Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Platforms
PCXboxPlayStationNintendo
Games
ActionStrategyRole Playing GamesSimulatorsSport Games

Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / December 2003

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

virtue and spiritual radiance

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
P2 - 18 Dec 2003 06:27 GMT
What is a fair donation to a cleric who casts these two spells?
Darktyger - 18 Dec 2003 07:04 GMT
>What is a fair donation to a cleric who casts these two spells?

Not sure about Virtue, but if you find a cleric who can cast a BST
spell, I'd say give him whatever he asks for. oO
Signature

Dark Tyger, keeper of the Nerf Railgun(tm)

All hail the Thief....

Michael Ray Todd - 18 Dec 2003 08:30 GMT
>>What is a fair donation to a cleric who casts these two spells?
>
>Not sure about Virtue, but if you find a cleric who can cast a BST
>spell, I'd say give him whatever he asks for. oO

LOL

-----------------------------------------------------
Doctari MysticClaws
56 Beastlord
Tunare
mtoddATsatxDOTrrDOTcom
-----------------------------------------------------
"If your rub a Vah Shir the wrong way, you get nothing but static!"
Archerbear - 18 Dec 2003 17:17 GMT
> >>What is a fair donation to a cleric who casts these two spells?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> -----------------------------------------------------
> "If your rub a Vah Shir the wrong way, you get nothing but static!"

For a more serious answer:

It cost your cleric a peridot to cast Virtue, so just to give him at a
minimum their own costs back 12 platinum.  This is appropriate for a cleric
you're grouping with, or on a raid with.  Giving him/her a peridot in return
is also considered acceptable, if not preferable.

If you're hiring a cleric to drop a Virtue on you before you go out to group
or raid without them, I'd consider anything less than 20 an insult.  Face
it, they're sitting in PoK to make money, not to be a buff service without
compensation.  When I buy a virtue, I usually give the cleric 50 plat.  I
have in the past done 30 and a peridot, or given them four or five peridot
and no cash.  Never got a complaint.

Frosty
Graeme Faelban - 18 Dec 2003 17:37 GMT
>> >>What is a fair donation to a cleric who casts these two spells?
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> cleric you're grouping with, or on a raid with.  Giving him/her a
> peridot in return is also considered acceptable, if not preferable.

Well, technically, 10.5pp actually is the cost of a peridot, if you are
paying more, you are paying too much.  Mind you, if I am giving someone
cash to cast Virtue on me, I give them more than the cost of the peridot.

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

KSF - 18 Dec 2003 17:51 GMT
I have always given 20 plat unless i tell them ahead of time i am short of
plat at that time and give them what i have including any
gold/silver/copper.... i'm a poor ingame player, go figure.......spent all
my time leveling up not farming for plat. Only went hunting for plat when I
needed it.
But, here lately, things have looked up, so I have been giving 30 plat for
virt and 20 plat for KEI on my ranger, but for my druid, he has been giving
20 plat for temp and 20 plat for clarity and any mind candy.

The Red Armored Elf

Elfton lvl 51 Ranger Tunare Drinal server
Elftons lvl 41 Druid Tunare Drinal server
Cossack - 18 Dec 2003 18:51 GMT
> > Doctari MysticClaws
> > 56 Beastlord
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Frosty

Pre 46 I gave 20plat for Temp... now I give 30 plat for Virtue, and 35 to
40plat for extended Virtue since it lasts just a bit longer.  Sometimes
lately its getting nearly impossible to find Virtue though so maybe its time
to start paying a little more???  Wish my 49 Warrior was an Umber Twik so I
wouldn't need buffed as much.  Oh well maybe someday I'll be rich enough to
afford top of the line gear or be able to hunt the planes etc`...  lol
Lewzephyr - 22 Dec 2003 16:54 GMT
>What is a fair donation to a cleric who casts these two spells?

Depends:

Virtue: id consider you an a.s if you donated any less than 30 pp.
I  usually donate 40 - 50.

Aego:  Id consider you an a.s if you dontated any less than 30 pp
I usually donate 30 - 40.

Temperance:  Id consider you an a.s if you dontated any less than 20pp
I usually donate 20 - 30

KEI:  Id consider you an a.s if you donated any less than 20 pp...
I usually donate 30 - 50 depending on my need....

This is just me... not many people are really "worried" if I think
them an a.s... just my personal stance.
Graefaxe - 22 Dec 2003 17:08 GMT
: >What is a fair donation to a cleric who casts these two spells?
:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
: Temperance:  Id consider you an a.s if you dontated any less than 20pp
: I usually donate 20 - 30

For all the above I donate 2-3 Dots (depends on the char level because I
don't share too much between chars).  I feel that is fair for a "donation".
If, the cleric is broadcasting "open trade window for easy targetting", they
generally do not get my business.

: KEI:  Id consider you an a.s if you donated any less than 20 pp...
: I usually donate 30 - 50 depending on my need....

I offer 30 to 50 pp also.  But, see above.  If they are offering for free or
donate if you wish, I donate.  If the are "charging", I beat feet to someone
else if my guild mates are not available.

: This is just me... not many people are really "worried" if I think
: them an a.s... just my personal stance.

Anyone that charges should just say "50pp or equivelent".  If it's is for
"donations", then take what you get.  For some reason, people seem to think
"donation" is a euphamism for "charge what I can get".
Jennaii - 22 Dec 2003 19:09 GMT
>If, the cleric is broadcasting "open trade window for easy targetting", they
>generally do not get my business.

I donate 30 plat if someone requires a trade window.  I donate 50 if they
don't.

"This time: gonna do it RIGHT!" -- Bob Seger
Jennaii
Darktyger - 22 Dec 2003 19:57 GMT
>>If, the cleric is broadcasting "open trade window for easy targetting", they
>>generally do not get my business.
>
>I donate 30 plat if someone requires a trade window.  I donate 50 if they
>don't.

I don't even do that. I'm the one who stands to lose something of
significant value, they should be the one to take the "risk". If I
cheat them, they're out some mana. Maybe 1 minute to regen. If they
cheat me, I'm out plat that could have been far better spent
elsewhere.
Signature

Dark Tyger, keeper of the Nerf Railgun(tm)

All hail the Thief....

Sean Kennedy - 22 Dec 2003 20:05 GMT
>>>If, the cleric is broadcasting "open trade window for easy
>>>targetting", they generally do not get my business.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> cheat me, I'm out plat that could have been far better spent
> elsewhere.

They stand to lose a lot more than a piddly few plat - they stand to
lose the ability to sell buffs and make several k per hour.  

Signature

Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866

Darktyger - 22 Dec 2003 22:51 GMT
>> I don't even do that. I'm the one who stands to lose something of
>> significant value, they should be the one to take the "risk". If I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>They stand to lose a lot more than a piddly few plat - they stand to
>lose the ability to sell buffs and make several k per hour.

I seriously doubt a few people stiffing them now and then will
seriously cut into their profits. And if it is a big problem, then
perhaps going out and actually earning the plat will be advisable to
them...
Signature

Dark Tyger, keeper of the Nerf Railgun(tm)

All hail the Thief....

Lance Berg - 22 Dec 2003 23:20 GMT
>>>I don't even do that. I'm the one who stands to lose something of
>>>significant value, they should be the one to take the "risk". If I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> perhaps going out and actually earning the plat will be advisable to
> them...

I think you misunderstand whats being said here.

If the caster steals your money and doesn't buff you, then you are
likely to kick up a fuss, using shout/ooc rant boards, guild chat, and
so forth, to the extent that the caster becomes unable to make an income
casting buffs (or failing to do so, in this case)

All that in exchange for saving a minute or less worth of medding, and
for getting over on you to the tune of what, 25pp more or less?

Now I'm not as sure as all that that its quite that easy to ruin a
caster's business.  And I think the obverse is -also- true, that should
a caster buff you and you then don't pay him, that he can equally use
the same sort of chat channels (plus maybe a local enchanter's channel
or something) to tarnish your rep so you won't be able to get buffs in
the future from anyone.  And what did you get, a two or three hour buff,
tops, assuming you don't die, saving an average of 25pp or so?

Its in everyone's best interest that these transactions go thru, both
have something substantial to lose (future business, future buffs) and
very little to gain (a free buff, a little mana, 25pp or so both ways)

Splendid
Sean Kennedy - 23 Dec 2003 00:09 GMT
>>> I don't even do that. I'm the one who stands to lose something of
>>> significant value, they should be the one to take the "risk". If I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> perhaps going out and actually earning the plat will be advisable to
> them...

Reread that and try again.

Signature

Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866

Archerbear - 23 Dec 2003 14:58 GMT
> >> I don't even do that. I'm the one who stands to lose something of
> >> significant value, they should be the one to take the "risk". If I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> perhaps going out and actually earning the plat will be advisable to
> them...

DT,

A few people stiffing me over buffs became a few people a day stiffing me
became it not worth my time to sell KEI any more, because it was more
effective to go out and actually earn my plat (as you put it).  And now I
only KEI guildies (for free of course) and every time I see people screaming
that nobody is selling KEI in Tranq, it's music to my ears.

Be careful before you decide stiffing is no big deal.
Darktyger - 23 Dec 2003 18:26 GMT
>DT,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Be careful before you decide stiffing is no big deal.

Doesn't really effect me much, since I rarely get KEI except when
grouping or someone MBG's it for free. ;) Exception would be
occasionally when someone's offering it non-MBG'd for free, in which
case, I tend to tip afterwards...

Suppose I'm an oddity. I'm more casual when soloing, so I'm not
worried so much about mana regen.
Signature

Dark Tyger, keeper of the Nerf Railgun(tm)

All hail the Thief....

Lewzephyr - 22 Dec 2003 19:24 GMT
>: >What is a fair donation to a cleric who casts these two spells?
>:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>"donations", then take what you get.  For some reason, people seem to think
>"donation" is a euphamism for "charge what I can get".

Of course you can do what you wish.... and I usually do go for the
individuals who ask for donation... rather than a donation of a
specific amount.
But, with all groups, clicks, circles..... words and meanings tend to
evolve over time...   Sow for Spirit of Wolf, Billy for er... billy...
then you have real world instances...  
"he is a nice person" --->  He's cool"  Cool? does he need a sweater?
"she's not a nice person" ---> "she's a bitch"  bitch? female dog?

Just as you say some people have taken the word donation as a
euphemism for "better pay me for washing your windows or ill...
ill.... breathe on you"

In the end... its really all about what gets your panties in a wad....
Lance Berg - 22 Dec 2003 20:12 GMT
> For all the above I donate 2-3 Dots (depends on the char level because I
> don't share too much between chars).  I feel that is fair for a "donation".
> If, the cleric is broadcasting "open trade window for easy targetting", they
> generally do not get my business.

On Morel Thule, this was very much the way I and apparantly most people
saw this demand.  Open trade window?  Do you not trust us?  Is this some
lame way of saying "donate and if I like what you give, I'll cast on you?"

Oddly, on Firiona Vie its totally accepted as the norm, and I can see
why; I've never had a "donation" (aka my best guess at a fair payment)
turned down, but its a nice easy transaction; I get my payment on my
cursor, find the caster, hand it to him.  He now has me targetted, easy
to invite me (for group spells) or to cast on me.  He hits invite, I hit
the give button and then the follow button, nice and neat.

He can at this point disband me without delivering, of course.  I've
never seen that happen, and I'm pretty sure he'd quickly get a very bad
reputation, at a minimum -I- wouldn't be a repeat customer, and the buff
vendors have each made hundreds, thousands of pp off me over my playing
life, getting away with a single shot of 25pp just isn't going to be
worth it.

On MT we used /rt to much the same effect, send tell, get targetted for
an invite, "donate" after the cast.  Extra step though, and puts the
burden of honesty on the person asking for the service, who is often
lower level and has less to lose... not that much less though, it worked
well enough.

> : KEI:  Id consider you an a.s if you donated any less than 20 pp...
> : I usually donate 30 - 50 depending on my need....
>
> I offer 30 to 50 pp also.  But, see above.  If they are offering for free or
> donate if you wish, I donate.  If the are "charging", I beat feet to someone
> else if my guild mates are not available.

This, I think is very odd.  I cringe when I hear "donation"; they aren't
sitting there because they saw miracle on 34th street too many times,
they are there because they want to make money.  Its payment for
services rendered.  If anything, its a gratuity, since the amount is set
by the person being served, with an understood minimum in most cases.
Donation, though?  Is that 65 chanter a begger?  Is he collecting for
Toys for Tots?  No, he's pocketing the money, and he's not a homeless
war veteran either.

As a mage, I considered standing around ringing a bell collecting alms
to buy FT with to replace the mana generation that just got ripped out
from under me... That would have been requesting donations.  But heck,
I'm not hurt as badly as monks were, I'll soldier on.

> : This is just me... not many people are really "worried" if I think
> : them an a.s... just my personal stance.
>
> Anyone that charges should just say "50pp or equivelent".  If it's is for
> "donations", then take what you get.  For some reason, people seem to think
> "donation" is a euphamism for "charge what I can get".

This is indeed the worst, ask for "donation" or even more clearly
"donate if you wish" and you should be ready to give service in exchange
for a copper, or a foraged bookworm, just as the Santa from the
Salvation army is equally ready to wish you a Happy Holiday for a
hundred dollar bill or a penny tossed into his bucket.

Sadly, Donate is the term that seems to have been adopted by the
community, which as I said, I think really means to say Gratuity (or Tip)

Splendid One, 58 gnomage, cheap but reliable at 25pp per service
Annie Benson-Lennaman - 24 Dec 2003 11:51 GMT
> He can at this point disband me without delivering, of course.  I've
> never seen that happen, and I'm pretty sure he'd quickly get a very bad
> reputation, at a minimum -I- wouldn't be a repeat customer, and the buff
> vendors have each made hundreds, thousands of pp off me over my playing
> life, getting away with a single shot of 25pp just isn't going to be
> worth it.

    To my knowledge, this is has happened once, though I wasn't there at the
time.  A paladin named Medhai, or something close to it, stripped down (and
presumably was in /role, as are most people on FV) and shouted he was selling
KEI.   He got a full group, each of whom had donated, then sat down and camped.
The fact that I know about it without having been there points to the kind of
reputation this guy has.  

> This, I think is very odd.  I cringe when I hear "donation"; they aren't
> sitting there because they saw miracle on 34th street too many times,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Toys for Tots?  No, he's pocketing the money, and he's not a homeless
> war veteran either.

   I don't sell temp very often. I simply don't care to spend my time that way,
though I appreciate those that do.  But if I am in the PoK, not really busy, and
a bunch of folks are screaming for it, I will hit my "temp whore" hotkey.  It
goes something to the effect of "Now casting temp at the main back.  Please at
least cover the cost of the stone (11 plat). I'm on the green lizard."

   So, though I don't actually use the word "donation", I would guess that most
who see my spam would say that I have if they've just done a quick read of it,
as I would assume most do.  The norm on FV is 20p for temp.  I've had a few
people who do fork over the 11 plat I'm actually requesting, or one peridot.  I
do cast on them, and don't rebuke them in anyway.  But I do also think that they
don't really get it.  If they want to be able to purchase these buffs in the
future, doesn't it make sense to offer some small bribe to keep the buffers
coming back and doing this boring duty?  I've also had a few who have donated as
much as 50 plat, though not as often as the minimum donators.  

  When I pay for kei, and I do considerate to be a payment rather than a
donation, I give 20 plat, which again is the standard on FV.  Given that KEI
doesn't cost the enchanter a component, I think this is a fair return.  But from
my experience, I would guess that several of them do get one copper or a fishing
grub.

--
Annie

To join the alt.games.everquest chat channel type /join serverwide.age:age
If you want to stayed joined, then after that type /autojoin serverwide.age:age

Currently playing:
Teapray-- 48 High Elf Cleric on Firiona Vie

Teamort-- 16 Dark Elf Necromancer of Lanys T'vyl

Lentea-- 33 Ogre Beastlord On Firiona Vie

--
If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me.
@ndrew - 24 Dec 2003 13:07 GMT
If anything, its a gratuity, since the amount is set
> > by the person being served, with an understood minimum in most cases.

Agree with this

> > Donation, though?  Is that 65 chanter a begger?  Is he collecting for
> > Toys for Tots?  No, he's pocketing the money, and he's not a homeless
> > war veteran either.

True

>     I don't sell temp very often. I simply don't care to spend my time that way,
> though I appreciate those that do.  But if I am in the PoK, not really busy, and
> a bunch of folks are screaming for it, I will hit my "temp whore" hotkey.  It
> goes something to the effect of "Now casting temp at the main back.  Please at
> least cover the cost of the stone (11 plat). I'm on the green lizard."

Very noble

>     So, though I don't actually use the word "donation", I would guess that most
> who see my spam would say that I have if they've just done a quick read of it,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> coming back and doing this boring duty?  I've also had a few who have donated as
> much as 50 plat, though not as often as the minimum donators.

I bow to you component buffing is a pain as the owner of a 53 cleric I
understand all of this.

>    When I pay for kei, and I do considerate to be a payment rather than a
> donation, I give 20 plat, which again is the standard on FV.  Given that KEI
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> --
> If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me.

Well interested in this ... on my server (Bristlebane) my 65 shaman char has
actually spent more than an Enchanter in getting his premium spell Focus of
the Seventh (averages about 3K more in cost).

I was bored yesterday and announced in PoK that I was doing one round of 65
Shaman buffs at the bank. Interestingly, I mentioned nothing about payment
and of the group that formed only one player payed (11pp as a matter of
fact).  After mana denuding myself of a full round of buffs I was thinking
about the enchanter phenomena ... why do players pay these guys sometimes
exhorbitant amounts for their services?

Agreed, I can make my own mana and do not depend on them for mana regen on
the other hand I have to shell out more to buy my spells (glyphed runes are
hard to come by for me) and overall my buffs do more good for players than a
pure mana regen.

Perhaps we Shammies are not being appreciated o)
Rant off.

regards
@ndrew
Lance Berg - 24 Dec 2003 14:03 GMT
> "Annie Benson-Lennaman" <anniebenlen@stopthevoices.yahoo.com> wrote in

>>   When I pay for kei, and I do considerate to be a payment rather than a
>>donation, I give 20 plat, which again is the standard on FV.  Given that
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>>grub.

> Well interested in this ... on my server (Bristlebane) my 65 shaman char has
> actually spent more than an Enchanter in getting his premium spell Focus of
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Perhaps we Shammies are not being appreciated o)
> Rant off.

Fo7 more good for players than a pure mana regen?

HP 544
STR 75
DEX 75

No mana regen at all.

Versus

250 mana pool
14 mana per tic
25 int
25 wis

For a warrior, monk, or rogue Fo7 is clearly better.  These people only
buy KEI when doing trade skills, though.

For a pure caster, though, HP matter little, STR and DEX even less; how
often do you see necromancers, mages, enchanters, or wizards hitting
things with weapons over level 10 or so?  Only the HP part is at all
interesting

For shaman, the stats are nice, HP translates to a bigger mana pool in a
way (although note that KEI also gives bigger mana pool), and they
sometimes do bother hitting things with weapons, although there's rarely
any real point.  For a cleric, that Dex can really mean something, in
terms of getting their hammers to proc, which is really what cleric
melee post 56 is about, the damage they do from actual melee is as low
as you might expect, but a high proc rate can generate some decent
numbers.  For a druid... maybe the str would help them carry more loot home?

Hybrids might benefit more from Fo7 than from KEI... but perhaps still
not; knights who are playing MT actually use a fair amount of mana
(small amounts but spent constantly), often out of quite tiny pools, and
are rarely accorded any med time at all, Beastlords have it worse as
they have useful high level spells to blow mana on, if the mana is
available.

That leaves bards.  Bards get only the mana pool and int increase
benefits from KEI, on the other hand they don't spend a lot of time
getting hit (HP part) or hitting things with proccing weapons (dex part)
either.

So far, there's already a slight edge to KEI, its the more useful of the
pair to more classes.

But there's a deal breaker: Fo7, like Focus and HOS and the HP talisman
line, overwrite a series of self buffs; for pure casters, the Shielding
line, for clerics, the Blessed Armor of the Risen line.  Hybrids, I
don't know, perhaps not.  At any rate, this means that Fo7 trades me 544
hp plus useless 75 str and 75 dex for (at the high end of the line) a
350 hp, 39 AC (admittedly useless) an 40 MR buff; top end casters only
gain 194 hp and lose 40 MR from getting Fo7

Clerics suffer most of all though, as their buff is 450 hp, 36 AC (a
stat they may actually use) and 8 mana per tic (lesser version at 58 is
6 mana per tic)... Fo7 instead of KEI means 94 extra HP, 75 extra dex,
at the cost of 250 mana, 25 wis (quite often clerics wear gear that is
25 wis short of the cap, since they normally have KEI on, and there are
plenty of other stats they can pursue, such as Dex gear and HP gear and
STA gear and clicky gear) and a whopping 22 mana per tic in regen,
between losing KEI and Armor of the Zealot both.

Fun eh?

Splendid
Graeme Faelban - 29 Dec 2003 14:51 GMT
> But there's a deal breaker: Fo7, like Focus and HOS and the HP
> talisman line, overwrite a series of self buffs; for pure casters, the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of the line) a 350 hp, 39 AC (admittedly useless) an 40 MR buff; top
> end casters only gain 194 hp and lose 40 MR from getting Fo7

To the best of my knowledge, the only casters of any type that generally
don't want Fo7 are Clerics, and given that focus stopped overwriting the
self buff some time ago, that is not generally an issue.

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

Lance Berg - 29 Dec 2003 17:16 GMT
>>But there's a deal breaker: Fo7, like Focus and HOS and the HP
>>talisman line, overwrite a series of self buffs; for pure casters, the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> don't want Fo7 are Clerics, and given that focus stopped overwriting the
> self buff some time ago, that is not generally an issue.

I'm not saying that Fo7 isnt generally better than Shield of the Arcane,
(although if you are in a situation where MR is vital, it isn't) but
rather that F07 isn't better than KEI (for a pure caster), in part
because the benefits of Fo7 are mitigated by it overwriting Shield of
the Arcane.

Note that as a Magician I have two seperate self only buffs, one that I
share with other pure casters, the shield line I'm talking about here,
and one that I don't, the AC/Regen buff line.  Focus line does not
overwrite the latter (although up to TPP any AC buff including
Temp/Aego/Virtue will), but does seem to overwrite the former, unless
the change is very recent or is unique to Fo7 (and not mere focus or
below) or perhaps to a higher level of shielding than my current level
54 one.

Even if this is true, I suggest that the benefits of KEI are better than
the full 544 hp plus useless (to a pure caster) stats of Fo7, the point
you are responding to here is mere icing on the cake.

I did think of one class other than pure melee for whom Fo7 is
definately a better deal than KEI; Necromancer.  Since they have a
superior mana regen self buff which conflicts with KEI, and their mana
pool and HP pools are very closely linked by that line, More HP is a
very good thing, and KEI is usually not a good thing at all.

Splendid One, 58 Gnomage, Firiona Vie

PS in case I'm not clear, again, I'll state that Fo7 is generally
preferable to not having Fo7, even if it does overwrite a self buff.
This comparison is only for some weird hypothetical situation where you
can pick only one of the two buffs, Fo7 and KEI... perhaps two casters
are at opposite ends of POK doing MGB at the same time, and you have to
pick which direction to run.  I also would like to point out that the
comparison wasn't started by me, I'm responding to @ndrew's claim that
"overall my [65 shaman's] buffs do more good for players than a pure
mana regen."
Archerbear - 29 Dec 2003 21:21 GMT
> > I'm not saying that Fo7 isnt generally better than Shield of the Arcane,
> (although if you are in a situation where MR is vital, it isn't) but
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> "overall my [65 shaman's] buffs do more good for players than a pure
> mana regen."

Just to muddy the waters further... /grin

Fo7 + HoV has fewer HP than Infusion of Spirit (IOS) + Symbol (Kazad?  Some
cleric help me here) + PoC.  By going the IOS/Symbol/Cabbage line, a pure
caster gets more MR, more HP, and more mana regen.  Makes even necros happy!

Soulfrost
Graeme Faelban - 29 Dec 2003 22:20 GMT
>> > I'm not saying that Fo7 isnt generally better than Shield of the
>> > Arcane, (although if you are in a situation where MR is vital, it
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> line, a pure caster gets more MR, more HP, and more mana regen.  Makes
> even necros happy!

Fo7 + Kazad + Po9 is even more hp.  Why PotC when we are talking level 65
spells already?  Only ones that ever ask for IOS from me are clerics when
they are using HoV + BAoR instead of Po9 + Kazad.

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

Archerbear - 30 Dec 2003 14:57 GMT
> >> > I'm not saying that Fo7 isnt generally better than Shield of the
> >> > Arcane, (although if you are in a situation where MR is vital, it
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> spells already?  Only ones that ever ask for IOS from me are clerics when
> they are using HoV + BAoR instead of Po9 + Kazad.

Good point, Graeme.  Mental block on my part; my local druid is only 61.  :)
Aruvqan - 24 Dec 2003 20:05 GMT
i love my shammy...but then i am married to him <grin>
aru

> Perhaps we Shammies are not being appreciated o)
> regards
> @ndrew
Gohrus - 23 Dec 2003 01:40 GMT
> KEI:  Id consider you an a.s if you donated any less than 20 pp...
> I usually donate 30 - 50 depending on my need....

Mhh.. I guess I've been barely making the a.s-cutoff as (pun intended)
I donate 20pp for KEI normally. In my younger levels, I only donated
15pp, because that was really all I could afford without making a loss
(hunting in DL..). I guess I could pay more by now - I'll change to
25pp for now, and maybe more later on once I finally have my Drogmor.

Another reason by the way is, that when I log on, I need (as in "am
ineffective without") 3 casts:
-Focus Bag (25pp)
-Kei (20pp)
-Pot9 (15pp)
So before doing any hunting I'm out 60pp, which is still a significant
amount of money for me since I'm having a real hard time finding
groups these days - and a soloing wizard doesn't make much cash.

By the way, I keep getting very low donations on porting people. My
porting announce makes it clear that it's for donation (ie, don't pay
if you don't want to - I still believe that's what "for donation"
means) and quite frequently I get nothing. Of course it still kind of
pisses me off if I seriously go out of my way to lend a helping hand
and then get a "thx. c ya l8ter", but I like the "for donation"
approach better than, say, announcing how much you want.

Example (that I've been meaning to get off my chest): a level 56
beastlord who needed a port to PoK in the Rathe Mountains. After I
cast the TL on him, he hands me 5pp and tells me that's all he has.
After I know he's been in the zone for quite a while (because I keep
checking it to make sure it's not getting over-crowded - and anyway
I'd ran across him a few times)... THAT is insulting. I'd rather get
nothing.

Of course, these feelings are in character. In RL, I don't really care
at all. Right.

-Gohrus Anzell
Graeme Faelban - 23 Dec 2003 14:11 GMT
> Another reason by the way is, that when I log on, I need (as in "am
> ineffective without") 3 casts:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> amount of money for me since I'm having a real hard time finding
> groups these days - and a soloing wizard doesn't make much cash.

How in the world did wizards ever manage to level before KEI, Po9, focus
items?

What level are you?

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

Lance Berg - 23 Dec 2003 14:23 GMT
>>Another reason by the way is, that when I log on, I need (as in "am
>>ineffective without") 3 casts:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> How in the world did wizards ever manage to level before KEI, Po9, focus
> items?

A) They didn't, were rated as one of the lower DPS classes, useless for
most purposes, and relegated to soloing, which was a process of quadding
a round of blue mobs, then sitting around forever, and repeating.  To
level, a good book and a safe place to sit were required tools.  OR,
rarely, a wizard could find an AE group, which meant killing 70 mobs at
at time instead of just 4... but sitting just as long after.

B) Back then melee classes were also much less well equipped,
"effective" is a relative thing; if you are doing 90DPS and the rogue is
doing 100DPS, no problem.  But if the same level rogue is now doing
150DPS, the wizard needs more mana flow, less mana spent, and more
damage per cast, in order to also do 150 DPS, just to keep up; you have
the same spells at the same level as ever, "balance" is set with the
assumption that focus items and mana regen are available.

Splendid, 58 gnomage, niether wizard nor rogue, Firiona Vie
Graeme Faelban - 23 Dec 2003 14:38 GMT
>>>Another reason by the way is, that when I log on, I need (as in "am
>>>ineffective without") 3 casts:
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> meant killing 70 mobs at at time instead of just 4... but sitting just
> as long after.

Ah, guess I was imagining the high level wizards then, OK.

Yes, I know that finding a group with a wizard sucked big time, but,
still, somehow they did manage, whether through pity, or soloing, somehow
they did manage.

> B) Back then melee classes were also much less well equipped,
> "effective" is a relative thing; if you are doing 90DPS and the rogue
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> have the same spells at the same level as ever, "balance" is set with
> the assumption that focus items and mana regen are available.

Sure, everyone is far more effective now than they were back then.  

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 31 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

Lance Berg - 23 Dec 2003 20:38 GMT
>>>>Another reason by the way is, that when I log on, I need (as in "am
>>>>ineffective without") 3 casts:
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> still, somehow they did manage, whether through pity, or soloing, somehow
> they did manage.

Mostly no, they didn't manage, they quit and ran other classes.  The few
who did manage found niches, such as soloers or burst damage dealers,
or, as you suggest "pity" or friendship grouping.  There was also a
larger tendancy to pull, med break, pull, med break, as other classes
had similar problems.  This wastes the available DPS of the melee
classes (including pets) though.

Changes to the game balance have redressed this problem to a large
extent, but a -lot- of that change comes down to KEI and focus items
(and a mount, outdoors) making it possible for a wizard to do more than
drop one nuke, then sit till the next mob comes along

>>B) Back then melee classes were also much less well equipped,
>>"effective" is a relative thing; if you are doing 90DPS and the rogue
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Sure, everyone is far more effective now than they were back then.  

No, a level 49 wizard without focus items and KEI and POTC is hardly any
more effective than one from before those things were commonly
available, same for a 59 wizard.. admittedly a 64 wizard is more
effective than 64 wizards predating those tools.. but only because there
was no such thing as a 64 wizard back then.

Thats precisely the point I was trying to make, the people a wizard is
competing with are now much more effective, so he too has to be much
more effective than he used to be.

Splendid
Archerbear - 23 Dec 2003 15:09 GMT
> >>Another reason by the way is, that when I log on, I need (as in "am
> >>ineffective without") 3 casts:
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Splendid, 58 gnomage, niether wizard nor rogue, Firiona Vie

I PL'd a bard to manasong levels on a second account.  Then I'd do a quad,
group the bard and listen to manasong, disband, do a quad...  I still have a
hotkey for "/tar Fyneas /invite" and one for "/disband" somewhere in my
hotkey bank, around page 7 or so.  After KEI became available, I moved my
enchanter to the second account so I could KEI the wizard, THEN group the
bard for manasong.

That was for solo work, of course.  For grouping, pre-KEI, I simply sucked.
I wish I still had a copy of the post my then-guildleader made, begging
guildies to group with the guild wizards and help them level so we could
have high-level wizards on raids - because the entire guild was out-leveling
the four wizards we had and the raid leader wanted wizard firepower.

Rhian,
65 Wizard
Xegony
Darktyger - 23 Dec 2003 18:23 GMT
>> Another reason by the way is, that when I log on, I need (as in "am
>> ineffective without") 3 casts:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>How in the world did wizards ever manage to level before KEI, Po9, focus
>items?

They did just fine as far as I remember. :p I know plenty of wizards
in their mid 50's that aren't "ineffective" without all of the buffs
on the list... I'd say it's more that Gohrus is spoiled. ;)
Signature

Dark Tyger, keeper of the Nerf Railgun(tm)

All hail the Thief....

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.