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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / March 2006dmg/delay question
So not really understanding the mechanics behind this topic I have a simple question. Current weapon is 36/40 (dmg/delay). If I change to a 32/36 will my DPS be effected overall? It's a drop of 4 on both sides so usually 4=4 but ... I just like the idea of hitting more frequently since misses become less costly over time. Also the 32/26 weapon has a proc (20 point lifetap) whereas the current has no proc. Thanks. ~F In alt.games.everquest, Faeandar <mr_castalot@yahoo.com> wrote: >So not really understanding the mechanics behind this topic I have a >simple question. > >Current weapon is 36/40 (dmg/delay). If I change to a 32/36 will my >DPS be effected overall? It's a drop of 4 on both sides so usually >4=4 but ... DPS is a function of the ratio of the weapons, assuming the same skill, same handed-ness and no procs. 36 / 40 is 0.9 damage per unit of delay. 32 / 36 is 0.888 damage per unit of delay. So, 36/40 is actually the slightly better ratio, but by a small margin. >Also the 32/26 weapon has a proc (20 point lifetap) whereas the >current has no proc. Which probably tips the balance in favour of the 32/36 weapon. There are other factors to take into account, but in general, the higher the ratio, or the higher the damage per unit of delay, the more DPS a weapon will deliver. 10 dmg / 20 delay = 0.5 damage per unit of time 20 dmg / 20 delay = 1.0 damage per unit of time (a 1:1 ratio) 30 dmg / 20 delay = 1.5 damage per unit of time Depending on your class, don't forget that the higher the ratio the more aggro each potential swing delivers.  SignatureTony Evans (ICQ : 170850) GCv312 GCS d s+:++ a C+++ UAL++++$ P+ L++ E W(++) N+++(N--) w++$ R+ tv-- b++ 4 food groups: Coffee, Chocolate, Sugar, and Sex. Gemmell Mania : http://www.gemmellmania.co.uk >In alt.games.everquest, Faeandar <mr_castalot@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Depending on your class, don't forget that the higher the ratio the more >aggro each potential swing delivers. So it really is as simple as a straight ratio? Damn, I was thinking there were several aspect to this. Too easy. Thanks for the reply and clarification. Berserker is the class and both weapons are 2hs. Thinking I'll stay with what I have since the slight upgrade for the proc will cost me greatly. Not doing bad with the current weapon just always on the lookout for better. From most conversations I've had in game it seems my current weapon is the best I can get (lvl restrictions) until my epic 1.0. Now that weapon is cool. ~F > >36 / 40 is 0.9 damage per unit of delay. > >32 / 36 is 0.888 damage per unit of delay. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > So it really is as simple as a straight ratio? Damn, I was thinking > there were several aspect to this. Too easy. There are a few other factors, but the two weapons are pretty similar. A main-hand weapon proc will fire about once a minute, if you have average Dex (I think it goes up to twice a minute, for 255 Dex, without AA's). The damage bonus of two-handed weapons also varies, based on the weapon's delay (and your level). You can check Lucy for the details, but the difference will be small, since the weapons have similar delays. The formula typically used is: DPS = ( 2*damage + bonus ) / delay The bonus only exists for melee classes above level 28 or so. Otherwise, it is proportional to damage/delay. Damage from the proc would be added to this (e.g. 20pt proc, once per minute, for 20/60 = 0.333 added DPS). If it were my choice, I would go with the 32/36+proc. On the other hand, it isn't enough of an upgrade to go crazy over. Since you mention it would be a huge cost to you, I would pass on buying it in the bazaar. - Prelgor >>In alt.games.everquest, Faeandar <mr_castalot@yahoo.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > the best I can get (lvl restrictions) until my epic 1.0. Now that > weapon is cool. It's more complicated than that. If you look at the weapons, it will show you what your damage bonus is with each weapon. For your main hand, calculate (2xDmg + Bonus)/Dly. For your off hand, it's (2xDmg + 1)/Dly. These would be the numbers to compare to see which weapon is more DPS, not including procs. Your damage bonus will vary depending on your level and class. SignatureGraeme Faelban, 70 Shaman, <Sanctuary of Marr> Erolissi Marr In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier@netscape.net> wrote: >Your damage bonus will vary depending on your level and class. Also, damage bonus on 1 handed weapons is based purely on your level and class. Damage bonus on 2 handed weapons is based on the weapon's delay. i.e. if your bonus is 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 30 sword, it's also 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 10 sword. SignatureTony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : David Gemmell When I want your advice, I'll beat it out of you Gemmell Mania : http://www.gemmellmania.co.uk > In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier@netscape.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > i.e. if your bonus is 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 30 sword, it's > also 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 10 sword. Yes, but you still need to calculate the ratio with the damage bonus in order to see which is best to use. SignatureGraeme Faelban, 70 Shaman <Sanctuary of Marr> Erolissi Marr In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier@netscape.net> wrote: >> In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier@netscape.net> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> i.e. if your bonus is 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 30 sword, it's >> also 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 10 sword. >Yes, but you still need to calculate the ratio with the damage bonus in >order to see which is best to use. I said "Also ..." - i.e. adding something, not countering or contradicting or disagreeing. SignatureTony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : Guy Gavriel Kay Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of Homepage : http://www.darkstorm.co.uk/tony : Also, damage bonus on 1 handed weapons is based purely on your level and : class. Damage bonus on 2 handed weapons is based on the weapon's delay. : i.e. if your bonus is 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 30 sword, it's also : 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 10 sword. That's not true, I have a 13/17 1hs and it's bonus at L70 is like 13 or something. With my War 1.5 it's bonus is in the 20s iirc, due to it being a slower delay than the 13/17. K In alt.games.everquest, Hippie Ramone <kdeacon@scrye.com> wrote: >: Also, damage bonus on 1 handed weapons is based purely on your level and >: class. Damage bonus on 2 handed weapons is based on the weapon's delay. > >: i.e. if your bonus is 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 30 sword, it's also >: 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 10 sword. >That's not true, I have a 13/17 1hs and it's bonus at L70 is like 13 or >something. With my War 1.5 it's bonus is in the 20s iirc, due to it >being a slower delay than the 13/17. 1 handed weapon bonus is based on character level. At level 70, Champion's Sword of Eternal Power MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE Lore Group: Epic Weapons Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY Charges: Unlimited Skill: 1H Slashing Atk Delay: 26 DMG: 28 **Dmg Bonus: 15** AC: 45 SignatureTony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : David Gemmell Meaningless tagline attached to pointless message. Meet the wife : http://www.darkstorm.co.uk/grete In alt.games.everquest, Faeandar <mr_castalot@yahoo.com> wrote: >So it really is as simple as a straight ratio? Damn, I was thinking >there were several aspect to this. Too easy. I wrote, >>There are other factors to take into account, but in general, the higher >>the ratio, or the higher the damage per unit of delay, the more DPS a >>weapon will deliver. So, no, it's not quite as simple, but it's a good starting place. >Thanks for the reply and clarification. Berserker is the class and >both weapons are 2hs. Thinking I'll stay with what I have since the >slight upgrade for the proc will cost me greatly. Not doing bad with >the current weapon just always on the lookout for better. Well, as others have pointed out, two handed weapons also have a damage bonus associated with them. Slower weapons tend to have a larger damage bonus. That affects the DPS of the weapon as well and needs to be taken into account. SignatureTony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : Stan Nicholls [http://www.stannicholls.com] Hey Santa, can I have a copy of your naughty girls list? Homepage : http://www.darkstorm.co.uk/tony Tony Evans <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in news:4405e51a$0$1175$bed64819 @news.gradwell.net: > In alt.games.everquest, Faeandar <mr_castalot@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > bonus. That affects the DPS of the weapon as well and needs to be taken > into account. Both 2 Handers, and 1 Handers have a damage bonus which needs to be taken into acount. SignatureGraeme Faelban, 70 Shaman <Sanctuary of Marr> Erolissi Marr In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier@netscape.net> wrote: >> Well, as others have pointed out, two handed weapons also have a damage >> bonus associated with them. Slower weapons tend to have a larger damage >> bonus. That affects the DPS of the weapon as well and needs to be taken >> into account. >Both 2 Handers, and 1 Handers have a damage bonus which needs to be taken >into acount. Yes, I know. But if you're comparing two 1-handed weapons, the weapon bonuses are identical and hence can be ignored for the comparison. SignatureTony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : Stan Nicholls [http://www.stannicholls.com] Noble deeds that are concealed are most esteemed. Homepage : http://www.darkstorm.co.uk/tony > In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier@netscape.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yes, I know. But if you're comparing two 1-handed weapons, the weapon > bonuses are identical and hence can be ignored for the comparison. Huh? Take two one-handed weapons: 1) Dmg 15; Dly 15 2) Dmg 20; Dly 20 Both have exactly the same 1:1 ratio. If there were no damage bonus, both weapons would do equivalent DPS. However once there is a damage bonus added, the faster weapon gains the advantage because the bonus is added equally to both, regardless of delay. Has this changed or been somehow proven wrong lately? > Has this changed or been somehow proven wrong lately? No I was having a bad day. SignatureTony > In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier@netscape.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yes, I know. But if you're comparing two 1-handed weapons, the weapon > bonuses are identical and hence can be ignored for the comparison. No, you cannot ignore the bonuses. Take a 12/20 weapon versus a 24/40 weapon. (12*2+15)/20 = 1.95 (24*2+15)/40 = 1.575 Even though the damage to delay ratio is identical, the first weapon is far superior. SignatureGraeme Faelban, 70 Shaman <Sanctuary of Marr> Erolissi Marr I always heard that it was the rate of attack (i.e. delay only) that determined aggro, and not dps. thats why high speed weapons are in demand by tanks while lower speed, but beter ratios, are preferred by dps guys. In alt.games.everquest, zigipha@hotmail.com wrote: >I always heard that it was the rate of attack (i.e. delay only) that >determined aggro, and not dps. thats why high speed weapons are in >demand by tanks while lower speed, but beter ratios, are preferred by >dps guys. No, aggro is linked to the potential damage caused by each swing (not actual, btw, so missing still generates aggro). Better ratios tend to mean higher potential damage over any given period and so give greater hate generation over the same period. Note however that slow hard hitting two handed weapons can give a big aggro punch at the start of a fight, but get overtaken by faster, better ratio'd one-handed weapons. SignatureTony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : David Gemmell When I want your advice, I'll beat it out of you Gemmell Mania : http://www.gemmellmania.co.uk |
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