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Definition of Ninja Looting

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Steptoe - 20 Mar 2006 14:34 GMT
Yesterday, I was in Eastern Wastes and someone ooc'd that a Fabled
Ry'Gorr chest piece was rotting. I ran over and looted it and thanked
the person who had advertised it. It was an upgrade for me.
He said that he didn't ninja loot. I was a bit puzzled by the statement
but didn't take the time to discuss it with him.
The piece was Bard usable and both of us were playing Bards at the time.
It is a NO TRADE item.
I thought that when an item was advertised as "up for grabs," the term
ninja looting did not apply, but maybe I don't understand the term well
enough.
I looked in our FAQ but didn't find a definition of ninja looting.
Any thoughts?
stanmann - 20 Mar 2006 18:41 GMT
> Yesterday, I was in Eastern Wastes and someone ooc'd that a Fabled
> Ry'Gorr chest piece was rotting. I ran over and looted it and thanked
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I looked in our FAQ but didn't find a definition of ninja looting.
> Any thoughts?

Assuming that everything happened exactly as you said, you were
absolutely right

Rotting means come get it, I can't/won't use it, or I already have it.
Now, its possible, that someone else sent the guy a /tell saying they
were OTW to get it, which is fairly common practice, but not required.
That is the only scenario I can see that makes sense of his response.

So no you violated no rules of ettiquette, and you got an upgrade that
might have rotted.

Good for you.

StanMann
zigipha@hotmail.com - 20 Mar 2006 19:28 GMT
To address the OP: my view of ninja looting is first come first serve.
Usually used in a group. Basically who ever clicks on the mob first
gets the right to loot. For XP grinders, its simpler than alpha
looting. For farming groups, its not as fair because some of the
classes are typically left out of the loot cycle (casters), so alpha
loot is more equitable. On top of all that, the group agrees on how to
handle valuable items (/rand or whoever loots it keeps it).
Don Woods - 20 Mar 2006 23:46 GMT
> To address the OP: my view of ninja looting is first come first serve.
> Usually used in a group. Basically who ever clicks on the mob first
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> loot is more equitable. On top of all that, the group agrees on how to
> handle valuable items (/rand or whoever loots it keeps it).

What you describe is something that I've normally heard referred
to as "FFA", for "free-for-all" looting.  And I agree that the
casters can get left out of it, though if they're willing to give
up a few seconds of medding they can often get their share as well.

Ninja looting, to me, means sneaking in and looting someone else's
kill.  This can only happen after the loot timer has ticked down a
little, but that can easily happen if there's a big fight and people
are leaving the corpses to be looted after the last mob drops.  In
any case, I agree that the OP did nothing wrong, since the item was
advertised as rotting.  (Though as someone else noted, it may be that
another person had sent a tell to the advertiser saying they were on
their way.  So the OP might've tried doublechecking whether it was
claimed yet, and/or could've sent a tell himself to tell the slaying
player that he was interested in it.)

I'll see about adding FFA and ninja looting to the FAQ glossary and/or
in the Grouping 101 doc.

    -- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 58 on E. Marr       Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 55 on E. Marr       I'll get to it sooner if you
-- Teviron, Knight 44 on E. Marr       remove the "hyphen n s"
-- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr
Palindrome - 21 Mar 2006 18:36 GMT
>Ninja looting, to me, means sneaking in and looting someone else's
>kill.  This can only happen after the loot timer has ticked down a
>little, but that can easily happen if there's a big fight and people
>are leaving the corpses to be looted after the last mob drops.

Yes, that's how I understood the term too - sneaking in to loot
someone else's loot just after the timer goes.

>In any case, I agree that the OP did nothing wrong, since the item was
>advertised as rotting.

Quite right. If it's offered up for grabs in an OOC, he who gets there
firstest...

Palindrome
bizbee - 22 Mar 2006 14:12 GMT
>Ninja looting, to me, means sneaking in and looting someone else's
>kill.  This can only happen after the loot timer has ticked down a
>little, but that can easily happen if there's a big fight and people
>are leaving the corpses to be looted after the last mob drops.

Although there are particular situations, like raids, where that holds
up, when I see some a.shole (read: bard) killing everything in the
zone, and just leaving it because he's so friggin greedy that he's
afraid someone else may actually get one of the mobs, I feel free to
loot anything that the timer has expired on, and I, nor would a GM,
don't consider that ninja looting by any stretch of the imagination.
Just because you <can> kill everything in the zone with absolutely no
regard for other players doesn't mean you <should> or that it's right
to. Generally speaking, I've found that when you start stripping their
kills, they tend to slow it up and actually share with other people
once they realize that they're wasting time. If you or a member of
your party can't find two seconds to loot a kill someplace in the next
two minutes because you're busy, then you're out of luck. Two minutes
is a long time. Example: I go into Karnors all the time and find
upwards of ten or fifteen dead drolvargs near the entrance--and not a
person in sight. Five minutes later, some people come up from below
and start looting the crap. That's fine, but don't be surprised if all
you find is plague mites. I don't ask permission to loot a corpse with
a minute left of the expiration timer, that's for sure. "Looting a mob
that isn't yours" is horrifically vague, because after it's dead for
two minutes, as per the game rules, it's not yours anymore, it's
public property. As in the OP's situation here, it was announced that
it was rotting. At that point, it's first come, first served, period,
and any regard for someone calling dibs on it is a mere courtesy.
Like I said though, on a raid or with prime mobs dropping things that
need to be rolled up, it's a different story.
I've always understood the act to most often be the prick in the group
that no one knows, jumping in and looting an item, then dropping out
of the group and leaving, or logging, which, as I understand it, at
least at one time, would bring retribution from a GM if you did it.
bizbee - 23 Mar 2006 01:12 GMT
I should add to this, I don't run up and loot abandoned corpses when
there's people around them, at least not without asking, since I have
no idea what the people (or person) may be doing. The thing I <do>
know is they aren't off someplace else in the zone killing as fast as
they can.
Mark Rafn - 20 Mar 2006 23:53 GMT
>Yesterday, I was in Eastern Wastes and someone ooc'd that a Fabled
>Ry'Gorr chest piece was rotting. I ran over and looted it and thanked
>the person who had advertised it.

So far so good.

>He said that he didn't ninja loot. I was a bit puzzled by the statement
>but didn't take the time to discuss it with him.

Why not?  Did you feel like you might have done something wrong (and you
haven't told us the full story)?  I can understand not wanting to get into a
flamewar on /shout or /ooc (or even /tell), but a simple "huh?  it was /ooc'd
as rotting" seems only polite, and you may learn that you missed a retraction
or something.

>I thought that when an item was advertised as "up for grabs," the term
>ninja looting did not apply, but maybe I don't understand the term well
>enough.  I looked in our FAQ but didn't find a definition of ninja looting.

It's not a common nor old enough phrase to have a formal definition in most
dictionaries.  Its meaning is defined by people who use it.  That said, what
you describe (looting something that's been offered as rot) doesn't qualify
for my definition, nor the one at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Looting.
--
Mark Rafn    dagon@dagon.net    <http://www.dagon.net/>  
bizbee - 21 Mar 2006 01:20 GMT
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:34:27 -0500 in
<441eafe4$0$9748$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>, Steptoe
<wdn-steptoe@comcast.net> graced the world with this thought:

>Yesterday, I was in Eastern Wastes and someone ooc'd that a Fabled
>Ry'Gorr chest piece was rotting. I ran over and looted it and thanked
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>I looked in our FAQ but didn't find a definition of ninja looting.
>Any thoughts?

Sounds like he didn't quite use the term properly. He doesn't ninja
loot? Whatever, you have it now!
Vladesch - 21 Mar 2006 07:20 GMT
> Yesterday, I was in Eastern Wastes and someone ooc'd that a Fabled Ry'Gorr
> chest piece was rotting. I ran over and looted it and thanked the person
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
> http://www.SecureIX.com ***

Ninja looting is getting in first and looting something that it meant for
something else.
Since the item was rotting and shouted to the whole zone, its whoever gets
there first. I dont see a problem, and I dont understand his comment.
Faeandar - 22 Mar 2006 23:16 GMT
>Yesterday, I was in Eastern Wastes and someone ooc'd that a Fabled
>Ry'Gorr chest piece was rotting. I ran over and looted it and thanked
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
>*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

Ninja looting does not have to be a non-group member, it could be
anyone.  Some people have given examples of ninja looting someone
elses kills after a timer expires but that's not the only case.

If a looting order or procedure is defined for the group and someone
loots outside of it, that's ninja looting.

If, in FFA looting, someone is always looting because they are right
clicking the mob as it falls, that too is ninja looting.

In both cases there needs to be intention to make it a potentially
punishable offense; intention to loot out of turn or before anyone
else.  Sometimes people just click the wrong thing or hit the wrong
button, no biggie if it's fairly isolated.

These are just my personal definitions but they've been widely
accepted in groups I've been a part of.

~F
 
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