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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / August 2005Zones with Guards
Having developed a new charm based killing tactic, I'm looking for places to deploy it. Essentially, the idea is to find mobs who naturally hate each other, one of which doesn't hate me (a "guard"), and use that antipathy to get the killing done for me. So, what I'm looking for from you people are suggestions of zones where this sort of thing exists, with sufficiently high level mobs to make the tactic worthwhile. Proximity also helps, it won't be all that useful to have "guards" in one corner of the zone and the mobs they hate in the far corner. I started in Neth Lair, but at 29 the mobs were in the green to barely dark blue range, good for experimenting, not good for really getting good use from the plan. I'm working now in Great Divide, where the Coldain hate the Giants and their wolves (and vice versa, so if I was on the Giant team, I could use the plan in reverse) 42 suggested Echo Caverns; I'm not sure whether he means FG side or Deep side, on the FG side I think the mobs are going to be too low for me at 30... but maybe not, I never really did much in Echo. I recall in LOIO that the goblins hate the sarnaks... but lacking mem blur I don't think I can really use that to my advantage as boths sides hate me. Where else? Marus Seru guards will fight some of the mobs there and not others. Dawnshroud guards will fight some of the mobs and not others... how about the TM guards? Vampires will be too high level for me to land charm on at the moment, but I'm looking down the road for future targets too. Coldain guards in CC and in EW... I've run to coldain for rescue in both places, plus had a roaming coldain down at tentacles come and KS me, it would be good to put him to work! More? Midi, 30 bard Running a fine line here, using guards or mob aggro critters to "save" you has always been an accepted practice, however, using a non-aggro npc to do your fighting for you, probably against targets you would otherwise be unable to challange normally is seriously frowned upon. Although no direct action may be taken against you by a GM, you will probably find that either the hate list or combat ability of the guard you are using will be modified to prevent a questionable "exploit". The last example of this I saw, was the change in aggro status of the guard near Shadowhaven zone line in the upper level Echo side. She was regularly used to drag Fireclaw down to where she was able to take it down to about 20% health before getting herself killed. Last few times I've seen people try this, she has ignored the big beetle leaving the player scuttling to zone line themselves. Please consider other people and their future need of protection that you may alter for the sake of a few days xp. As a side note, get thee some sow potions and go kite in EW, lots of space to run around, virtually empty zone and still decent xp depending on what you're hunting all the way up to middle 40's > Running a fine line here, using guards or mob aggro critters to "save" > you has always been an accepted practice, however, using a non-aggro [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > space to run around, virtually empty zone and still decent xp > depending on what you're hunting all the way up to middle 40's He is in a guild that requires all members to use nothing but equipment that they can get at their level, they are not allowed to purchase items in the bazaar. They must hunt for, quest for, make their own equipment. He is the highest level character in the guild at level 30, so there are probably no shaman that can whip up sow potions for him in the guild. I don't recall all the exact details of the rules they play under, so I may have gotten some of it wrong, but that is the basic concept.  SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner hmm, bard and selos with a half decent twist or melody use then . . . . it's possible to get a nice set of combine drums from Katta Castellum, that would be more than useful in adding damage for just a few plat off of vendor. The sow potions just make life easier, but I spend a lot of time without them on alt, just draws out kiting time, however, that's just nit picking over a helpfull suggestion as to places to hunt where there is no dilemma over a possible cheat as was first queried. > hmm, bard and selos with a half decent twist or melody use then . . . . it's > possible to get a nice set of combine drums from Katta Castellum, that would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > helpfull suggestion as to places to hunt where there is no dilemma over a > possible cheat as was first queried. Selos works, as does chains... in fact I've done some pure bellow kiting with no run speed modifiers at all, some changes to run speed back about a year ago mean that mobs are no longer about 5% faster than PC's, so if you start with a lead you can retain it with a little care. On the other hand, at 30 kiting isn't a very good option for a bard; remember, we're looking at the short range DD Bellow and the decent Fufil's as the only sources of ranged damage. With my current drum that means 22 22+15 22+15 22 22+15 22+15 22 assuming I don't have to maintain a run speed modifier... but also assuming I manage to loop just right to maintain bellows range at all times while staying out of melee range. Admittedly, a huge improvement over 15 15 15 15 15... But its sure doesn't hold a candle to stacking DOTs. I'd rather stick to good honest charm killing, even one on one thats a MUCH higher DPS, as I get double the DPS of one mob, and mostly I kill mobs that are red to me. Without a SOW potion or something along those lines, I'm not going to charm swarm, as I'll end up losing more exp on the "whoops" deaths than I will gain swarming... but done right, its more like 5 times the DPS of a single mob; and better than anything anyone not twinked to the gills is likely to be able to lay down at my level. Midi > "RangerGirl" <kris@twoplates.f9.co.uk> wrote in >>As a side note, get thee some sow potions and go kite in EW, lots of >>space to run around, virtually empty zone and still decent xp [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > don't recall all the exact details of the rules they play under, so I may > have gotten some of it wrong, but that is the basic concept. Yes, the "make your own" part allows for acquiring the ingrediants and having a fellow guild member do the actual making part... but just as you suspected, there is no such person available thus far. Midi > Running a fine line here, using guards or mob aggro critters to "save" you > has always been an accepted practice, however, using a non-aggro npc to do [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the hate list or combat ability of the guard you are using will be modified > to prevent a questionable "exploit". My experience in the past month, since my return to the game, suggests that I could stand naked in POK using an exploit to kill the vendors there at first level, and I still wouldnt' see a GM; I've not only not seen a single one, but I've not heard a single person say that a petition was answered (and numerous people have complained long and hard about them NOT being answered). However, I don't avoid exploits merely for fear of getting caught, if the general consensus is that this is a "bad thing" I'd be happy to give it up, after all, I've already had most of the amusement out of discovering it in the first place. > The last example of this I saw, was the change in aggro status of the guard > near Shadowhaven zone line in the upper level Echo side. She was regularly > used to drag Fireclaw down to where she was able to take it down to about > 20% health before getting herself killed. Last few times I've seen people > try this, she has ignored the big beetle leaving the player scuttling to > zone line themselves. If they change the aggro status of the coldain to giants, they're going to run into some serious problems with some of the ring quests, where IIRC the most difficult part is preventing the damn coldain from engaging mobs they have no hope of killing! > Please consider other people and their future need of protection that you > may alter for the sake of a few days xp. Well, I'm not killing the guards, or at least rarely so (never killed one in NL, occaisionally lose one in GD). And I've almost never seen anyone running to the coldain for protection, even way back in the days when Velious was the latest release... they are too far from the giants, if you can make it to them, you can make it to the zone line, too. And they are plentiful; they exist in the same order of magnitude as the giants and drakkal wolves. AND, they are quite legitimately treated as prey by people who are working on giant faction instead of coldain faction. Lastly, I'll note that I'm seeing about 5 people in the entire zone, max, most much higher level than me; GD just isn't rocking these days! I agree, this is a potential item of concern, killing off guards which are actually used as protection would be rude, although I don't think thats actually the same thing as cheating. > As a side note, get thee some sow potions and go kite in EW, lots of space > to run around, virtually empty zone and still decent xp depending on what > you're hunting all the way up to middle 40's SOW potions, although extremely handy for a bard, aren't allowable within the terms of the ED oath; I'm sworn to use nothing but things I've looted, quested or bought from the unlimited stocks on vendors. Yes, SOW potions would fit within the "trade skills" exception: if I buy or loot the ingrediants myself, I can have another ED member make them for me... but ED doesn't thus far have a shaman capable of making SOW potions. Kiting, as a 30 bard, isn't much of an option, I've got ONE ranged DOT, and of course Bellow, which is very short range. Yes, I've done it, heck I've done it with just Bellow, but its slow going indeed. Thinking back to my previous bard, I recall that even with twisting 5 dots (using TBoots for speed instead of selos, or later using the long duration selos) and a significantly better drum than my current untwinked self can field, chant kiting was always slow going compared to using charm or fear kiting. I certainly can, however, kill mobs in EW by various other means, and have. Bards are the swiss army knife of classes; I've got a half dozen ways to hunt and do well... this was more along the means of an experiment with new (well new to me anyway) ways. I've been enjoying it because it's something different, and it does have its unique advantages, but its far from foolproof and actually not the most efficient means of gathering exp (swarm charm kiting, done properly, will usually be faster even if you don't count the time spent running the victim to the guards... which is significant). Midi In alt.games.everquest, Lance Berg <emporer@dejazzd.com> wrote: >there at first level, and I still wouldnt' see a GM; I've not only not >seen a single one, but I've not heard a single person say that a >petition was answered (and numerous people have complained long and hard >about them NOT being answered). People rarely report good news and almost always inflate bad news. That's life. Happy people don't moan. I can comment on three specific instances recently where petitions were raised by members of my guild, and answered in a reasonably timely manner by GM's to the player's satisfaction, including returning items handed to pets by accident, for example. SignatureTony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : David Gemmell Yeah, but what's the speed of DARK? Meet the wife : http://www.darkstorm.co.uk/grete >Happy people don't moan. They do if they're *really* happy. Ever seen Debbie Does Dallas? >>Happy people don't moan. > > They do if they're *really* happy. Ever seen Debbie Does Dallas? No, but I saw Fironae Does Freeport ;) Mike W. >> Running a fine line here, using guards or mob aggro critters to "save" >> you has always been an accepted practice, however, using a non-aggro npc [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that I could stand naked in POK using an exploit to kill the vendors there > at first level, and I still wouldnt' see a GM; Indeed. I saw a shout in PoK last night by a char named Shamanseller! It was selling a high level shaman account and was there for quite a while. I /report these clowns every time that I see them, but it's apparently not much of a deterrent because they keep coming back. /shrug Mike W. > > Running a fine line here, using guards or mob aggro critters to "save" you > > has always been an accepted practice, however, using a non-aggro npc to do [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > petition was answered (and numerous people have complained long and hard > about them NOT being answered). I've dealt with GMs thrice in the last 3 months. Petitions were resolved within 24 hours all 3 times. > > Please consider other people and their future need of protection that you > > may alter for the sake of a few days xp. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > faction. Lastly, I'll note that I'm seeing about 5 people in the entire > zone, max, most much higher level than me; GD just isn't rocking these days! xp isn't great in there these days. :/ >> Running a fine line here, using guards or mob aggro critters to >> "save" you has always been an accepted practice, however, using a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > already had most of the amusement out of discovering it in the first > place. I had a petition answered a week ago, about a day after I submitted it. I was not happy with the answer, but, someone did take the time to actually look at my petition, and answer it. <snip> >> As a side note, get thee some sow potions and go kite in EW, lots of >> space to run around, virtually empty zone and still decent xp [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > them for me... but ED doesn't thus far have a shaman capable of making > SOW potions. TBoots are probably your most likely answer as someone else posted. They should be achievable at level 30, might be a pain though, that is a lot of cash to raise at that level, and having never bought them myself, I am not even sure exactly where the gnome that sells them is. <snip> SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 37 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner > TBoots are probably your most likely answer as someone else posted. They > should be achievable at level 30, might be a pain though, that is a lot > of cash to raise at that level, and having never bought them myself, I am > not even sure exactly where the gnome that sells them is. I own several pair, on various characters, they are nearly as useful as JBoots and MUCH easier to get (got one pair of JBoots for one of my characters, and helped a couple other people get their's, I really don't find them worth the effort). On a bard they are more useful than on most, as bards don't have to stop running to activate them (or any other clicky) Getting to the mob in Sol A who sells them can be a little tricky, as there are see invis mobs in the way, if the place isn't being camped out for exp; lull can help, but its also fairly crowded with regular mobs, and the corridors are twisty, so finding a spot where you can lull a see invis mob while not exposing yourself to the regular ones can be... dicey. Still, that won't be as much of a concern as will getting that kind of cash together, working strictly on a selling to vendors basis; I can't go farm spiderling silks or anything like that. I've never really had to farm money at this level before without access to sales to players... the only serious option that comes to mind is the HG one, as cliched as that is. Midi > > TBoots are probably your most likely answer as someone else posted. They > > should be achievable at level 30, might be a pain though, that is a lot [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > and the corridors are twisty, so finding a spot where you can lull a see > invis mob while not exposing yourself to the regular ones can be... dicey. Yeah, but a duo should be able to make the trip easily. I held king room in SolA at 25th with a Pali friend. (I had a bard, both characters would have fit within your guilds rules if it had been around at the time... I was wearing quested newbie armour had bogling weapons, and was farming the lambant bits at the time, pali was wearing the Deep Sea Mail stuff for Eru palis -- the bp from Mugglewump. and the matching legs/arms; not sure whether he'd finished questing Ghoulebane at the time...) Getting to the gnome was already trivial at that point. > Still, that won't be as much of a concern as will getting that kind of > cash together, working strictly on a selling to vendors basis; I can't > go farm spiderling silks or anything like that. I've never really had > to farm money at this level before without access to sales to players... > the only serious option that comes to mind is the HG one, as cliched as > that is. Specters in Oasis are probably doable too...they're nice and slow so not having sow is less of an issue, and the scythes they drop range in value from a gold for a rusty to a dozen pp for a regular. They tend to be easier than giants, imo, and the xp will be pretty solid too. Hunting in SolA itself is also pretty good... FS drops like water in there. >> TBoots are probably your most likely answer as someone else posted. They >> should be achievable at level 30, might be a pain though, that is a lot [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >the only serious option that comes to mind is the HG one, as cliched as >that is. Try the Pandas in Stonebrunt if your rules dont allow to sell in the bazaar.I found they drop amazinlgy often a Mithril Amulet and gems in the same price range,maybe at the same time you can quest for "Wakizashi of the Frozen Sky" 22/6 with 80 damage proc 1hander, which maybe can be an update for one of your guildmates under the rules you are playing. Of course this wont be great cash as farming spiderling silks. Melforge 55 Ranger > The last example of this I saw, was the change in aggro status of the > guard near Shadowhaven zone line in the upper level Echo side. She was > regularly used to drag Fireclaw down to where she was able to take it down > to about 20% health before getting herself killed. Last few times I've > seen people try this, she has ignored the big beetle leaving the player > scuttling to zone line themselves. As of last week that still worked. >Having developed a new charm based killing tactic, I'm looking for >places to deploy it. Essentially, the idea is to find mobs who >naturally hate each other, one of which doesn't hate me (a "guard"), and >use that antipathy to get the killing done for me. This may or may not be an exploit - it'll depend on how effective it is, how widely it gets used, and the mood of the GM who sees it. There have been other tactics that involved getting xp/loot from mobs killing each other which have resulted in suspensions, permakilled mobs, and code changes. >So, what I'm looking for from you people are suggestions of zones where >this sort of thing exists, with sufficiently high level mobs to make the >tactic worthwhile. Describe the tactic, so we can have a better sense of requirements (and maybe even help refine it, or let you know whether it's been deemed an exploit or not). There aren't many mid- or high-level zones with guards that work this way, for obvious reasons. Have the lizards outside CT greened out to you? Ogre guards should fight them. Likewise the spectres outside PoFear. Both are a bit of a pull, though. Cyclopses in OOT, maybe as well. >42 suggested Echo Caverns; I'm not sure whether he means FG side or Deep > side, on the FG side I think the mobs are going to be too low for me >at 30... but maybe not, I never really did much in Echo. Nor I. FG may work for you, though. >I recall in LOIO that the goblins hate the sarnaks... but lacking mem >blur I don't think I can really use that to my advantage as boths sides >hate me. Depending on your plan, you may not need memblur. One standard charm tactic is to make 2 things fight, break charm when both are near death, nuke off the remaining HP for full XP on both. -- Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net <http://www.dagon.net/> > >Having developed a new charm based killing tactic, I'm looking for > >places to deploy it. Essentially, the idea is to find mobs who [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Nor I. FG may work for you, though. I did FG side. I used to hunt The Shissar thing in there with the help of the gaurds. > >I recall in LOIO that the goblins hate the sarnaks... but lacking mem > >blur I don't think I can really use that to my advantage as boths sides [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is to make 2 things fight, break charm when both are near death, nuke off the > remaining HP for full XP on both. Might as well just swarm kite then though. :) At any rate the no-jboots thing should be fairly short term. I'd be focussed on either getting a pair of jboots or tboots asap. I can raise a few hundred pp a night without really trying at 25-30th level just selling stuff to the venders. TBoots would only a take a couple weeks of leisurely farming. You'd just have to switch priorities from xp to cash. In Maru Seru, guards will fight lightcrawlers and zelniaks. The desert guys will fight lightcrawlers and zelniaks too. In DSP, the rockhoppers will aggro on the smugglers and the cave guys (down by ME). The Sanctus Seru guards don't fight anything. I did notice that a bloodstarved wolf did aggro one of the npcs in the house between the rockhoppers and Maiden's Eye tunnel, fyi. In Echo Caverns, the bulk of the mobs on the Deep side will start to go LB around late 40s or so. There is a group of four underbulks who are mostly lower level on a lower level (down an elevator) that the guards will fight. The guards and miners will aggro the underbulks and fungal fiend (looking mobs), but you have to be patient. It takes a while (probably just a few seconds, but they might seem very long seconds) for them to notice. Never took a stonegrabber to the guards (no need), but they drop fairly nice plat consistently. I used to train the two named to the guards (thought the named were too tough for me). It's been awhile so I don't know if anythings been changed. > Having developed a new charm based killing tactic, I'm looking for places > to deploy it. Essentially, the idea is to find mobs who naturally hate [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Midi, 30 bard Zone with guards that kill the mobs: North Karana -- Not your fast experience zone, but the guards at the tower and at the stone bridge will kill just about any intruder. These could include the Hill Giants and the Griffon family. The guards at the tower are of somewhat low level, the ones at the stone bridge are a bit higher. >Zone with guards that kill the mobs: North Karana -- Not your fast >experience zone, but the guards at the tower and at the stone bridge will >kill just about any intruder. These could include the Hill Giants and the >Griffon family. The guards at the NK towers don't kill griffons. Griffons kill the guards at the NK towers :-) |
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