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Game Forum / Action Games / Grand Theft Auto / August 2007ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4 DELAY...
Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he believes difficulties porting the game to the PlayStation 3 are to blame and that the company's new green light policy appears to be a failure. "We think it is likely," said Pachter, "that the Rockstar team had difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and failed to recognize how far away from completion the game truly was until recently." "We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to Sony that it would not favor competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox 360 version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version," he continued, "and believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of the Xbox 360 version." The delay has caused somewhat of a valuation quandary for Pachter, as he adds "we are unprepared to predict what Take-Two management can truly deliver until we see some positive results." "We think that new management is doing many things right," he says, "but believe that some structural obstacles remain. The company has begun an initiative to improve the green light process for new projects, but given the delays of Manhunt and GTA, its process for monitoring projects under development appears to be a failure." Pachter concludes, "Until we see evidence of better controls over work in process and greater diligence in project selection, we are not confident that the company will gain market share in future years." > Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled > badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > process and greater diligence in project selection, we are not confident > that the company will gain market share in future years." Wow, that is pure genius. That is almost as intelligent as the analysts who claim that the problem is fitting the vast GTAIV world on the memory strapped DVD for the 360 since they can't count on a HDD being standard. Dumb fanboys, I was waiting for some dumb a.s to post something like this but I would have figured it would have been Jonah or AirRaid. Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report that was posted on the game developer magazine website. Is it the sony fanboy in you that can't stand to hear the reality of the situtation with the ps3? You're a stupid moron and your yankees are going to miss the playoffs so you must be doubly annoyed. I own a Ps3 you asshat but even I know that the machine is f.cked up and is obviously the cause of the delay for GTA4, so stop complaining and get a f.cking clue. >> Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled >> badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Dumb fanboys, I was waiting for some dumb a.s to post something like this > but I would have figured it would have been Jonah or AirRaid. In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic <cagclassics@nospamacradeunits.net> wrote: > Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report that > was posted on the game developer magazine website. Analyst is the only job I know of where you are literally paid to pull stuff out of your a.s, present it as "fact" and face zero repercussions when proven wrong or inaccurate (which is most of the time.)  SignatureIt's not broken. It's...advanced. > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic <cagclass...@nospamacradeunits.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > It's not broken. It's...advanced. Well, the game was delayed for a reason. I appreciated the link. There are been quite a few comments from developers alluring to and even outright stating the PS3 is a much more difficult system to program for than the XBox 360. Those comments generally are criticism of Sony's supplied API's (a programming library the vendor gives to third- party developers, used to create games). Analyst who just pull stuff out of their a.s generally don't last very long. I have friends who are Business Analyst who work very hard at what they do so I take a bit of offense to your comment. Every time they make a statement on the record, they put their a.s on the line. I don't know anything about this analyst and the original poster did not provide a link to even back their claim (please do), but if this is true it is important to note and I imagine it's rooted in some factual data about problems Rockstar is encountering. I suspect Rockstar realizes how that up to this point the PS3 screenshots of cross platform titles are being scruntinized for being less detailed than their XBox 360 counterparts and Rockstar, being in bed with Sony all these years (cheap shot, deal with it) knows that Sony's PlayStation brand has helped them build their little empire. They are showing some respect and making sure the game looks as good on PS3, which again is supposedly a rather difficult task, because of Sony's first gen API's. It's possible they are working directly with Sony to make the PS3 version stand out above the XBox 360 version... If they can do that, Kudos. > > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic <cagclass...@nospamacradeunits.net> wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > outright stating the PS3 is a much more difficult system to program > for than the XBox 360. the same old bollocks from you as usual. SignaturePaul (We won't die of devotion) ------------------------------------------------------- Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/ >> > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic <cagclass...@nospamacradeunits.net> wrote: >> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >the same old bollocks from you as usual. well not really. some consoles just are harder to get your head round as a programmer, apparently. it was the same back in the 90s when developers favoured the original playstation over the sega saturn due to it's sompler and easier to use hardware architecture. (the saturn had 2 cpu's iirc) Signaturegamertag: Chrisflynnuk http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb 360, DS, PS2 and Saturn Games For Auction. > >> > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic <cagclass...@nospamacradeunits.net> wrote: > >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > playstation over the sega saturn due to it's sompler and easier to use > hardware architecture. (the saturn had 2 cpu's iirc) yes, but RMZ needs no excuse to have a dig at sony. SignaturePaul (We won't die of devotion) ------------------------------------------------------- Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/ >> > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic >> > <cagclass...@nospamacradeunits.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > the same old bollocks from you as usual. I love how the subject leads the reader to believe there was more than one analyst saying this. From what Android was saying, before the game was even delayed, was that what he saw of the xbox version needed ALOT of work. So i doubt all the fault can possibly fall on the PS3 version if we've never even SEEN the PS3 version. For all we know maybe GTA IV is just too ambitious to be done right on the 360 hardware. Hey, that answer is just as valid as placing blame squarely on the PS3. > I love how the subject leads the reader to believe there was more than one > analyst saying this. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > on the 360 hardware. Hey, that answer is just as valid as placing blame > squarely on the PS3. I would think the way San Andreas worked this thing will kill the 360 as soon as it's put in the drive :O) SignaturePaul (We won't die of devotion) ------------------------------------------------------- Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/ >> I love how the subject leads the reader to believe there was more than one >> analyst saying this. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I would think the way San Andreas worked this thing will kill the 360 >as soon as it's put in the drive :O) ah yes, SA killed many a slimline ps2 when it launched. Signaturegamertag: Chrisflynnuk http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb 360, DS, PS2 and Saturn Games For Auction. >>> I love how the subject leads the reader to believe there was more than >>> one [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > ah yes, SA killed many a slimline ps2 when it launched. Many?? Never heard of it. Then again, i still have my Limited edition silver PS2. I was never a fan of the slimline. >>>> I love how the subject leads the reader to believe there was more than >>>> one [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Many?? Never heard of it. Then again, i still have my Limited edition >silver PS2. I was never a fan of the slimline. i worked in a games shop at the time. we had a lot of early version slimlines come back (it launched at roughly the same time as SA over here) and just due to the amount of stress SA placed on the hardware, it caused overheating and fatal crashes. they seemed to have sorted it by the 2nd or 3rd revision of the hardware though, but there were massive shortages of stock in the run up to christmas 2004 while they tried to sort it out. Signaturegamertag: Chrisflynnuk http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb 360, DS, PS2 and Saturn Games For Auction. > >> I love how the subject leads the reader to believe there was more than one > >> analyst saying this. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > ah yes, SA killed many a slimline ps2 when it launched. It was actually my old one that bit the dust, and my nephew's old stylke but quite new. It also kicked my first xbox into touch along with Forza SignaturePaul (We won't die of devotion) ------------------------------------------------------- Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/ > I would think the way San Andreas worked this thing will kill the 360 > as soon as it's put in the drive :O) Assuming the drive doesn't kill (scratch) the disc first, of course. Signature"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George W. Bush [August 5th, 2004] >> I would think the way San Andreas worked this thing will kill the 360 >> as soon as it's put in the drive :O) > >Assuming the drive doesn't kill (scratch) the disc first, of course. well as long as the idiot owner doesnt shake the thing about like a maraca whilst playing, i cant see that being an issue! Signaturegamertag: Chrisflynnuk http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb 360, DS, PS2 and Saturn Games For Auction. > >> I would think the way San Andreas worked this thing will kill the 360 > >> as soon as it's put in the drive :O) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > well as long as the idiot owner doesnt shake the thing about like a > maraca whilst playing, i cant see that being an issue! Kids and games machines. They seem to think controllers are made out of pressed steel. SignaturePaul (We won't die of devotion) ------------------------------------------------------- Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/ > > I would think the way San Andreas worked this thing will kill the 360 > > as soon as it's put in the drive :O) > > Assuming the drive doesn't kill (scratch) the disc first, of course. :O) SignaturePaul (We won't die of devotion) ------------------------------------------------------- Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/ Or it could be they can't get it to run on the 360 Core: http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=111775 Of course that's just the VP at Rockstar saying it, not some random analyst from "Wedbush Morgan." He's certainly not nearly as credible or informed. -- Bill Cable - Steelers Fan & Star Wars Collector http://CreatureCantina.com <----- funny! cable@creaturecantina.com > Or it could be they can't get it to run on the 360 Core: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > analyst from "Wedbush Morgan." He's certainly not nearly as credible > or informed. we always knew that lack of an HDD on their core unit would come into play eventually. Shame that both consoles are now dealing with the results of a very poor MS decision. > Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report that > was posted on the game developer magazine website. > Is it the sony fanboy in you that can't stand to hear the reality of the > situtation with the ps3? You're a stupid moron and your yankees are going > to miss the playoffs so you must be doubly annoyed. 1) Only a dumb a.s would think that SPECULATION is worthy of cross-posting as if it were anything substantiated "We think it is likely," said Pachter, "that the Rockstar team had difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3". There is not one thing mentioned in this whole post that involves fact. 2) We believe in a little thing called links around here so we can see the source of the crap. Where is your's and who the hell is Michael Pachter? Does Wedbush Morgan have anything to do with video games at all? Are they credible when it comes to this? > I own a Ps3 you asshat but even I know that the machine is f.cked up and > is obviously the cause of the delay for GTA4, so stop complaining and get > a f.cking clue. 3) Well I wasn't dumb enough to buy a PS3 for $599 just to play resistance so who is the "Asshat"? I was planning on purchasing GTAIV on my never been broken RROD-less Xbox 360. 4) What is the reality of the PS3 situation since you seem so well-versed? I wouldn't know since I don't own one. 5) Ooh, a Yankee insult. Probably coming from an idiot who has never played a sport in his life. Do you even watch baseball? Can you name 15 Major League stadiums without going on Google. If you want to turn this into a baseball debate, we can take it to whatever newsgroup supports your team, if they even have one. >>> Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled >>> badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> Dumb fanboys, I was waiting for some dumb a.s to post something like this >> but I would have figured it would have been Jonah or AirRaid. > 5) Ooh, a Yankee insult. Probably coming from an idiot who has never > played > a sport in his life. Do you even watch baseball? Can you name 15 Major > League stadiums without going on Google. If you want to turn this into a > baseball debate, we can take it to whatever newsgroup supports your team, > if they even have one. I quit watching baseball after those pansies went on strike ages ago. It was a real wake-up call. Anyone who stands around in a grassy field, wearing tight pants, chewing tobacco, and wearing a glove on one hand is not playing a sport. And needing steroids to do all that just degrades the "sport" further. Keep your pathetic arguements off AGGTA please. This forum has always held to higher standards than what you are bringing here. "GMpartsguy" <kb1cih@cPoImScSaOsFtF.net> wrote in message > ...And needing > steroids to do all that just degrades the "sport" further. Touch 'em! Touch 'em or die! ;o) > Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report that > was posted on the game developer magazine website. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > obviously the cause of the delay for GTA4, so stop complaining and get a > f.cking clue. Actually, the demo they showed us at E3 (if you can call it tha) was awful and showed a game not close to being finished...and that was from the Xbox 360 version, not the PS3 version. Sure, Rockstar might be having even more difficulties with the PS3 version, but frankly I think both systems are giving them trouble. Everyone has been quick to blame the PS3 for the delay of GTA IV, but it will certainly be ironic if, when the two versions come out, the PS3 version ends up better than the 360 version. > >> Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled > >> badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Dumb fanboys, I was waiting for some dumb a.s to post something like this > > but I would have figured it would have been Jonah or AirRaid. > Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report that > was posted on the game developer magazine website. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > is obviously the cause of the delay for GTA4, so stop complaining and get > a f.cking clue. Quit being a cheese-eating high school boy, and cross-posting (and in caps) this useless arguement into AGGTA. Pointing out the obvious and crying about baseball has no place in this forum. Use your head, not the other's > Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled > badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > process and greater diligence in project selection, we are not confident > that the company will gain market share in future years." > Use your head, not the other's Confucius? >> Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled >> badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> process and greater diligence in project selection, we are not confident >> that the company will gain market share in future years." On Aug 3, 1:22 pm, "ThatsClassic" <cagclass...@NOSPAMacradeunits.net> wrote: > Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled > badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > process and greater diligence in project selection, we are not confident > that the company will gain market share in future years." I think they key word here is 'porting', i.e. they had a code done for Xbox360 and I guess they thought it'd be an easy thing to port it to the PS3... Same thing probably would have happened the other way around. The truth is, we're looking at the first generations of games for the PS3, where companies haven't created a solid base of middle- ware that alleviates just this same problem. For everyone of these articles there is one of these GTA IV delayed to make MS give in? As most have already heard, GTA IV has been delayed till Q2 2008. Speculation is running all over the internet as to the exact reason for this delay. As far as gamers knew, everything was fine at E3 and on track for a big October launch. As reported earlier this week, XF had learned about certain future titles requiring the 360 HDD for data caching, but hadn't received any specifics on which games and when this would happen. Yesterday, when XF got word of GTA IV being delayed, we had to call our source. Apparently Rockstar wants GTA IV to give a seamless experience with load times limited as much as possible and void of loading whenever possible. This requires a HDD according to our source. MS, while allowing certain titles (MMOs & soccer managers) to use the HDD already and reportedly allowing titles to do it in the future, did not want to segregate the 360 core users this early. Everything our source said made sense when we looked at what Shane Kim said in a recent interview with GamePro.com: There was a rumor that Grand Theft Auto IV is not going to be compatible with the Core system because the game may require a hard drive. Is incompatibility with the Core model something Microsoft can't allow, or are you flexible on issues like this? SK: No, we want to support all of the Xbox 360s, otherwise it becomes very confusing. We really want to avoid that as much as possible. So what would you say if Rockstar Games demanded you have a hard drive if you want to play GTAIV on the Xbox 360? SK: We get to make the call on who gets published on our platform...[inaudible] we'd push back on any publisher saying things like that. If everything we're being told is true, it's a good and bad thing. It means developers really do want to use the 360 to it's full potential and make better games for you and I. It also means MS may very well limit what 360 owners get to play because they want to drag their feet on the HDD announcement till the Cores are completely off the shelves. Hopefully, someone will get this fixed soon so we can get back to just playing games. > For everyone of these articles there is one of these > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > announcement till the Cores are completely off the shelves. Hopefully, > someone will get this fixed soon so we can get back to just playing games. Well written post... This sounds as legit as any other speculation.... Does anyone really think the relationship between Microsoft and Rockstar is a healthy one? It seems to be more like Rockstar the the expensive whore in the situation, only because they seem to dislike Microsoft so much yet when the check book comes out.. you get the idea. Does anyone else sense this? Even if that's not the case and Microsoft is behind this delay, it's example of how they cleverly treat every move with their competition like a chess game. With Halo 3 and other titles, it would seem the PS3 stands a bit more to loose with the GTA IV not being available in 2007. Just because PS3 needs all the good games it can get and GTA IV is a game everyone is looking forward to, it's a game that would move would be PS2 owners to PS3, but by buying more time (this is all theoretical of course, assuming it is Microsoft causing the delay). by buying more time, Microsoft gets to put Halo 3 out there, they get to position their new prices, they get to dangle a few more carrots and those PS2 owners are going to look and see that down the road they can get a GTA IV for the 360. If this where true, would it help them... of course it would. >> For everyone of these articles there is one of these >> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > Microsoft so much yet when the check book comes out.. you get the > idea. Does anyone else sense this? Absolutely. With the money Rockstar has lost due to Hot Coffee and issues like that, it would only make sense that they would think financially over anything else. > Even if that's not the case and Microsoft is behind this delay, it's > example of how they cleverly treat every move with their competition [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > If this where true, would it help them... of course it would. I don't think so. The PS3 isn't starved for good games, it is starved for good exclusives. No one is going to want to pay for something that they can play for cheaper and have the same experience on another console. I think it hurts both consoles equally until Sony gets the whole sales momentum going. Right now, they are in the budding stage of really picking up so their installed base isn't really big enough for this to have a tremendous effect. As I said before, GTAIV is not a system seller the way the 1st 2 games were. It is more a game that an overwhelming majority of people were going to pick up who already had the system. People buy systems for games they can't play on other systems. On Aug 3, 10:22 am, "ThatsClassic" <cagclass...@NOSPAMacradeunits.net> wrote: > "We think it is likely," said Pachter, "that the Rockstar team had > difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and > failed to recognize how far away from completion the game truly was until > recently." Problem is, Pachter's an idiot: http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2007/08/01/pachter-predicts-hd-wii/ "He sees the falling costs of graphics processors and rising public demand for high definition possibly leading Nintendo to release a Wii that can output in HD in "two to three years." http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6441&Itemid=59 ""We believe that there are presently 2 - 3 million 60GB PS3s produced and not yet sold, and expect the entire supply to be diverted to the US to honor the new lower price point." - Jordan > On Aug 3, 10:22 am, "ThatsClassic" <cagclass...@NOSPAMacradeunits.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > - Jordan LOL. Well at least we know that would ensure us of 60GB PS3s for the forseeable future. |
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