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What is MA exactly?

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Faeandar - 22 Jul 2005 19:53 GMT
I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?

As a new beserker I've been dubbed MA but really all I do is target
the puller and type /assist.  The go to town on it's head.  Is that
all there is?

Thanks.

~F
Tracey - 22 Jul 2005 20:13 GMT
> I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
> exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?

Well, as I understand it (and haven't been yelled at for working it
this way), the MA is the secondary tank and/or the person designated
to tank a second mob that is either unmezzable or no other way to
control it. I may have jobs mixed up, but the way it works (for me,
at least) is that you set up a second hotkey with the MA's name so
there's no fumbling around or extra time taken up by having to manually
type /assist <x>. Which is good if their name is something like
Aeidksoeisns. :P

Tracey
Faeandar - 22 Jul 2005 20:17 GMT
>> I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
>> exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Tracey

I thought that job was called the Off Tank.  It's like learning a
second language sometimes...

~F
Tracey - 22 Jul 2005 20:19 GMT
>>>I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
>>>exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> I thought that job was called the Off Tank.  It's like learning a
> second language sometimes...

I could be wrong. :) Honestly? I treat it just as I did when I was
in the military. Who cares if I know what rank that guy is as long
as I know whether to salute him or not. :)

Tracey
Graeme Faelban - 22 Jul 2005 20:29 GMT
>>>>I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
>>>>exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>>control it. I may have jobs mixed up, but the way it works (for me, at
>>>least) is that you set up a second hotkey with the MA's name so
there's
>>>no fumbling around or extra time taken up by having to manually type
>>>/assist <x>. Which is good if their name is something like
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> in the military. Who cares if I know what rank that guy is as long
> as I know whether to salute him or not. :)

You are wrong.  The MA is the person that everyone should be assisting in
order to aquire the target.  Often this person is also the MT, but not
always.  The people who pick up adds that are not being mezzed are indeed
generally called off tanks, or OTs.  Mind you, I could be wrong too... :b

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner

42 - 22 Jul 2005 22:53 GMT
> You are wrong.  The MA is the person that everyone should be assisting in
> order to aquire the target.  Often this person is also the MT, but not
> always.

I'd say the MA = MT often enough that they are virtually
interchangeable.

>  The people who pick up adds that are not being mezzed are indeed
> generally called off tanks, or OTs.  Mind you, I could be wrong too... :b

In my experience pretty much the only time the MA is not the MT in 1
group content is when the MT is also responsible for picking up the
unmezzable adds because there are no suitable OT candidates.

Then you designate a dps class as MA. Then on pulls the MT goes around
gaining taunt on *everything* unmezzable that comes in while the MA
picks a target and sticks with it. Everyone else can rely on the MA
having the right target, while the MT might be rotating targets to keep
taunt.

e.g. a group with a paladin, wizard, enchanter, rogue, druid might
designate the rogue MA, and the pali MT, if -and- only if there were
unmezzables that were adding.


Faeandar - 22 Jul 2005 23:44 GMT
>> You are wrong.  The MA is the person that everyone should be assisting in
>> order to aquire the target.  Often this person is also the MT, but not
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>designate the rogue MA, and the pali MT, if -and- only if there were
>unmezzables that were adding.

This is an excellent explanation.  Thanks!

~F
Moopy - 26 Jul 2005 13:06 GMT
>>e.g. a group with a paladin, wizard, enchanter, rogue, druid might
>>designate the rogue MA, and the pali MT, if -and- only if there were
>>unmezzables that were adding.
>
> This is an excellent explanation.  Thanks!

with really conscientious / paranoid tanks this can happen
with mezzable mobs too - I know many tanks from the POP era,
before the warrior aggro buff, who liked to 'pre taunt' mezzed
mobs to ensure they had aggro before they broke mez.

Once they had aggro locked on the current target they'd leave
the DPS dps'ing and switch to the mezzed mobs to taunt aggro
off.

Shrug ;)
Graeme Faelban - 25 Jul 2005 14:13 GMT
>> You are wrong.  The MA is the person that everyone should be
>> assisting in order to aquire the target.  Often this person is also
>> the MT, but not always.
>
> I'd say the MA = MT often enough that they are virtually
> interchangeable.

Agreed, but I was not limiting my answer to single group content.

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner

42 - 25 Jul 2005 21:04 GMT
> >> You are wrong.  The MA is the person that everyone should be
> >> assisting in order to aquire the target.  Often this person is also
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Agreed, but I was not limiting my answer to single group content.

Neither was I, but finding examples where you might distinguish them in
single group content is harder.
Moopy - 26 Jul 2005 13:04 GMT
> I could be wrong. :) Honestly? I treat it just as I did when I was
> in the military. Who cares if I know what rank that guy is as long
> as I know whether to salute him or not. :)

That job would be called 'SA' or 'ST' for 'secondary assist/tank'

The M = main
the A = assist (/assist them for target)
the T = tank   (keep them focused for heals)

So you might have, in a group of monk, warrior, paladin, cleric, enchanter, rng

Monk MA
Warrior MT
Paladin ST

etc

;)
Graeme Faelban - 22 Jul 2005 20:26 GMT
> I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
> exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
>
> As a new beserker I've been dubbed MA but really all I do is target
> the puller and type /assist.  The go to town on it's head.  Is that
> all there is?

The MA, who often is the MT, is the person that everyone should assist to
get their target.  There are times when you need someone who chooses the
target for the raid, rather than just blindly assisting the MT.

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner

ghorus - 22 Jul 2005 20:28 GMT
You got it pretty much.

The MA or Main Assist is the person that everybody else in the group
aside from the MA himself and the puller target to assist, such that
everybody focuses on the same target.

Many groups, especially at the lower end don't have a separate MA, the
puller in effect takes both jobs.

As things get more difficult, it sometimes makes sense to have a puller
independent of the person that will decide which mob to beat on first.
Generally that person is the MT (Main Tank) but doesn't have to be.
Often it will be the leader of the group or a member experienced in the
area, that can quickly spot mobs in a pull that must be killed first
(like healers or casters in general).

Signature

Kzundran

Faned - 22 Jul 2005 20:37 GMT
<mr_castalot@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
> exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
>
> As a new beserker I've been dubbed MA but really all I do is target
> the puller and type /assist.  The go to town on it's head.  Is that
> all there is?

MT tanks.  If there are additional mobs that need to be killed *while* a
main mob is being tanked, an MA will be the one who calls assists.  Doesn't
necessarily involve any tanking.  My guild often uses a wizard as MA on one
particular encounter for instance.

I'll give you a couple hints from a longtime raid leader and raid puller:

A) Do it faster.  Trust me.  Only applies to a tanking MA.  I'm not saying
call it instantly, I'm saying acquire aggro instantly and call it when
you're ready.  When you think you have this accomplished, move on to hint B.

B) Do it faster.  Trust me.

C) Be spatially aware.  Casters need line of sight to cast, so move out of
line of sight to stop a chain caster's nuking and get it to come on into
camp.  As well, you need line of sight to acquire aggro, so make sure you've
got room in front of camp or you're gonna be swimming through your own raid
force to get to a mob.

D) Be aware of game mechanics.  Kill the gater first.  When a gater has
friends around, he won't gate.  If he's alone, he's gonna try...

A good MA can do much to make sure a raid goes smoothly.  A bad MA can
guarantee failure.  Slackers don't make good MA's.
Tony Evans - 23 Jul 2005 01:26 GMT
In alt.games.everquest, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

>D) Be aware of game mechanics.  Kill the gater first.  When a gater has
>friends around, he won't gate.  If he's alone, he's gonna try...

Good point, but not always true.  Some mobs will quite happily gate away
from their friends.

Signature

Tony Evans      (ICQ : 170850)
Recommended Author : David Gemmell
Cold pizza:  the generic breakfast
Meet the wife : http://www.darkstorm.co.uk/grete

Faned - 23 Jul 2005 17:24 GMT
<postmaster@[> wrote:
> In alt.games.everquest, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Good point, but not always true.  Some mobs will quite happily gate away
> from their friends.

It is a faction related issue.  Mobs have "hidden" factions (as in you won't
necessarily get a faction hit killing them) that decide whether they will
help each other or not.  If a mob is being "helped" then it won't gate.

A good place to see this in action is PG named, where they generally stand
in a room with two friends.  Many named are, ironically, easier to pull than
the placeholders because they aren't the same "faction" as the other mobs in
their room so will come single, whereas to kill the placeholder will require
splitting.

Mobs choosing to try to run away is dependent on the same criteria, so in
addition to killing the gaters first, you also want to make sure the last
mob to die in a multi-pull is snared even if the others don't try to run.
Rez - 22 Jul 2005 20:40 GMT
> I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
> exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> ~F

MA is in most cases the MT as he is out frount of the rest of the group
to get first strike on mob. He is also closer to the puller to target
the mob before rest of force be it group or raid, in most cases it is
raid
Faeandar - 22 Jul 2005 20:59 GMT
>I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
>exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>~F

Ok, I think I got it.  When I said new I meant new, dinged 16 last
night.  So no raids in his near future.

I've been a monk/necro/cleric until now (65-67 now) and never been a
raider.  Oh I've assisted on the random necro epic 2.0 or HoH flagging
but that's about it (cleric epic too).
In my life as such I've never really known about an MA nor apparently
needed to.  I've been re-invited to many a group and several raids
without such knowledge so I must be doing something right...

Thanks for the edumucation.

~F
Beal - 22 Jul 2005 22:51 GMT
> I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
> exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
>
> As a new beserker I've been dubbed MA but really all I do is target
> the puller and type /assist.

It just gets confusing because in most groups the MA is the MT, so
people get lazy and use them interchangeably.  Another confusing fact
is that people tend to treat the puller, not the MA, as the main
assist.  This can lead to some problems.  (Puller doesn't always have
the MA's target as his own target.)
Don Woods - 23 Jul 2005 01:18 GMT
> I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
> exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?

Others in this thread have answered the question, but I'll just add
an example from a low-level encounter (~level 20).

In the new Qeynos mission ("Sleeping on the Job"), the final boss
fight has you up against a beefed-up Fippy Darkpaw.  As his hits
drop, he summons pairs of adds.  One way to handle this fight is
for the MT to stay on Fippy while all the other DPS gets directed
at one add, then the other.  Then everyone goes back to Fippy
until the next adds arrive.

To do this, you want a separate MA.  When the adds show up, the MA
targets one, gets aggro, and calls for the group to assist.  Rinse
and repeat.

    -- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
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Lief - 24 Jul 2005 22:45 GMT
> I understand MT, that's the dude that just take the beating.  But what
> exactly is MA?  Main Assist I know, but how does it work?
>
> As a new beserker I've been dubbed MA but really all I do is target
> the puller and type /assist.  The go to town on it's head.  Is that
> all there is?

MA = Main Assist.  The main guy for you to assist to get the correct target.
MT = Main Tank.  The guy who the mob will (or should), always have aggro on,
and will be focused on for heals.

They can overlap but are not the same roles.
Signature

Lief

 
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