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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / February 2005EQ2: SoE swinging the nerf bat again
I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has taken away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire tradeskill community. No longer will I see a need to chat and make friends with fellow crafters, the community is now going to be ruined as everyone will craft for themselves. Fighters have been made more like tanks than tanks/dps characters which is good, but sadly the scouts have been screwed over at the same time. Great news for magic users though 300% increase in effecitivness. I'm simply amazed at SoE with this patch, it really does make me wonder if they listen at all to the community. > I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has taken > away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire tradeskill [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm simply amazed at SoE with this patch, it really does make me wonder if > they listen at all to the community. Have you tried it on test? I haven't, but wouldn't be suprised if crafters can make their own components, but at a cost (resource) that is more intensive than buying it from an alchemist. It wouldn't suprise me if they make it so that alchy produced components are better quality. Wait and see what happens, it might not be as bad as you think. > I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has taken > away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire tradeskill [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm simply amazed at SoE with this patch, it really does make me wonder if > they listen at all to the community. Oh, I don't know. Let me see if this sounds familiar? We want more solo content - don't make us group - let us do it alone. So SoE makes tradeskill more solo friendly and .. THEY DON"T LISTEN TO US!!! Sheesh... > I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has > taken away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire > tradeskill community. Regarding this change, I am certain it does come from listening to the community. No longer will I be force to pay exorbitant prices for the privilege of advancing my Sagecraft. Alchemists can still make the melee equivalent of what I can make as a Sage, they just do not get the added benefit of being the only ones able to make inks and washes and such. As a sage, I expect to lose the sole ability to make patterns, and, quite frankly, it will not bother me in the least, as I will no longer be the one who is slowing down my guildies from advancing their tailoring and armormaking. > No longer will I see a need to chat and make friends with fellow > crafters, the community is now going to be ruined as everyone will > craft for themselves. What you see as ruin, I see as making things fairer. I already have two tradeskills covered, and was contemplating making an alchemist in addition just so that I could actually get the items I needed without having to pay so much for them that I could never make a profit selling the resulting items, or having to wait on a poor overburdened friend to make them for me.  SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 24 Dwarven Mystic, 22 Sage Aviv, 12 Gnome Brawler, 19 Craftsman On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:16:52 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrotC:DRIVE_E >I'm simply amazed at SoE with this patch, it really does make me wonder if >they listen at all to the community. Yup. They listened to all the crafters whining they didn't want to go begging for oils/resins/etc from alchemists. Of course, listening to the community usually a crappy way to run a game. It results in a Massively Multiplayer Monty Haul Campaign. It's worth noting that for all the whining people have done about how SOE 'doesn't care waht people want', EQ is still around, while a lot of other games started with the basis of 'giving gamers what they ask for' have flopped utterly. (Horizons, anyone? Remember when that was going to 'kill' Ultima Online, way back when it was first announced in the dim recesses of time?) *----------------------------------------------------* Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard "I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit http://www.mrlizard.com >I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has taken >away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire tradeskill [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I'm simply amazed at SoE with this patch, it really does make me wonder if >they listen at all to the community. *rolls his eyes* How did I know some idiot was gonna whine about this? Sorry, the level of interdependency is absolutely stupid. This change is a -GOOD- thing. And your alchemist is FAR from useless. Maybe you ought to see what some of those other potions can do... SignatureDark Tyger Sympathy for the retailer: http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html "Door's to your left" -Gord (I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell) Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/ >>I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has >>taken away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > is a -GOOD- thing. And your alchemist is FAR from useless. Maybe you > ought to see what some of those other potions can do... Not to mention essences... SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 24 Dwarven Mystic, 22 Sage Aviv, 12 Gnome Brawler, 19 Craftsman >>>I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has >>>taken away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Not to mention essences... Interdependency was a great thing for the crafting community, it brought people together and made them chat and trade etc. Without it you just have people churning out items on their own. I've lost count of the number of people I have met and made deals with through the system. There were problems with interdependency without a doubt but to totally go against everything you have been saying since the game was released is bad form in my opnion. SoE made a big deal of the crafting system and now they have totally changed it. Why didnt they simply fix the sage class instead of hitting the explode button? Alchemists are now a pretty useless class. 1. Potions/Posions : Do u know how these sell? They dont sell for sh.t, nobody wants them because they are so poor. I know lots of alchemists and none of them can sell this stuff. 2. Fighter Upgrades: Due to the insane number of Adept drops these not exactly popular. Will SoE fix this aspect of the game, I doubt it. Without decay you will end up with 100000's of the same player crafted items on the market (not as good as mob drops), which will lower the price so much they become worthless. SoE did have a great system in place that was getting better, instead of sticking to it and just tweaking it, they swung the nerf bat and TOTALLY went against everything they had previously said. <snip> > Interdependency was a great thing for the crafting community, it brought > people together and made them chat and trade etc. Without it you just have > people churning out items on their own. I've lost count of the number of > people I have met and made deals with through the system. <snip> I think this is the point the current system MAKES people come together, out of necessity. Most people I know who play EQ/EQ2 do so as an escape from the outside world of rules and boundaries and having to spend time with people you don't like just so you can eat. I personally don't mind, I like people, but those that are more solo orientated should be allowed to follow their needs, to be able to explore on their own sometimes without the complications of a group, to be able to be selfish from time to time. Yes EQ/EQ2 are social games but we shouldn't loose sight of the fact that it doesn't need to be in every aspect. Before I even started playing EQ my partner was playing and I used to spend many a long night watching him being (mostly) alone in the world of norath, he travelled from Qenos to Freeport and then on to Faydark by himself (died down a big pit on the way and explored and I think became a better player because of it. I think what EQ/EQ2 needs is a system where people are rewarded for grouping but solo players aren't penalised, where the people who need to group most of the time can do so, the people that don't really want to interact can do so and those that want to do a bit of both are able to. Yes the players of EQ and EQ2 are in an online world full of people but why can't they be alone when they want to and be with people when they want to (as so many of us do in RL) Just my two peneth Ceri :o) >I think what EQ/EQ2 needs is a system where people are rewarded for grouping >but solo players aren't penalised That's a self-contradiction. Rewarding grouping always has been, and will always be, seen by soloers as penalizing soloers. I've even heard questions like: "Why should I be penalized for only being able to play the game one hour per day?" People will scream and scream to persuade SoE to make the game easier and more solo-friendly until it's no longer worth spending time on, it seems. -- Henrik Dissing Vork - Dwarf Guardian and Weaponsmith on Highkeep Member of Knights of Knowledge (e-mail: hendis AT post DOT tele DOT dk) > I think this is the point the current system MAKES people come together, out > of necessity. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > their own sometimes without the complications of a group, to be able to be > selfish from time to time. True, those who would rather solo should be allowed to follow their needs, but then what about those of us who'd rather group? I mean, we've all played in eq (or maybe even eq2) with that one guy who has solo'd up into his mid 20's or early 30's and now has no idea how to function in a group. Do we want someone like that in all our groups? Of course, many people have friends and guildies that they group with frequently and that work well with them, but there will always be new people that you group with and if they have solo'd their way up to where they are they will have no idea how to function as part of the group. I guess what I'm saying is that you can't have a game that pleases everyone. If a game is advertised as group oriented then it should be group oriented. There's enough options out there that everyone should be able to find what is most fun for them. If EQ doesn't float your boat, try something else. >Interdependency was a great thing for the crafting community, it brought >people together and made them chat and trade etc -FORCING- people to deal with others in the extremes they went to is a -BAD- thing. I don't deny that some interdepency is good, but it is ridiculous right now. It's the number one complaint about crafting. Maybe you like being forced to beg for ingredients, but most sane people don't. SignatureDark Tyger Sympathy for the retailer: http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html "Door's to your left" -Gord (I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell) Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/ >>Interdependency was a great thing for the crafting community, it brought >>people together and made them chat and trade etc [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Maybe you like being forced to beg for ingredients, but most sane > people don't. Like I said the system wasnt perfect but it was getting better. SoE needed to tweak a few classes and it was set. Instead they totally changed the game. So from what I can gather pretty much everyone can make anything. So it is now possible for the likes of Sages to level through making carbon spikes etc. What's the point of the class system if you can simply make anything you want. Are SoE now going to get rid of interdependency for adventurers? After all i'm a Ranger why shouldnt I be allow to cast spells like a mage? It's not fair that I can't heal myself, why can't I do everything with one character? For what it's worth it seems SoE have now clarrified the situation and it's not as bad as the inital post suggested. However I would still like to now see them fix the alchemist class and actually make their potions/poisons useful. Nobody is going to pay 1g for a power increase that doesn't work and only lasts 3minutes. > So from what I can gather pretty much everyone can make anything. So it is > now possible for the likes of Sages to level through making carbon spikes > etc. What's the point of the class system if you can simply make anything > you want. You can't. A sage isn't suddenly going to be able to make vanguard armor, for example. Only the base _components_ needed for their own recipies. The interdependency that was there was extreme. > Are SoE now going to get rid of interdependency for adventurers? After all > i'm a Ranger why shouldnt I be allow to cast spells like a mage? It's not > fair that I can't heal myself, why can't I do everything with one > character? See above. They aren't making the crafting classes able to create anything they wish, so trying to compare that to a Ranger casting spells like a mage has no validity. >Like I said the system wasnt perfect but it was getting better. The current system is more than "not perfect". It's horrendous. You may like being forced to pay price-gouging a.sholes for every single f.cking thing you want to craft, but, believe me, you're in the minority. SignatureDark Tyger Sympathy for the retailer: http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html "Door's to your left" -Gord (I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell) Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/ >>Interdependency was a great thing for the crafting community, it brought >>people together and made them chat and trade etc [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Maybe you like being forced to beg for ingredients, but most sane > people don't. Yep, if they had just made it so that in order to create the best items you needed to use things crafted by others, rather than forcing several different tradeskill classes to have no choice at all but to buy/trade/create an alt. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 24 Dwarven Mystic, 22 Sage Aviv, 12 Gnome Brawler, 19 Craftsman >-FORCING- people to deal with others in the extremes they went to is a >-BAD- thing. I don't deny that some interdepency is good, but it is >ridiculous right now. It's the number one complaint about crafting. >Maybe you like being forced to beg for ingredients, but most sane >people don't. The interdependency is only a problem when it becomes prohibitive, i.e., when you cannot get done what you need to do, when you want to do it, and at a price that leaves a reasonable margin of profit for yourself. Rather than throwing away a brilliant idea, I think they should have done an effort to make it easier for buyers and sellers to interact without having to be online and do nothing else. I constantly find myself in situations where nobody's currently offering the interims I need, but I'm sure that there must be dozens of crafters who would like to make a buck selling from their stock to me; they're just not selling at the moment. And when I advertise for the service of a woodworker, I usually only get one reply, if any at all, so it's seller's market in the extreme. You should able to place both orders and goods on the market and let bidders fight it out while you go hunting mobs or turn off your computer to get some sleep. Market economy only works if there is a functioníng market in the first place. -- Henrik Dissing Vork - Dwarf Guardian and Weaponsmith on Highkeep Member of Knights of Knowledge (e-mail: hendis AT post DOT tele DOT dk) On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:43:02 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrotC:DRIVE_E >Interdependency was a great thing for the crafting community, it brought >people together and made them chat and trade etc. By 'chat and trade', you mean: \gu I need some boxes! \gu Well, I can make some, but I need resins and oils. \gu OK, I'll get my alchemist mule on. \gu Thx. *----------------------------------------------------* Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard "I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit http://www.mrlizard.com > On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:43:02 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net> > wrotC:DRIVE_E [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > \gu OK, I'll get my alchemist mule on. > \gu Thx. No I mean people chatting and making deals via the chat and trade groups. I have found more friends via the crafting channels than I have found adventuring. Sya what you like I believe this was simply down to the interdependency where you get to know people and what class they are etc. I have crafted items for people many times for free, simply because they have helped me out at some point and havent ripped me off when it came time to trade. > On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:43:02 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net> > wrotC:DRIVE_E [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > \gu OK, I'll get my alchemist mule on. > \gu Thx. Lol, yep, except you left out... /gu Yeah, as soon as I finish making up the resins for X, the washes for Y, and the Oils for Z, I can make up some for you too... SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 24 Dwarven Mystic, 22 Sage Aviv, 12 Gnome Brawler, 21 Provisioner <snip> > Interdependency was a great thing for the crafting community, it brought > people together and made them chat and trade etc. Without it you just have > people churning out items on their own. I've lost count of the number of > people I have met and made deals with through the system. It was just annoying for me. I'd rather meet people adventuring or in real life. Besides, what's wrong with chatting about strategies, or bartering potions in return for nicer robes? <snip> > Alchemists are now a pretty useless class. > > 1. Potions/Posions : Do u know how these sell? They dont sell for sh.t, > nobody wants them because they are so poor. I know lots of alchemists and > none of them can sell this stuff. Maybe they don't sell because the in game descriptions are inadequate. If i see a potion of comfy chair on the market, i don't know if it'll invoke the spanish inquisition or put my character to sleep. I just checked the market. There isn't even a category for potions. I've never bought one. Most games will have some description like "this last 30 minutes, adds 30% to strength", but not here. petition with other alchemists as a group and it'll change. > 2. Fighter Upgrades: Due to the insane number of Adept drops these not > exactly popular. Will SoE fix this aspect of the game, I doubt it.<snip>Do Adept 3 drop? I have a lot of adept 1 skills that cost 40-100 silver. Adept 3's are around 500 silver. The raw materials cost far more. A better solution might make the rare materials more accessible so that coral / silver clusters might appear more often to people with high skill ranks in mining for example. Making them cheaper to assemble would make the sale easier, and people will always crave adept 3 if they have adept 1.I have a 21 sage and so far hven't found any coral or silver at all. > <snip> >> Interdependency was a great thing for the crafting community, it [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > they have adept 1.I have a 21 sage and so far hven't found any coral > or silver at all. So far, I have found 4 rares total. 1 copper cluster, 1 silver cluster, 1 severed bone, and 1 palladium. I am not quite to tier 4 yet, and I harvest the crap out of Thundering Steppes all the time I am there. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 24 Dwarven Mystic, 22 Sage Aviv, 12 Gnome Brawler, 21 Craftsman > So far, I have found 4 rares total. 1 copper cluster, 1 silver cluster, > 1 severed bone, and 1 palladium. I am not quite to tier 4 yet, and I > harvest the crap out of Thundering Steppes all the time I am there. Some people just have better luck than others. I harvested two severed firs the first time I went to TS. Since I spent all my time in Nek, I thought firs were just another common, so I destroyed them. Since then, I found one more. This weekend I found a ruthenium (sp?) that sold for 65g (the rest on the broker were 85g+, so I guess I sold it too low), and have a feysteel that I don't know how much to charge for. Last week, I was in a group with a guy in EF that had like six rubies on him, four high-quality pelts, a couple opals, etc. His list was insane. I asked if he looted it all and he said a couple of the rubies and one of the opals, other than that they were all harvested. A couple of my friends were completing Manastone recently. One of them harvested for days straight and didn't get her high-quality pelt. She ended up having to pay like 2p for one, just out of frustration. She did give me like 20 stacks of T4 meat though :P Another guildie found his on the first den he hit in EL. > > Alchemists are now a pretty useless class. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > strength", but not here. petition with other alchemists as a group and it'll > change. The reason they don't sell is because people don't know about them. Until the patch where the interdependancy changes go in, there is no way to search for poisons as a category on the vendor. If you can't search for them, it makes it hard to know what is even a poison without examining each item... Indulgence of Hate isn't the name I'd pick for a poison. I'm willing to bet that as soon as scouts are able to search the brokers for poisons, they will sell like hotcakes. As long as they are resonably priced, of course. >>>>I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has >>>>taken away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Why didnt they simply fix the sage class instead of hitting the > explode button? That would have worked for me as well, but, it was definitely very broken the way it was set up. > Alchemists are now a pretty useless class. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > items on the market (not as good as mob drops), which will lower the > price so much they become worthless. I had very little trouble selling the essences back when I was planning on going the alchemy route. Once I hit level 19, I decided to go with Sage instead. SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 24 Dwarven Mystic, 22 Sage Aviv, 12 Gnome Brawler, 19 Craftsman >>I've got three characters who are all crafters. In one sweep SoE has >>taken away one of them (Alchemist), whilst also runing the entire [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > is a -GOOD- thing. And your alchemist is FAR from useless. Maybe you > ought to see what some of those other potions can do... Yep damn them to hell, now alchemists are only as useful as say, Sages for instance... SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea> Graeme, 24 Dwarven Mystic, 22 Sage Aviv, 12 Gnome Brawler, 19 Craftsman Talk of Nerfing...my two pennyworth. I know I'm not a crafter, however all I can say from all the EQ2 patches I've experienced is that I have noticed a difference. A positive one. A few days before the "big patch" a few weeks back, which introduced more solo content, higher armour points, tabbed chat windows, I went up to Fippy's Hill, decided to test what my level 15 guy was capable of against a group of three blue conned Gnolls. They took me out in seconds, I hadn't even made a dent on one of them. The day of the patch, I returned to them, and tried again. The mystic was a minor struggle with his healing, but I defeated him, and his three warrior friends went down in seconds. It was almost the same blue conned mob except they had one more warrior. Some would say this makes it too easy, but I felt it was just enough to give me a bit of encouragement. I knew I could still get my arse handed to me by guys further into the zone, the game hadn't been handed to me on a plate, I was just left with a slight sense of achievement, and a hint that the game was slowly gaining some of the aspects I enjoyed from EverQuest 1 (though I can't really put into words how this is, it just did). SignatureMichael Greenhalgh --- www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society --- MMORPGs EverQuest: Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir EverQuest 2: Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm City of Heroes: Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue --- |
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