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Smoothest games

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reborn rolla - 25 Mar 2004 03:29 GMT
The three smoothest games have ever played are:

1) Half-Life
2) Return To Castle Wolfenstein
3) Quake 3 Arena

You could literally A-D W-S and jump with no lag. Many newer games are
bugged-out messes. I would rather replay these games a hundred times than
get ripped off by all these new rushed out, patch me 3 times rip-offs!
rat - 25 Mar 2004 03:51 GMT
and in about five and half years time, you'll be able to say:
"The three smoothest games (I) have ever played are:
1) Half-Life
2) HL2
3) Third Life"
cos nuthin' else even matters...
;-)

--
rat
proud owner of
3 "AGHL cost me my house" points
2 "I lost my points down the back of the sofa" points
2 "I was there, man!" points
5 "The AGHL guru is [IN]" points
5 "helping a woman to park in the tight vastness of cyberspace" points
5 "Evil Bastard" points

> The three smoothest games have ever played are:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> bugged-out messes. I would rather replay these games a hundred times than
> get ripped off by all these new rushed out, patch me 3 times rip-offs!
Cannon Fodder - 25 Mar 2004 03:58 GMT
That's why I'm glad I'm not you.... I love adventure and and seeking
new horizons... Too bad you haven't experimented with better key
combos than the default ones... They suck..... Are you 11 or 12???

> The three smoothest games have ever played are:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>bugged-out messes. I would rather replay these games a hundred times than
>get ripped off by all these new rushed out, patch me 3 times rip-offs!

     
     "Remember, when the aliens return to reap
      their harvest they'll eat the fat folks first.."
reborn rolla - 25 Mar 2004 04:23 GMT
> That's why I'm glad I'm not you.... I love adventure and and seeking
> new horizons...

Like hanging out here?

Too bad you haven't experimented with better key
> combos than the default ones... They suck.....

So what do you use? A sidewinder joystick.

Are you 11 or 12???

Freakin' perv!!!
Mike Kohary - 25 Mar 2004 04:37 GMT
> That's why I'm glad I'm not you.... I love adventure and and seeking
> new horizons... Too bad you haven't experimented with better key
> combos than the default ones... They suck...

What's better?

Mike
Nick - 25 Mar 2004 11:06 GMT
> Too bad you haven't experimented with better key combos than the default ones

Hey Cannon... erm... I'm still using roughly the default ones too. Can you recommend better ones
please? Or have a link to that sort of thing? I've heard that the l33t games use the num pad - any
truth in this?

Cheers,
Nick
Civilian_Target - 25 Mar 2004 13:08 GMT
>> Too bad you haven't experimented with better key combos than the default ones
>
>Hey Cannon... erm... I'm still using roughly the default ones too. Can you recommend better ones
>please? Or have a link to that sort of thing? I've heard that the l33t games use the num pad - any
>truth in this?

I'm using the defaults too, except that I have a toggle crouch key
too, and I can whip his wrinkled old a.s any day :)

Speaking of which, when's the next bash Cannon, the last one was damn
enjoyable. That big toilet rats level is just nasty, took me a while
to figure out where all the snipers were hiding....

Civilian_Target
Cannon Fodder - 25 Mar 2004 18:05 GMT
Bah!!! I've had botox treatments so I'll have you know my old a.s is
smooth as a babies....

As far as a bash is concerned it's available anytime... Just get
enough people together to make it worthwhile...

>I'm using the defaults too, except that I have a toggle crouch key
>too, and I can whip his wrinkled old a.s any day :)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Civilian_Target
Neil Jones - 25 Mar 2004 19:40 GMT
> > Too bad you haven't experimented with better key combos than the default
> > ones
>
> Hey Cannon... erm... I'm still using roughly the default ones too. Can you
> recommend better ones

Bold always argues for moving the keys along the keyboard by one or
two, so the T cluster is ESDF or RDFG (I believe - google previous
discussions to be sure) - he claims it gives you more keys within easy
reach. I'm sure he's right, but I've got grooved with the default ones
now ('default' *now*, but originally the cursor keys were the
default!). It was Bungie that pioneered WASD and mouselook.

___
Neil
AKA HighVis
Civilian_Target - 25 Mar 2004 21:38 GMT
>It was Bungie that pioneered WASD and mouselook.

Was it? Half-Life was the first game I played that defaulted to WSAD
although I had set up Q2 for WSAD before that...

Civilian_Target
Ben Cottrell - 25 Mar 2004 23:59 GMT
>>It was Bungie that pioneered WASD and mouselook.

In what game?

> Was it? Half-Life was the first game I played that defaulted to WSAD
> although I had set up Q2 for WSAD before that...

I first heard of WSAD in the days of Quake 1 as the "PC Gamer
reccomended controls" around '96.. although the Q1 defaults were cursor
keys.

Signature

Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills
and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian Wilson,
Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Neil Jones - 26 Mar 2004 13:03 GMT
> >>It was Bungie that pioneered WASD and mouselook.
>
> In what game?

Marathon (although oddly enough Jason Jones, the creator, used to just
use the keyboard... some of the movies I've seen of him taking out
ridiculous numbers of enemies on the hardest difficulty level didn't
involve using the mouse at all. Perverse.)

> > Was it? Half-Life was the first game I played that defaulted to WSAD
> > although I had set up Q2 for WSAD before that...
>
> I first heard of WSAD in the days of Quake 1 as the "PC Gamer
> reccomended controls" around '96.. although the Q1 defaults were cursor
> keys.

As were the Q2 ones, I seem to remember.

___
Neil
AKA HighVis
Jethro[AGHL] - 26 Mar 2004 14:54 GMT
> >It was Bungie that pioneered WASD and mouselook.
>
> Was it? Half-Life was the first game I played that defaulted to WSAD
> although I had set up Q2 for WSAD before that...
>
> Civilian_Target

HL was the first game I tried to use the keyboard\mouse combo. I had
heard it was supposed to be better. :-)
I was keyboard only with Quake1 and stupidly stubborn with keyboard only
with Quake2.

Signature

Jethro[AGHL] aka Phat_Pinger
Reply Email: jeff (at) tibben (dot) ca

Strider - 26 Mar 2004 16:25 GMT
Jethro[AGHL] proclaimed...

> HL was the first game I tried to use the keyboard\mouse combo. I had
> heard it was supposed to be better. :-)
> I was keyboard only with Quake1 and stupidly stubborn with keyboard only
> with Quake2.

I think I used mouse and keyboard on doom first. At the time the aiming
was mostly keyboard but I do remember slight adjustments in aim with the
mouse.

Jedi Knight Dark Forces II was the first game which I really played
loads and found the system useful.

Signature

www.stri.tk

"We have two ears and one mouth so we may listen more
and talk less." - Epictetus.

Neil Jones - 26 Mar 2004 18:48 GMT
> Jethro[AGHL] proclaimed...
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> was mostly keyboard but I do remember slight adjustments in aim with the
> mouse.

Bit pointless making vertical adjustments in Doom, wasn't it?

___
Neil
AKA HighVis
Strider - 26 Mar 2004 19:27 GMT
Neil Jones proclaimed...

> Bit pointless making vertical adjustments in Doom, wasn't it?

I don't think you could look vertical adjustments, the mouse was in some
ignorant state used to aim more precisely on the horizontal plane.

Signature

www.stri.tk

"We have two ears and one mouth so we may listen more
and talk less." - Epictetus.

Len - 27 Mar 2004 06:27 GMT
Some time ago I found a little utility that allows mouse-look,
jumping, etc. in Doom2, so I installed it and played through D2 again,
just for old time's sake.  It was a real hoot being able to aim
rockets & stuff at enemies not on the horizontal plain.  It made it a
lot easier to defeat the "end-boss" too.  Anybody remember the name of
this little gem of a utility?

>Neil Jones proclaimed...
>
>> Bit pointless making vertical adjustments in Doom, wasn't it?
>
>I don't think you could look vertical adjustments, the mouse was in some
>ignorant state used to aim more precisely on the horizontal plane.
John Twernbold - 30 Mar 2004 00:56 GMT
> Some time ago I found a little utility that allows mouse-look,
> jumping, etc. in Doom2, [...] Anybody remember the name of this little
> gem of a utility?

There are a number of "wrappers" for Doom/DoomII which enable mouselook, as
well as OpenGL support and a number of other features. Try jDoom:

http://www.doomsdayhq.com/

Signature

Bold
aka John Twernbold
jtwernbold (at) yahoo.com

Paul Catley - 26 Mar 2004 21:06 GMT
> Jedi Knight Dark Forces II was the first game which I really played
> loads and found the system useful.

IIRC though, JK (or maybe DF) used Mouse 2 for Forward.  It took me years to get
used to using the W in WASD after those.  I had to be forced by games like
SWAT3, that had a fixed use for the RMB.

--
Paul
Strider - 26 Mar 2004 21:38 GMT
Paul Catley proclaimed...

> IIRC though, JK (or maybe DF) used Mouse 2 for Forward.  It took me years to get
> used to using the W in WASD after those.  I had to be forced by games like
> SWAT3, that had a fixed use for the RMB.

Not Dark Forces. But there was one. I'm pretty sure Delta Force? wasn't
too.

Signature

www.stri.tk

"We have two ears and one mouth so we may listen more
and talk less." - Epictetus.

John Twernbold - 30 Mar 2004 01:01 GMT
> Bold always argues for moving the keys along the keyboard by one or
> two, so the T cluster is ESDF or RDFG

ESDF or YGHJ, actually. Here's a cut 'n' paste of my Key Config sermon:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

There's no one perfect setup and each player must find their own best
config, but I'll share my thoughts on the matter.

In my opinion, there are a couple of main goals in creating your layout:
1. Functions which will never be used simultaneously can be bound to
keys operated by the same finger.
2. Functions which *will* be used simultaneously must be bound to keys
operated by different fingers.
3. Most important functions should be bound to keys you can press
without contorting your hand

The main movement functions are Forward, Back, Strafe Left, Strafe
Right, and Jump. Additional important movement commands (in Half-Life)
are Crouch, Walk, Swim Up, and Swim Down.

The main gun functions in HL are Fire, Alt Fire, Reload, Next Weapon,
and Prev. Weapon. Last Weapon can also be an important function
depending on your preferences, and some mods have additional very
important functions, such as TFC's Gren1 and Gren2.

The miscellaneous important functions are Use, Commandmenu (or radio
menu, depending on mod), and Flashlight.

My philosophy is to bind all the gun functions to my mouse, since it's
also the device which controls aiming. Left button is Fire, right button
is Alt Fire, thumb button is Reload, and mousewheel is Next/Prev weapon.
The mousewheel button could be used as Last Weapon.

This frees up my left hand on my keyboard for the movement keys. The
"inverted-T" configuration is arguably the most popular movement layout,
and for good reason: it divides the movement function in a way that is
both logical and ergonomic. This inverted-T was inspired by the arrow
keys next to the keyboard's number pad, but you can use any group of
four keys in an inverted-T shape. The most popular is WASD, which is the
HL default. This works, but there are two problems: first, it crams your
hand to the edge of the keyboard, limiting the number of nearby keys you
can bind. Second, it pulls your hand off the "home row", so people who
are touch typists need to reposition their hand in order to type a
message.

A better choice is ESDF. It has more nearby bindable keys, it's on the
home row, and it even has a raised bump on the "F" key to help you find
the proper hand position without looking down. (Personally, I use YGHJ.
It offers the maximum number of nearby bindable keys, has raised bumps
on both the J and the F, and is in a central position that makes it easy
to use all the number and Function keys. But ESDF is an excellent choice
for most people, especially those who don't have a desire to bind dozens
of team messages.)

With the inverted-T on ESDF, the middle finger operates both E for
forward and D for back. This is logical since you can't go forward and
back at the same time. Ring finger on S is Strafe Left and index finger
on F is Strafe Right, with the thumb on the space bar for Jump. The
pinkie on the A key is a good choice for Crouch.

By dividing these functions among four fingers and a thumb, you can
combine them in every way possible. And by isolating all gun functions
(including aiming) on the right hand, you have a setup that is *very*
flexible. For example, you can run diagonally back to the left (Strafe
Left + Back) while jumping (Jump) changing weapons (Next Weapon) and
reloading (reload). As you land you do a quick 180 turn (Mouselook),
crouch (Crouch) while moving diagonally forward to the right (Strafe
Left + Forward), zoom in (Alt Fire) and shoot (Fire).

Where you place the other functions is pretty much up to personal
preference, with the dexterity of your fingers as your only limit. For
example, I have my pinkie operate a great many keys. For movement, I use
it for all height/speed functions: Crouch, Walk, Swim Up, and Swim Down.
I also use it for Gren1 and Gren2 in TFC. This allows me to combine
*any* of these functions with the basic movement and gun keys, allowing
me to (for example) throw a grenade at any time. Yet most of these will
never be done simultaneously. If I'm crouching, I won't need to walk. I
won't need to swim both up and down at exactly the same time. And I
probably won't need to walk underwater.

The only limit is that I can't throw a grenade while crouched, swimming
down, etc. But that's a small price to pay since I still have all the
other movement skills. At one time I operated the grenades with my index
finger, and quickly realized I couldn't strafe right while holding a
primed grenade. On my first attempt to strafe left into a hallway and
throw a grenade at a SG, I was instantly blown up since I couldn't make
the switch back to Strafe Right fast enough. Time for a change.  :-)

That anecdote also illustrates my final recommendation: experiment,
experiment, experiment. You should definitely sit down for an afternoon
and think through what you want, but you'll probably come up with a few
different ideas. Try 'em out and evaluate each one. Be sure to give each
layout (including the one I suggested above) a fair trial, however; a
new config won't feel comfortable for several hours (or even
days/weeks). Evaluate a layout not on how familiar it feels, but how
useful, logical, and ergonomic it is.

Good luck!

Signature

Bold
aka John Twernbold
jtwernbold (at) yahoo.com

Cannon Fodder - 25 Mar 2004 22:11 GMT
I was just kidding... I use different keys because my manual dexterity
isn't what it should be....It allows me to play most of the game with
one hand.... (Can hold a rum and coke in the free one)

mouse 1 primary fire
mouse  2 forward
mouse  3 back
'                  secondary fire
;                   strafe right
L                  strafe left
K                  reload weapon
shift             crossbow or MP5
enter           crowbar
\                    snark

>> Too bad you haven't experimented with better key combos than the default ones
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/04
Nick - 26 Mar 2004 10:22 GMT
> I was just kidding... I use different keys because my manual dexterity
> isn't what it should be....It allows me to play most of the game with
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> enter           crowbar
> \                    snark

Errrrr. Wow. Sceeeeeeary.

I let a mate of mine have a go of TFC on my machine the other week, he reassigned all the keys to
absolute horrors - I think mouse 1 was forward or something, and he had no back - didn't use strafe
at all. So I set up a LAN game and kicked his a.s every which way. He said he'd learn "proper" keys
after that hehehehe
Mike Kohary - 25 Mar 2004 04:37 GMT
> The three smoothest games have ever played are:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> bugged-out messes. I would rather replay these games a hundred times than
> get ripped off by all these new rushed out, patch me 3 times rip-offs!

What other games are you referring to?  Games like Serious Sam and No One
Lives Forever were excellent and very smooth FPS games.  Far Cry and
Painkiller are part of the newest breed of FPS with extremely sophisticated
graphics and physics engines, and they are "smooth" too.

Maybe it's your machine - has it been upgraded since Half-Life?  ;)

Mike
reborn rolla - 25 Mar 2004 04:46 GMT
> > The three smoothest games have ever played are:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> What other games are you referring to?  Games like Serious Sam and No One
> Lives Forever were excellent and very smooth FPS games.

Serious Sam 2nd Encounter was a great smooth game.

Far Cry and
> Painkiller are part of the newest breed of FPS with extremely sophisticated
> graphics and physics engines, and they are "smooth" too.

Have not played Far Cry but Painkiller is buggy!

> Maybe it's your machine - has it been upgraded since Half-Life?  ;)

I have a medium computer. 2.1 ghz AMD  Athlon, 512 ram and 64mb mx440
video. But that is not the point. With all the horsepower needed to run
newer games, they are not as good as the older classics!
Mike Kohary - 25 Mar 2004 05:21 GMT
>  Far Cry and
> > Painkiller are part of the newest breed of FPS with extremely
> sophisticated
> > graphics and physics engines, and they are "smooth" too.
>
> Have not played Far Cry but Painkiller is buggy!

The demo ran perfectly for me.

> > Maybe it's your machine - has it been upgraded since Half-Life?  ;)
>
>  I have a medium computer. 2.1 ghz AMD  Athlon, 512 ram and 64mb mx440
> video. But that is not the point. With all the horsepower needed to run
> newer games, they are not as good as the older classics!

Sounds like a decent rig, but that last statement just isn't very
reasonable, no offense intended.  First, you can dial down the options and
probably get most things to run smoothly.  They won't look as good as they
*can*, but then again they shouldn't look worse than older games that are
favorites.  Second, it's just a matter of progress - computer horsepower
continues increasing, and the games follow.  I think that's good for
everyone - what would be the point of letting things stagnate?

You're always going to be able to say "with all the horsepower needed to run
newer games..."  It's just part of being a PC gamer, what can I say?  ;)

Mike
reborn rolla - 25 Mar 2004 05:41 GMT
> >  Far Cry and
> > > Painkiller are part of the newest breed of FPS with extremely
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Mike

Of course technology increasing is good. Bigger and faster PC's and more
video, great. But I have bought new games that just suck and have bugs. Or
are smaller than past games like Thief or HL.

A good way to choose games is with a game review site submitted by gamers
so your hard earned money is not wasted by games like Iron Storm.
Mike Kohary - 25 Mar 2004 05:45 GMT
> Of course technology increasing is good. Bigger and faster PC's and more
> video, great. But I have bought new games that just suck and have bugs. Or
> are smaller than past games like Thief or HL.

I concede that plenty of games suck.  :)

>  A good way to choose games is with a game review site submitted by gamers
> so your hard earned money is not wasted by games like Iron Storm.

Yeah, definitely.  I never buy blind.  I play demos if available, and I
always read reviews.  I guess I'm not disappointed in any newer games
because I never buy bad games.  :)

Mike
reborn rolla - 25 Mar 2004 06:05 GMT
> > Of course technology increasing is good. Bigger and faster PC's and more
> > video, great. But I have bought new games that just suck and have bugs. Or
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Mike

It is also the little things that make a great game. Since FPS are my fav's,
when you shoot at glass windows and they don't break it is not new
technology. Or try to smash crates, locks etc. Secret areas are awesome! How
many times do you come to an area with many buildings and doors and none
open!

Exploring levels is so much fun and when a new area is found, it's just
icing on the cake.
Neil Jones - 25 Mar 2004 11:13 GMT
> Secret areas are awesome! How many times do you come to an area with many buildings and doors and none
> open!

"Yes! You've found a Secret Area!!"

I hate that - it's bloody juvenile, a throwback to old console games
where the only long-lasting challenge was to explore absolutely
everything, even the areas with no relevance to the game. It's just the
mapmakers showing off. I've just seen the same sort of thing in the
Painkiller demo... old, tired game design.

___
Neil
AKA HighVis
reborn rolla - 25 Mar 2004 16:34 GMT
> > Secret areas are awesome! How many times do you come to an area with many buildings and doors and none
> > open!
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> mapmakers showing off. I've just seen the same sort of thing in the
> Painkiller demo... old, tired game design.

To pay over 50 dollars for a game and then race through it seems like a
waste. Secret areas and exploring give you time to stop and smell the coffee
while making the game last more than 2 or 3 days.
Paul Catley - 26 Mar 2004 01:28 GMT
> To pay over 50 dollars for a game and then race through it seems like a
> waste. Secret areas and exploring give you time to stop and smell the coffee
> while making the game last more than 2 or 3 days.

You don't think they should maybe give you more to do, then?

--
Paul
Anders Simonsson - 26 Mar 2004 08:40 GMT
>You don't think they should maybe give you more to do, then?

Five years later, Paul *still* hasn't finished Half-Life. Now, that's
value for money. :)

-----
Anders "Roshin" Simonsson
http://hemsida.semera.se/xav2557

"Beware the past. Fight the present. Fear the future."
Nick - 26 Mar 2004 10:25 GMT
> >You don't think they should maybe give you more to do, then?
>
> Five years later, Paul *still* hasn't finished Half-Life. Now, that's
> value for money. :)

You know what, I've played all the mods, OpFor, BlueShift (BS?) Azure Sheep, dozens of "amature"
ones (although some have been seriously good) and yet I never actually got right to the end of HL. I
got fed up with all that Xen nonsense. I really enjoy the bits where you fight other humans, but I
get fed up with the alien bits really. Dunno why... speaking of which, has anyone ever come across a
mod that doesn't include any aliens at all - just soldiers etc? I'd enjoy that, pobly.
Paul Catley - 26 Mar 2004 20:35 GMT
> > Five years later, Paul *still* hasn't finished Half-Life. Now, that's
> > value for money. :)
>
> You know what, I've played all the mods, OpFor, BlueShift (BS?) Azure Sheep,
> dozens of "amature" ones (although some have been seriously good) and yet
> I never actually got right to the end of HL.

Er... yes, me too.  That's right, I spent all my time playing those mods, yup.

What are mods again?

--
Paul
Jan Gruetz - 25 Mar 2004 19:06 GMT
rofl! you use a MX card and complain about sluggish games?
you can`t be serious!

Jan
Fishy_stink_ho - 26 Mar 2004 04:26 GMT
He's right.  Your card is not the best.  My ti 4200 has been great.  I've
got the gainward version, factory designed for overclocking.  The rest of
your specs seem ok.  This AMD 1900 w/512 runs the demo @ very high fairly
well.  If I were buying today, I'd probably look at at least a radeon 9700.
You'll probably be fine with a video card update.  Stop whining, new
hardware is FUN!  :)

> rofl! you use a MX card and complain about sluggish games?
> you can`t be serious!
>
> Jan
reborn rolla - 26 Mar 2004 07:29 GMT
> He's right.  Your card is not the best.  My ti 4200 has been great.  I've
> got the gainward version, factory designed for overclocking.  The rest of
> your specs seem ok.  This AMD 1900 w/512 runs the demo @ very high fairly
> well.  If I were buying today, I'd probably look at at least a radeon 9700.
> You'll probably be fine with a video card update.  Stop whining, new
> hardware is FUN!  :)

As a matter of fact I am in the market for a new video card. Looks like my
64mb AGP card is getting oldschool. But am going to bypass the obvious next
step(128mb) and go for the ultimate 256! Then will install it while naked on
the kitchen floor so as not to fry the motherboard.
Anders Simonsson - 26 Mar 2004 08:38 GMT
>But am going to bypass the obvious next
>step(128mb) and go for the ultimate 256! Then will install it while naked on
>the kitchen floor so as not to fry the motherboard.

Any troll-food in the fridge by any chance..?

-----
Anders "Roshin" Simonsson
http://hemsida.semera.se/xav2557

"Beware the past. Fight the present. Fear the future."
reborn rolla - 26 Mar 2004 09:19 GMT
> >But am going to bypass the obvious next
> >step(128mb) and go for the ultimate 256! Then will install it while naked on
> >the kitchen floor so as not to fry the motherboard.
>
> Any troll-food in the fridge by any chance..?

No but there is lotsa meat. Steaks and lamb.
Mary Erickson - 27 Mar 2004 22:43 GMT
Rolla, you obviously play half life alot........could you help me, a first
time player, with a problem I'm having?  I am stuck in one of the levels,
and can't get beyond it.....and don't know where to go for help........the
web walk thru just tells me to "go out the window, around the building on
the ledge, and jump up to the ladder..........I can NOT get to this stupid
ladder..........I am in the Surface Tension level.
thanks for any help.....
Mary E
Len - 27 Mar 2004 23:13 GMT
You have to release the jump key (space-bar is the default) before you
hit the ladder.  If the key is still pressed when you hit it, you'll
bounce off.  Enjoy the rest of this level--I think it's the best one
in the game.

Len

>....I can NOT get to this stupid ladder..........I am in the Surface Tension level.
>thanks for any help.....
>Mary E
reborn rolla - 27 Mar 2004 23:49 GMT
> You have to release the jump key (space-bar is the default) before you
> hit the ladder.  If the key is still pressed when you hit it, you'll
> bounce off.  Enjoy the rest of this level--I think it's the best one
> in the game.
>
> Len

And hold down the left ctrl key also while jumping.
Ben Phung - 28 Mar 2004 22:41 GMT
but how do u survive. its so hard trying to fight those stupid monster
without much ammo and everything. i died so easily when i went down
that escalator and a whole mess of stupid beasts were surrounding me.
Strider - 28 Mar 2004 23:35 GMT
Ben Phung proclaimed...

> but how do u survive. its so hard trying to fight those stupid monster
> without much ammo and everything. i died so easily when i went down
> that escalator and a whole mess of stupid beasts were surrounding me.

Well you can't spray and prey, I try and trigger then fall back to a
bottle neck.

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reborn rolla - 30 Mar 2004 05:11 GMT
> Ben Phung proclaimed...
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Well you can't spray and prey, I try and trigger then fall back to a
> bottle neck.

The great thing about the game is when you die, you spawn at or near where
you died. Not many games have that feature. Once you master the art of
quicksaving versus health and luck, the game gets easier.

I have played it through about ten times in the last year. And now hardly
ever drop below 50 health. The first time is another story!
 
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