Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / December 2005
staring out with EQ
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John Salerno - 03 Dec 2005 18:53 GMT Hi all. I'm thinking about trying EQ and I had two questions:
1. Am I able to play the game with just the main game itself, or does playing it now require that I have all the expansions as well? What would happen if I played with just the main game?
2. Is there any reason to think that EQ3 might be coming out soon?
Thanks! John
Lance Berg - 03 Dec 2005 20:15 GMT > Hi all. I'm thinking about trying EQ and I had two questions: > > 1. Am I able to play the game with just the main game itself, or does > playing it now require that I have all the expansions as well? What > would happen if I played with just the main game? If you can find it, the game is playable with just the main game, but it would be just as easy to get one of the many combination versions out that which include several or even nearly all of the expansions. Most of the expansions include one thing or another that is handy at low levels, and for the most part the combinations are priced the same as just the original game.
> 2. Is there any reason to think that EQ3 might be coming out soon? There's not even any reason to think that EQ2 is going to be coming out soon... Well, ok, there is a game of that name out already of course, but its really not what most people think of as a sequel game, rather, its pretty much a different game which just happens to share a few names of races, creatures, classes and geography.
If "EQ3" comes out in the same vein, it might well be a version of Railroad Tycoon only with the steam engines named "Wood elf" and "Vah Shir".
A much more interesting question would be "is there a game coming out from the original creator of EQ, using much the same original premise?". Answer to that would be a guarded "yes", you could look into a game due to be released sometime (next year?) called Vanguard. But really, that won't be EQ3 (or EQ2) either.
Lance
John Salerno - 03 Dec 2005 23:32 GMT > There's not even any reason to think that EQ2 is going to be coming out > soon... Well, ok, there is a game of that name out already of course, > but its really not what most people think of as a sequel game, rather, > its pretty much a different game which just happens to share a few names > of races, creatures, classes and geography. Not sure I understand what you mean. It's a different type of game altogether?
Is there still a strong EQ1 community then?
Richard Carpenter - 04 Dec 2005 00:08 GMT >> There's not even any reason to think that EQ2 is going to be coming >> out soon... Well, ok, there is a game of that name out already of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Not sure I understand what you mean. It's a different type of game > altogether? I'll put it this way - there are many people who loved EQ but hate EQ2 and vice versa, although it's pretty save to say that the latter is a much smaller group. ;)
They were vastly different approaches to the same type of game. Whereas they are both MMORPG's, EQ1 = a much more open-ended experience while EQ2 strived to maintain class/encounter/game balance by way of controlling much of what a player might be doing at any given time, be it combat, tradeskills or questing. It was a far too restrictive approach for my tastes.
> Is there still a strong EQ1 community then? I would say there is still a strong community, but mostly at the higher levels. Lower level players you may encounter are largely just alts of higher level players, and therefore equipped with pretty incredible gear for their level. That's all well and good until you see a level 20 druid tanking better than your level 20 warrior. Then the disparity between the haves and the have-nots becomes all too clear.
Honestly, at this point, to a person wanting to give EQ a try I would suggest purchasing an EQ collection (Platinum, etc.) and checking out http://www.shardsofdalaya.com. It's a free emulated EQ server with it's own game world. Think of it as all the EQ character classes (well most of them) in a drastically different game world. Most of the gameplay mechanics are pretty much the same, but all of the lore and world design have been radically changed to make for a much different game. It also has a pretty healthy population for lower level players.
 Signature Richard Carpenter "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
John Salerno - 04 Dec 2005 00:16 GMT > Honestly, at this point, to a person wanting to give EQ a try Yeah, how exactly is the situation for someone wanting to get into at this point? Is it worth it?
Lief - 04 Dec 2005 03:29 GMT "Richard Carpenter" <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> wrote in > Honestly, at this point, to a person wanting to give EQ a try I would
> suggest purchasing an EQ collection (Platinum, etc.) and checking out > http://www.shardsofdalaya.com. It's a free emulated EQ server with it's own [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > radically changed to make for a much different game. It also has a pretty > healthy population for lower level players. Correct on most points, but it is not free. It is supported by the people who play it by means of donations. Of course you can still play it for free, but I hope you feel reaaaaaaally guilty about it :)
Personally, I donate whatever sony used to charge me.
Richard Carpenter - 04 Dec 2005 20:51 GMT > "Richard Carpenter" <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> wrote in > > Honestly, at this point, to a person wanting to give EQ a try I would [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Personally, I donate whatever sony used to charge me. Right you are. I think many people who are disillusioned by the current state of EQ are more than willing to donate to the cause for a server that offers an experience more consistent with what EQ was like in its heyday. I know I am.
Personally, I went for the "Gold" donation plan. ;)
 Signature Richard Carpenter "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
Tony Evans - 04 Dec 2005 13:15 GMT In alt.games.everquest, Richard Carpenter <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> wrote:
>Honestly, at this point, to a person wanting to give EQ a try I would >suggest purchasing an EQ collection (Platinum, etc.) and checking out >URL removed. It's a free emulated EQ server with it's own You can play EQ for free, by downloading a free Client from Sony and playing on their new freebie server, which is far better than some Quasi-legal option mentioned above, IMO.
http://escapetonorrath.station.sony.com/
Not sure why the hell you think sending someone to a server which has a completely different ruleset, player base and culture is going to let someone know if EQ is for them, is beyond me.
http://escapetonorrath.station.sony.com/ is free, is legitimate and doesn't cost a single penny (other than your bandwidth) to try out. I recommend giving it a go. Limits you to level 10 but will at least give you a feel for the game, the user interface, and the style.
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John Salerno - 04 Dec 2005 17:13 GMT > In alt.games.everquest, Richard Carpenter <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > giving it a go. Limits you to level 10 but will at least give you a feel > for the game, the user interface, and the style. Are both of those links for EQ1?
Thomas Houseman - 04 Dec 2005 19:25 GMT Tony Evans wrote:
> In alt.games.everquest, Richard Carpenter <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > giving it a go. Limits you to level 10 but will at least give you a feel > for the game, the user interface, and the style. Are both of those links for EQ1?
--------- It's the same link twice, but yes, http://escapetonorrath.station.sony.com/ is EQ1.
T.
Tony Evans - 04 Dec 2005 20:15 GMT In alt.games.everquest, John Salerno <johnjsal@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>> http://escapetonorrath.station.sony.com/ is free, is legitimate and doesn't >> cost a single penny (other than your bandwidth) to try out. I recommend >> giving it a go. Limits you to level 10 but will at least give you a feel >> for the game, the user interface, and the style.
>Are both of those links for EQ1? Not sure what you mean by 'both'. My links were both to the same location, which is a free, Sony-run, trial version of EQ1.
The other link, which I snipped, is a link to a fan-run, unofficial, quasi-legal 'version' of EQ1 which requires the use of the official client, but doesn't use any official servers.
The above links demonstrate the exact game you would get if you buy the boxed set of EQ1 and connect to Sony's servers. It's free to download the client, and free to play, but you're limited to level 10.
It should give you a good overview of EQ1, the interface, game-play, and if it's packed, it might be an indication that lots of people are showing interest.
EQ1 is a mature game, many of the players have been playing a long time, but it is by no means dead, and there are new players still starting out. However, newer games such as EQ2 and World of Warcraft are likely to have a larger number of new players.
EQ1 and EQ2 are not comparable, they are based on the same mythology, but they are different games. Yes, they're both MMORPG's, but they were designed by different people with different goals, and the gameplay experience is totally different.
Only you can decide which you want to play - I recommend trying the free EQ1 trial, and checking out Sony's EQ2 site and seeing if they offer something similar there. I also recommend seeing if Blizzard offer a free trial for World of Warcraft, and indeed if any other MMORPG's are doing similar.
They are all so varied in terms of gameplay, that different games suit different people.
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Richard Carpenter - 04 Dec 2005 21:21 GMT > In alt.games.everquest, John Salerno <johnjsal@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > quasi-legal 'version' of EQ1 which requires the use of the official > client, but doesn't use any official servers. Again with the term, "quasi-legal". SoE shut them down when they were operating under the name Winter's Roar. They have made adjustments and picked up right where they left off under the name, Shards of Dalaya. All the players' characters are still even intact.
Do you think that SoE is either unaware of their continued existence or maybe doesn't have the financial resources to shut them down again if they had the law on their side? If there was anything "quasi-legal" about it, SoD would surely have been shut down again immediately upon restart.
 Signature Richard Carpenter "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
Tony Evans - 04 Dec 2005 21:29 GMT In alt.games.everquest, Richard Carpenter <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> wrote:
>Do you think that SoE is either unaware of their continued existence or >maybe doesn't have the financial resources to shut them down again if they >had the law on their side? If there was anything "quasi-legal" about it, >SoD would surely have been shut down again immediately upon restart. The only thing we can be sure of, is that Sony doesn't stop many activities which may or may not be in breach of law relating to their IP / Copyright.
Saying, "Sony has done nothing so far, it's legal" doesn't make it legal. Up until the point where Sony had them closed last time, people would have been claiming the same thing, and were wrong.
I believe it's quasi-legal, you believe it's not, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, no need to try and convince me.
I do think it's misguided to send a prospective new player to a non-official server. Better to try the (entirely free) version first, and if that doesn't suit, or for counterpoint, have a go on the fan-run version. But at least ensure that the person understands that while Sony has not taken steps yet, it may do so in the future, and until it posts an endorsement of SoD, I will continue to believe it's at risk.
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Richard Carpenter - 04 Dec 2005 22:52 GMT > In alt.games.everquest, Richard Carpenter > <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I believe it's quasi-legal, you believe it's not, I'm not trying to > convince you otherwise, no need to try and convince me. Suffice it to say that the server is hosted in a non-US country this time around. That's probably what makes the difference.
> I do think it's misguided to send a prospective new player to a > non-official server. Well, I would agree if I truly believed that there was enough risk not to do so. In this case I don't, and since I *do* believe it to be the better game, that's where I would steer new players.
Heck, worst case scenario, they just subscribe to a SoE server later. /shrug
 Signature Richard Carpenter "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
Tony Evans - 04 Dec 2005 23:44 GMT In alt.games.everquest, Richard Carpenter <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> wrote:
>> I believe it's quasi-legal, you believe it's not, I'm not trying to >> convince you otherwise, no need to try and convince me.
>Suffice it to say that the server is hosted in a non-US country this time >around. That's probably what makes the difference. So what you're suggesting is that since they're *avoiding* the law by being located in another country, it's legal?
>> I do think it's misguided to send a prospective new player to a >> non-official server.
>Well, I would agree if I truly believed that there was enough risk not to >do so. In this case I don't, and since I *do* believe it to be the better >game, that's where I would steer new players.
>Heck, worst case scenario, they just subscribe to a SoE server later. >/shrug Or, for zero outlay, they can try one first. I'm failing to see how buying the software and playing on a server hosted in a foreign country to avoid being shut down by Sony is a better option for a brand new player who's never seen EQ, that getting a totally free download and playing on a supported server.
Your mileage may vary.
Experienced players can better make that choice. New players really should give the official supported live game a go first, IMO.
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Richard Carpenter - 05 Dec 2005 05:15 GMT > In alt.games.everquest, Richard Carpenter > <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > So what you're suggesting is that since they're *avoiding* the law by > being located in another country, it's legal? That's right. Just like anything else trafficed across borders over the internet.
>>> I do think it's misguided to send a prospective new player to a >>> non-official server. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > brand new player who's never seen EQ, that getting a totally free > download and playing on a supported server. Like I said, that's the case only if you believe that EQ is still worth the price of admission for the new player. I positively don't.
 Signature Richard Carpenter "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
John Salerno - 05 Dec 2005 00:07 GMT > Not sure what you mean by 'both'. My links were both to the same location, > which is a free, Sony-run, trial version of EQ1. Yeah, I went there and it looks like something I want to try, but I wasn't able to create a station.com account. Step 1 was entering my name, password, etc., but there wasn't any type of "submit" or "continue" button to proceed!
> EQ1 and EQ2 are not comparable, they are based on the same mythology, but > they are different games. Yes, they're both MMORPG's, but they were > designed by different people with different goals, and the gameplay > experience is totally different. I wish I had a better understanding of their difference. I will try the free EQ1 server and see if I like it. That's an ideal place to start (if I can get it to work), but is there something like it for EQ2? I can't imagine they are so different. Aren't they both basically "build a character and explore and do quests" etc.?
Tony Evans - 05 Dec 2005 01:23 GMT In alt.games.everquest, John Salerno <johnjsal@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>I wish I had a better understanding of their difference. I will try the >free EQ1 server and see if I like it. That's an ideal place to start (if >I can get it to work), but is there something like it for EQ2? I can't >imagine they are so different. Aren't they both basically "build a >character and explore and do quests" etc.? That describes all MMORPG's (well, most).
The differences lie in the focus, and how they achieve it.
It's a while since I played EQ2 and much has changed, but here's one example.
In EQ1, when you attack a creature, there's nothing special about what's going on. Anyone else can come along and attack it as well. Whoever does the most damage gets the experience point reward. You rely on people's manners to ensure you get the XP for fights you start.
In EQ2, when you attack a creature the encounter becomes 'locked'. No one else can hurt the creature until either you or it dies. The game forces the situation so that only the person who starts a fight can earn the reward.
Same thing, fundamentally different feel.
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John Salerno - 05 Dec 2005 05:37 GMT > In EQ1, when you attack a creature, there's nothing special about what's > going on. Anyone else can come along and attack it as well. Whoever does [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the situation so that only the person who starts a fight can earn the > reward. That's not a very big difference. I thought there was something more fundamentally different than that.
Tony Evans - 05 Dec 2005 06:57 GMT In alt.games.everquest, John Salerno <johnjsal@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>> In EQ1, when you attack a creature, there's nothing special about what's >> going on. Anyone else can come along and attack it as well. Whoever does [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> the situation so that only the person who starts a fight can earn the >> reward.
>That's not a very big difference. I thought there was something more >fundamentally different than that. That's one difference, and trust me, that particular difference makes the gameplay fundamentally different. There are hundreds of differences between EQ1 and EQ2 in that vein.
But only by playing will you understand.
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Stryker - 05 Dec 2005 07:53 GMT > In alt.games.everquest, John Salerno <johnjsal@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > the situation so that only the person who starts a fight can earn the > reward. This is no longer true....encounters are only locked if the group or player choose them to be. Kills cant be stolen, but players outside the encounter can help with healing or damage input.
Thomas Andersson - 16 Dec 2005 18:05 GMT > I wish I had a better understanding of their difference. I will try > the free EQ1 server and see if I like it. That's an ideal place to > start (if I can get it to work), but is there something like it for > EQ2? I can't imagine they are so different. Aren't they both > basically "build a character and explore and do quests" etc.? www.trialoftheisle.com Limited to lvl 6 (+220% XP) and lvl 9 (+220% XP) for artisans. You can do anything a real player can, but can't leave the Isle of Refuge. If you become a paying player you continue with the same character (Well, you can actually make 6 of them even with the trial and have two weeks to play).
Richard Carpenter - 04 Dec 2005 20:33 GMT > In alt.games.everquest, Richard Carpenter > <Rich_Carpenter@spamsuxmsn.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > a completely different ruleset, player base and culture is going to > let someone know if EQ is for them, is beyond me. Well, let me see if I can explain it better without insulting you back by using smaller words. Shards of Dalaya (http://www.shardsofdalaya.com) is, for starters, legit. There's nothing "quasi-" about it. They've already dealt with SoE on the issue and made the necessary adjustments.
Secondly, I would recommend SoD because it isn't polluted by mudflation and people pulling wagonloads of plat around with them. It is basically EQ with many of it's warts removed. It may not have been true a few years ago, but at this point I feel that SoD is the better game for a new player.
Lastly, the ruleset is not completely different. It certainly differs on some key points, but it is still very similar to that of EQ. Naturally, this is my own opinion, but then again, that's what the OP requested from us, now isn't it?
I feel someone interested in trying EQ would be better served with SoD. EQ is great for those already in the end game content, but the new player draw just isn't there anymore.
> http://escapetonorrath.station.sony.com/ is free, is legitimate and > doesn't cost a single penny (other than your bandwidth) to try out. I > recommend giving it a go. Limits you to level 10 but will at least > give you a feel for the game, the user interface, and the style. Wow, so they could play to level 10 only to then start paying for a much different (read: lesser) experience once they subscribe and begin playing on normal servers. Even the standard tutorial now misrepresents the vast majority of what the normal game is like these days.
Why you can't see why I might not recommend that route is beyond *me*.
 Signature Richard Carpenter "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
the wharf rat - 04 Dec 2005 21:02 GMT >but the new player draw just isn't there anymore. Yes, it's so sad... I went to crushbone last week and there were only 2 people in the zone, two level 8 dwarfs. And they *owned* the place, I mean, out back killing the slavers and the thaumaturge...
A "real" untwinked new player would be very lonely unless his friends made alts to play with him.
OTOH D'Vinn's finally getting what's coming to him...
Thomas Houseman - 05 Dec 2005 01:30 GMT OTOH D'Vinn's finally getting what's coming to him...
-----------
Rawrr!! About time too!
Vladesch - 05 Dec 2005 09:33 GMT > http://escapetonorrath.station.sony.com/ is free, is legitimate and > doesn't > cost a single penny (other than your bandwidth) to try out. I recommend > giving it a go. Limits you to level 10 but will at least give you a feel > for the game, the user interface, and the style. The problem is liking the game up to level 10 is no guide to liking the game at high levels. You can solo up to level 10. At high levels, soloing isnt really an option (technically posible for some classes perhaps), and the game is all about raiding with large guilds (typically 40+)
Most of us left EQ when WOW came out, and the few that remain tend to be the elite hard core raiders. SOE killed it for the casual gamer years ago. Unless your'e hard core and willing to play a lot of catch up, Id avoid EQ like the plague.
dont believe the fanbois.
Bruce Smith - 05 Dec 2005 16:21 GMT > Most of us left EQ when WOW came out, and the few that remain tend to be the > elite hard core raiders. SOE killed it for the casual gamer years ago. > Unless your'e hard core and willing to play a lot of catch up, Id avoid EQ > like the plague. > > dont believe the fanbois. Yeah, believe the WoW fanboi instead!
Tony Evans - 05 Dec 2005 17:56 GMT In alt.games.everquest, "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote:
>> http://escapetonorrath.station.sony.com/ is free, is legitimate and >> doesn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >classes perhaps), and the game is all about raiding with large guilds >(typically 40+) The game isn't about raiding. Raiding is an option, 98% of my time in game is spent with single groups.
>Most of us left EQ when WOW came out, and the few that remain tend to be the >elite hard core raiders. Hahah, so not true. I'm in a family guild which raids once per week, optionally, to give people a chance to see content they might not see otherwise, but who's focus is grouping and having a good time.
> SOE killed it for the casual gamer years ago. Weird, people complain it's too easy and too casual friendly these days.
>dont believe the fanbois. Ah, a troll, wish I'd spotted it earlier.
 Signature Tony Evans (ICQ : 170850) GCv312 GCS d s+:++ a C+++ UAL++++$ P+ L++ E W(++) N+++(N--) w++$ R+ tv-- b++ I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant. Homepage : http://www.darkstorm.co.uk/tony
Davian - 07 Dec 2005 03:32 GMT > In alt.games.everquest, "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The game isn't about raiding. Raiding is an option, 98% of my time in game > is spent with single groups. Beginning with PoP, SOE tried very hard to make raiding compulsory. Have they backed off that stance then?
*snip*
> > SOE killed it for the casual gamer years ago. > > Weird, people complain it's too easy and too casual friendly these days. Granted I stopped playing after OoW was out, so it's possible the last two expansions have changed tha game... but I do believe that is the first time I've ever heard anyone call Everquest casual friendly with a straight face.
Easy was a common complaint... but never casual friendly. Even if you don't count raiding, gameplay in EQ is extremely frustrating unless you can play for large blocks of continuous time. If you were not willing to do four or five hour play sessions, it wasn't really worth bothering.
*shrug* Perhaps the last two expansions have changed that, but it's still hard for me to imagine.
 Signature Jeff
Davian / Dearic
Tracey - 07 Dec 2005 04:40 GMT > *shrug* Perhaps the last two expansions have changed that, but it's still > hard for me to imagine. Well, with the last expansion, I can log on, get a mission fairly easily and log off half an hour to an hour later having gained almost a full AA pt in XP as a 61 ranger.
Tracey
Tony Evans - 07 Dec 2005 18:12 GMT In alt.games.everquest, "Davian" <davian@nospammindspring.com> wrote:
>> In alt.games.everquest, "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> >> wrote:
>> >At high levels, soloing isnt really an option (technically posible for some >> >classes perhaps), and the game is all about raiding with large guilds >> >(typically 40+) >> >> The game isn't about raiding. Raiding is an option, 98% of my time in game >> is spent with single groups.
>Beginning with PoP, SOE tried very hard to make raiding compulsory. Have >they backed off that stance then? Sony didn't make raiding compulsory. They added a lot of zones which were locked unless you completed the raiding to get in. They then relented not long after and provided quest access and then Level access to some of those zones. Eventually, they relented even further and added complete flagging processes for many of them (for example, access to Sol Ro is now a single kill in Western Wastes, soloable by any kiting class post 55, and duoable by anyone else).
There are a few ones in GoD you can get to unless you want to raid, and with OoW / DoN / DoD there are even fewer restricted zones.
>> > SOE killed it for the casual gamer years ago. >> >> Weird, people complain it's too easy and too casual friendly these days.
>Granted I stopped playing after OoW was out, so it's possible the last two >expansions have changed tha game... but I do believe that is the first time >I've ever heard anyone call Everquest casual friendly with a straight face. I didn't say casual friendly. I said, other people complain it's too casual friendly. In essence, different people see the game as being totally different. I think you'll find however, that monster missions particularly, and instanced missions in DoN as well, mean it's much easier to get stuff to do as a casual player.
The game now is different to how it was just after OoW came out.
>Easy was a common complaint... but never casual friendly. Even if you don't >count raiding, gameplay in EQ is extremely frustrating unless you can play for >large blocks of continuous time. If you were not willing to do four or five >hour play sessions, it wasn't really worth bothering. No longer true. Monster missions can take 30 minutes and can yield good xp, DoN missions can take 40 minutes and yield good XP. DoD spell progression missions can take longer, depending on the group setup. There are non-progression missions in DoD which I've not played with at all but I'm confident are around the 90 minute duration mark.
>*shrug* Perhaps the last two expansions have changed that, but it's still >hard for me to imagine. They have changed it. So much so that 'hardcore raiders' and many non-hardcore raiders claim DoD has made the game so casual oriented, it's dead.
I love how every different facet of EQ makes it dead to one or another group of people.
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Meldur - 08 Dec 2005 02:23 GMT >In alt.games.everquest, "Davian" <davian@nospammindspring.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >kill in Western Wastes, soloable by any kiting class post 55, and duoable >by anyone else). You can "finish" PoP now at one weekend.
>No longer true. Monster missions can take 30 minutes and can yield good >xp, DoN missions can take 40 minutes and yield good XP. I keep hearing about MMs yielding an AA in 10 minutes.
>They have changed it. So much so that 'hardcore raiders' and many >non-hardcore raiders claim DoD has made the game so casual oriented, it's >dead. True,from my point of view as a casual raider,why bother with raiding when DoD one groupable content yields better loot.
All in all these changes were *very* successful in getting SOE more customers,oh wait,number of servers is cut down by half. :p
Meldur (DoDless)
Tony Evans - 08 Dec 2005 08:28 GMT In alt.games.everquest, Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>I keep hearing about MMs yielding an AA in 10 minutes. I keep hearing about what people have heard about stuff.
You don't have DoD but hear stuff about it. Someone else doesn't have anything after OoW but claims he hears stuff about stuff.
Experience it, then we can talk about it.
>True,from my point of view as a casual raider,why bother with raiding >when DoD one groupable content yields better loot. Because raiding is not JUST about loot. It's about challenge, encounters, working together on a bigger scale, doing something as a guild, a social event, seeing zones and content you might otherwise not see. This is even truer when you're not a hard-core raiding guild.
Our little raiding alliance did the Carprin Cycle for the second time last weekend and then went on to beat Bertox for the first time. The loot from the Carprin Cycle is well below anything you can get for peanuts in the bazaar. Yet it was still upgrades for some people (not everyone plays in the same way), and more over, the event was a blast and people had *fun*.
 Signature Tony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : David Gemmell Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines Gemmell Mania : http://www.gemmellmania.co.uk
Meldur - 08 Dec 2005 13:51 GMT >In alt.games.everquest, Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Experience it, then we can talk about it. You know it is true,if not I feel sorry for you.
>>True,from my point of view as a casual raider,why bother with raiding >>when DoD one groupable content yields better loot. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >bazaar. Yet it was still upgrades for some people (not everyone plays in >the same way), and more over, the event was a blast and people had *fun*. Yeah,yeah,its all about fun,*I* still do hedge maze (with open raids)for fun,but thats just *me*,the vast majority of players expects some kind of possible reward,either a flag or the chance to roll on an update.
Meldur
Tony Evans - 09 Dec 2005 00:21 GMT In alt.games.everquest, Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>Yeah,yeah,its all about fun,*I* still do hedge maze (with open >raids)for fun,but thats just *me*,the vast majority of players expects >some kind of possible reward,either a flag or the chance to roll on an >update. If you wish to isolate yourself and insist the rest of the world is 100% different from you - don't let me stop you.
 Signature Tony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : David Gemmell Wrong! 30 minutes of begging is NOT considered foreplay. Meet the wife : http://www.darkstorm.co.uk/grete
murdocj - 17 Dec 2005 19:12 GMT >True,from my point of view as a casual raider,why bother with raiding >when DoD one groupable content yields better loot. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Meldur (DoDless) And you think that the loss of customers was due to the rule changes and not to the advent of WoW, Guild Wars, and other online games?
Beal - 07 Dec 2005 22:53 GMT > > In alt.games.everquest, "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > expansions have changed tha game... but I do believe that is the first time > I've ever heard anyone call Everquest casual friendly with a straight face. Monster missions have added a great tool for the casual gamer to log in for an hour and get an AA, then log out. There are also tasks of course; I never got in to those. And if you have something more like 1 - 2 hours, you can think about doing DoN and DoD missions.
> Easy was a common complaint... but never casual friendly. Even if you don't > count raiding, gameplay in EQ is extremely frustrating unless you can play for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > *shrug* Perhaps the last two expansions have changed that, but it's still > hard for me to imagine. Well they have certainly upped the quality of gear available to non-raiders. With DoN cultural gear adding as much as 225 HP per item, DoD drops with 200+ HP, augments all over the place, MPG trials are doable by non-raiders (nice stuff in there), and weapons available to non-raiders with even-or-better ratios, they have certainly thrown some bones to those of us who cannot or will not join a raiding guild. (I use HP as the standard measure of item quality, though similar items with nice mana and focus effects are also obtainable) You still need to spend a lot of time to get the very best stuff, but even a casual, few-hours-a-night player can accomplish some remarkable goals.
The problem with EQ is that starting out as a noob can be frustrating. When I started in 2002, there were actually people in newbie zones that you could group with. You could make friends along the way. Now the entire population is so top heavy, it must be frustrating to start out with no money, no gear, level 1, no friends, no guild, and an empty home city.
Impmon - 07 Dec 2005 23:55 GMT >The problem with EQ is that starting out as a noob can be frustrating. >When I started in 2002, there were actually people in newbie zones that >you could group with. You could make friends along the way. Now the >entire population is so top heavy, it must be frustrating to start out >with no money, no gear, level 1, no friends, no guild, and an empty >home city. Must be your server or something. When I created a new toon last week, there were almost 30 other toons in the tutorial at once on Maelin.
 Signature When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all.
Lance Berg - 08 Dec 2005 04:02 GMT >>The problem with EQ is that starting out as a noob can be frustrating. >>When I started in 2002, there were actually people in newbie zones that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > week, there were almost 30 other toons in the tutorial at once on > Maelin. New characters <> New players.
How many of those 30 toons were of "real" newbies, instead of alts of people who have been playing for years?
Of those alts, how many are playing without twinking, and even more interesting, how many will still be playing, without twinking, wheen they are 40?
IMO, there might be one or two "real" newbies out of that thirty, and at least 20 those alts will have been abandoned by the time they hit 40 and at least 20 of the 30 will have been twinked, either by their mains or by the "helpful" assistance of their main's friends and guildmates.
Playing it straight, untwinked and without the assistance of high level friends, is an uncommon approach these days... but even that isn't the same as "real" newbies, as people with three or four level 65 mains and several years of experience at the game simply experience the game differently, move thru levels more quickly, and aren't all that likely to form lasting friendships with real newbies, because they aren't on an equal footing; the experienced pro may end up as a mentor to genuine newbies, but a relationship of equals isn't all that likely to form.
EQ as it is today doesn't draw that many genuine newbies, so the few that it does draw aren't entering the same community as we did even just a couple years back, pre WOW/EQ2, when EQ was gaining as many (or more) newbies per year as it lost in retiring old hands.
Lance
Lance Berg - 04 Dec 2005 00:17 GMT >> There's not even any reason to think that EQ2 is going to be coming >> out soon... Well, ok, there is a game of that name out already of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Not sure I understand what you mean. It's a different type of game > altogether? Yes, EQ (or "EQ live" or "EQ1" or "Original EQ") is a different game, with different underlying assumptions, different mechanics, different class progressions, different ideas about how quests should be done and so on.
You can't take your EQ1 character and move him to EQ2, nor can you make pretty much the same character over again.
Its sort of like chess and checkers, if checkers had been named "chess 2" in order to try and get chess players to try it out... and the similarities are along the same lines (both games share an 8x8 set of alternating red and black squares)
> Is there still a strong EQ1 community then? EQ1 is stronger than EQ2 these days, I think; it did lose quite a few people to EQ2, and even more to WoW, but it had already been hemoraging steadily and many of the people who defected returned to EQ1. The real problem with EQ1 is that while its always lost people, recently its stopped getting in as many new people as it loses; think of it as a death rate and a birth rate, if people die but more people are born, then you have growth, if not, well, your population gradually shrinks.
The real damage EQ2 inflicted on EQ1 was exactly that; new players don't know that EQ1 and EQ2 are two seperate games with their own positives and negatives, and that some players are going to prefer one, some the other; by calling it "EQ2" they created the impression you have, which is that EQ1 is the old game and EQ2 the new one. This isn't a case of Civ 1 being supplanted by Civ 2, and then by Civ 3, with a few diehards hanging on to Civ 2 because they didn't like the details of the change or because they are too cheap to buy the new one... but by calling it EQ2 they made it seem that way. So, new players tend to try EQ2, if that turns out not to be the style they like, they move off to WoW or something instead of trying "outdated" EQ1.
Truth is, while there are certainly some outdated mechanics around in EQ, its really the most robust MMOG out there today, because its sitting on top of what, 10 expansions, each the equivalent of half a new games' worth of new material, plus three or four upgrades to the GUI, plus quite a few free mini expansions adding new zones or reworking old ones and so on; there's a lot more content there than any of the "new" MMOG's have, simply because they have been able to space them out a couple per year and have them pay for themselves by people buying the expansions in box over the years... while new players can get them all in combinations, someone trying to do the same work now in a single release wouldn't have any hope of getting the same $500 or so per copy of the game.
Anything else you buy (including EQ2) is going to have to be smaller, and yet more than half the players out there are former EQ players, so your new game is going to have a bunch of people seeing it as tiny by comparison. Thats not to say they can't be better anyway... but thats because better is relative, the real question is which game style works better for you, there is no absolute "better" to it.
Lance
John Salerno - 04 Dec 2005 04:25 GMT > Yes, EQ (or "EQ live" or "EQ1" or "Original EQ") is a different game, > with different underlying assumptions, different mechanics, different > class progressions, different ideas about how quests should be done and > so on. Thanks for the explanation...although it makes the decision harder now! I didn't realize they weren't the same type of game. I knew EQ2 wasn't a sequel in that you had to play EQ first, but I figured it was sort of an upgraded EQ.
Faned - 05 Dec 2005 23:08 GMT <johnjsal@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> > Yes, EQ (or "EQ live" or "EQ1" or "Original EQ") is a different game, > > with different underlying assumptions, different mechanics, different [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > sequel in that you had to play EQ first, but I figured it was sort of an > upgraded EQ. They really should have named it something totally different. They shot themselves in the foot by naming it EQ2. It's not a sequel, an update, or really connected to EQ in any way except sharing a few names.
John Salerno - 06 Dec 2005 04:45 GMT > They really should have named it something totally different. They shot > themselves in the foot by naming it EQ2. It's not a sequel, an update, or > really connected to EQ in any way except sharing a few names. I know it isn't really a sequel, but I just thought it was sort of the next evolution of EQ, so to speak. Or perhaps "more of the same," but I never imagined it was something so different than EQ.
Richard Carpenter - 06 Dec 2005 20:49 GMT >> They really should have named it something totally different. They >> shot themselves in the foot by naming it EQ2. It's not a sequel, an [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > next evolution of EQ, so to speak. Or perhaps "more of the same," but > I never imagined it was something so different than EQ. "Next evolution" wouldn't be entirely incorrect, as long as you keep in mind just the sort of things evolution can involve and the degree to which it can have effect.
Enough of the core gameplay aspects were re-thought and redesigned to create a game that is different enough to attract players with different goals and interests. While there are certainly those who enjoyed both games, that I don't believe that to be the norm.
 Signature Richard Carpenter "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
Impmon - 03 Dec 2005 21:07 GMT >1. Am I able to play the game with just the main game itself, or does >playing it now require that I have all the expansions as well? What >would happen if I played with just the main game? Well, the game by itself is very small compared to the rest of the expansions. If you can find EQ Platinum box, it comes with all but the last 3 expansions for one price. Since the Platinum seems to have been discontinued recently, it is possible Sony will be releasing a newer compilation that covers up to current expansions (all 10)
>2. Is there any reason to think that EQ3 might be coming out soon? EQ 2 came out last year and original EQ have been around for more than 6 years. At this pace EQ 3 won't be out until 2010.
 Signature When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all.
David Van Cleef - 05 Dec 2005 03:48 GMT >>1. Am I able to play the game with just the main game itself, or does >>playing it now require that I have all the expansions as well? What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > been discontinued recently, it is possible Sony will be releasing a > newer compilation that covers up to current expansions (all 10) As of last week, Platinum is again available for download on the online store.
https://store.station.sony.com/game_index.jsp?gamecode=EQ
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