the all-metal construction makes it both cool and robust, but
I think you can wear out about four X45s for the price of a Cougar.  I believe
it was a limited edition anyway, and may not be available any more.

Chances are you don't want to go for a HOTAS if you're not big on flight-sims,
so the features I think you need to look for are:

1. A wide and heavy base, so you don't need to hold the joystick down with your
other hand.  This is *the* most important factor IMO, and filters the available
selection substantially.  Suction cups don't work.
2. Precise control.  This may be difficult to judge in the shop, but you can
tell the ones that are really slack.  A bit of play in the centre is alright,
but not too much.  Anything around ?25-?30 from a decent manufacturer (Logitech,
Thrustmaster, Saitek) should be pretty good.
3. Buttons!  Lots of them.  A hat switch is very important for view control.  If
you have two you can use them for other functions too.  Buttons shouldn't be a
stretch to reach (the X36/X45 isn't great in this respect).  Many joysticks have
mode or shift switches, which multiply the number of functions that can be
allocated to the other buttons.
4. A good throttle lever is essential, and some form of rudder control would be
very useful (I haven't tried a twist-grip, but it seems like a good idea).
Rudder control via keyboard is never very effective in sims.

I can't really say whether force-feedback is worthwhile, never having tried it.
If it varied the stick resistance depending on the elevator trim, it would be
very useful indeed, but I don't think any of them will do that.  I believe they
just vibrate when you are hit or are firing guns.  A little jolt when you touch
the ground might be helpful, though not realistic.  A force-feedback chair would
be a better idea.

I expect most of the above is pretty obvious.  The bottom line is that it's
better to try them out in PC World first (but, of course, on no account should
you buy anything there).  I don't think they have HOTASes though.  I'd be
interested to know what you get and how you like it.

--
Paul

I'd recommend Saitek's X-36, or it's successor, the X-45(?) as the best
throttle & stick combination for the money. (?70ish).  Thrustmaster do a
cheaper throttle & stick combination, but I don't think (iirc) that it
has the programmability options of the Saitek.  If you can, definitely
get a separate throttle - it makes a huge difference.

As far as I know Saitek have sorted out their software for XP, although
there are a set of third party drivers that are as good, and offer more
options for programming command sequences etc to the stick.

I don't think FFB is an essential thing for flight simming (I'd add the
caveat that I've never had a stick that was FFB).  I get the impression
from posts about it on flight simming fora that it's unevenly supported,
and that you can get a hefty framerate hit with it.