Any advice for a sort of "noob" EQ player thinking of playing...

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abryant1@shaw.ca - 25 Jul 2005 18:15 GMT

I have played EQ briefly and from what I have seen it is a great game.
Does anyone have any advice for people thnking of playing ?

Thanks

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Marcel Beaudoin - 25 Jul 2005 18:22 GMT

abryant1@shaw.ca wrote in news:1122311747.453778.131380
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I have played EQ briefly and from what I have seen it is a great game.
> Does anyone have any advice for people thnking of playing ?

Check out the following posts by another noob (me!!) when I posted the same
question...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R39F24E7B

and

http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2AF62E7B

Also, ask any questions you have. The group is quite helpful and
informative!!

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Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/

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Geoffrey McIntosh - 26 Jul 2005 10:52 GMT

If you are thinking of playing do some research on the race and class of
characters. Each race/class have advantages and disadvantages. There are a
lot of sites out there about the various classes and you can find a lot of
tips on how to play them. You may also want to visit www.allakhazam.com and
www.eqtraders.com for information about the game.

> I have played EQ briefly and from what I have seen it is a great game.
> Does anyone have any advice for people thnking of playing ?
>
> Thanks

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Isloor - 26 Jul 2005 11:06 GMT

Play a cleric. :)

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Vladesch - 26 Jul 2005 13:54 GMT

>I have played EQ briefly and from what I have seen it is a great game.
> Does anyone have any advice for people thnking of playing ?
>
> Thanks

Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its players for
no reason.

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Rumbledor - 26 Jul 2005 14:58 GMT

>>I have played EQ briefly and from what I have seen it is a great game.
>> Does anyone have any advice for people thnking of playing ?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its players
> for no reason.

Pfft. It all depends on what you like. People who stuck with EQ aren't all
just stalwarts set in their ways and oblivious to the world around them any
more than everyone who left for WoW or EQ2 is some sort of pre-teen with a
short attention span.

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Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin

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abryant1@shaw.ca - 26 Jul 2005 20:51 GMT

> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its players for

no reason.

Actually I am a very seasoned MMORPG player (currently Playing WoW with
a 60 Warrior / 40 Rogue / 20 Priest). I could list off all the MMOs
that I have played but it would take me a while to do so..hehe
EQ left a very good taste in my mouth because it feels like no other
game that I have played before. WoW is a great game but its lack of
Support and horrible community (infested with imature kiddies) is
ruining the whole experience for me.

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Vladesch - 27 Jul 2005 14:30 GMT

>> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its players
>> for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Support and horrible community (infested with imature kiddies) is
> ruining the whole experience for me.

Everquest is a good game in many respects, but keying/flagging destroyed the
game for many players.
So if youve been in a good guild that has kept its membersahip over the
years, you probably enjoy it.
If you are a new player comtmplating joining, chances you will be locked out
of most of the content with no way to catch up.

I played for about 5 years, and was always in the "catching up" phase. The
guilds I was in continuously lost the stronger
player to higher level guilds, (Maybe I should have shafted my friends for
the sake of progression too), so as a guild we
were unable to progress. Guild after guild fell apart, and the problems wre
always major bottlenecks in the flagging process
... Getting the rift from emp for VT access (always cockblocked by other
guilds trying to keep us out of VT)
... Killing RZ... the encounter requiring a zerg force rather than
individual skill... which we couldnt muster being a guild of about 40 ppl
max.

Eventually I got past both of these to have that guild basically fall apart
when WOW started.
So excuse me if im somewhat jaded, but after paying for 2 server transfers
and being in about 4 different guilds, my advice to any new starting player
is to stay the hell away from this game. WOW may have its faults, bot in
terms of server reliability, and guild operas, but at least most of the
zones are open, and you can choose the limit of how high you want to raid,
rather than having to flag your way up to make "progress".

If eq were to simply remove flagging from the game, I would give it a
glowing endorsement. However despite the overwhelming majority of people
hating it, and losing half their clients, SOE have stuck with it, although
admittadely they have now provided "side quests" to flag yourself
individually, tho I believe these quests still require reagents from within
the zone you want to be flagged for, basically requiring you to sweet talk
your way into someone elses raid.

So there you have it.

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Faned - 27 Jul 2005 17:04 GMT

<vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote:

> >> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its players
> >> for
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> If you are a new player comtmplating joining, chances you will be locked out
> of most of the content with no way to catch up.

It's easier to "catch up" now, in all regards, than it ever has been in the
past. A completely brand new player can be ranked in the top 10 of his
class on his server within six months of play, something that has never been
a (realistic) possibility since the early Velious days, about five years ago.

> I played for about 5 years, and was always in the "catching up" phase. The
> guilds I was in continuously lost the stronger
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> individual skill... which we couldnt muster being a guild of about 40 ppl
> max.

Interestingly enough, it didn't actually "require" a zerg force. Rather, it
could be done with a zerg force. Or it could be done by a guild of about 40
people, all of whom had pride in their personal skill. Of course, the
latter required people of a particular mindset, which in turn required
"guild building" and a focus on goals over "friends" (coincidentally, people
who you work toward a common goal with generally become friendly, so this
isn't a case of needing to give up something).

> Eventually I got past both of these to have that guild basically fall apart
> when WOW started.

Perfect opportunity to go to a higher level guild since those "friends" who
you didn't want to shaft, ironically, were no longer a concern of yours. =P

> So excuse me if im somewhat jaded, but after paying for 2 server transfers
> and being in about 4 different guilds, my advice to any new starting player
> is to stay the hell away from this game. WOW may have its faults, bot in
> terms of server reliability, and guild operas, but at least most of the
> zones are open, and you can choose the limit of how high you want to raid,
> rather than having to flag your way up to make "progress".

Anybody who paid for two server transfers without a *real* good reason can
be assumed to have personality issues. This isn't me insulting you. This
is me telling you how guild leadership looks at applications of characters
that do such sorts of things.

> If eq were to simply remove flagging from the game, I would give it a
> glowing endorsement. However despite the overwhelming majority of people
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the zone you want to be flagged for, basically requiring you to sweet talk
> your way into someone elses raid.

You don't have a very firm grasp on the reasons for, implementation of, or
mechanics of the current flagging/backflagging process. It's a shame that
you have chosen to try to speak with "authority" and mislead people who
don't know enough to ignore your babbling.

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42 - 27 Jul 2005 19:47 GMT

> It's easier to "catch up" now, in all regards, than it ever has been in the
> past. A completely brand new player can be ranked in the top 10 of his
> class on his server within six months of play, something that has never been
> a (realistic) possibility since the early Velious days, about five years ago.

Sure if you get gimped through everything by high level players its easy
as pie. Trying to actually earn your progression is a nightmare that's
actually been exacerbated by how easy its gotten to just get gimped
through if you know the right people.

> Of course, the
> latter required people of a particular mindset, which in turn required
> "guild building" and a focus on goals over "friends" (coincidentally, people
> who you work toward a common goal with generally become friendly, so this
> isn't a case of needing to give up something).

Sacrificing "friends" to join a new group of people focussed on
"similiar goals" whom you'll eventually make "friends" with is still a
sacrifice. Especially if its "RL friends who also play EQ" you are
sacrificing in exchange for "online-only everquest fixated facsimilies".

> > Eventually I got past both of these to have that guild basically fall apart
> > when WOW started.
>
> Perfect opportunity to go to a higher level guild since those "friends" who
> you didn't want to shaft, ironically, were no longer a concern of yours. =P

Hehe.

> > So excuse me if im somewhat jaded, but after paying for 2 server transfers
> > and being in about 4 different guilds, my advice to any new starting player
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> is me telling you how guild leadership looks at applications of characters
> that do such sorts of things.

/shrug you ran your guilds as you saw fit I'm sure. There are plenty of
reasons to xfer servers... its been over FIVE years now. 2 server
transfers in 5 years doesn't scream personality problem to me. It bears
looking into, but at this stage of the game its not even THAT unusual.
Especially as many people change servers to hookup with RL friends.

> > If eq were to simply remove flagging from the game, I would give it a
> > glowing endorsement. However despite the overwhelming majority of people
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> you have chosen to try to speak with "authority" and mislead people who
> don't know enough to ignore your babbling.

As I said to Graeme, I feel the current backflagging process actually
harms legitimate raid progression of guilds who haven't already gotten
past it. Its easier to get high level friends to now effectively gimp
you're entire guild through -- they only have to gimp a small critical
mass through before they can start gimping their own members. This is
proving to be easier and more efficient than doing raid progression.

While I'm not upset that theres an alternate flagging in place, I'm
disgusted by what its doing to "guild building and pride" in lower end
guilds.

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Graeme Faelban - 27 Jul 2005 20:17 GMT

> In article <slrndefc59.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net
> says...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> disgusted by what its doing to "guild building and pride" in lower end
> guilds.

Being in a guild that is indeed quite proud of our accomplishments, as
minor as they may seem to uber guilds, I do agree with you on this point.
On the other hand, not having to repeat all of those flagging mobs in
order to get new guild members up to a point of being able to raid with
us is a blessing. We have done all those flagging mobs many times, we
know we can beat them, doing them yet again and again and again would
likely destroy the guild as the people who are already flagged, and will
get zero upgrades from the reflagging process get bored with it and move
on.

On the other hand, the elemental alternate flagging is accomplished by
defeating the elemental god of the plane in question, and as such, cannot
be done by a small group and gimp a whole guild in. I don't honestly
know what the alternate flagging is for the pre elemental zones. The
only way you could gimp a guild into being elemental flagged would be to
essentially bring the entire guild (or most of it anyway) along on a raid
on the elemental god. Not something that a small group of friends can
accomplish. Elemental flagged people can gimp a friend into the
elemental plane with them to xp there, but they cannot flag that friend
in that manner, unless there is another alternate method for elemental
flagging that I am unaware of.

Is there a single group method of getting elemental flagged now?

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On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner

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42 - 27 Jul 2005 20:58 GMT

> > In article <slrndefc59.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net
> > says...
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Is there a single group method of getting elemental flagged now?

Lol. I might be bitching in the hypothetical this time ;)

I hadn't looking over all the alternate access quests, and glancing over
them now it seems many of them still involve killing a god, which
prevents guild bootstrapping.

Whew.

Bitching withdrawn.

That said, I have heard people talking about how they're getting flags
with one group so they don't need to be 85'd in...I'm not sure what its
all about now.

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Graeme Faelban - 27 Jul 2005 21:07 GMT

>> > In article <slrndefc59.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net
>> > says...
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> with one group so they don't need to be 85'd in...I'm not sure what
> its all about now.

Many of the pre-elemental zones have an alternate flagging method, that
has existed actually since PoP was introduced. This alternate method
allowed you access to the zone in question, but did not give you the
progression flag. It would allow you to zone into Tactics for example,
but, you still would need to do the progression mobs leading up to
Tactics, if you wanted to get elemental flagged, unless you were 85/15ed
into a raid on an elemental god.

The new backflagging alternative that was added (well, not so new now),
was that by joining a raid that kills the boss mob of a zone, you can get
the flag for that zone, if you do not already have it, at least that's
how it works for elemental zones. I admit to not being familiar with the
pre elemental backflagging alternative methods (if such exist).

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Vladesch - 27 Jul 2005 20:51 GMT

> <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote:
>> >> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its players
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> a (realistic) possibility since the early Velious days, about five years
> ago.

So you say. Having not played EQ for 9 months I guess I cant argue on that
one. Pretty amazing turnaround tho....

>> I played for about 5 years, and was always in the "catching up" phase.
>> The
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> who you work toward a common goal with generally become friendly, so this
> isn't a case of needing to give up something).

We did it with 45, but that was much later, with better gear and lots of
aa's. That doesnt excuse the roadblock that destroyed many guilds and caused
many to quit, not to mentioned those that were cockblocked on RZ. (I notice
you avoided saying anything about the emp cockblock)

>> Eventually I got past both of these to have that guild basically fall
>> apart
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> you didn't want to shaft, ironically, were no longer a concern of yours.
> =P

Which is exactly what I did, unfortuantely it required a server transfer to
find a guild that raided my time. (Which cost over $200 for 2 accounts,
another reason to avoid the sony rip off machine)

>> So excuse me if im somewhat jaded, but after paying for 2 server
>> transfers
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> is me telling you how guild leadership looks at applications of characters
> that do such sorts of things.

See above. Thanks for the veiled insult tho.

>> If eq were to simply remove flagging from the game, I would give it a
>> glowing endorsement. However despite the overwhelming majority of people
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> you have chosen to try to speak with "authority" and mislead people who
> don't know enough to ignore your babbling.

Notice how he doesnt include any detail of his own. Basically just a "You're
wrong".
Ill leave it up to the reader to decide who's babbling.

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Graeme Faelban - 27 Jul 2005 21:02 GMT

>> <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote:
>>> If eq were to simply remove flagging from the game, I would give it
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> "You're wrong".
> Ill leave it up to the reader to decide who's babbling.

He provided the reason for adding the alternate flagging elsewhere, as
did I. It was added to allow guilds to flag new guildmembers without
having to go through the entire progression yet again to backflag
someone. The side quests do not require reagents from the zone you want
to be flagged for, they require a raid (not necessarilly a large one)
that has most of the people flagged already (enough to gimp in the
unflagged). The one exception I know of off hand is the alternate quest
for Sol Ro access which involves killing a mob that many classes can solo
in Western Wastes.

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Graeme Faelban - 27 Jul 2005 17:56 GMT

>>> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its
>>> players for
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> If you are a new player comtmplating joining, chances you will be
> locked out of most of the content with no way to catch up.

I am in a guild that almost fell apart more than once, but, we recruited,
we worked our butts off, we figured out ways to defeat encounters with
less people, and we kept at it. Recently we merged with another guild
that was significantly behind us on progression, and backflagged using a
combination of hitting the flag mobs once, and using the alternate
flagging available. We have lost some people to the uber guilds, but we
always managed to carry on, even recruiting people from some of those
uber guilds who were not interested in being in a full time raiding
guild.

> I played for about 5 years, and was always in the "catching up" phase.
> The guilds I was in continuously lost the stronger
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> individual skill... which we couldnt muster being a guild of about 40
> ppl max.

Well, no, it required either a zerg force, or a smaller force that worked
well together, and used tactics. Being in a guild that is not Time
flagged yet, but still has managed to drop RZ with under 40 people, I
think I can say that with authority. Even now, after our merger, the
maximum we field for a raid is about 60 people, it's been over a year
since we have fielded a full raid.

> Eventually I got past both of these to have that guild basically fall
> apart when WOW started.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> how high you want to raid, rather than having to flag your way up to
> make "progress".

Can't speak for WoW, never tried it, have no intentions of doing so
anytime soon, as I am still having fun in EQ.

> If eq were to simply remove flagging from the game, I would give it a
> glowing endorsement. However despite the overwhelming majority of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> reagents from within the zone you want to be flagged for, basically
> requiring you to sweet talk your way into someone elses raid.

The reason for the alternate way of backflagging was to allow guilds to
recruit people, and get them flagged for the zone(s) that the guild is
actually raiding without having to go back and do the entire progression
sequence yet again. It was not added in order to give unguilded players
a way to get the flags.

As for the PoP progression in general, I have mixed feelings about it.
On the one hand, the feeling of finally beating one of the flagging mobs
was always great, on the other hand, prior to them adding the alternate
flagging methods, having to go back and backflag people repeatedly sucked
big time. It was also quite annoying to constantly get asked if I want
to group somewhere that I was not yet flagged for. Now, all it takes to
zone into the flag required zones is 5 flagged people in your group.

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42 - 27 Jul 2005 19:21 GMT

> >>> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its
> >>> players for
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
> sequence yet again. It was not added in order to give unguilded players
> a way to get the flags.

So what if that was its intention? Its still broken. Categorically
stupid even.

As a significant side effect its gone and allowed the casuals with high
level friends and alts of high levels a new quick way to get flags.

If you simply happen to know people with flags then its easy to get
them. If you don't its *much* tougher.

Can you imagine if LDoN worked like that... If you group with someone
with 1000s of points you get 1000s of points after completing an
adventure. Or Kunark... if you group with someone with their epic you
can do a little quick shortcut quest to get your own. Or Luclin... if
you know someone with their VT key you can skip camping the shards doing
emperor and just do a little turn in quest with the luclinite instead...

Sure these all would have been convenient for high level guilds with new
members...

The trouble should be obvious though. Making a shortcut quest that you
can do if you "know" somebody, however makes it more effiecient for up
and coming guilds and players to NOT do things on their own, but instead
beg higher level players to gimp them through the shortcuts.

PoP flags are worse than all my examples because they are such a
gigantic shortcut that its orders of magnitude more efficient to get
gimped through the side quest with some high level friends than to
progress with your own guild.

> As for the PoP progression in general, I have mixed feelings about it.
> On the one hand, the feeling of finally beating one of the flagging mobs
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> to group somewhere that I was not yet flagged for. Now, all it takes to
> zone into the flag required zones is 5 flagged people in your group.

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Faned - 27 Jul 2005 20:34 GMT

<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> > > If eq were to simply remove flagging from the game, I would give it a
> > > glowing endorsement. However despite the overwhelming majority of
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> gimped through the side quest with some high level friends than to
> progress with your own guild.

What are you smoking? I thought Vlad the Inhaler's comments were
misleading, and you've got him beat with the opposite extreme. There are a
*few* (very few) backflag quests that are obviously intended to open up
zones to non-raiders (the one for access to Sol Ro Tower comes to mind) by
providing a single group accessible entrance path.

You're not getting Time flagged with "some high level friends" unless your
definition of "some" is somewhere north of 30 people. You're not getting
flagged for the elemental planes through the backflagging option without
somewhere north of 30 to 50 people (at least). Those number requirements
are pretty constant across the whole back-flagging spectrum. You need 18
people in a raid simply to start the instanced expeditions for a lot of the
backflagging options, with no consideration given to whether you can
actually accomplish it with only 18 people. They are obviously intended to
give guilds a less taxing method of getting new members "up to speed". In
that, I think they do a pretty good job.

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Graeme Faelban - 27 Jul 2005 20:56 GMT

> <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> PoP flags are worse than all my examples because they are such a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> open up zones to non-raiders (the one for access to Sol Ro Tower comes
> to mind) by providing a single group accessible entrance path.

Soloable entrance path (OK, soloable for solo classes anyway). I assume
this is the WW mob?

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Meldur - 28 Jul 2005 12:30 GMT

>>> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its players
>>> for
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
>So there you have it.

Flagging has become worse since you played,its now even harder
because of lower population.

Mheldur

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Meldur - 28 Jul 2005 12:28 GMT

> WoW is a great game but ...its horrible community (infested with imature kiddies) is
>ruining the whole experience for me.

Exactly,players made me flee when I dinged 9.

Meldur

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stanmann - 26 Jul 2005 23:12 GMT

That is an interesting point, but the steady trickle of those returning
seems to suggest that Everquest still has something the others don't.
I would suggest that it has two somethings the others don't and both
are maturity. First Everquest unlike any of the new games and any of
its contemporaries has a Mature sophisticated challenging end-game.
Second Everquest has a Mature and dedicated community which is enhanced
by the community tools. On some of the other games I have played,
other players or groups were rarely memorable because teamwork and
co-ordination in a group isn't that important. In everquest I STILL
find myself making mental notes and sometimes written ones of
outstandingly good or bad players, yes there are still mediocre players
where nothing was particularly memorable, but the exceptional
player(good or bad) appears to not be the exception in everquest. OTOH
my experience, and reports from others are that exceptional players and
groups are truly rare, I'm not sure if this speaks to the game engine
or to the player skill level, but it most certainly speaks to why EQ is
still worth playing.

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stanmann - 26 Jul 2005 23:17 GMT

Apologies for the double post, Google appears to have some problems
with quoting on a simple reply.

> >I have played EQ briefly and from what I have seen it is a great game.
> > Does anyone have any advice for people thnking of playing ?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Try some other online games first. EQ didnt lose over half its players for
> no reason.

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larrylard@hotmail.com - 27 Jul 2005 13:54 GMT

> Apologies for the double post, Google appears to have some problems
> with quoting on a simple reply.

If you set about training yourself to always click 'show options', then
the Reply link that appears in the header - rather than the Reply link
already visible below the post - then you will quickly make this a
habit, and always have quoted material ready in your reply.

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Larry Lard
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