xp issues

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b - 17 Apr 2006 18:30 GMT

thanks to everyone who's been helping me, and anyone who contributed to the
recent thread about mutliboxing ...

i am using lavasoft's winEQ and successfully running up to 5 accounts (with
max settings, no less!) ... it's great, but i think 3 is the magic number
(and i like to leave the other bots in group to leech xp and toss a buff
every 10 minutes ... like regular eq, but with no one to talk to in /g =P )

anyway...

i'm noticing some xp issues ... it might be that they were always there, but
hotzone xp-acceleration magnified it ... but i suspect it's just that i've
never leveled a handful of toons at the same exact time, and thusly been in
a position to notice ... although it is possible some patch changed things
during the 1.5 years i was gone ...

i have toons of levels 47, 48, 51, 54, 55, and 56

that SHOULD be a good group - and functionally, it's fantastic...the 55 is a
druid, and i'm seriously hoping the dps picks up .. i'll probably be
dropping the druid out of group and putting a rogue in place ... but the
thing is, it's *not* a fantastic group ... the xp is pretty sour on the
lowest toons

and it doesn't seem to matter where i hunt, but xp was best in gunthak (mobs
were high 30's at the shanty town) and worst in PoJ / velks / old sebilis
(mobs were probably 43-47)

so what gives? when the 54+ toons are out of group, xp is a lot better ...
and when i shroud them down to 50, it's also better

and i realize that 1 person playing all those characters has to be slower
than each account receiving full attention, but to compensate, i use a 70-pt
DS setup on the tank and "parallel process" with 3-5 mob pulls ... but i
don't think xp is slower because my full group isn't a real full group
(killing faster, etc etc)

i'm assuming you all know that shrouds are pretty weak ... so keeping the
toons shrouded to stay within 5 lvls of each other is really not a great
option...

i'm planning on pl'ing the bottom up a little bit, then hoping xp spreads
more evenly ... but come on, pl? that's not a good answer, and i would
probably put the other toons in, shrouded, leeching, anyway...

i guess what i need to know is ... would fighting higher lvl mobs give more
xp to the bottoms, or would it stay proportionate? is that a stupid
question? what am i missing?

when all toons are within a few levels of each other, is it generally better
to plow through mobs of equal/lower level, or to struggle with fewer higher
lvl mobs? i seem to remember something about the latter being preferred, but
is it still that way? does it depend on the level range (as in, that only
applies to 55+ ?)

thanks,

~fennin.faza/firiona.goom~

Reply to this Message

Richard Carpenter - 17 Apr 2006 21:46 GMT

> thanks to everyone who's been helping me, and anyone who contributed
> to the recent thread about mutliboxing ...
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> place ... but the thing is, it's *not* a fantastic group ... the xp is
> pretty sour on the lowest toons

Well, if I understand correctly, your characters will each get a share of
the xp porportionate to their level in the group. For example, on a
10000xp mob (including all group bonuses - figures rounded):

Level 56 character gets 18% (1800xp)
Level 55 character gets 18% (1800xp)
Level 54 character gets 17% (1700xp)
Level 51 character gets 16% (1600xp)
Level 48 character gets 15% (1500xp)
Level 47 character gete 15% (1500xp)

> and it doesn't seem to matter where i hunt, but xp was best in gunthak
> (mobs were high 30's at the shanty town) and worst in PoJ / velks /
> old sebilis (mobs were probably 43-47)
>
> so what gives? when the 54+ toons are out of group, xp is a lot better
> ... and when i shroud them down to 50, it's also better

With the 54+ out, that same 10000xp mob would break down as follows:

Level 51 character gets 35% (3500xp)
Level 48 character gets 33% (3300xp)
Level 47 character gete 32% (3200xp)

So, yeah, those characters would see over twice the xp from the same
kill, though it may just take them twice as long to do it.

> and i realize that 1 person playing all those characters has to be
> slower than each account receiving full attention, but to compensate,
> i use a 70-pt DS setup on the tank and "parallel process" with 3-5 mob
> pulls ... but i don't think xp is slower because my full group isn't a
> real full group (killing faster, etc etc)

Shouldn't be that big a difference, unless you are *really* slow working
across characters.

> i'm assuming you all know that shrouds are pretty weak ... so keeping
> the toons shrouded to stay within 5 lvls of each other is really not a
> great option...

Actually, it might not be too bad in your case. It might serve to close
the level gap between your various characters a bit. If your 56 shrouds
down to 50, he would get the equivalent amount of xp from each mob that a
real level 50 would get. Still, I wouldn't bother with it unless you're
really concerned with catching up on your lower level characters.

> i'm planning on pl'ing the bottom up a little bit, then hoping xp
> spreads more evenly ... but come on, pl? that's not a good answer, and
> i would probably put the other toons in, shrouded, leeching, anyway...

Well, I guess I spoke too soon. :P In that case, you might consider
shrouding down to 50 on your top 2 or 3 characters. It will serve to
catch them up. Choosing to PL them wouldn't be a bad idea either. We're
only talking about 6 or 8 levels. I guess it would be a matter of
preference. Me, I would probably shroud.

> i guess what i need to know is ... would fighting higher lvl mobs give
> more xp to the bottoms, or would it stay proportionate? is that a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> being preferred, but is it still that way? does it depend on the level
> range (as in, that only applies to 55+ ?)

The xp dispersion proportion would remain the same with reds but the risk
would increase. A level x mob in zone y will always yield the same amount
of xp before any non-zem bonuses. I've always been of the understanding
that as a rule killing blue mobs is the most efficient means of earning
xp.

Hope this helps and that I'm not completely off base one any of it.
Someone please correct me if I am.

Signature

Richard Carpenter
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin

Reply to this Message

Don Woods - 17 Apr 2006 23:38 GMT

> > i have toons of levels 47, 48, 51, 54, 55, and 56
> >
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> So, yeah, those characters would see over twice the xp from the same
> kill, though it may just take them twice as long to do it.

The "xp proportionate to their level" is a simplification. I've
read that the formula actually distributes it based on level+5, i.e.,
if you add 5 to everybody's level, you'll get numbers whose relative
proportions match the proportions of the xp awards. But that's
mostly in the noise, as witness it doesn't really affect the 15-18%
spread for the characters listed.

But Richard's analysis forgets that there's an xp bonus based on the
size of the group. For a 3-group, the multiplier is 1.4, whereas
for a 6-group it's 2.16. So that hypothetical mob that was worth
10000xp to the full group, would be worth only 6481xp to the smaller
group. Dividing that among the bottom three toons yields from 2074
to 2268xp, which is higher than they would've gotten as part of the
group of six but is far short of the 3200-3500 shown above.

Could there be other factors dragging down the xp? E.g., are any of
the lower level characters Iksar? (I'm not sure which other races
suffer an xp penalty.) Is anyone putting points into leadership xp?

The thing is, even though the lower levels get less xp than the
higher levels, the higher levels also need more xp to reach the next
level. I'm not sure of the formula for xp per level (there's a
modifier that ratchets up every 5 levels, and I'm not sure what it
does after level 50), but a level 53 should need about 25-35% more xp
to ding than a level 47 does, and the level 53 is getting only about
11% more xp per kill than the level 47, so I'd expect the level 47's
xp bar to move faster.

-- Don.

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stanmann - 18 Apr 2006 00:47 GMT

> > > i have toons of levels 47, 48, 51, 54, 55, and 56
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> 11% more xp per kill than the level 47, so I'd expect the level 47's
> xp bar to move faster.

The problem is that 54+ is where the XP curve gets a bit stiffer. so
the example isn't quite accurate. If you can find a place where you
can handle the pulls, and manage quick killing(a 50 or 55 DH instance)
you might find that the xp will curve in your favor.

The way xp actually works is base on Current xp
Lv 50 Mob is worth 1M xp
Group Bonus of 2x=2M
Level 56 with 235M xp 35% 700Kxp
Level 55 with 167M xp 25% 500kxp
level 54 with 125M XP 18 % 360kxp
Level 51 with 58M XP 9 % 180kxp
Level 48 with 47M XP 7 % 140kxp
Level 47 with 40M XP 6 % 120kxp

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/EverQuest/Frequently_Asked_Questions

Once all characters get past lvl 50, you'll be able to take advantage
of the HCB or High Con Bonus for killing stuff >5 levels higher than
you.

StanMann

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Mark Rafn - 18 Apr 2006 18:32 GMT

>> i'm noticing some xp issues ...
>> i have toons of levels 47, 48, 51, 54, 55, and 56
>> that SHOULD be a good group - and functionally, it's fantastic...
>> ... but the thing is, it's *not* a fantastic group ... the xp is
>> pretty sour on the lowest toons

>Well, if I understand correctly, your characters will each get a share of
>the xp porportionate to their level in the group.

Close. The characters get a share proportionate to their previously-earned
xp (excluding xp sent to AA and LAA, I believe). This is NOT linear with
level - it's quite likely that a level 56 has 4x or more experience points
than a level 47.

This has been a problem forever - the actual "good xp group" range is 2-5
levels (varies by actual level), not the 12 levels or whatever that Sony
claims. Beyond that the lower levels fall further behind, rather than
catching up.

This is rational, in that the lower levels (except a twinked cleric with CH
and a lot of mana) simply contribute far less to the group, but it's socially
difficult, even if all the characters are you :)

My recommendation: ungroup the 55 and 56 (but don't let them KS the other 4),
put the 54 on 100% AA, and play that way until everyone's within a few levels
of each other.
--
Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net <http://www.dagon.net/>

Reply to this Message

Richard Carpenter - 18 Apr 2006 20:08 GMT

>>> i'm noticing some xp issues ...
>>> i have toons of levels 47, 48, 51, 54, 55, and 56
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> that Sony claims. Beyond that the lower levels fall further behind,
> rather than catching up.

Wow, that explains a lot. Thanks for that bit of insight.

Signature

Richard Carpenter
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin

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Tim Smith - 19 Apr 2006 05:23 GMT

> >Well, if I understand correctly, your characters will each get a share of
> >the xp porportionate to their level in the group.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> level - it's quite likely that a level 56 has 4x or more experience points
> than a level 47.

No, that's how it worked around 3 or 4 years ago. They changed it in
2002 or 2003 to do the split based on level: share = your_level /
sum_of_levels_of_group.

Signature

--Tim Smith

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Don Woods - 19 Apr 2006 12:40 GMT

> > Close. The characters get a share proportionate to their previously-earned
> > xp (excluding xp sent to AA and LAA, I believe). This is NOT linear with
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> 2002 or 2003 to do the split based on level: share = your_level /
> sum_of_levels_of_group.

In Nov 2003 Sean Kennedy posted the following, which claimed (though
I have no idea if it's true) that it's proportional to "level plus five":

> >>> > The basic formulas for xp go as follows -
> >>> >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> >>> >
> >>> > (4) XP = B * (PL + 5) / (S + (N*5)) * HCB

If the above is correct, the High Con Bonus should not be affecting
the OP, since he wasn't fighting stuff level 55+. If the HCB in fact
applies to, say, a level 50 fighting a level *45* (i.e., a level 50+
player and a mob no more than 5 levels lower), that might explain why
the OP's lower levels weren't getting xp as fast, though shrouding
down to 50 shouldn't change that (not for the better, anyway).

-- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 60 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 55 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
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-- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr

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