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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / May 2004IS EQ Dying
Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are players moving on to other MMORPGs? > Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are > players moving on to other MMORPGs? Well I dunno about moving but if they don't sort out RN which has been down at least 8 times in the last 4ish days, then they might loose everybody on RN. you actually can't really play on Rodcet right now because you might go LD at anytime, I know that's true of all servers but it's a very real risk ATM that if you start an adventure you might not get a chance finish it. Ceri :o) > > Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are > > players moving on to other MMORPGs? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ATM that if you start an adventure you might not get a chance finish it. > Ceri :o) Only 8 times? You should have tried playing on Innoruuk a few weeks ago. People don't quit, they just play alts on other servers for a while. >> Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are >> players moving on to other MMORPGs? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >ATM that if you start an adventure you might not get a chance finish it. >Ceri :o) Hey, we got a new login screen, what more do you want? ;) Palindrome > >> Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are > >> players moving on to other MMORPGs? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Ceri :o) > Hey, we got a new login screen, what more do you want? ;) Well maybe some notification that I needed the new patcher to view it would have been good! > Palindrome > > Hey, we got a new login screen, what more do you want? ;) > > Well maybe some notification that I needed the new patcher to view it would > have been good! It was probably related to the fact that your files were read-only at one point (or so you said in your other thread), and the patcher may've gotten confused and thought it had downloaded the new patcher when really it failed because the file was read-only. -- Don. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sukrasisx, Monk 32 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail, -- Terrwini, Druid 18 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you -- http://www.iCynic.com/~don remove the "hyphen n s" >> >> Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? >> >> Are players moving on to other MMORPGs? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Well maybe some notification that I needed the new patcher to view it > would have been good! For most folks, me included, it downloaded the new patcher automatically.  SignatureOn Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons I agree that with the client crashes that EQ is having they are at real risk. However EQ is EQ and when you like it you really like it. So many folks go out and put themselves in debt to try and upgrade when it is EQ itself that is the problem. I also play on Innoruuk and have spent almost 2 full days trying to figure out what is wrong. I am very frustrated with EQ and Sony. This may be the straw for me. Qez Innoruuk > Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are > players moving on to other MMORPGs? > I agree that with the client crashes that EQ is having they are at real > risk. However EQ is EQ and when you like it you really like it. So many [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > out what is wrong. I am very frustrated with EQ and Sony. This may be the > straw for me. I'm at the end of my rope too with the random crashes and what seems like almost daily patches on the Drinal server. Half of my guild still runs into EQ just dumping them onto the desktop if they happen to wander passed the main PoK bank during an MGB or something. And I love the fact that rather than fix the problem of randomly getting stucking in some sort of plant life (tree, shrubbery, blade of grass), they just implemented the /rewind command. I wish they'd dump the mandated use of DX9. EQ worked fine beforehand without it. And then we didn't have to deal with baddies not staying properly within game geometry or falling through the world when zoning. It's always fun to get something down to 20% then have it run away into a wall and vanish. Or go from PoK to PoT, only to find yourself falling from the sky in PoT and taking 300 points of falling damage. :) Another thing that got my necromancer killed a lot was normally visible baddies wouldn't be visible, or disappear for a little bit. This happened to me in BW and GD. I'd pull something out of the giants' fort in BW, and it'd vanish until he was at the bottom of the ramp and pounding on me. Or in GD with the wurms in the middle of the zone: I'd walk around wondering where all the wurms were. Then all the sudden I see spam of two or three hitting me. Change views a few times before dying, and they still weren't visible. Necro rezzes are expensive! Oh well. A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the name "Remember Kona!" <DBKimHill@erols.com>: >Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Yes. > Is the game dying? No. > Are >players moving on to other MMORPGs? Yes. Signature"Bad enough when the dead come walking," he said to Jon as they crossed the village, "now the Old Bear wants them talking as well? No good will come of *that*, I'll warrant. And who's to say the bones wouldn't lie? Why should death make a man truthful, or even clever? The dead are likely dull fellows, full of tedious complaints - 'the ground's too cold, my gravestone should be larger, why does *he* get more worms than I do....'" - Dolorous Edd Tollett, "Clash of Kings" (George R R Martin) > Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are > players moving on to other MMORPGs? This has been the topic of many discussions in this newsgroup over the last few years. EQ seems less populated for a couple or reasons, in all probability. It is much bigger than it was when it started, and now there are instanced zones. People are simply more spread out than they used to be. This fact makes it harder to judge just how high or low the population of the servers are now. I remember when one could zone into LoIO and get a pretty good idea of how many people were on. Now it is rare to see more than 3 or 4 people in that zone. Still, I also think that EQ is actually losing numbers now, and that will only get worse when WoW/EQII comes out. Is the game dying? That is the big question, of course. I personally think not. EQ is a juggernaut in the universe of MMORPGs. There are older games that never had the numbers that EQ does, but are still around in a diminished, but steady state. EQ might itself diminish. Servers might be collapsed. The churning out of expansion packs might slow then stop. The introduction of changes to game mechanics through patches might trickle down to nothing. But as long as there is a measurable profit to be had, then they won't pull the plug on the last server. And I think that it will take years before that happens. I don't have a crystal ball of course, but I have a strong feeling that if you care to be around EQ for its 10th or 15t anniversaries, then you will be able to do so. But you might not have alot of company when you do. Are players moving to other MMORPGs? Yes. Will they stay with them or come back to EQ? Probably a little of both. Will more new players join than the number of old players who leave and don't come back? This is the big question, the question that SOE really needs to be interested if it wants EQ to survive in its current state. And the signs seem to suggest to me that they don't expect that to happen. Fixing the basic game code and stability so that users don't get frustrated and move on would be a priority to them, I would think, if they really thought that EQ could/should be preserved in its glory. Instead, it looks as though they are more interested in getting a much money from the player base in the form of expansion and to a lesser extent character transfers/name changes before the game implodes into a few die hard players who would never leave until the last server goes down and never comes back. SignatureAnnie To join the alt.games.everquest chat channel type /join serverwide.age:age If you want to stayed joined, then after that type /autojoin serverwide.age:age AGE FAQ: http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.faq.htm http://tinyurl.com/yvud6 Mirrored at: http://www.derfy.net/agefaq.html AGE - CoH Playerlist http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.in.coh.htm Everquest in City of Heroes Forums http://pub84.ezboard.com/beverquestplayersincityofheroes Currently playing: Teapray-- 54 High Elf Cleric on Firiona Vie City of Heroes Tealeaf, on all servers. On Protector, Tealeaf is a Magic Defender learned in Empathy and Radiation. On Virtue, Tealeaf is a Technology Scrapper learned in Spines and Regeneration. -- If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me. >>Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are >>players moving on to other MMORPGs? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It is much bigger than it was when it started, and now there are instanced > zones. "/who all criteria" returns markedly fewer results than it used to, even over the last couple months. /who all class 60-65 used to result in 'this list has been cut off...' pretty much 24x7... now I routinely get 16 matches or 10 matches (off peak of course... but still). Sure its possible more and more people are using the anon option, but I doubt it. People are simply more spread out than they used to be. This fact > makes it harder to judge just how high or low the population of the servers > are now. I remember when one could zone into LoIO and get a pretty good [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > down to nothing. But as long as there is a measurable profit to be had, > then they won't pull the plug on the last server. 'Measurable profit' is not the criteria. It must meet 'profit expectations' and 'relative profit' criteria particularly in a fragmented market like mmorpgs. If they think collapsing EQ and giving everyone 6 months free in EQ2 will be more profitable, even if they lose half the playerbase then that is what they will do. > And I think that it will > take years before that happens. I don't have a crystal ball of course, but > I have a strong feeling that if you care to be around EQ for its 10th or > 15t anniversaries, then you will be able to do so. But you might not have > alot of company when you do. I am seriously skeptical that EQ has 5 more years. EQ is a game of community. Unlike other mmorpgs, if eq falls below a critical mass it will be literally unplayable. Grouping is required in EQ... so there must be an adequate pool to form groups from. Past a certain gear level raiding is required. Again there must be an adequate and considerably larger pool to form groups from. Past a certain point in raiding...pick-up raids are inadequate... Sure they can prolong it by merging servers, but a community is not the same thing as raw people. And the 2nd point... once the patches, and expansions stop -- the playerbase is going to get bored and leave. Sure there will be a few diehards who won't leave... but if they pull the plug and give them an EQ2 carrot SOE has a good shot of retaining them... or enough of them. > >>Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are > >>players moving on to other MMORPGs? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > 16 matches or 10 matches (off peak of course... but still). Sure its > possible more and more people are using the anon option, but I doubt it. /agree. I've noticed this as well, and my playing time used to be a combination of peak and off peak. The population is definitely dwindling. > People are simply more spread out than they used to be. This fact > > makes it harder to judge just how high or low the population of the servers [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > everyone 6 months free in EQ2 will be more profitable, even if they lose > half the playerbase then that is what they will do. /agree there, too. I think folks should take a good hard look at what's happening to the Mac folks to see how it's going to end. When the decision is made that a certain aspect of the community is expendable, they're removed without much fanfare. Another example is the number of times over the years that happy subscribers were forcibly removed enhancing system requirements. I'm not saying the game should still be played using it's original UI, but I am saying that when the time came to upgrade th epowers that be just decided that a certain percentage of their satisfied customers were now acceptable collateral damage. > > And I think that it will > > take years before that happens. I don't have a crystal ball of course, but [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > larger pool to form groups from. Past a certain point in > raiding...pick-up raids are inadequate... This is exactly the reason why I canceled my main account's subscription this weekend. I have a stable of characters that I enjoyed playing, and have gotten them all (at least all of the ones I was really interested in advancing past midgame) to the point where there was nothing to do but raid ... and I despise raiding. Saturday night I came to the realization that I hadn't logged for two weeks and hadn't really taken notice of the fact ... so I patched, logged in, and clicked the 'Cancel' button. > Sure they can prolong it by merging servers, but a community is not the > same thing as raw people. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the plug and give them an EQ2 carrot SOE has a good shot of retaining > them... or enough of them. The following is not gospel, it is hearsay. Please take it as such. I have a friend who is in the gaming business (not as programmer .. the business end of the business), and statements he's made in passing have been on the mark before (a few examples, he called the end of Earth & Beyond almost a year before it was announced, and he called the raise in EQ level from 60 to 65 about a year in advance as well). He rather nonchalantly stated one day that the plan as he understood it was that SOE was going to stop patches and expansions 12 months after EQ2 launch whenever that may be. At that point they were going to begin sunsetting servers starting with those who had the lowest average populations, offering those who were disenfranchised EQ2 accounts at discounted rates. One year after that SOE would turn the lights out on EQ. My friend is a nice guy, but quite frankly he's not smart enough to have come up with that scenario on his own ... he had to have read it in a trade rag or heard it at a conference somewhere. FWIW .. again, take that with a grain of salt. Crash >would turn the lights out on EQ. It's just plain wrong to turn off an entire virtual world. I know all about profits but if *I* were king as long as it was paying its own bills it'd stayed powered up. > >would turn the lights out on EQ. > > It's just plain wrong to turn off an entire virtual world. I know > all about profits but if *I* were king as long as it was paying its own bills > it'd stayed powered up. There is precedence here: http://tinyurl.com/2z22b If EA can do it, so can SOE. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Crash : The following is not gospel, it is hearsay. Please take it as such. : from 60 to 65 about a year in advance as well). He rather nonchalantly : stated one day that the plan as he understood it was that SOE was going to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : disenfranchised EQ2 accounts at discounted rates. One year after that SOE : would turn the lights out on EQ. If and when SOE does this to me, they will have very simply lost a customer. I have no desire to play EQ2 after having seen how massivly SOE f.cked up EQ1 in many many ways. I have zero reason to even vaguely suspect that SOE would do better the second time around. K I think the low end population is definitely dwindling making it virtually impossible for a non soloing class to find a group. This fact really changes the game's complexion and, from my perspective, really is a disencentive for a newcomer to stay with EQ. Remember the early days? The crowds int he EC tunnel, bartering goods? Remember the mobs in CrushBone? No more. The newbie and low level lands are now a desert, hardly a toon to be seen anywhere. Start a new toon and see for yourself. So with this as a base only a soloign class BL, NECRO, DRUID will be in a position to reach *adulthood* further flooding the high end market. And where will all the new clerics, monks, warriors, Berserkers come from? Simply stated. They won't. Get the hint here SOE? David N. > I think the low end population is definitely dwindling making it virtually > impossible for a non soloing class to find a group. This fact really changes [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Start a new toon and see for yourself. I did just that in a last ditch effort to renew my interest in the game. Changed servers, started a shammy. Got him to 14, and that was a struggle. No groups taking dervs in NRo. Only going on in Crushbone was guild PLing ... I managed to get into one whole TR group. Went to Unrest and was the only soul there. Paludal was nonstop guild PLing. And at that point I had learned my lesson. The game would never be what it once was to me. I am still intrigued by the phenomenon that is EQ, but I think I'd rather watch it evolve/devolve from the outside now. I no longer wish to be under the microscope myself. Crash > I did just that in a last ditch effort to renew my interest in the game. > Changed servers, started a shammy. Got him to 14, and that was a struggle. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > watch it evolve/devolve from the outside now. I no longer wish to be under > the microscope myself. The key, which SOE hasn't learned yet, is that in order to keep things fresh, you don't need to keep adding expansions, you need to change the world itself, you need to keep it dynamic. The old world is stale and boring and the new expansions tend to obsolete the old world. The result is that the world grows past the ability of the population to keep it feeling like a real, living, breathing place. And that's why we play EQ (or *played* EQ) instead of playing single-player games. And when the world grows so much, all of a sudden you find yourself needing Grand Central Station aka Plane of Knowledge, to make travel easier, but all that does it dumb down the game even more. The trip from A to B might not seem so dreary and boring if every once in a while something new happened. Leveling an alt wouldn't be so mundane if Crushbone wasn't exactly the same as it has been in the last X years. Etc. Just my meandering thoughts... ] The key, which SOE hasn't learned yet, is that in order to keep things ] fresh, you don't need to keep adding expansions, you need to change the ] world itself, you need to keep it dynamic. The old world is stale and ] boring and the new expansions tend to obsolete the old world. The result I don't see the need for expansions either. Unelss it makes them substantial money. Keeping players can be done by, as you mention, having a dynamic world. Changes in the quests, not new quests. Shop keepers moving to another town. Tunnels or teleports moving to new locations. JimP. Signaturedjim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard. My Web pages Updated: http://www.drivein-jim.net/ April 7, 2004: http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html May 7, 2004 > I don't see the need for expansions either. Unelss it makes them > substantial money. Keeping players can be done by, as you mention, > having a dynamic world. Changes in the quests, not new quests. Shop > keepers moving to another town. Tunnels or teleports moving to new > locations. Oh yeah, that'd go over well. It'd be like getting on a bus to go to work and finding that the bus routes have changed without anyone telling you. If I had a character who's figured out who in his town sells a useful ingredient, and then went back to buy some and found the NPC gone, I'd get fed up pretty quick. It's actually a very hard problem to solve, trying to keep old content fresh while not screwing over people who are depending on it staying the same. Frankly, I think part of the problem is that people get into ruts. Crushbone and Paludal feel old and repetitious, but everyone still goes there to level their alts. Why not go find some level- appropriate zones that you haven't done to death, and level up there instead? There's an amazing amount of content already in the game, and I'll bet that many players (myself included) have seen only a fraction of the stuff available at many levels. -- Don. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sukrasisx, Monk 32 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail, -- Terrwini, Druid 18 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you -- http://www.iCynic.com/~don remove the "hyphen n s" >It's actually a very hard problem to solve, trying to keep old >content fresh while not screwing over people who are depending on Hmmm, why not have an occasional new mob, a "visitor" of sorts, like the fabled ones but more reasonable. Temporary quests like the 5th anniversary stuff too. >>It's actually a very hard problem to solve, trying to keep old >>content fresh while not screwing over people who are depending on > > Hmmm, why not have an occasional new mob, a "visitor" of sorts, >like the fabled ones but more reasonable. Temporary quests like the >5th anniversary stuff too. Like having a bulletin board in each town that post quests for a week or month or even longer then you get a new crop of quests. __ Hrolff Wulfbonesson 35 FV Ubuar Elementmeister 34 FV Wulfbones > >>It's actually a very hard problem to solve, trying to keep old > >>content fresh while not screwing over people who are depending on [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Wulfbones Anyone know if the ingame boards are still functional? Must go and have a look next time I'm on. > >>It's actually a very hard problem to solve, trying to keep old > >>content fresh while not screwing over people who are depending on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Like having a bulletin board in each town that post quests for a week > or month or even longer then you get a new crop of quests. Except, if they're going to go to the work of creating a new quest, why would they want to make it available for only a week or month? Sure, it ceases to be fresh for people who've seen it already, but there are new players joining all the time, so why not leave it there for them? What's gained by removing it? So really this is the same as asking for more content in existing zones, and they've done some of that (e.g. newbie armor quests). On the other hand, a "visitor" could work. Suppose they added some quests that involve NPCs who occasionally get moved to different zones? (The zones would always be appropriate to level of the quest, or at least places where that level of player might travel.) So to do the quest you have to find out where the NPC is this week, and then find him before he moves again. Or, more to the point, people might start travelling through more zones in the hope of encountering one of these "wandering" NPCs. I also think it would help if there were more NPCs who initiated conversations. Sure, there are some NPC merchants who hawk their wares, or NPC trainers offering advice to NPC trainees. But I've yet to run into a mob wandering around a zone and have the mob accost me, not to attack, but to ask for (or insist on!) help. Having the world be a bit more active, in ways other than just attacking KOS targets, would be a good step. Not that I expect them to put that sort of effort into EQ at this point, though. I'd be happy if they'd just fix the existing bugs! -- Don. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sukrasisx, Monk 32 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail, -- Terrwini, Druid 18 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you -- http://www.iCynic.com/~don remove the "hyphen n s" Don Woods said: }I also think it would help if there were more NPCs who initiated }conversations. Sure, there are some NPC merchants who hawk their }wares, or NPC trainers offering advice to NPC trainees. But I've }yet to run into a mob wandering around a zone and have the mob }accost me, not to attack, but to ask for (or insist on!) help. }Having the world be a bit more active, in ways other than just }attacking KOS targets, would be a good step. They do have some beggars that randomly ask for a few coppers now and then. The one in butcherblock is the best, since if you give him a copper he won't go away. :) There are also some in Freeport. So the ability is there... More things like the Horasug deal in Thurgadin, perhaps, but with more interaction. (Follow Horasug around as he runs from pub to pub. It's an amusing way to kill 15 minutes if you don't mind the lack of a real punchline.) [65 Coercer] Zinphandel Chianti <Prism> (Gnome) Ayonae Ro > Except, if they're going to go to the work of creating a new quest, > why would they want to make it available for only a week or month? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > -- Don. LOL.. how true! But after they fixed all the bugs you have great ideas too... Too bad the bean counters don't play the game.. ah.... oh well. > Hmmm, why not have an occasional new mob, a "visitor" of sorts, > like the fabled ones but more reasonable. Temporary quests like the > 5th anniversary stuff too. Theres a great idea... Hey SOE... make this person an offer they can't refuse and get them aboard instead of all the bean counters you currently hire!!! ] D.J. <jolly73@boingcableone.net> writes: ] > I don't see the need for expansions either. Unelss it makes them ] > substantial money. Keeping players can be done by, as you mention, ] > having a dynamic world. Changes in the quests, not new quests. Shop ] > keepers moving to another town. Tunnels or teleports moving to new ] > locations. ] ] Oh yeah, that'd go over well. It'd be like getting on a bus to ] go to work and finding that the bus routes have changed without ] anyone telling you. Sorry, I sometimes don't communicate well. :-( If enough notice was given ? Say a message outside the shop mentioning the move ? Or the NPC mentioning something about moving across town ? The bus company where I live does it, sometimes with notice. Which is why I drive a car. ] It's actually a very hard problem to solve, trying to keep old ] content fresh while not screwing over people who are depending on ] it staying the same. Definately. ] Frankly, I think part of the problem is that people get into ruts. ] Crushbone and Paludal feel old and repetitious, but everyone still ] goes there to level their alts. Why not go find some level- ] appropriate zones that you haven't done to death, and level up I like the scenary to change from time to time. I played PnP for years, and came up with my own campaign because the other campaigns never changed anything. JimP. Signaturedjim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard. My Web pages Updated: http://www.drivein-jim.net/ April 7, 2004: http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html May 7, 2004 > ] Oh yeah, that'd go over well. It'd be like getting on a bus to > ] go to work and finding that the bus routes have changed without > ] anyone telling you. ... > The bus company where I live does it, sometimes with notice. Which > is why I drive a car. This is the big problem with mass transit. If people have cars, they will use them. If the government really would like to encourage mass transit, they need to make it useful enough that people will feel that they can get by without a car. To get that level of confidence, they need to not change routes. In particular, cancelling routes that have low ridership is wrong. They do that, and then end up with systems that only server people on a few routes, and since the people who ride on those routes also need to go to places not covered, they need cars. Signature--Tim Smith > This is the big problem with mass transit. If people have cars, they will > use them. If the government really would like to encourage mass transit, > they need to make it useful enough that people will feel that they can get > by without a car. Not exactly. The big problem with mass transit is that it takes longer to use it to get somewhere then a car does. Ever use a boat in everquest? Waiting on the boat had to be one of the most annoying things in Eq. Yet that boat left every 15 minutes far more reliably then mass transit ever does. The only places where mass transit works are areas with very dense populations and inadequate roads. Well maybe the new levitation trains in china that go 300 mph will add a new twist to the same equation. You want me to go wait in an unsafe, crowded , smelly place for 30 minutes to take a bus ride for 2 hrs to get someplace 30 minutes away? Sure wish everybody else would do it and get off my damn roads. >that boat left every 15 minutes far more reliably then mass transit ever >does. Sure am glad the bus doesn't let you fall through the floor when it crosses into another county... > >that boat left every 15 minutes far more reliably then mass transit ever > >does. > > Sure am glad the bus doesn't let you fall through the floor > when it crosses into another county... and I'd hate to catch a bus by walking out in front of it and letting it hit me :-) > and I'd hate to catch a bus by walking out in front of it and letting it hit > me :-) Bah. Millions of flies do precisely that every day. :) SignatureVenerable Hanrahan, Storm Warden (Human) - Fennin Ro Molgarin, 40-odd Monk (Human) - Fennin Ro "A Shoggoth is for life, not just for Christmas." > Frankly, I think part of the problem is that people get into ruts. > Crushbone and Paludal feel old and repetitious, but everyone still [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the game, and I'll bet that many players (myself included) have > seen only a fraction of the stuff available at many levels. Your question has already been answered, too much content is abandoned. Not a problem for solo classes, perhaps, but still lonely. And obviously a problem for non-solo classes. > > Frankly, I think part of the problem is that people get into ruts. > > Crushbone and Paludal feel old and repetitious, but everyone still [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Not a problem for solo classes, perhaps, but still lonely. And obviously > a problem for non-solo classes. But that's exactly what the much-maligned "fast travel" systems (PoK, wayfarer camps, etc.) are good for! It used to be that people would go to some level-appropriate place that took a while to reach (e.g., Splitpaw), get bound nearby, and then stay there for several levels. This worked because there were always enough other people there to group with. As content expanded, people had more places they could go, so you couldn't be sure of finding a group in some places. But with the new transport systems, that shouldn't be a problem. Find your group wherever people gather (e.g. PoK) and then go wherever you feel like hunting that day. But no, most people just go to one of a fairly short list of places at any given level. Granted, some places are harder to reach than they might be (Splitpaw, again, since the Nexus spires to NK are a bit slow compared to other forms of travel), but it doesn't take THAT long to get most places now, and travelling gives you time to talk to your groupmates (what a concept!). I do do a lot of soloing, but once a week I try to link up with a friend who's a couple levels above me, and each week we've gone somewhere new. Overthere, Dawnshroud, Frontier Mts, and last night it was Great Divide. Two people is a lot less lonely than one, and we often find 1-2 other folks LFG. But even with two we can chew through blue mobs like butter and handle the occasional yellow or low red when we want more excitement. :) -- Don. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sukrasisx, Monk 33 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail, -- Terrwini, Druid 18 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you -- http://www.iCynic.com/~don remove the "hyphen n s" > Frankly, I think part of the problem is that people get into ruts. > Crushbone and Paludal feel old and repetitious, but everyone still [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the game, and I'll bet that many players (myself included) have > seen only a fraction of the stuff available at many levels. There are a couple of things that I've noticed about some of our newer guild members lately. One, I don't think can be changed. The other, I'm not sure how to effectively deal with. The first is something that, quite frankly, drives me *crazy*. It's the 'I haven't been able to get a group for three days but I don't want to go to/want to do X because the XP sucks.' Does anyone else find this a weird way to be? The XP in Such-and-such is slow so I'll sit here in PoK for three days and get no XP whatsoever. I don't understand it and, no matter what I say, it makes no difference in their attitude. The second is the fact that we (the guild) have mid- to high- level characters who know *nothing* about zones other than PC or how to get to the various LDoN campsites or POI/POJ/BOT. If you want to go to a zone that's more than a PoK book away, it never fails that you have to walk half the people through how to get there. I think I'm going to propose to the guild that we start taking 'road trips' and go to zones that require a little travel to get to. Tracey > The key, which SOE hasn't learned yet, is that in order to keep things > fresh, you don't need to keep adding expansions, you need to change the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > exactly the same as it has been in the last X years. Etc. Just my > meandering thoughts... Excellent point!!! Why not do just that SOE??? >> I think the low end population is definitely dwindling making it virtually >> impossible for a non soloing class to find a group. This fact really [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Crash CIHYS? > >> I think the low end population is definitely dwindling making it virtually > >> impossible for a non soloing class to find a group. This fact really [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > CIHYS? No, my stuff is mostly NoDrop and probably not uber enough for you. Crash > > Start a new toon and see for yourself. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Crash Great post! Sounds like a plan!!! >I think the low end population is definitely dwindling making it virtually >impossible for a non soloing class to find a group. This fact really changes >the game's complexion and, from my perspective, really is a disencentive for a >newcomer to stay with EQ. It's not just the low end population that's dwindling. At least among my aquaintences, the highest end raiders are taking a pretty serious hit also. ...and that might well be a bigger problem, long term. >Remember the early days? The crowds int he EC tunnel, bartering goods? Remember >the mobs in CrushBone? No more. The newbie and low level lands are now a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >will all the new clerics, monks, warriors, Berserkers come from? Simply stated. >They won't. You might be surprised. Even a newbie, if he doesn't mind farming trade skill components for a few hundred plat, should find it trivial to solo as a low level melee. Unless you just can't stand the boredom of soloing, there isn't any use for a low level melee to group. Even at the higher levels, it just isn't all that hard to solo a melee. Last week, I pulled a 46 warrior out of semi-retirement and solo'd hit up to almost 50th lvl to catch up with some friends. It took me about 4 hours per level through 49, although it will probably take closer to 6 hours to get that last level before 50. Rgds, Frank > I think the low end population is definitely dwindling making it virtually > impossible for a non soloing class to find a group. This fact really changes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the mobs in CrushBone? No more. The newbie and low level lands are now a > desert, hardly a toon to be seen anywhere. Yes indeed! Recently rez'd a 2 1/2 year old Necro who had been sitting at level 24 for about 2 years. The other day while passing through DL on my way to BW (necro is 54 now) I was one of TWO people in DL! Granted it was around 8am on a weekday but I can remember 2 years ago when there would have been at least 30 players in DL any morning of the week. That same evening again passed through and was one of 19 people there. Gone are the days of 90 to 100 players in DL on a weekday evening. > So with this as a base only a soloign class BL, NECRO, DRUID will be in a > position to reach *adulthood* further flooding the high end market. And where > will all the new clerics, monks, warriors, Berserkers come from? Simply stated. > They won't. > > Get the hint here SOE? Just conjecture go follow...... I think they have gotten the "hint"! Deliberatly reduce the number of players on EQ so as to get more EQ2 customers when it launches. As someone in an eairler post suggested "the bottom line" is profit and customers are expendable. Say for instance SOE charges $14.99/month for EQ2 vers $12.99/month for EQ. The number of subscribers to generate $1,000,000 in revinue drops from 76782 down to 66711! Thats over 10000 less subscribers to bring in one million. Less customers for same income means more profit! Makes sense... fewer servers, less customer support (one instead of two people) etc... Why else make EQ2 a totally seperate non-compatable game or at the least allow character/s to be ported over to the new game? Hard to imagine why someone like SOE couldn't come up with a way to do that espically if the main point of a new game is enhanced graphics! Instead sell a whole new set of disks and expansions to both a segment of current customer base and thoes yet untapped for instant mega cash flow at a reduced future cost to boot. From a marketing stand point that makes sense. We are after all precieved by Wall Street as a very "plastic, thorow-away" society concerned more with glitter than with substance, so a huge company like SOE will play to what its marketing division precives will generate the most rapid profits in a given span of time. Detroit, as one example, has been doing it for years with great success. Put different mirrors on a car, introduce a new paint color and maybe new hub caps, and of course, advertise it with a couple sexy young suductively clad woman and la la... a new modle year "everyone" has to have! Its just the world we live in. I think the success EQ had in its first couple of years spelled its doom. That sucess drew the attention of a huge corp. which gobbled it up for one reason and one reason only. Big business is big greed so it stands to reason EQ is in its final days just waiting for EQ2 to launch before it evaporates into our collective memories. I'll be very supprised if it lasts more than a year after the lauch of EQ2. So heres the delema then... does one rush out to be one of the first on EQ2 so as to get a "leg-up" on other players or do you wait untill EQ is finally taken away for good to bite the bullet? I think SOE knows this will be in the minds of most EQ players and there counting on good old human nature to take effect. Personally I "survived" before I knew what EQ was and I'll survive after its gone. I don't plan on subjecting myself to all the growing pains and frustrations of leveling new characters again. I introduced my wife to EQ so I'll introduce her to other games after EQ's gone but I'll try and resist EQ2 as long and hard as I can. As someone else said... SOE screwed up EQ so I don't want to be there for their screw-up of EQ2!!! Oh and don't forget EQ3 guys. If EQ2 succeeds you know EQ3 is just around the cornor!!! > /agree. I've noticed this as well, and my playing time used to be a > combination of peak and off peak. The population is definitely dwindling. I have to admit, I had not thought of using /who all criteria as a way to gauge any changes in the population. I will defer here to those that have and say there are fewer people playing. > I have a friend who is in the gaming business (not as programmer .. the > business end of the business), and statements he's made in passing have been [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > come up with that scenario on his own ... he had to have read it in a trade > rag or heard it at a conference somewhere. Interesting if true. I might even believe it if you throw in the phrase "if EQ2 is a commercial success" somewhere towards the top of that paragraph. I mean, if they learned nothing else from SWG, they much have learned that players are not guaranteed to flock to whatever MMORPG they release and stay with it for the long haul. SignatureAnnie To join the alt.games.everquest chat channel type /join serverwide.age:age If you want to stayed joined, then after that type /autojoin serverwide.age:age AGE FAQ: http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.faq.htm http://tinyurl.com/yvud6 Mirrored at: http://www.derfy.net/agefaq.html AGE - CoH Playerlist http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.in.coh.htm Everquest in City of Heroes Forums http://pub84.ezboard.com/beverquestplayersincityofheroes Currently playing: Teapray-- 54 High Elf Cleric on Firiona Vie City of Heroes Tealeaf, on all servers. On Protector, Tealeaf is a Magic Defender learned in Empathy and Radiation. On Virtue, Tealeaf is a Technology Scrapper learned in Spines and Regeneration. -- If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me. > > I have a friend who is in the gaming business (not as programmer .. the > > business end of the business), and statements he's made in passing have been [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > learned that players are not guaranteed to flock to whatever MMORPG they > release and stay with it for the long haul. Like I said in the part you snipped, it's really heresay. However, it seems logical to me that SOE would attempt to railroad their current playerbase into the newer product in an attempt to make it a commercial success, not wait to see if it's a commercial success before the railroading began. They've put a lot of money into EQ2. After the somewhat limited successes of PlanetSide and SWG, it may even be fair to say that EQ2 is make-or-break for upper management. Crash > Interesting if true. I might even believe it if you throw in the phrase > "if EQ2 is a commercial success" somewhere towards the top of that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Annie Lets only hope your right and EQ2 falls misserably on its face like SWG did!!! "Be all U can B... :-)" wrote: > > Interesting if true. I might even believe it if you throw in the > phrase [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Lets only hope your right and EQ2 falls misserably on its face like SWG > did!!! Um... why would I hope that? I hope that EQ2 is a great commercial success because it the word of mouth about it is that it is a fun game to play. And I hope it's a fun game to play because, well, I would like to have access to a great on-line game, and one that isn't becoming solely focused on the upper end game for power players. EQ2 does have a different development team, you know. There is a chance, maybe a small one but still a chance, that they will learn from the errors of EQL and do this game right. The president of SOE might not want to see the cash cow of EQL go udders up right now, but I would bet that he sees EQII as the wave of the future for SOE's involvement in the MMORPG arena. I have to admit, I am not a particularly sentimental person. I have played EQ for four years, and have had alot of fun doing so. However, I don't feel I "owe" SOE any loyalty at all to EQ Live. I've paid to play every month like everyone else did. I've bought every expansion that came out up to, but not including, OoW. Why should I hope that a new, possibly better for my style of play, game will fall miserably just because it might threaten EQLive? SignatureAnnie To join the alt.games.everquest chat channel type /join serverwide.age:age If you want to stayed joined, then after that type /autojoin serverwide.age:age AGE FAQ: http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.faq.htm http://tinyurl.com/yvud6 Mirrored at: http://www.derfy.net/agefaq.html AGE - CoH Playerlist http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.in.coh.htm Everquest in City of Heroes Forums http://pub84.ezboard.com/beverquestplayersincityofheroes Currently playing: Teapray-- 54 High Elf Cleric on Firiona Vie City of Heroes Tealeaf, on all servers. On Protector, Tealeaf is a Magic Defender learned in Empathy and Radiation. On Virtue, Tealeaf is a Technology Scrapper learned in Spines and Regeneration. -- If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me. > I am seriously skeptical that EQ has 5 more years. EQ is a game of > community. Unlike other mmorpgs, if eq falls below a critical mass it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > larger pool to form groups from. Past a certain point in > raiding...pick-up raids are inadequate... I do agree with you there but want to add a few things. I do believe that EQ was and still is a success because of one thing. And that is people meeting online and enjoying a fantasy world as a group. The moment leveling is the only concern everquest becomes a boring treadmill. And this is my major concern about LDoN. It encourages the short pickup groups where everybody just comes together for a trivial task for 90 minutes tops. Even though most of the missions are trivial due to the time limit talk among the group is more or less not existing. Just inc, add, mezz etc. You, I mean I, don't make friends in that environment. When I started I met a few people who were interested in travelling all over norrath. We had our group and just tried things just for the fun of it. Going deep into dungeons to see how far we would come and what we would see. There has been a sense of wonder when entering Kaesora experiencing great ruins below the earth for example. Sure we wiped alot but some nasty corpse runs aside this didn't meant much to us. A line from blade runner comes to mind 'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...'. This is what I loved in EQ. Sadly this adventurous feeling is gone by now. Add the fact that most truly awesome new places you can go at 65 are raiding targets. So you either raid full time or do sit with friends around a camp fire and tell stories. Doing mindless exp groups isn't my way of playing so I rarely ever group now. To make a long story short if EQ wouldn't so much encourage level and loot but instead focus on interesting locations and stories it would attract and hold far more players. Even if they have beaten the endgame. Hagen ] Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are ] players moving on to other MMORPGs? I've noticed that many of the web pages I've looked at the past week don't seem to have been updated since last year, or the year before. I'm still getting an account and will be playing in June. JimP. Signaturedjim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard. My Web pages Updated: http://www.drivein-jim.net/ April 7, 2004: http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html May 7, 2004 On Sun, 23 May 2004 08:23:25 -0400 in <40b097c4$0$3151$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, "Remember Kona!" <DBKimHill@erols.com> graced the world with this thought: >Seems that there are fewer folks playing EQ. Is the game dying? Are >players moving on to other MMORPGs? 1.2 |
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