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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / EverQuest / May 2004Question on Attack value items
Hi, I see some items I might get for my Pally have Attack values +2, +5, +10 How does this work. Does it mean that if you equip with an item that has +10 to attack you will hit for 10 more damage points with each blow that hits? > Hi, > > I see some items I might get for my Pally have Attack values +2, +5, +10 > > How does this work. Does it mean that if you equip with an item that has +10 > to attack you will hit for 10 more damage points with each blow that hits? AFAIK, attack values are all multiples of 5, since they are the "new report" for the "cryptic" old values of Vengeance, which was labelled I-X ....but anyway.... attack + 10, for example, means that the ATK rating (under HP, under AC,) will go up by 10 ... you won't notice the difference if you round up a good amount of +attack items, little by little, you'll notice you can connect with your opponent more often, and your hits will more often toward the higher end of your personal spectrum (if your max is 100, you won't hit for 105, you'll just hit for closer-to-100 more often) if you really want to try it out, get some ranger buffs and see...attack is like dex, but better =) fennin.faza "Chris Monster" <noloveforspam@hotmail.com> wrote in > if you really want to try it out, get some ranger buffs and see...attack is > like dex, but better =) Attack is nothing to do with dex for most classes. Str / weaponskills / atk items add to melee atk. Dex / bowskill / atk items add to archery atk. Higher dex will lead to criting more often. > attack + 10, for example, means that the ATK rating (under HP, under AC,) > will go up by 10 ... you won't notice the difference Actually, no. Displayed ATK works out as actual attack multiplied by about 1.3, as I recall. The 'composite' attack figure displayed differs from the actual numbers behind the scenes. In EQ beta there were originally seperate 'to hit' and 'to damage' numbers that were merged as too confusing. There are doubtless other considerations too, given the evolutions in gameplay that have taken place. > if you round up a good amount of +attack items, little by little, you'll > notice you can connect with your opponent more often, and your hits will > more often toward the higher end of your personal spectrum (if your max is > 100, you won't hit for 105, you'll just hit for closer-to-100 more often) Im dont believe it increases 'to hit'. It certainly increases average damage though, you're right about that. > if you really want to try it out, get some ranger buffs and see...attack is > like dex, but better =) Only in that they're both displayed numbers. They do totally different things. Dex is *almost* statistically negligible, and for melee combat it only affects your proc/crit rate, not your damage. Matt > I see some items I might get for my Pally have Attack values +2, +5, +10 > > How does this work. Does it mean that if you equip with an item that has +10 > to attack you will hit for 10 more damage points with each blow that hits? That would be "extra damage", not Attack. I assume Attack adds to your ATK skill, which affects how often you hit. (And maybe how often you do max damage vs modal damage?) -- Don. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sukrasisx, Monk 32 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail, -- Terrwini, Druid 18 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you -- http://www.iCynic.com/~don remove the "hyphen n s" > > I see some items I might get for my Pally have Attack values +2, > > +5, +10 How does this work. Does it mean that if you equip with an [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > your ATK skill, which affects how often you hit. (And maybe how > often you do max damage vs modal damage?) There's a very good analysis of ATK effect on dps by Romidar on Paladins of Norrath: http://tinyurl.com/36nbz[1] I believe the general consensus is that once you've reached maximum weapon skill, ATK bonuses doesn't affect how often you hit, but I could be very wrong on that, and I don't know what the effect is before you reach max skill. [1] http://p202.ezboard.com/fpaladinsofnorrathtomesofknowledge.showMessage? topicID=90.topic > > > I see some items I might get for my Pally have Attack values +2, > > > +5, +10 How does this work. Does it mean that if you equip with an [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://tinyurl.com/36nbz[1] This link does not work o( I have always understood that the magic number for attack is 1500 .. wondering if your link says that. regards @ndrew "@ndrew" <andrewratinternodedotondotnet> wrote in message news:40a498c8 > I have always understood that the magic number for attack is 1500 .. > wondering if your link says that. 1500? Nope. I self buff over that amount, and notice a considerable difference when I get FA on my dps. Rangers get quite high atk anyway. Max worn atk is 1620 I believe (thats skills and +atk items).  Signature-- Hunter Lief Caelestis Forest Stalker of Tunare Venril Sathir > "@ndrew" <andrewratinternodedotondotnet> wrote in message news:40a498c8 >> I have always understood that the magic number for attack is 1500 .. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Max worn atk is 1620 I believe (thats skills and +atk items). 1620 without buffs, yep. Noet that your 'ATK' stat consists of two values, one of which is increased by pure '+attack' and the other of which goes up by STR. It has been parsed that STR-atk does virtually nothing, but attack-atk significantly increases your average hit. Simplified version is your ATK is measured aganist the mobs AC to see how much damage you actually do. On low AC mobs super high ATK has a less pronounced effect than on high AC mobs. Thats how it worked last time I looked , anyway. I suppose it may have all changed again since then :) Matt >> "@ndrew" <andrewratinternodedotondotnet> wrote in message news:40a498c8 >>> I have always understood that the magic number for attack is 1500 .. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >two values, one of which is increased by pure '+attack' and the >other of which goes up by STR. >It has been parsed that STR-atk does virtually nothing, but attack-atk >significantly increases your average hit. Feel free to provide links. There are certainly times when STR-atk doesn't do much.. but the same could be said of attack-atk at that time. >Simplified version is your ATK is measured aganist the mobs AC >to see how much damage you actually do. On low AC mobs super high >ATK has a less pronounced effect than on high AC mobs. > >Thats how it worked last time I looked , anyway. I suppose it >may have all changed again since then :) To expand, my understanding of the situation is this. You have an attack rating.. the mob has an AC rating. If your attack rating is significantly below the mob AC rating.. you normally hit for the minimium. When you get in the range of the mob's AC with your attack.. you hit for your weapons modal value. When you get significantly over your mob's AC with your attack rating you start hitting for the max. The reverse is true when dealing with AC. If your AC rating is signifcantly below a mobs atk.. he hits you for the max. As your AC gets in the range of his atk... your AC mitigates a lot of the damage and he hits for his modal. And as your AC gets over top of his atk.. he hits more for the minimum. Once he hits for the minimum more AC won't give significant returns and most people confuse this for a soft AC cap. As a result.. in the Luclin era most people thought there was a soft-AC cap of around 1350AC.. and it was half true. They definately noticed more AC didn't make a difference.. but that was mainly because they had crossed a point where they met the mob with the highest attack, so at 1350AC you mitigated across the board. As expansions have been released.. the attack ratings of mobs have gone higher and higher.. so more AC in those expansions does in fact make a considerable difference. Really.. when it comes down to it you need as much attack as you can get via STR, worn atk, ranger atk buffs, shaman avatar or primal, etc. to try to get significantly above mob AC in order to max hit.. especially if playing newer expansions. That's why rogues.. rangers... and every other melee damage class just creams their pants for attack buffs on raid. Its also why mob attack debuffs are incredibly important. -MJ >>It has been parsed that STR-atk does virtually nothing, but attack-atk >>significantly increases your average hit. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>Thats how it worked last time I looked , anyway. I suppose it >>may have all changed again since then :) Boy, am I glad I included that caveat. I went to find the old parses, and what I found instead were some new ones, including commentry by the folks who contributed significantly to the old ones. The URL is here: http://66.102.11.104/search?q=cache:Ll9_mdMSXs0J:www.eqbeastlord.com/forums/view topic.php%3Fp%3D123802+damage+parse+strength+attack+value+ATK+everquest&hl=en&st art=1&ie=UTF-8 Its a pretty comprehensive set of parses on ATK data, and you're right - STR now does appear to work exactly the same way as ATK. it didn't used to though ;) Honest ;) My apologies for the misleading information ;) Matt >>>It has been parsed that STR-atk does virtually nothing, but attack-atk >>>significantly increases your average hit. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >commentry by the folks who contributed significantly to the old >ones. >The URL is here: >http://66.102.11.104/search?q=cache:Ll9_mdMSXs0J:www.eqbeastlord.com/forums/view topic.php%3Fp%3D123802+damage+parse+strength+attack+value+ATK+everquest&hl=en&st art=1&ie=UTF-8 Thanks for the nice huge long link.. now can i get a shorter one that i can hopefully get to work :>. -MJ >>>>It has been parsed that STR-atk does virtually nothing, but attack-atk >>>>significantly increases your average hit. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -MJ Worked fine for me. Maybe your newsreader is due for an upgrade. >>http://66.102.11.104/search?q=cache:Ll9_mdMSXs0J:www.eqbeastlord.com/forums/view topic.php%3Fp%3D123802+damage+parse+strength+attack+value+ATK+everquest&hl=en&st art=1&ie=UTF-8 > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Worked fine for me. Maybe your newsreader is due for an upgrade. Didn't work for me, either in in netscape, or when I cut and pasted into explorer. SignatureAnnie To join the alt.games.everquest chat channel type /join serverwide.age:age If you want to stayed joined, then after that type /autojoin serverwide.age:age AGE FAQ: http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.faq.htm http://tinyurl.com/yvud6 Mirrored at: http://www.derfy.net/agefaq.html AGE - CoH Playerlist http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.in.coh.htm Everquest in City of Heroes Forums http://pub84.ezboard.com/beverquestplayersincityofheroes Currently playing: Teapray-- 54 High Elf Cleric on Firiona Vie City of Heroes Tealeaf, on all servers. On Protector, Tealeaf is a Magic Defender learned in Empathy and Radiation. On Virtue, Tealeaf is a Technology Scrapper learned in Spines and Regeneration. -- If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me. > > There's a very good analysis of ATK effect on dps by Romidar on > > Paladins of Norrath: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/36nbz[1] > > This link does not work o( The [1], which pointed to a footnote giving the full URL, screws up some newsreaders that take the [1] to be part of the "tiny" URL. Try: http://tinyurl.com/36nbz which worked for me. -- Don. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sukrasisx, Monk 32 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail, -- Terrwini, Druid 18 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you -- http://www.iCynic.com/~don remove the "hyphen n s" >> > > I see some items I might get for my Pally have Attack values +2, >> > > +5, +10 How does this work. Does it mean that if you equip with an [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >@ndrew Of course this is pure anecdotal and in no way scientific,raising attack from the usual 1600 self-buffed to 1800 or even 1900 with Shm/Brd/Sk buffs ,I notice a lot of less misses,no more long streaks of 8 misses in a row,very rarely 3 misses in a row. Uland 65 Hunter > Of course this is pure anecdotal and in no way scientific,raising > attack from the usual 1600 self-buffed to 1800 or even 1900 with > Shm/Brd/Sk buffs ,I notice a lot of less misses,no more long streaks > of 8 misses in a row,very rarely 3 misses in a row. Scientific suggests you're wrong ;) Link later in the thread. ATK doesnt affect to hit, only weapon skill does. ATK affects average damage. Matt > Scientific suggests you're wrong ;) Link later in the thread. ATK > doesnt affect to hit, only weapon skill does. ATK affects average > damage. Did you mean to put STR there instead of ATK? You will notice (especially if you power level a character) that as a weapon skill goes up, so does ATK. It also goes up when you add Offense skill or STR. Which means (I think!) that ATK is a composite of STR (average damage), weapon skill (to hit), and offense skill (both?). AC being a composite of raw ac from gear (mitigation), AGI (avoidance), and defense skill (both?). The two seem to be complete opposites to me. So for AC, a composite number made up of "to dodge" and "to mitigate" with ATK being "to hit" and "how hard." Does that sound reasonable at all? >> Scientific suggests you're wrong ;) Link later in the thread. ATK >> doesnt affect to hit, only weapon skill does. ATK affects average [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > dodge" and "to mitigate" with ATK being "to hit" and "how hard." Does that > sound reasonable at all? Thats almost entirely right, but what I actually meant was 'addable attack', via Strength or Vengeance/Aura (+attack) items. Interestingly, items which add to accuracy (plane of time+) don't increase displayed ATK, which makes me think that rather than being a composite number it is *solely* your to-damage number. I realise it increases as weapon skill increases, but weapon skill increases both to-hit and to-damage. I think we're only seeing the visible to-damage increase. Matt A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the name Moopy <pingu@keg.zymurgy.org>: >>> Scientific suggests you're wrong ;) Link later in the thread. ATK >>> doesnt affect to hit, only weapon skill does. ATK affects average [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >both to-hit and to-damage. I think we're only seeing the visible >to-damage increase. Verant said outright it was a composite number a long time ago. However Verant was not 100% reliable when it came to their own game. The accuracy modifier is probably being applied to the formula directly instead of a variable inside it, which is maybe why it doesn't show up in atk. SignatureMagister Mundi sum! Aughra: Where is he? Jen: He's dead. Aughra: Could be anywhere, then. |
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