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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / July 2005An unbiassed look at the Cleric OoW spells :p
Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line? 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line? 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns* 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line? 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns* Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67) 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns* 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns* 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line? 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns* 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns* 6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns* Muramite Rune (Level 68) 1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns* 2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns* 3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns* 4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns* 5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns* Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69) 1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns* 2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns* 3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns* 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns* 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line? Mheldur 66 Cleric,thinking of deleveling > Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) > 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* > 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line? Never. Mostly pointless line that is beneficial to the cleric only, and in only limited situations. > 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line? Everytime a tank wants the highest hp total possible without sacrificing AC. > 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns* > 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line? Doing signets to get into Anguish, let my 3-box team skip large chunks of some instances. > 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns* > > Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67) > 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns* > 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns* > 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line? Clerics don't nuke. Could take all of them away and most wouldn't care. > 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns* > 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Mheldur 66 Cleric,thinking of deleveling Where you will have, at various levels: 1. Lower numbers *yawns* 2. Lower numbers *yawns* 3. Lower numbers *yawns* 4. A nuke that nobody uses. 5. Lower numbers *yawns* Clerics are a fairly one-dimensional class. Playing a cleric at 40 isn't very different from playing a cleric at 70. The upshot is that clerics are the undisputed most powerful class, partly because they *are* so focused in their abilities. >> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) >> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >the undisputed most powerful class, partly because they *are* so focused in >their abilities. It's been many months since I looked at the enchanters spell list but it seems to me that it was the same for chanters, any maybe for all the classes. All that was happening 66-70 was that my spells were being upgraded so they were "level-appropriate". For example, instead of mez being capped at 65, I could mez stuff that was level 68. Does any class get any startling new abilities in the 66-70 range?? >>Clerics are a fairly one-dimensional class. Playing a cleric at 40 isn't >>very different from playing a cleric at 70. The upshot is that clerics are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of mez being capped at 65, I could mez stuff that was level 68. Does > any class get any startling new abilities in the 66-70 range?? Mine did, but they were in AA's not spells, and badly needed. Clerics and chanters needed no power boost (aside from the usual bigger numbers with the higher level spells) cheers, James >> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) >> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* >> 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line? > >Never. Mostly pointless line that is beneficial to the cleric only, and in >only limited situations. Thought the non-Aegolism line was mostly for dispelling mobs. That way they didn't lose all their benefits in one dispell of Conviction or the like. >> 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Clerics don't nuke. Could take all of them away and most wouldn't care. Some do. I've been in groups where there was a druid as well and I can tell you that when the druid healed and I went into battle, well, I had some decent DPS. At 67, with the latest summoned hammer (even against non-undead), haste, and Reproach, I was out damaging the tank by a ways. Of course if I have no backup healer then yea, I rarely nuke. But it's still nice, especially when solo'ing. >> 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns* >> 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >the undisputed most powerful class, partly because they *are* so focused in >their abilities. Their strength lies in keeping others alive to do what they do best. But I think clerics are more versatile than most think. If you've ever read some of Monual's tales you'll hear about some non-cleric like things being done. ~F >>Clerics don't nuke. Could take all of them away and most wouldn't care. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Of course if I have no backup healer then yea, I rarely nuke. But >it's still nice, especially when solo'ing. I nuke a lot,have 145 AAs,SCF5 atm,planning to get all the SCF AAs. Mostly I am fm,even in highest level zones that are in my reach at 66 like DoNs with level 70 groups or MPG.I know someone will come and say the group is pulling too slow,but realistically there are always short breaks between pulls. This leads back to the point of my initial post,by raising the level cap to 70 and give Clerics only useless spells,SOE found a way to make Clerics less powerful for some time.Surely my 66 Cleric is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, awful mana/hps-healed ratio) >>Clerics are a fairly one-dimensional class. Playing a cleric at 40 isn't >>very different from playing a cleric at 70. The upshot is that clerics are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >ever read some of Monual's tales you'll hear about some non-cleric >like things being done. Very true,I melee a lot,since the Ward of Venegance line I could even tank if the groups would let me. =) Mheldur 66 Cleric > >>Clerics don't nuke. Could take all of them away and most wouldn't care. > > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Very true,I melee a lot,since the Ward of Venegance line I could even > tank if the groups would let me. =) That single spell alone has turned clerics into one of the most powerful soloers. Notice, I didn't say "best", as they are still dog slow about getting something dead. It's hilarious and humbling to watch a well-played, well-equipped cleric soloing some big nasty mob I wouldn't dream of trying to even 3-box like discordling warfiend. =) >is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, >awful mana/hps-healed ratio) Even with no AA's (Is there such a thing as a 70 with NO AA's, not even basic stuff like healing adept?) all it takes is an OOW focus item to make that level 66 heal worthwhile. And with full AA's, a good focus, and a crit heal it's essentially a cheal. >Very true,I melee a lot,since the Ward of Venegance line I could even >tank if the groups would let me. =) My cleric duos with necros and wizards all the time, even before Ward of Vengeance. Cast elixir on self on pull, stun, nuke, and I can generally keep aggro even when they start nuking. If there's a real tank though the reason not to tank has nothing to do with cleric-ness per se but simply that a real tank can manage aggro so much better. Well, except for anything worth killing :-) :-) :-) _real_ mobs still one round me. >>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >is an OOW focus item to make that level 66 heal worthwhile. And >with full AA's, a good focus, and a crit heal it's essentially a cheal. For those who dont know Cleric spells Pious Remedy heals 1990 hps(2100 with Cleric bonus?) for 495 mana. Complete heal is 7500 hitpoints for 400 Mana . Crits work on Complete Heal too. Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster. Mheldur 66 cleric >For those who dont know Cleric spells Pious Remedy heals >1990 hps(2100 with Cleric bonus?) for 495 mana. >Complete heal is 7500 hitpoints for 400 Mana . >Crits work on Complete Heal too. >Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster. (1990 + (1990 * (.25 + .28 + .05))) * 2 = 6288.4. I still think that's practically a cheal. Even at a "base" 3144 it's enough to take the tank from 5% to 30%, or a caster to almost full health. And don't forget that mana preservation foci work on PR, making the mana cost closer to 420. The big win here is the cast time. I find myself chaining this in emergencies, and the extra 40 mana doesn't matter so much right then. Cheal's great if you *have* 10 seconds :-) > The big win here is the cast time. I find myself chaining > this in emergencies, and the extra 40 mana doesn't matter so much right > then. Cheal's great if you *have* 10 seconds :-) Yep, its not the effiency that matter with Pious, its not having a party wipe cos you only use CH.... SoE I believe are trying to phase out the CH chains....and replace them with PR chains. Wow. -Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster- As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more so that your MA will die on certain named if you don't use faster heals. Keep in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms) which are generally easy to aquire now and the correct healing focus Pious Remedy can be crit for 7100. What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not healing them at all causing the group to potentially wipe? __________________________________________________________ Submitted by: Sweetsong This message was submitted through the Erollisi Marr Forum >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster- > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not healing >them at all causing the group to potentially wipe? But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob. Mheldur 66 cleric > >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster- > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the > HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob. Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to. You *will* get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from landing. =) >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster- >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to. You *will* >get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from landing. =) Weird,I do it all the time. Mheldur 66 Cleric > >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster- > >> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mheldur 66 Cleric Just a fair warning. I've seen it happen more than a few times. Hell, I've been on both ends of the bitching. =) >> >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster- >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Just a fair warning. I've seen it happen more than a few times. > Hell, I've been on both ends of the bitching. =) Do they not stack? Or is it an issue of buff slots? I have never heard of this issue either.  SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote: > >> >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster- > >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Do they not stack? Or is it an issue of buff slots? I have never heard > of this issue either. Purely an issue of buff slots. It's actually *more* of an issue at the range Mheldur will be playing at, as by the time you're raiding Anguish you expect all your tanks to have at least a couple extra buff slots. It's not only a matter of DI either. A mob that dispels *and* has an AE that must be cured off the MT means that an elixir hitting at the wrong time can lead to a domino effect of the MT losing one important buff after another. > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > wrong time can lead to a domino effect of the MT losing one important > buff after another. At the moment, the number of dispelling targets we are hitting is minimal, and the tank had better have enough open slots for HoTs firing during the raid, MGB and otherwise. I've also noticed that on the few dispelling ones we have been hitting recently, the buff dispelled is much more random now than it used to be, for example the dispellers in Tactics on the way to doing RZ/TZ/VZ, they no longer take off the top buff, it is now random. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote: > > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > minimal, and the tank had better have enough open slots for HoTs firing > during the raid, MGB and otherwise. Another reason, though not as much of an issue, is that a single-target elixir will block/overwrite a slightly lesser-powered but *much* longer lasting AE HoT. > I've also noticed that on the few dispelling ones we have been hitting > recently, the buff dispelled is much more random now than it used to be, > for example the dispellers in Tactics on the way to doing RZ/TZ/VZ, they > no longer take off the top buff, it is now random. Starting a derail now... You know, that has been said many times over the past *years*, and I still keep junk buffs in my top 2 slots and can count the number of times a mob dispel has taken an unplanned buff on one hand, versus the thousands and thousands of times I've refreshed those top 2 junk buffs after dispels, all the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, literally everything, in between. > Starting a derail now... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, literally everything, in > between. There has GOT to be some legitimate explanation for the discrepency. Because for me its nearly always completely random too. I keep junk in my top two slots (clicky atk & damage shield) and mobs skip them as often as not. Just randomly punching holes in my buff window. If I get hit with a big dispell on a full buff window I'll have holes. Sooo.... There are several possibilities: 1) The mobs you fight use dispels that knock them off the top while the ones I fight dispel randomly. 2) There is some formula that's applied to determine which buff slots get stripped, and in your case it invariably chooses the top two. a) Perhaps the dispell walks your buff list, and the junk buffs you happen to use in the first 2 slots are particularly vulnerable to dispells so it never goes deeper...there's a lot of possible formulations that could yield something like this. b) Perhaps there is a static aspect of your character tied to seeding the random number generator... and for you it just always comes up 1 then 2. c) Perhaps there is an issue related to a "resist check" that's based on relative level... perhaps when fighting very high con red raid mobs they always make the check, so its always your first two. While I fight a lot more blues - yellows so my buffs often resist the debuff allowing deeper buffs to try (and fail) to resist being dispelled. d) Perhaps there is a "resist check" related to, say, Magic resist and perhaps you have very high MR so all your buffs make the resist check as it walks your buff list. And then if it reaches the end of the buff list and still owes you a dispell it just takes the first ones. I don't know... but I can state unequivically that I cannot rely on buffs being dropped out of MY top slots at all. They get left behind as often as not. <nospam@nospam.com> wrote: > > Starting a derail now... > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 1) The mobs you fight use dispels that knock them off the top while the > ones I fight dispel randomly. From the lowliest wizard froggy in Guk to the red-con trash mobs in Anguish... There aren't many people that can claim to have stepped foot in every zone in the game, but I'm one. The dispel behavior never changes. =) > 2) There is some formula that's applied to determine which buff slots > get stripped, and in your case it invariably chooses the top two. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dispells so it never goes deeper...there's a lot of possible > formulations that could yield something like this. Except that when (and this applies to "d" below as well) I actually get buffed after a rez without asking, so that I don't have the opportunity to make sure that my buffs get set up in the right order, I can count on asking for those buffs that land in my top slots again after my first dispel. > b) Perhaps there is a static aspect of your character tied to seeding > the random number generator... and for you it just always comes up 1 > then 2. Quite possible. Anecdotally unlikely, however. The admonition to raids to "get clickies up top" before dispelling targets throughout the eras suggests that the behavior is as it always has been. Personal experience listening to the people who complain about, using a current dispelling target of mine as an example, Ture, and the personal experience of listening to those people (including me) who laugh at them for not having clickies to deal with it, suggests likewise. > c) Perhaps there is an issue related to a "resist check" that's based on > relative level... perhaps when fighting very high con red raid mobs they > always make the check, so its always your first two. While I fight a lot > more blues - yellows so my buffs often resist the debuff allowing deeper > buffs to try (and fail) to resist being dispelled. I can count on the same behavior from mobs in DoN missions who cast single-target annul magic as well. I *always* keep junk buffs on top, even while grinding. Being the default puller 99.9% of the time leads to certain habits. =) > d) Perhaps there is a "resist check" related to, say, Magic resist and > perhaps you have very high MR so all your buffs make the resist check as > it walks your buff list. And then if it reaches the end of the buff list > and still owes you a dispell it just takes the first ones. See above for a related response. > I don't know... but I can state unequivically that I cannot rely on > buffs being dropped out of MY top slots at all. They get left behind as > often as not. I have had instances where buffs seemed to get dispelled out of order. The unique thing about those instances though, when I had the opportunity to do so, if I buffed in such a way that my junk buffs landed in those slots, from then on (until I zoned) I would lose those slots first with every dispel. It was as though my buff slots had been shuffled up. And when I zoned out, assuming I didn't manage to die to accomplish zoning, my buffs would end up rearranged, and, you guessed it, those would be my top slots. I'm not sure what would cause such a thing, though it does seem to happen after being killed once or twice in the same zone. It's rare for me, and not the easiest thing to test with any sort of scientific process. > <nospam@nospam.com> wrote: >> I don't know... but I can state unequivically that I cannot rely on [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > for me, and not the easiest thing to test with any sort of scientific > process. As I said in another reply, my experience had been identical to yours up until our last few runs in tactics this past month or so. I put my 9th coldain ring buff in my top slot, as I always have done in tactics, got the rest of my buffs, and never once did I have to refresh the ring buff, but I did have to get new conviction, c6, and a couple of self buffs, several times during the runs. It was really odd, and I was far from the only one in the raid complaining about this behavior. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner > <nospam@nospam.com> wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Anguish... There aren't many people that can claim to have stepped foot in > every zone in the game, but I'm one. The dispel behavior never changes. =) Hmm well actually I believe it does change, but it depends on the type of dispell they cast, or possibly more to do with the era. For example, any mob that AOE dispells in my experience will take from the top slot down. Dragons in HoT are an example of this (Dozekar). Any mob that actually casts SINGLE dispell on you, will remove a random buff. Frogs in Old Sebilis are an example of this. Some of the newer AOE dispells may be random also. <ask.me.for@it.com> wrote: > > <nospam@nospam.com> wrote: > > > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Some of the newer AOE dispells may be random also. I'd have to also disagree here. The vast majority of the times that I get dispelled I'm the only one getting dispelled by some cleric/wizard trash mob casting annul magic (several variations, dispelling 1, 2, or 4 buffs). The AE mobs are just the ones where I can get info from a large segment of people all at once. > <nospam@nospam.com> wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Anguish... There aren't many people that can claim to have stepped foot in > every zone in the game, but I'm one. The dispel behavior never changes. =) I think its generally accepted even by those of us who are claiming that the random dispells are a 'current' phenomena. Have you been dispelled by frog wizard in guk within the last couple years ? :) We should assume SOE is changing things on us. And we should assume old data should be considered unreliable. > > 2) There is some formula that's applied to determine which buff slots > > get stripped, and in your case it invariably chooses the top two. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > "get clickies up top" before dispelling targets throughout the eras suggests > that the behavior is as it always has been. As others have noted, as I was about to suggest myself, AOE dispels may be treated differently than other ones, or perhaps its certain proc dispells vs cast spells... or... or... Yeah i realize that doesn't line up with your DoN experience. But the fact is, your experience doesn't match mine, especially in the last several months. I'm also in the habit of always having my clickies up top...(because it USED to work) but for the last several months it hasn't helped in many many places I've gone. > > I don't know... but I can state unequivically that I cannot rely on > > buffs being dropped out of MY top slots at all. They get left behind as [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > assuming I didn't manage to die to accomplish zoning, my buffs would end up > rearranged, and, you guessed it, those would be my top slots. I get "randomly" dispelled so often the game hiccup theory doesn't sound adequate. That said, I should spend some time analyzing if its always the same slots that get nailed first in any given zone session. > I'm not sure what would cause such a thing, though it does seem to happen > after being killed once or twice in the same zone. It's rare for me, and > not the easiest thing to test with any sort of scientific process. Its too bad we can't rely on player dispels to gather data. I'm going to drag a couple alts to skyfire today and fool around I won't be able to get well rounded data, but chromodracs do dispell with freakish regularity... not sure if they're on my 'sequential' or 'random' dispell category... but if its random I might be able to get some data. > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote: >> I've also noticed that on the few dispelling ones we have been [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > after dispels, all the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, > literally everything, in between. Up until our last couple of runs in Tactics, I would have agreed with you 100%. I kept one junk buff up always, and never once had anything but that top buff dispelled in tactics. In our last 3 or 4 runs through tactics, it has been random buffs every single time. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner >But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the >HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob. You mean the level 61 (2? whatever) one? It's like 500 points less base which is like 800 less after foci etc. That really is enough to matter in these situations. HOT won't begin to keep up with an unslowed named at this level. What I typically see is something like 'Whoops! Add Nasty Noobeater!" then me chain casting PR until someone gets the thing slowed and I can do my usual HOT/Cheal routine. No one uses the 61 spell after they get PR, I mean, I've seen raids done using nothing but PR on the MT... >>>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >>>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, awful [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Crits work on Complete Heal too. > Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster. Yeah, and when the tank dies 9 seconds into your CHeal, how do you feel about that? There is plenty of place for fast casting heals in the game. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner >>>>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >>>>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, awful [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Yeah, and when the tank dies 9 seconds into your CHeal, how do you feel >about that? There is plenty of place for fast casting heals in the game. I wouldnt say plenty,and the level 62 fast heal does the job too,especially with all the AAs mentioned here in this thread, which are pretty off-topic. And please do not assume,that I dont know when to use a fast heal or a complete heal,I was using Complete heal to make it obvious how laughable the mana cost is on PR. Mheldur 66 Cleric > >>>>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and > >>>>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, awful [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > heal or a complete heal,I was using Complete heal to make it > obvious how laughable the mana cost is on PR. The mana cost isn't laughable. The mana cost is balanced in such a way as to make you have to decide whether you want the efficiency of CH or the certainty of a faster heal. >>>>>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >>>>>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > heal or a complete heal,I was using Complete heal to make it > obvious how laughable the mana cost is on PR. Well, we use fast heals on many encounters, probably more than CHeal rotations at this point. I would venture to say that I see CHeal used more in single group xping than I do in raids now. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner >>>>>>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >>>>>>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >rotations at this point. I would venture to say that I see CHeal used >more in single group xping than I do in raids now. I just finished PoP progression up to being able to enter Earth etc. Most of the time we used CHchain,one expection I remember was Tallon Zek beacause of his AE. Mheldur 66 Cleric >>>>>>>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >>>>>>>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Most of the time we used CHchain,one expection I remember was > Tallon Zek beacause of his AE. PoP progression is fairly old stuff now. I guess it depends a lot on where you are in the game. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner >>>>>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >>>>>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > heal or a complete heal,I was using Complete heal to make it > obvious how laughable the mana cost is on PR. That is the whole point though, you have to choose when a fast heal is needed vs when the long casting CHeal is needed. As a shaman I don't actually have that problem, I keep Spiritual Serenity on the tank, and toss in the odd Yoppa's Mending as needed (which is not often) when xping with a decent tank. Drop HoT on the tank before he engages, slow the mob, keep HoT on the tank, toss in the odd fast heal, rinse, repeat. Clerics mostly use CHeal in the same situation, at least once the mob is slowed, but that has been the case for a very long time, much like the spells I use have not changed significantly, except in power, through the expansions. I still have basically the same lineup, just different names, with added power (more healing, more damage, etc) to compensate for the higher level mobs with higher hp and damage output. It's been the same through many expansions now. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner >>>>>>is much more powerful,than a sucker 70 Cleric with no AAs and >>>>>>the crappy 66+ spells.(66 fast heal comes to my mind especially, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >That is the whole point though, you have to choose when a fast heal is >needed vs when the long casting CHeal is needed. Thats the whole point why SOE gave Clerics such crappy 66+ spells, trying to weaken the power of CH,and as this threads proofed players fell nicely for it. =) You know,I see other how other clerics do their job when playing my Ranger,and most of them need a med break at one point or another, because they use fast heals (or even sillier healing my Ranger at 70% health). Mheldur 66 Cleric > >That is the whole point though, you have to choose when a fast heal is > >needed vs when the long casting CHeal is needed. > > Thats the whole point why SOE gave Clerics such crappy 66+ spells, > trying to weaken the power of CH,and as this threads proofed > players fell nicely for it. =) If they actually were crappy, it would strengthen the relative and perceived power of CH. You don't say "Lance Armstrong's competitors are crappy this year. Thus, we're predicting Lance Armstrong will suffer a humiliating defeat." Look, current event analogies. =) > You know,I see other how other clerics do their job when playing > my Ranger,and most of them need a med break at one point or another, > because they use fast heals (or even sillier healing my Ranger at 70% > health). My pocket cleric keeps CH loaded always, pious remedy, both because of the speed and because of the casting distance, and pious elixir. I don't use pious light for exactly the reason you said, it's just too much mana for his poor mana pool, but pious remedy is indispensable for those "damn, forgot I was the healer" moments (yes, I have those even when 2-boxing...). >Yeah, and when the tank dies 9 seconds into your CHeal, how do you feel >about that? There is plenty of place for fast casting heals in the game. What's worse is when he dies 9.9 seconds in :-) > Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) > 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns* > 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line? The same is true for most classes, you just get better spells in the same lines that you already have spells. As a shaman, I get better heals (instant and over time), better buffs, better DoTs, better nukes, better debuffs. Nothing terribly exciting, except in that they allow me to hit harder zones than I could without them, particularly when soloing. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner >> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) >> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >debuffs. Nothing terribly exciting, except in that they allow me to hit >harder zones than I could without them, particularly when soloing. What I say - boooring - worst expansion ever,some lines are even worse than their predecessors(Pacify-Harmony line,and only 1 stun working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the max level was 65). Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older players,but I guess SOE wants newbies go to WoW,not EQ. =) Mheldur 66 Cleric > >> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) > >> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the > max level was 65). Sound of Divinity and Shock of Wonder both work up to level 70. > Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are > hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older > players,but I guess SOE wants newbies go to WoW,not EQ. =) It is far, far, *far* easier for newbies to "catch up" with the older players now than at any point in Everquest's history after the first week of release. >Sound of Divinity and Shock of Wonder both work up to level 70. If you can call "Your target resisted your Shock of Wonder spell! Again!" working :-) <wrat@panix.com> wrote: > >Sound of Divinity and Shock of Wonder both work up to level 70. > > If you can call "Your target resisted your Shock of Wonder > spell! Again!" working :-) As someone who has wiped his 3-box team more often due to stuns getting resisted and mobs gating than due to all other things combined, I sympathize. Still, it "works". =) >> >> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) >> >> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >Sound of Divinity and Shock of Wonder both work up to level 70. My bad,point taken. >> Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are >> hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >players now than at any point in Everquest's history after the first week of >release. >What I say - boooring - worst expansion ever,some lines are even >worse than their predecessors(Pacify-Harmony line,and only 1 stun >working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the >max level was 65). I jumped for joy when I got the OOW HOT. Makes my game. But I can count the number of times I've had to use placate (70 pacify) since I got it. Once, :-) in Trial of Subversion. It worked... Stuns? I sometimes use a stun when soloing. I've tried to use them on casters in group situations and (just like my nukes) they get resisted so much I stopped and went back to sit-stand-heal. If SOE really wanted to spice up the cleric's lives they'd add a couple of OOW class zones with high level undead mobs. Now *that* would be fun. >Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are >hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older >players How so? I mean, how so any more than any other expansion? IMHO OOW made it ***much*** easier for new players to catch up, at least if they're willing to buy gear in the bazaar or have a few higher level friends. All that OOW junk, Veil of Vendor Trash, Gloves of Rejected Loot, you know, all that stuff with 100mana/100HP you can buy for 500 plat... >>>Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) >>>1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Mheldur 66 Cleric I can understand a difference of opinion about Omens - I think it's the best expansion Sony have ever brought out - but worst expansion ever? You mean to say that DoN *and* GoD are better than it? That I can't accept, it's just insane. And yeah as others have said, in terms of newbies 'catching up' ie new players catching the pack (not single-grouper oldbies catching raiders, which is another and much larger thread entirely), Omens is one of the shining stars of Everquest - tons of droppable loot and incredibly good (the best for single-groupers) quested gear. cheers, James >>>>Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66) >>>>1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns* [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > You mean to say that DoN *and* GoD are better than it? That I can't >accept, it's just insane. Yes,GoD better,because no senseless leveling needed.When I said worst it was refered to the raising of the level cap,for me it made the game less enjoyable,for one as mentioned I need to do the xp tread mill again instead of becoming stronger with making AAs,other point being that there are now a lot of under equipped with no AAs to speak of level 70s,who are remarkable weaker than my 66 and 67 chars, but hey they can enter RSS. :p > And yeah as others have said, in terms of newbies 'catching up' ie new >players catching the pack (not single-grouper oldbies catching raiders, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >cheers, >James [snipped list of cleric spells that got upgrades] Please list the spells for any class that were original and useful. ALL of them were numbers upgrades, or numbers upgrades on unused spell lines. Some classes had the added insult that the numbers upgrades weren't even upgrades in effectiveness, just a required speedbump upgrade so the spell would affect the mobs we're now fighting. Enchanters are the ones I know best; previous mez, stun, charm, and pacify spells just stopped working (because higher-level mobs became the normal targets) until new spells were acquired that do the exact same thing on new mobs. Heck, for pacify and charm we had to get new spells just to have a nerfed version! And two of our most effective lines got dropped entirely until the June 29 patch. Imagine if your upgrades were "most of your heal spells don't work on anyone over L65, the new versions work the same, but on higher-level targets. Except the new CH, which is the last L70 spell for you and now has a 15 second cast time and can't crit. Complaining that your upgrades were uninteresting makes me feel even worse that my upgrades were either zero-grades or nerfs. But then I get over it, and realize that I'm still having fun, despite SoE hating me :) When that stops, I'll stop playing. OTGH, some new AAs WERE interesting and useful, and the July 29 patch added two (boring numbers upgrades, but for good spells) important enchanter spells. -- Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net <http://www.dagon.net/> >Imagine if your upgrades were "most of your heal spells don't work on anyone >over L65, the new versions work the same, but on higher-level targets. Hey, don't laugh. A problem I have now is that I keep Pious Elixir loaded, but it won't hold on people lower than 61. >[snipped list of cleric spells that got upgrades] > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >OTGH, some new AAs WERE interesting and useful, and the July 29 patch added >two (boring numbers upgrades, but for good spells) important enchanter spells. Well,I talked about Clerics cause one of my 2 mains is one,I could have written the same rant about Rangers. Mheldur 66 Cleric Uland 67 Ranger |
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