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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / April 2005eq2 buy your way to eq godhood
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457§ion=News&month=current John Smedley Discusses Station Exchange Hello Everyone, We have a big announcement coming out in the press in the next day, and I wanted to make sure you heard it from me directly rather than reading an article about it. Starting in late June, SOE will begin offering a new service called Station Exchange. This secure service will allow EverQuest II players on specific servers to buy and sell the right to use items, coin and characters. To be clear, all we are doing is facilitating these transactions. We are NOT in the business of selling virtual goods ourselves. I'm sure this is going to come as a shock to many of you, since for the past six years, we have held the line in not allowing these sorts of things to occur. I'd like to explain the primary drivers for this change from our perspective: First: It's obvious that a large percentage of our players either don't mind this activity or actively participate in it. We've done a fair amount of homework on this subject, and we believe this is a $200 million dollar market worldwide, and there are a huge number of our players taking part in the buying and selling of virtual goods. We have conducted polls, and the vast majority of players either doesn't care about it or would like to participate in it. We believe that by allowing this to happen on select servers, we can have a solution for both the many players who want to participate in this and for those who don't. Second: Dealing with fraudulent transactions of one type or another takes up roughly 40% of our customer service people's time. We have players calling us up or requesting in-game service for activities related to these sorts of transactions constantly, even though they are specifically disallowed by our EULA. You may ask why the percentage is that high when it's not allowed in the first place? The answer is simple. Many times, people in these situations aren't up front with us about what actually happened. "My sword disappeared from my inventory" comes to mind, when what actually happened is the player has sold the item to someone else. Our CS people have to take the time to investigate this claim because if something legitimately happened, we of course want to take care of the player's needs. We believe that by taking this course, we will free up a great number of resources to deal with other things for our players. Third: We see this as a potentially interesting model for future games. If we came up with a game specifically designed around these sorts of transactions, it might be pretty cool. Online gaming is always evolving, and we're going to see how a sanctioned exchange service shakes out in EQII. From our perspective, it's always wise to keep pushing the envelope. With the big reasons we're doing this laid out, I'd like to now tell you about the process: On Wednesday, you'll see some press about Station Exchange. After about a week, we will conduct an in-game poll that's going to ask whether you: 1) Want to play on an "Exchange enabled" server 2) Do not want to play on an "Exchange enabled" server 3) Don't really care Based on the results of this poll, we will light up a certain amount of new servers that are specifically "Exchange enabled." If the percentage of players who want this service is high enough, we might consider converting some existing servers to "Exchange enabled." Players who want to play on those servers will have the opportunity to transfer over to the "Exchange enabled" servers for free on a one-time-only basis (but you can't ever move that character off these servers). We will, of course, let people who don't want to stay on an "Exchange enabled" server off with a free transfer. I want to be clear here: We will be lighting up a few new servers that are specifically "Exchange enabled," and the number of existing servers we convert to "Exchange enabled" will be based on how many people actually want to be on "Exchange enabled" servers. In addition to the issues listed above, you may ask, "What about farming?" The simple answer to this is that we're going to continue to heavily enforce the rules of EQ II, and those rules don't permit players to monopolize spawns or in any way harm the play experience of another player. We will continue to enforce these rules, but we also think that by providing a legitimate way for players to buy and sell the use of virtual goods, there will be fewer problems on the non-Exchange servers. I realize this is a lot to think about, and I expect a pretty good debate to start on this subject. We welcome all your feedback, as it will help determine the future of this service. All I ask is that you consider the fact that we're really addressing this problem in the best possible way for all sides of this issue. John Smedley President, Sony Online Entertainment If I don't have to be on a server where this occurs, it might be ok. However, what's to stop someone transferring to such a server, buying godhood, then transferring back? Also he says there is a "200 million dollar market worldwide". This sounds incredible, and may be total fluff. Ok, let's assume $200 million dollars. No police. No laws to stop you. I'm not a criminal, I don't know how to exploit this, I don't want to exploit this. However, many people are not as nice as I am and for $200 million, they would eat their own children. So far as I know, there's been one killing over money in a MMOG I know of. IF the market is really $200 million (a big if, but I'm using plain text, so please add a few font sizes mentally) AND law enforcement doesn't get involved THEN people are going to die. People get whacked over a few grand, and it would be so easy to launder money etc this way. I've heard stories of mexican eq sweatshops, with people grinding out the same mobs over and over for plat... I wonder if this will become reality if it isn't already? And would they like to join a union? > If I don't have to be on a server where this occurs, it might be ok. > However, what's to stop someone transferring to such a server, buying > godhood, then transferring back? >From the original post: "Players who want to play on those servers will have the opportunity to transfer over to the "Exchange enabled" servers for free on a one-time-only basis (but you can't ever move that character off these servers)." That would imply that once you're on an exchange enabled server then you're stuck there. steve.kaye > > If I don't have to be on a server where this occurs, it might be ok. > > However, what's to stop someone transferring to such a server, buying [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > steve.kaye That's good to hear. However, they also said they would never, ever do this. Now they are doing this, it will be hard for them to resist temptation. >> > If I don't have to be on a server where this occurs, it might be >> > ok. However, what's to stop someone transferring to such a server, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > this. Now they are doing this, it will be hard for them to resist > temptation. Unless they do this in EQ1 as well, it is not going to be an issue for me.  SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner news:Xns963E54EC3F4C5richardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4... >>> > If I don't have to be on a server where this occurs, it might be >>> > ok. However, what's to stop someone transferring to such a server, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Unless they do this in EQ1 as well, it is not going to be an issue for > me. IMO, it would be hard for them to implement this (at least in this way) in EQ for a number of reasons. 1. The ecomonies of the servers are in an uproar with the server merges right now. I know on CT, our economy was FUBAR to begin with. From what I hear from the Brell folks, theirs was, too. When the two FUBARed economies were combined ... well, it's playing hell with the prices. For example, I wanted a pair of SCHWs for my 38SK, and they were available from 1.2K to 5.5K (I'd seen them as high as 7K before EQ2 was released). Brokering items for cash would be very difficult in the current environment, because who would know what a fair price would be? 2. They're combining servers as it is. Why would they open a new one? 3. IGE, for better or worse, is dug in like a tick in EQ. Not so much in EQ2. That's just my opinion, of course. Crash >> Unless they do this in EQ1 as well, it is not going to be an issue for >> me. > > IMO, it would be hard for them to implement this (at least in this way) in > EQ for a number of reasons. Well of *course* they're going to do this in EQ. All who denied that this would ever happen here used the same arguments then, and still it happened. Now that they smell the money, they're not going to leave any of it on the table for IGE. I'm sure they've been frothing at the mouth for years over IGE's ability to monetize something that they've owned and controlled while the purists in their organization were holding them back from exploiting their own property. The purists lost, the bean counters won. It's a new day at SOE. SignatureRedbeard, the Relic Keeper <Veritas> Dwarven Mystic of 50 Winters & Alchemist Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle Current resident of Qeynos Harbor http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=105183104 Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf <Resolution, Retired> Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie >>> Unless they do this in EQ1 as well, it is not going to be an issue for >>> me. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > from exploiting their own property. The purists lost, the bean counters > won. It's a new day at SOE. I never said that they couldn't or wouldn't, just that it would be harder. The wicket is much stickier, since they wouldn't be implementing new servers to do it and the economies there are so volatile. btw .... being a purist about several non-game related things, I find that purists end up losing 95%+ of the battles whenever money is involved in the equation. Crash >>>> Unless they do this in EQ1 as well, it is not going to be an issue >>>> for me. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > that purists end up losing 95%+ of the battles whenever money is > involved in the equation. I fully expect that this will come to EQ as well, I am just hoping it will be a fair while yet. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Retired Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner, Retired > I fully expect that this will come to EQ as well, I am just hoping it > will be a fair while yet. I give it six months, a year at the outside. (And I'll bet it's implemented across all of EQ2 within half that time.) I admit to having mixed feelings about this, though mostly I don't like it. If all they were doing was providing a secure channel for transactions that are taking place anyway, then it wouldn't really have much effect. But obviously, by providing that channel, they make it more likely that people will avail themselves of it, both because it's more secure, and because it's been legitimized. And having more plat sellers and Ebayed characters (using the term generically, since of course Ebay won't be involved) can't be good for the game. But my real fear is that SOE *will* succumb to the temptation to generate content for the purposes of making extra cash off these sales. I.e., up the drop rate on items or plat so that there'll be more cross-player sales that they can take a cut of. And that's not even counting the temptation to generate plat and items and sell them directly to players, so that SOE gets all the money. It's a slippery slope, and everything I've seen to date suggests that SOE is happily sledding down it without regard to the cliff at the bottom. I did have one thought today, though, that makes me wonder if they realise all the implications of the Station Exchange. (Well, let's be serious. Obviously they haven't.) I don't know how much they plan to charge for "listing" things for sale, but I assume it can't be too big a cut or people will still try to bypass them. But they currently charge $50 for moving a character (well, up to two) from one account to a different account on the same server. I don't know how much revenue they make from such transfers, but they won't be getting any once Station Exchange comes to EQLive, because it'll almost certainly be cheaper to sell yourself the character for $0.01. -- Don. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm -- -- Sukrasisx, Monk 52 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail, -- Terrwini, Druid 51 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you -- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr remove the "hyphen n s" -- Teviron, Knight 13 on E. Marr > But my real fear is that SOE *will* succumb to the temptation to > generate content for the purposes of making extra cash off these > sales. I.e., up the drop rate on items or plat so that there'll > be more cross-player sales that they can take a cut of. I don't think that would work. If you increase the drop rate then the drops will automatically be worth less real world money. Same for plat - if there's more plat then people will have less incentive to buy more so its real world value will decrease. > And that's > not even counting the temptation to generate plat and items and > sell them directly to players, so that SOE gets all the money. That would work. :-) > It's a slippery slope, and everything I've seen to date suggests > that SOE is happily sledding down it without regard to the cliff > at the bottom. > I did have one thought today, though, that makes me wonder if they > realise all the implications of the Station Exchange. (Well, let's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > be getting any once Station Exchange comes to EQLive, because it'll > almost certainly be cheaper to sell yourself the character for $0.01. I imagine that they would not remove that charge to move the character between accounts - it still costs them money to move a character from one account to another. They would just get a bit more money from the commision from the sale (assuming that they intend to charge commision). Also, you could argue that this change will increase the number of character transfers so generating more income for SOE. steve.kaye > I never said that they couldn't or wouldn't, just that it would be harder. > The wicket is much stickier, since they wouldn't be implementing new > servers to do it and the economies there are so volatile. Yea, I didn't mean that to sound like I was snapping at you, I'm still trying to soak in the announcement which came sooner than even I expected it, and I've been expecting it for some time. > btw .... being a purist about several non-game related things, I find that > purists end up losing 95%+ of the battles whenever money is involved in > the equation. Yep. Examples roll right off the tongue (but I won't list them here because each comparison will generate its own new flamefest). SignatureRedbeard, the Relic Keeper <Veritas> Dwarven Mystic of 50 Winters & Alchemist Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle Current resident of Qeynos Harbor http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=105183104 Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf <Resolution, Retired> Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie >> I never said that they couldn't or wouldn't, just that it would be >> harder. The wicket is much stickier, since they wouldn't be implementing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > trying to soak in the announcement which came sooner than even I expected > it, and I've been expecting it for some time. No offense taken at all. Being snappy isn't your style, so I just assumed you'd misunderstood me. >> btw .... being a purist about several non-game related things, I find >> that purists end up losing 95%+ of the battles whenever money is involved >> in the equation. > > Yep. Examples roll right off the tongue (but I won't list them here > because each comparison will generate its own new flamefest). The reality regarrding how weak of a position the purist is in really hit home to me when the lights went up at Wrigley. Crash >>>If I don't have to be on a server where this occurs, it might be ok. >>>However, what's to stop someone transferring to such a server, buying [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > That's good to hear. However, they also said they would never, ever do this. > Now they are doing this, it will be hard for them to resist temptation. Do you have a reference for that? Signature- Barry as Aslanar on Oggok >First: It's obvious that a large percentage of our players either don't mind >this activity or actively participate in it. We've done a fair amount of >homework on this subject, and we believe this is a $200 million dollar >market worldwide, and there are a huge number of our players taking part in >the buying and selling of virtual goods. We have conducted polls, and the >vast majority of players either doesn't care about it or would like to >participate in it. We believe that by allowing this to happen on select >servers, we can have a solution for both the many players who want to >participate in this and for those who don't. In other words people are getting rich selling stuff, we can't stop it so we want a cut too. > In other words people are getting rich selling stuff, we can't stop > it so we want a cut too. 1. Its happening now whether they like it or not 2. Its kind of like legalizing an unsavory activity - by making it legal they hope to get rid of the bad elements involved by making it more in the open (I do know of people that have paid money for goods but have received nothing in return). 3. Sony is in business to make money, but this certaintly is a turn around from their past position. Maybe there could be some other ways to limit the eq sweat shops (i.e. you can't get more than 5 BoC a month). > >First: It's obvious that a large percentage of our players either > don't mind [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > In other words people are getting rich selling stuff, we can't stop > it so we want a cut too. there's been a huge splash over sites like http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/04/20/1438221.shtml?tid=209&tid=98n and of course http://mobhunter.com/000058.html, http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,67280,00.html This is big stuff. I don't think they've thought this through. I can see way too much potential for crime here. I mean, when i search on everquest i get flooded with exploit sites and sites advertising hacking software. Not to mention litigation: you nerfed my item which was worth $1000 and now i can't give it away! > http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457§ion=News&month=current Great stuff - perfect, even, if they stick to their word. I can now play on an exchange disabled server and all the powergamer wannabes with no actual commitment can f.ck off. Super ;) M >> http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457§ion=News >> &month=current > > Great stuff - perfect, even, if they stick to their word. I can now > play on an exchange disabled server and all the powergamer wannabes > with no actual commitment can f.ck off. Super ;) Why do you think they would move? They will have the same opportunities for purchases they have always had, only now SoE has pretty much given up on efforts to discourage it. It's only gonna get worse for you. SignatureRumble "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin >>> http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457§ion=News >>> &month=current [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > purchases they have always had, only now SoE has pretty much given up on > efforts to discourage it. I have faith in SOE greed. Watch them crackdown on competitors eating their market. ;-) >>>> http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457§ion=News >>>> &month=current [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ;-) I hadnt thought about it but thats somthing to consider. Once they can show on its face that these transactions have a monetary value SOE could potentially slap IGE with a freaking HUGE lawsuit based on theft. Hmm I Somehow doubt thats whats happening but one could hope. >>>> http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457§ion=Ne >>>> ws &month=current [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > ;-) They've already expressed that they are only targetting those who monopolize areas and directly and adversely affect the gameplay experience of others. There are many pharmers still at work on a daily basis who operate without fear with good reason. SignatureRumble "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin >>>> http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457§ion=News >>>> &month=current [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I have faith in SOE greed. Watch them crackdown on competitors >eating their market. >;-) Yes, somehow I think you've hit the nail on the head, there ;) Palindrome >>> http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457§ion=News >>> &month=current [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >It's only gonna get worse for you. It's not clear that this will "clean up" the non-buy-for-cash servers, but I hate to the think of what the cash servers will look like. Who is going to want to be there, except the people who have paid out $$$ for stuff? What was interesting in the announcement was that in true corporate speak, they gave their reasons in reverse order. Let's see: "the players are ok with it (yeah right), it will make it easier on customer service (maybe, maybe not), and, oh yeah, by the way, we happen to see a huge market here". |
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