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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / December 2003PoI flagging raid
Right, group they said and I have, a little. Now I am diving in the deep end tomorrow and going on the above as part of a multi-guild raid. As a L55 druid, what should I know and what am I expected to be doing? I'd guess at damage shields and snares/roots and backup heals. I do not have any special gear, I do have wis at 254 but all other resists are merely 40 to 50. Am I an automatic suicide case :) Oh and I've tried to find some advice/info on the web and have come up with very little - not even a map, although I think that is due to the layout of PoI. Anyone point me at any resources? Thanks in advance.  SignatureMalcolm > Right, group they said and I have, a little. Now I am diving in the > deep end tomorrow and going on the above as part of a multi-guild raid. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks in advance Are you talking about Behemoth? Those resists may be an issue if you're anywhere near the 'main' fight. You'll go down quick. However, you very likely could be a healer on one of the CC teams, in which case it won't be nearly as critical. But, before I blather on, I figure I'll let you specify which PoI event you're after. There's a few there often called 'flagging'. -- Darkensolo - 64th Epic Dwarven Cleric Lizsolo Spiritmaster - 61st Epic Barbie BeastLord Proud members of "Fizzle Fiends" on Rodcet Nife > > Right, group they said and I have, a little. Now I am diving in the > > deep end tomorrow and going on the above as part of a multi-guild raid. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > > Thanks in advance Upon further reflection: > Are you talking about Behemoth? Those resists may be an issue if > you're anywhere near the 'main' fight. scratch "may be" and replace with "will be" > You'll go down quick. > However, you very likely could be a healer on one of the CC teams, in > which case it won't be nearly as critical. Just realized you're 55 so I'm not sure you'll be a CC team healer or not - depends on your guild(s) I guess. But you'd still provide value on a CC team with root and spikes and patch heals I'd venture. > But, before I blather on, I figure I'll let you specify which PoI > event you're after. There's a few there often called 'flagging'. -- Darkensolo - 64th Epic Dwarven Cleric Lizsolo Spiritmaster - 61st Epic Barbie BeastLord Proud members of "Fizzle Fiends" on Rodcet Nife From the shadows, the mysterious Darkensolo <kasten@pobox.com> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered: >> > Right, group they said and I have, a little. Now I am diving in the >> > deep end tomorrow and going on the above as part of a multi-guild raid. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >scratch "may be" and replace with "will be" It doesn't matter, if this druid is inside AE range he's going to get wasted. He'll never get them high enough at his level for it to matter. IIRC druids at that level don't have any heal better than sheal or chloroblast. That makes them more or less useless in a healing role against Behemoth's AEs. Not sure how you do MB but we generally just leave enchanters after the initial spider killing, which barely needs healing at all. Think this is a raid where a 55 druid would more or less be coming along for the flag and doing little else. >Think this is a raid where a 55 druid would more or less be coming >along for the flag and doing little else. That's pretty much the idea, but of course I'd like to help out if I can. Then again my help could simply be staying out of the way and keeping my mouth shut :) SignatureMalcolm >> Right, group they said and I have, a little. Now I am diving in the >> deep end tomorrow and going on the above as part of a multi-guild raid. <Snip> >Are you talking about Behemoth? No idea, sorry. It's a flagging raid and I think it is for the factory. >Those resists may be an issue if >you're anywhere near the 'main' fight. You'll go down quick. I thought as much :) >However, you very likely could be a healer on one of the CC teams, in >which case it won't be nearly as critical. Hmmm, well at least I have 30% xp so won't lose a level and there is a graveyard :) SignatureMalcolm >>Are you talking about Behemoth? > >No idea, sorry. It's a flagging raid and I think it is for the factory. Mmm. This sounds more like a Xanamech raid which gives you the flag to get *into* the Factory. This is a good bit more straightforward than Behemoth other than the issues you can have with the Gnome you need to escort (F8 muppets and trigger happy Enchanters mostly). Basically, you spawn a Gnome and follow him around PoI killing the mobs that get in his way, eventually Xanamech spawns whom you kill for the flag to get into the Factory and some decent loot. Xanamech is a pussycat compared to the Behemoth. Signature[65 Forest Stalker] Schadenfreude (Human) [65 Prophet] Spetsnas (Iksar) Bristlebane server >>>Are you talking about Behemoth? >> >>No idea, sorry. It's a flagging raid and I think it is for the factory. > >Mmm. This sounds more like a Xanamech raid which gives you the flag >to get *into* the Factory. Yup, this is it. Must be as I can't get into the factory, so I am guessing that this comes first before the Behemoth raid. >This is a good bit more straightforward than Behemoth other than the >issues you can have with the Gnome you need to escort (F8 muppets and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >for the flag to get into the Factory and some decent loot. Xanamech >is a pussycat compared to the Behemoth. Sounds a little better! I am in it for the flag and for the experience of a raid, all be it a simple one. I don't forsee any loot and me meeting up :) SignatureMalcolm From the shadows, the mysterious Malcolm Smith <malcolm@tringhenge.co.uk> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered: >>>>Are you talking about Behemoth? >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Yup, this is it. Must be as I can't get into the factory, so I am >guessing that this comes first before the Behemoth raid. Only one person on the raid needs a key from Xanamech. He's not a flag mob. >Right, group they said and I have, a little. Now I am diving in the >deep end tomorrow and going on the above as part of a multi-guild raid. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >with very little - not even a map, although I think that is due to the >layout of PoI. Anyone point me at any resources? This generally involves a few groups controlling the surrounding mobs while the main core of the raid attempts to kill the Behemoth. At 55 you'll be nothing but lag against Behemoth so I suggest you offer to be (backup perhaps) healer on one of the crowd control groups. The layout of the PoI Factory can be confusing so make sure you follow whoever in your group knows the way to your crowd control point - you probably don't want to end up with the main raid. If the raid is a success then you'll need to be relieved by someone who already has the flag so you can go hail the projection, again make sure your group knows you NEED the flag, it's possible they may all have it already. Behemoth is pretty much a case of killing him before the AoEs tear your raid apart; it should be pretty clear within ten seconds whether or not you're going to win. Signature[65 Forest Stalker] Schadenfreude (Human) [65 Prophet] Spetsnas (Iksar) Bristlebane server <Snip> >>Oh and I've tried to find some advice/info on the web and have come up >>with very little - not even a map, although I think that is due to the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >offer to be (backup perhaps) healer on one of the crowd control >groups. Ok. I understand the raid leader to be 'up to speed' on this little trip, so hopefully they will tell me where go. Politely of course :) >The layout of the PoI Factory can be confusing so make sure >you follow whoever in your group knows the way to your crowd control >point - you probably don't want to end up with the main raid. Er, no! With regard to mana regen, is it the sort of place where use of a mount is OK or would that just get in the way? I am thinking that sitting is going to be a baaaaad idea. >If the raid is a success then you'll need to be relieved by someone >who already has the flag so you can go hail the projection, again make >sure your group knows you NEED the flag, it's possible they may all >have it already. I think most of my guild is going along for the flag, we are *not* a high level raid group at all. >Behemoth is pretty much a case of killing him before the AoEs tear >your raid apart; it should be pretty clear within ten seconds whether >or not you're going to win. OK. What is the accepted protocol for casting gate (selfish!) Or succor? Would this be called by group or raid leader or just not bothered with? Thanks to you all for your comments btw :) SignatureMalcolm > Ok. I understand the raid leader to be 'up to speed' on this little > trip, so hopefully they will tell me where go. Politely of course :) While you can hope your raid leader is up to speed, knowing the route and details yourself cannot hurt, particularly if you happen to lag out or crash to desktop or something. Keeping your mouth shut about what you know unless the raid leader starts asking questions is a good idea in general, though, on the "too many cooks spoil the broth" plan >> The layout of the PoI Factory can be confusing so make sure >> you follow whoever in your group knows the way to your crowd control >> point - you probably don't want to end up with the main raid. Since you are flagging to get in to the factory, ignore this part. > Er, no! With regard to mana regen, is it the sort of place where use of > a mount is OK or would that just get in the way? I am thinking that > sitting is going to be a baaaaad idea. Mount is a good idea. In fact a mount is almost always a good idea in any outdoor situation, which most POP zones are. If it is getting in the way, get a shrink or two. Sitting bad, mana regen good = mount. >> If the raid is a success then you'll need to be relieved by someone >> who already has the flag so you can go hail the projection, again make >> sure your group knows you NEED the flag, it's possible they may all >> have it already. Ignore this. Live to the end or get a rez after and you'll get flagged, your mission doesn't involve the whole spider teams thing. > I think most of my guild is going along for the flag, we are *not* a > high level raid group at all. > >> Behemoth is pretty much a case of killing him before the AoEs tear >> your raid apart; it should be pretty clear within ten seconds whether >> or not you're going to win. Xanamech is a more or less standard dragon fight, again, surviving the AoE's and tearing him down fast before your damage forces evaporate is the key. However, before you get to him, you trigger a gnome to take a walk, thru hostile forces lining the passages of the zone. He's fairly fragile and quite prepared to fight to the death, you can't let him do that, so you need to do a -lot- of killing, keeping his path clear. Often raids detail someone to mez him or to engage him in melee (without hitting him back), then mem blur or atone him to get him moving again. This can backfire, however, as he's pretty touchy about his route and can forget that he's done it right, go back and start over. If your force can handle it, some raids let him walk at his own pace the whole way to avoid this. Either way, this means the raid force will be fighting half a dozen mobs at a time, working furiously on many relatively easy fights, there's apt to be little coordination involved. As a druid, nuke, heal, whatever you like... pretty much same as everyone else; do your best to keep everyone in your group alive (probably not hard) and kill the mobs fast (also not hard, if you've exped at the POI zone line you've met about every mob you'll see, this is just lots more of the same. When you get to the dragon there will be a buff and rest up break probably, then you'll engage. Dragon has two AoE, one of them is directional, if you can stay out of his front arc it won't hit you, the other you can't really avoid. MT needs to keep Xanamech's attention so most of the raid can stay behind the mob, including nukers and healers. Amusingly, one of his AoE's is a powerful DOT and snare, so once you get hit, running behind the dragon if he spins in place is particularly difficult. This aside, the gnome who brought you here must stay alive if you want to get flagged, killing the dragon but losing the gnome won't do it. This means that keeping the dragon from breathing on the gnome is highly important, all the more reason to keep the dragon facing the MT (who is opposite the gnome) > OK. What is the accepted protocol for casting gate (selfish!) Or > succor? Would this be called by group or raid leader or just not > bothered with? As a general rule in raids, gating and succor are out. Your survival is not important. Raid success is all that matters. Expect 96% rez, which means you can get the lost exp back in very short time, heck, even the paltry exp you get off a raid is usually enough to make up for this. Gate and succor each take spell slots. Its hard to imagine you can't think of 8 spells you'd like to have memmed (I'd like 10 or 12 slots!). Further, you might accidentally cast one of them when its not appropriate, taking yourself or your whole group (or part of your group if you are seperated) out of the raid force. Even when it is appropriate, when your raid is clearly losing, its generally considered bad form to survive a wipe by running out on your teammates (although, situationally it can be beneficial, if it means getting a still buffed up and ready to go group out alive and ready to get back to the wiped bodies) In POI in particular, its worse than in many places; there is no COTH allowed in the zone, so you can't get back to the raid force without killing your way across most of the zone, which is of course stuffed with see invis unmezzable unlullable mobs. And if you live but the raid suceeds anyway, you won't be able to get back to the raid in order to get your flag. Dead, they can just rez you. If the raid wipes, there won't be a nasty CR, just wait a few minutes and the bodies will pop up in the graveyard. You'll be eagerly courted for your porting ability after the raid is over, without you or wizards, the melee are going to have to fight their way all the way back out. Don't mem gate, succor, or port till you've got your flag. Splendid One, 58 Gnomage, Firiona Vie <big snip of excellent advice> >As a general rule in raids, gating and succor are out. Your survival >is not important. Raid success is all that matters. Expect 96% rez, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Gate and succor each take spell slots. Its hard to imagine you can't >think of 8 spells you'd like to have memmed (I'd like 10 or 12 slots!). I was thinking 14 would generally be good :) >Further, you might accidentally cast one of them when its not >appropriate, taking yourself or your whole group (or part of your group >if you are seperated) out of the raid force. Good point. <Snip> >In POI in particular, its worse than in many places; there is no COTH >allowed in the zone, so you can't get back to the raid force without [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >there won't be a nasty CR, just wait a few minutes and the bodies will >pop up in the graveyard. Got it. >You'll be eagerly courted for your porting ability after the raid is >over, without you or wizards, the melee are going to have to fight >their way all the way back out. Don't mem gate, succor, or port till >you've got your flag. Lance, many thanks for some excellent advice. I am beginning to feel like I may actually enjoy this. SignatureMalcolm >>You'll be eagerly courted for your porting ability after the raid is >>over, without you or wizards, the melee are going to have to fight [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Lance, many thanks for some excellent advice. I am beginning to feel > like I may actually enjoy this. We took 20 odd people in to kill Xanamech a few sundays ago. No wizard and only 1 druid in the raid. Left 4 melee without a ride out. So we ran :) SignatureArch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866 Thanks for all the advice. Raid was a bit of a non-starter for me. 1 death, no rez, no flag. Made it inside the locked doors, got summoned back out, died. Could not get rez, large trains around both door and zone. Gave up. Summation, a disorganised mess. Raid leader tried hard, but too many chefs in the kitchen! Saw leadership change twice whilst trying for rez! Ah well, it was an experience but not one I will repeat. I hope they succeeded, but I am somewhat doubtful! SignatureMalcolm From the shadows, the mysterious Malcolm Smith <malcolm@tringhenge.co.uk> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered: >Thanks for all the advice. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I hope they succeeded, but I am somewhat doubtful! People were dying to the PoI *yard trash*??? Forget about behemoth. That raid would have had trouble beating the Ghoul Lord in Guk. >From the shadows, the mysterious Malcolm Smith ><malcolm@tringhenge.co.uk> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >People were dying to the PoI *yard trash*??? Yup, the stuff outside the door. It was very disorganised to my mind. The group I was in did not talk to each other. I told them this was my first raid and that I was happy to listen to any and all advice, instructions etc. Nothing. I had a window for the raid channel, a window for a 'chat' channel which was called for everyone to join and my group channel. I found there to be too much to read from various people to keep up with instructions, so obviously I needed to filter something/somehow but heaven knows what. All groups where numbered, but know idea why as no specific instructions were given. To start, from zone in, a simple 'Right, everyone zone' was called. Now, as a newbie to this that said to me that we were going to hit some form of 'zone line' again. No, just move along and up to the set of doors. In one big bloody mess. I tried to keep with my group leader, thinking that was sensible. Next thing I know we are dealing with some mobs at bottom of ramp to door. Seemed OK, I /assist MT just for something to do! I mean, I was buffed to high heaven (only two empty slots iirc) so why not do something. Next command was move to door, did that, door opened so I went in. Stood for perhaps 30s thinking 'what next'. Then saw a call for people back outside to deal with some mobs - this is where Mr Cockup started to play. Being a helpful type and seeing few people moving to help, I went to help. Sure enough several big mechanoid things beating on people. Targeted one and started nuking for all a poor druid can! Mob went down, so did the other *I could see*. Went back in as door was closing. Summoned outside by another mob I had not seen nor had I nuked. Thump, thump, cast hea.......dead. From here on it was just chaos. Looking back on things this morning, having 'calmed down', what I should have done was just sat inside, kept mouth shut and simply tagged along for the flag. Selfish, what quite a few seemed to be doing (I saw one comment later of 'All rangers move to xx and get groups sorted else you will be considered as just tagging along for a flag' followed by a comment, not from a ranger' of 'There are people who ARE just here for flag') but not my style. I like to help out towards the objective. Ho hum, I shall be interested to see what is in guild chat when I log in today :) >Forget about behemoth. That raid would have had trouble beating the >Ghoul Lord in Guk. I'll take your word for it. First and last raid for me. I will just potter along as a solo druid, grouping with the odd friend/guildee when bored and do my own thing. Slow, yes. Fun, has been so far. Will I get to L65, maybe who knows. Change of action for today, think I will go do some baking, just to raise skill really and for something peaceful to do :) SignatureMalcolm > I'll take your word for it. First and last raid for me. I will just > potter along as a solo druid, grouping with the odd friend/guildee when > bored and do my own thing. Slow, yes. Fun, has been so far. Will I > get to L65, maybe who knows. The behemoth is a *hard* raid. its just insane to do a pickup raid with level 55's on it on their first raid. Nutty ;) > Change of action for today, think I will go do some baking, just to > raise skill really and for something peaceful to do :) Well, sure. But raiding can be fun. I would suggest trying to find something much smaller scale with people you already know and like - if you're playing to enjoy yourself and dont care about flags, who cares, right? ;) See if you can go along on a nice traditional old world raid to get a feel for how everythings hangs together. Maybe city of mist for Jade Reavers, or if you're feeling adventurous the plane of hate. These are quite challenging enough for your first raid experiences to be fun without that total dispiriting anarchy of 'OMG what the hell just happened?' Biggest thing; go with folks who are going to have fun, who aren't terribly snappy, and who already like you ;) Matt (oooh, or the hole, that can be fun too ;) ) >> I'll take your word for it. First and last raid for me. I will just >> potter along as a solo druid, grouping with the odd friend/guildee when [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The behemoth is a *hard* raid. its just insane to do a pickup raid with >level 55's on it on their first raid. Nutty ;) Indeed, but this was the easier raid :( >> Change of action for today, think I will go do some baking, just to >> raise skill really and for something peaceful to do :) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >you're playing to enjoy yourself and dont care about flags, who cares, >right? ;) Right indeed, I just wander around doing my own thing. If it coincides with others then that is a bonus - hence my choice of druid. Necro as an alt soon methinks. <Snip> >Biggest thing; go with folks who are going to have fun, who aren't >terribly snappy, and who already like you ;) :) >(oooh, or the hole, that can be fun too ;) ) Er....wassat? SignatureMalcolm From the shadows, the mysterious Malcolm Smith <malcolm@tringhenge.co.uk> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered: >>> I'll take your word for it. First and last raid for me. I will just >>> potter along as a solo druid, grouping with the odd friend/guildee when [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Indeed, but this was the easier raid :( Gnome walk is not a flag raid. Don't bother with it. > From the shadows, the mysterious Malcolm Smith > <malcolm@tringhenge.co.uk> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Gnome walk is not a flag raid. Don't bother with it. It flags you for opening the factory door. Not saying it's a very useful flag though, I have used mine maybe once since I got it. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons > > From the shadows, the mysterious Malcolm Smith > > <malcolm@tringhenge.co.uk> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > It flags you for opening the factory door. Not saying it's a very useful > flag though, I have used mine maybe once since I got it. Graeme, I don't know what your shoulders are, but if they don't equal or exceed COG ENCRUSTED EPAULETS MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP Slot: SHOULDERS AC: 12 DEX: +8 STA: +10 WIS: +12 AGI: +8 HP: +65 MANA: +65 SV COLD: +10 SV POISON: +10 Recommended level of 55. Focus: Haste of Mithaniel WT: 0.8 Size: MEDIUM Class: CLR DRU SHM Race: ALL Slot 1, Type 7 then you might want to consider taking a good group to the factory in Innovation. These drop pretty commonly from the Protos. The focus effect is a spell haste for healing spells. One trip was sufficient to outfit two shamans and a cleric with these; they were very appreciative. Soulfrost >> > From the shadows, the mysterious Malcolm Smith >> > <malcolm@tringhenge.co.uk> (if that IS his real name) [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Soulfrost I have the Blessed Coldain Prayer Shawl. MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP Slot: SHOULDERS AC: 8 STA: +8 CHA: +8 WIS: +8 INT: +8 HP: +50 MANA: +50 SV FIRE: +8 SV DISEASE: +8 SV COLD: +8 SV MAGIC: +8 SV POISON: +8 Effect: Flowing Thought III (Worn) Focus: Zephyr of Brell WT: 2.0 Size: SMALL Class: ALL Race: ALL Slot 1, Type 7 My stamina is maxxed self buffed, my wisdom is maxxed when I want it to be, so, basically, I'd gain 15hp, 15mana, 2PR, and 2CR, and lose 8 on other saves, and much more importantly, FT3 and 20% buff extension, so, really, no chance I'd wear that instead. We do go in and kill the protos off and on, to get upgrades for others in the guild though, and I have seen that drop, as well as several of the enchanter hate reduction daggers, and a few other nifty trinkets. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons > "Archerbear" <archerbear@notqwest.net> wrote in >>I don't know what your shoulders are, but if they don't equal or >>exceed [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > other saves, and much more importantly, FT3 and 20% buff extension, so, > really, no chance I'd wear that instead. Well, the Ft3 and buff extension are hard to beat, but you -would- also gain haste of mithaniel, which is an upgrade to spell haste IV, speeding up casting of heals (except Cheal) and buffs by even more than SHIV would. Still not a good tradeoff for the shawl, but much better deal than you thought. And since most people don't have the shawl, for most healers its one of the better items you can get for shoulders, particularly considering how easy it is to come by. > We do go in and kill the protos off and on, to get upgrades for others in > the guild though, and I have seen that drop, as well as several of the > enchanter hate reduction daggers, and a few other nifty trinkets. There's also a healer head piece thats pretty nice as I recall, due again to its focus effect, not its stats per se. Been a long time though. Splendid >> "Archerbear" <archerbear@notqwest.net> wrote in > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > There's also a healer head piece thats pretty nice as I recall, due > again to its focus effect, not its stats per se. IH4 head piece, but, I have FT2 head with decent stats from BoT, so, again, not something I want. Also, given that my main heal spell is Quiescence, not terribly useful, plus, I also have Ornate arms with IH4 for those times when I do cast my best non gimpCH, non HoT spell. Haste of Mithaniel would be nice, but, not worth the tradeoff for me. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons >Graeme, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Soulfrost Sweet, way better than what I have now. They would look great on my 55 Shaman. Looks like I'll be creating a Factory group soon. From the shadows, the mysterious Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered: >> From the shadows, the mysterious Malcolm Smith >> <malcolm@tringhenge.co.uk> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >It flags you for opening the factory door. It's a key, not a real flag. It does nothing for progression. I repeat. Gnome walk is not a flag raid. Don't bother with it. > From the shadows, the mysterious Graeme Faelban > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> (if that IS his real name) [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > I repeat. Gnome walk is not a flag raid. Don't bother with it. Never said it was a progression flag. Never even said it's worth bothering with. I do distinctly recall that when I hailed that gnome, I did get a character flag though. Sure, all the flag did was allow me to open the factory door, but, that doesn't make it any less a flag. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons From the shadows, the mysterious Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered: >> From the shadows, the mysterious Graeme Faelban >> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> (if that IS his real name) [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >did get a character flag though. Sure, all the flag did was allow me to >open the factory door, but, that doesn't make it any less a flag. If the seer doesn't talk about it, it's not a flag. The seer doesn't talk about it. It's not a flag. <ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrote: > From the shadows, the mysterious Graeme Faelban > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> (if that IS his real name) [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > It's not a flag. The seer doesn't talk about Behemoth when you are flagged until you have killed RZtW. Does that mean that it's not a flag until then? :) That's the most semantic argument I've seen in a long time. Nice job! > From the shadows, the mysterious Graeme Faelban > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> (if that IS his real name) [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > It's not a flag. Why do I feel like one of us is DT here? (Both of us?) Call it what you want Ben, when I hailed him I got a character flag. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons > From the shadows, the mysterious Graeme Faelban > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> (if that IS his real name) > conspiratorially whispered: > >Never said it was a progression flag. Never even said it's worth > >bothering with. I do distinctly recall that when I hailed that gnome, I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > It's not a flag. Funny. The seer tells me "You remember Nitram's words, three small turns to the right on the bottommost rivet should open the door." And has, ever since I hailed the gnome after killing the dragon. SignatureDearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci Talynne - Level 65 Deceiver on E'ci >> From the shadows, the mysterious Graeme Faelban >> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> (if that IS his real name) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > And has, ever since I hailed the gnome after killing the dragon. Regardless, if, when I get it, it says, that I received a character flag, well, to me anyway, that makes it a flag. Obviously Ben has some different definition of what a flag is... SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons >I repeat. Gnome walk is not a flag raid. Don't bother with it. Personally, it was just to try a raid, no interest in planar progression. Oh and the raid never really got as far as wiping, it seems the keyholder quit! SignatureMalcolm >Thanks for all the advice. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I hope they succeeded, but I am somewhat doubtful! Ugh. So it *was* a Behemoth raid after all. If it's any consolation any raid that lets people die before getting into the Factory itself has virtually no chance of a win against the Behemoth so you probably saved yourself a few hours of aggravation if nothing else. Signature[65 Forest Stalker] Schadenfreude (Human) [65 Prophet] Spetsnas (Iksar) Bristlebane server >>I hope they succeeded, but I am somewhat doubtful! > >Ugh. So it *was* a Behemoth raid after all. Nope, it wasn't! It was the 'one with the gnome'. >If it's any consolation >any raid that lets people die before getting into the Factory itself >has virtually no chance of a win against the Behemoth so you probably >saved yourself a few hours of aggravation if nothing else. Not much :) Still, got the xp back in a couple of hours in Dulak AND got my healing waters spell - didn't need it any more, but there was principle at stake! SignatureMalcolm > >>I hope they succeeded, but I am somewhat doubtful! > > > >Ugh. So it *was* a Behemoth raid after all. > > Nope, it wasn't! It was the 'one with the gnome'. There is a gnome on both, although on Behemoth you don't escort him around, just say "I will test the machine" and hail him for a flag after Behemoth dies. If you were intending to do the gnome escort, then your raid was going entirely in the wrong direction. That one takes place completely outside of the factory, and shouldn't be going past a ramp or the factory entrance at all. > >If it's any consolation > >any raid that lets people die before getting into the Factory itself > >has virtually no chance of a win against the Behemoth so you probably > >saved yourself a few hours of aggravation if nothing else. And a blown spawn, hopefully. For almost two months on E'ci, Behemoth was kept permadead by pickup raids that had no chance of winning (even with 90 people) constantly blowing the spawn. SignatureDearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci Talynne - Level 65 Deceiver on E'ci >>>I hope they succeeded, but I am somewhat doubtful! >> >>Ugh. So it *was* a Behemoth raid after all. > >Nope, it wasn't! It was the 'one with the gnome'. You hail a gnome in the Factory to spawn the Behemoth. --Jekke ===================== Playing on Torvonilous Mipmip Bromeliad (Froglok Cleric, 36) http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=850034 Veteran Moulin Khmer (Dark Elf Rogue, 65) http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=87681 Qiin Dred (Iksar Necromancer, 55) http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=717977 > >>>I hope they succeeded, but I am somewhat doubtful! > >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You hail a gnome in the Factory to spawn the Behemoth. Well, not entirely accurate. Behemoth spawns on his own even if nobody talks to the gnome. You just talk to the gnome for the pre-flag, so Behemoth kill will register after he dies. SignatureDearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci Talynne - Level 65 Deceiver on E'ci >Thanks for all the advice. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I hope they succeeded, but I am somewhat doubtful! My first ever dragon raid was also in POI. I wasn't planning on doing a raid that night but I zoned into POI and was just looking for an exp group. I seen lots of people at the zoneline and I was invited. We cleared our way to the gnome. Picked up the gnome and then worked out way to where the dragon was. We all buffed up and then spawned the dragon. As a 55 Shaman none of my spells would land and luckily I was never summoned. My pet died though but we easily killed the dragon. I hailed the gnome afterwards and was flagged for the factory. I think we had close to 40 people total in the raid. I kept quiet and just listened. Everything went fairly smooth. > My first ever dragon raid was also in POI. I wasn't planning on doing a raid > that night but I zoned into POI and was just looking for an exp group. I seen [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the factory. I think we had close to 40 people total in the raid. I kept > quiet and just listened. Everything went fairly smooth. A) your spells should have had no trouble landing.. the ones you cast on your party members that is, heals and perhaps remove disease (is the DOT disease based? I forget). B) your spells cast on the dragon... funny thing about dragons. You need to be in melee range to land a spell. I'd be very surprised if you couldn't land Any spells on Xanamech at 55 (a resist or two wouldn't be a surprise, but none at all over several casts?), particularly since its highly likely given that you succeeded that someone cast something from the mala, tash, and OOS lines on him, bringing his resists down into the bargain basement where a 46 could probably land spells... if in melee range, which in this case means under the dragon's tail so as to stay out of range of his breath (and hope someone fed him some Beano before starting) Splendid > A) your spells should have had no trouble landing.. the ones you cast > on your party members that is, heals and perhaps remove disease (is > the DOT disease based? I forget). > > B) your spells cast on the dragon... funny thing about dragons. You > need to be in melee range to land a spell. I'd be very surprised if This is not true of Xanamech or AD - to name 2 that I know from personal experience. My mage can nuke them from outside their AE range with ease. > you couldn't land Any spells on Xanamech at 55 (a resist or two > wouldn't be a surprise, but none at all over several casts?), [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Splendid Every spell my (then) 56 BL cast on him the last time we took him down was resisted - I know he was tashed and Malos'd. This was my cold nukes and smolder proc from my WLK. SignatureArch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866 >> A) your spells should have had no trouble landing.. the ones you cast >> on your party members that is, heals and perhaps remove disease (is [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > This was my cold nukes and smolder proc from my WLK. He's fairly resistant, even when debuffed. As I recall, neigher poison or cold landed much if at all on him. Epic DoT would land regularly (magic based). Can be a bit tough to slow, but not too bad. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons >B) your spells cast on the dragon... funny thing about dragons. You >need to be in melee range to land a spell. I'd be very surprised if you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >out of range of his breath (and hope someone fed him some Beano before >starting) Lance have you ever FOUGHT Xanamech? Not all Dragons are Nagafen. Signature[65 Forest Stalker] Schadenfreude (Human) [65 Prophet] Spetsnas (Iksar) Bristlebane server >>B) your spells cast on the dragon... funny thing about dragons. You >>need to be in melee range to land a spell. I'd be very surprised if you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lance have you ever FOUGHT Xanamech? Not all Dragons are Nagafen. Aye, I have. Many times as a cleric, but wasn't trying to land anything on him. Just the once as a mage; I was told to get into melee range. Did so, spells landed. Never tried landing spells on him from outside melee range. After all, I was told I had to be in range, and sure enough, landing spells from there did work, and I know that -some- dragons (and other boss mobs) do work this way. Add to that the Kobe008 (who I was responding to) saying he wasn't able to land any spells at all as a level 55 shaman... well, sure looked like confirmation of what I'd been told. What do you think the explaination is for this curious report, then? Level? Sean reported similar problems as a 56 beastlord. I thought that A) the hard cap on top level mob you can effect was removed quite some time ago, B) Xanamech isn't all that high level anyway. Next time (I'm sure there will be a next time, Xanamech is a pickup raid target of some frequency, and as an unguilded I'm happy to go on pickup raids because I have no duty to think of, and the loot is always randomed... not that Xana has anything I really need, but there's the principle of the thing) I'll try it from a distance. But is it really possible to land spells from outside AE range? I thought his range was very long indeed. Splendid > Next time (I'm sure there will be a next time, Xanamech is a pickup > raid target of some frequency, and as an unguilded I'm happy to go on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Splendid When I'm running my beasty and my mage I like to get the mage into a low maintenence position. Because I use a KVM to swap between machines, the ability to leave him stationary, preferably mounted, is huge. Then I just have to use the keypad I have attached to that machine to control him. Against Xanamech I don't use bolts, but I do have a Wand of the Ice Storm, ERIV - so my other nukes reach when he is parked up the wall - and he doesn't get ae'd there. My experiences slowing with my 'chanter (mobs much higher level than him that were debuffed by my mage) and the observations of mage's with regard to their epic landing its procs support a 10 level limit on landing spells. Xanamech is level 66 - so my BL should, by all the info I have, been able to land his ice nukes. Unless I was 55 then - but I don't remember taking him on regular guild raids before he hit 56. I might have, since this was a small one. In fact, now that I think on it, I didn't have him added to the raid roster (for RPP and the like) until he was 56, but I did take him to "non-critical" raids before that. SignatureArch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866 Savage Lord Bosra Snowclaw of Lanys T'vyl http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=891562 (btw - anyone know how to add stat food to a profile? I tried the section in the lower left with the links, but it has no options available.) >> Next time (I'm sure there will be a next time, Xanamech is a pickup >> raid target of some frequency, and as an unguilded I'm happy to go on [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > didn't have him added to the raid roster (for RPP and the like) until > he was 56, but I did take him to "non-critical" raids before that. Level aside, Xanamech has decent resists. Shammy nukes (poison and cold) rarely, if ever land on him, and that's at level 65, tashed and malosed, or, when it lands, malosinia-ed. He seemed to be less resistant to magic than cold and poison, could just be that I tried that more, as the slow was a lot more important than a few shammy nukes. Other classes may have better luck with nukes due to what resist they check, resist mods, and (at least for wizards) casting level modifying buffs. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons > Level aside, Xanamech has decent resists. Shammy nukes (poison and > cold) rarely, if ever land on him, and that's at level 65, tashed and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > resist they check, resist mods, and (at least for wizards) casting > level modifying buffs. Mage's don't get resist mods, but my best nuke is still black steel, which saves against MR. If cold doesn't land, that would definitely explain the lack of effect my nukes had. SignatureArch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866 Savage Lord Bosra Snowclaw of Lanys T'vyl http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=891562 >>>B) your spells cast on the dragon... funny thing about dragons. You >>>need to be in melee range to land a spell. I'd be very surprised if you [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >Splendid Just to add I'm pretty sure that Xanamech was Tashed by someone else before I was trying to land my slows. >> My first ever dragon raid was also in POI. I wasn't planning on doing a raid > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Splendid Ah, that is my problem. I was not right next to the dragon. It was told by the leaders that all slowers should start spamming him with slows as soon as he spawned so I did. After a few resists I gave up and just started to spot heal my group. Next time I'll know to get in closer. |
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