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Newbie Group question

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Ben F. - 27 Mar 2004 12:45 GMT
Since I got so much help on finding my corpse, I will ask another "how to"
question.

I have 2 Froglocs, a Pal 10 and a Cler 6.  (I just started the Cleric since
the new update)  Both of these Classes work well with others according to
everything I read, especially the Cleric.  I am not against being in a
group, altho usually I get asked when I am getting ready to quit, but I am
not sure what I need to do when I am in a group.  I mean this in the most
basic sence.  I have told people that I am new at this, and they say go
attack something Blue and they will do the rest.  I can do this, but I am
not really sure what I am suppose to do.  Attack and let the others in the
group come to me? attack and lead the attacker back to the group? attack
from a distance with spells and let others be up front? etc. (Like I said, I
have no knowledge on this, a true newbie)

I hate the fact that maybe I am not the best person to group with, but with
some help I think I might be of some assistance to a group.  If there is a
place I can go and read on this, or a Zone that is good for newbie groupies
I can will that a try.

Thanks again for all I have learned on this board,

Ben aka Friben Pal 10 on Nameless
Andy Pear - 27 Mar 2004 15:15 GMT
> Since I got so much help on finding my corpse, I will ask another "how to"
> question.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Ben aka Friben Pal 10 on Nameless

The traditional way to handle it is to have the group find a safe place to
stay and have a puller attack a mob and lead it back to the group.  That way
you have the best chance of dealing with mobs one on one in a relatively
safe environment.  The puller can run up and physically attack the mob, then
run back to camp, but if you have spells available it makes more sense to
use those to aggro the mob from a distance.  "Pulling" works much better
than a helter-skelter "follow the leader" approach, which is what my friends
and I did when we were newbies.  People were always getting lost and the
casters were always running instead of sitting and medding.
Chris Stolworthy - 27 Mar 2004 17:02 GMT
> > Since I got so much help on finding my corpse, I will ask another "how to"
> > question.
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> and I did when we were newbies.  People were always getting lost and the
> casters were always running instead of sitting and medding.

My advice is going to be primarly for your cleric as that is my main.  First
off, as a cleric you (almost)*never* want to pull.  At least to begin with.
Learn your char first,  you want to have Divine Aura memmed at ALL times.
THis spell has saved me numerous times.  When you accidentally pull aggro
and are getting whacked on are about to die, cast this and you have 18
seconds of invulnerability.  Next thing is do NOT chain heal.  You will pull
aggro, just like when someone does too much damage to the mob they pull
aggro, if you heal too much you will pull aggro.  I recommend getting your
heal over time spell as soon as you can.  This spell will help enormously.
Cast that on the PC taking the beatings and watch theri health.  When they
get low cast an actual heal on them to bring them back up in health.  I
always have 4 healing spells memorized.  Superior Healing, Complete Heal,
Celestial Heal, and Word of health.  Now you will usually want a root spell
memmed too, if you do pull aggro cast this on the mob and back away until
your MT can pull the aggro back on himself.  That leaves you with 2 Spell
gems for whatever else you want to use them for.  I typically have something
like stun, and flash of light memorized in them.  Something to help pull
down the AC of the mob or make it hit worse will be greatly appreciated by
your group mates.  But remember the life of the cleric is as follows, *sit,
stand, heal, sit, wait,wait, stand, heal, sit*  YOu will also want to get
your Rez spells ASAP people will greatly appreciate them even when in their
lowbie state.  I mean if you can only get a 15% rez versus none, it's still
15% regained Xp right?  Also you are the lifeblood of a group, especially in
higher lvls, if your group keeps running to the brink of destruction because
they will not let you regain your mana and you are the only healer, don't
feel responsible when they die.  One last thing, a common misconception by
most people is that you want to keep people at 100% health, this is ENTIRELY
wrong  in fact I usually don't start healing my MT until he gets in the 50's
if you try and keeep them at 100% you *WILL* pull aggro, rmember your
HoT(heal over time) spells they are a great friend.  But do not rely on them
completely, here is a link to a flash animation that will show you what
happens if you only use HoT spells.
http://home.att.ne.jp/surf/mirage/agent_sinzan_2.html

Just my personal Experience...
-Chris
Eaman Moonglade 42 Cleric
Aruvqan - 28 Mar 2004 00:43 GMT
> I mean if you can only get a 15% rez versus none, it's still
> 15% regained Xp right?  Also you are the lifeblood of a group, especially in
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> -Chris
> Eaman Moonglade 42 Cleric

Triage, learn the word, take it to heart. Tanks exist to soak up damage
while DPS takes down the mobs. Casters serve to provide DPS but are made
of tissue paper. Tanks can put out very large amounts of damage that
when combined with disciplines, weapons procs, clicky effects and buffs
serve to keep the agro off the tissu\\\\\the casters. Our job is to keep
the tanks tanking along. Sometimes we clerics have to take healing agro,
or even step in and thwap a mob with our gimpness to get it off a
caster. Someone WILL die in your group. Hopefully it isnt you =) Tanks
other than the main tank can die, and casters will die if it is between
a tank that can keep agro off me until i can pop a rez on a caster, or a
caster. I cant battle rez anybody if something is hitting me upside the
head=\ HoT spells are excellent for casters, as are blast heals like
remedy/divine light.

Depending on the group style, you actually can keep your group up and
not get agro at higher levels, mid 50s and up as you get better mana
costing heals. Do keep in mind that you do need to be a touch away from
the mobs when you heal, and never sit down immediately after...but a
heal over time is fairly low agro, and something like celestial healing
[level 44 spell, 180 per tick, 6 ticks, 225 mana] is great as it will
slowly heal the casters damage when you get the agro off them. You can
use the same spell on the non-main tanks also - it is great for rogues
if they know their class and are good at staying behind the mobs=)

Wouldnt recommend the same healing tactics in raids as groups, they are
VERY different...
Signature

Aruvqan, Cleric of 56 seasons
Avengers Federation, Solusek Ro
http://www.geocities.com/aruvqann/index.html
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men
stand ready to do violence on their behalf."  --George Orwell

Tyas_MT - 27 Mar 2004 17:20 GMT
> Since I got so much help on finding my corpse, I will ask another "how to"
> question.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Ben aka Friben Pal 10 on Nameless
Grouping 101: How to make friends and get lotsa lewt.
First thing is to decide if you are a sit at home group, or a roaming group.
sit-at-home's tend to do better, and become the norm after 15-20th.
Basically, the group finds a spot, and everyone with the exception of one
player (the 'puller', who is not necessarily the 'tank' but can be) stays
there, while the puller goes and finds things, gets their attention, and
brings them back to be slaughtered.

There are many many 'roles' in a group, some classes fit strongly in one
niche and no others (Wizard=Non-tanking damage dealer), some do well on the
swing shift (Druids can be damage dealers, healers/buffers, or primitive
crowd control.) Know your role.
Roles:
Puller: You go out and find things for the group to kill. A Puller has to
have the mental ability to navigate, I've grouped with paladins you had to
lead everywhere, but they could tank like noone's business. A puller on the
other hand, can't afford to get lost on his way back to the group. Lost=dead
and could= nasty Corpse Recovery. Classwise, it helps if the puller has ways
to control the number of creatures it's pulling, or if it can pull at a
distance. Crowd control characters can

Tank: You've got time to bleed. It's your job. The 'main tank' is the person
designated to take as much damage as possible from the mobs. I leave a
discussion of the methodology of being a tank to others more qualified. A
tank can also be puller, but in a fast group having a separate puller speeds
things up even more. The classic tanks are Warrior, Shadow Knight, and
Paladin. Other classes can make do in a pinch, and at lower levels the
Ranger, Monk, Beastlord, and Rogue can make do better than most others.

Non-tank damage dealer: Most characters can do this role. You DOT it, nuke
it, beat it with a stick, sic your pet on it, poke it in the back with
pointy things, make it a pin cushion. Once you get into the teens, and
especially the 20s, most classes can no longer stand up to the pounding of a
dark blue con mob, but some can dish out enourmous damage.

Snarer: Druids, rangers, and necromancers (shadowknights too?) can 'snare'
their targets. Lacking those classes, you can get it rooted by others, but
snare is better. At around 25% health many mobs will turn to run. This can
be bad. With snare, they tend to turn to run and not be able to move,
meaning everyone gets to pound the targets for free.

Crowd control: My specialty, crowd control is the art of having the puller
come back with several mobs, and getting all but the one the group is going
to concentrate on out of action for a bit. This can be by charming, mezzing,
rooting, snare/fearing, off tanking with pets or tough tanks, dropping a
spell on them and kiting them around, whatever, but the concept is that the
fight will go better if you can concentrate your firepower as much as
possible on one target at  a time.

Healer: People bleed. Healers make them better. Most healers also 'buff'.

Buffer: Buffers contribute more indirectly to the cause. My enchanter may do
less than 1% of the damage the group does personally, but his haste spells
on the tanks, and mana regen spells on the nukers, mean his effective
contribution probably approaches half the damage the group is doing. The
cleric makes the tank better with his AC/HP buffs. Makes me a better Crowd
controller too, as I can take a few hits now. Most casters have at least a
few buffs. Shamans can load a person down, and are in high demand because of
it.

Debuffer: What buffers do to players, debuffers anti-do to mobs. My
enchanter, along with that nice 70% or so haste, has a 50% or so slow, which
means the mob swings half as often. Snare is technically a debuff but is
important enough to get it's own section above.

Supply sergeant: The mage has a special skill most other classes don't have
in any quantity, the ability to summon lots of odds and ends the group can
find useful. Bandages, arrows, throwing knives, levitation rings, food,
water, vision items, weapons, armor, (good for pets), and caster focus
wear... at high levels a mage can outfit an entire group for that nasty
corpse recovery.  A few other classes get food and drink, and a few
miscellaneous items.
There are other roles, but that gets the major ones I think

For the two classes you listed:
Cleric: Traditional duty: Healer/buffer. Other roles: Nuker, especially
against undead. For all that they wear plate they really cannot tank.
As a low level cleric you will spend most of your time with your rear end on
the ground, medding back that oh so precious mana. What you want to do:
Figure out what are your hp buffs. Those need to be cast on the main tank
(at your low level however, there may not be a well defined tank), and
anyone else that regularly takes hits. If you have the mana available to do
it the good way to do this is to cast it on yourself, then each other
character that is going to get it in turn. Then when yours starts blinking
you know everyone is about to lose their buff.
Pay attention to everyone's hitpoints... When they get low, heal them. Learn
how much of the 'bar' your heals do on each player... it will be different
based on gear and class! Only 'top off' people's health during a lull when
you have full mana.
Mana reports: Sometimes you will get a group, and you will see the tank ask
'Mana?' or 'mr?'. He wants to know the percentage of mana you have
available. Each bubble is 20%, and you can eyeball to about 5%, so report in
10s or 5s (eg /g 70)
Each person has their own style. Some report in bubbles (70% is 3.5), others
actually roleplay it a bit ('meez gotz 3 mugs of sparklies left' for a troll
shaman... that's 3 bubbles)
Another is frequency. I vary. Some groups that grind my mana hard up and
down the bar, I report every time the puller is going out to get more
munchies. Some groups when my mana is just hovering between 40%-80% most of
the time, I'll only warn at 20%.  (actually I usually say /g 20% at 30%, but
that's just my conservative side kicking in) or announce when I'm full mana
(/g fm) so they know we need to kill faster cause they are not pushing me at
all.
(terminology info, some will use /g lom and /g oom for low on mana, out of
mana. For my troll I prefer the more in character 'Me gotz no more
sparklies!')

Paladin: Paladins can be a puller (the lull line helps them there, and stun
pulling gives you a head start back), and are designed to be a tank. With
heavy armor and lots of hitpoints, plus their own buffs and the ability to
heal themselves some, they make good tanks. Learn to love the 'taunt'
button.  Depending on what you are fighting and how things are going, you
may be spot healing yourself, stunning, or just using your mana for pulling.
Lay on hands is your 'fix me now!' key, and  also good when the wizard gets
agro and is folding like wet cardboard. You can be a pocket healer if
necessary, but there are several better alternatives out there. Still it's
better than Mr. Monk can do for others.

Basically in most groups your job will be to go get things for people to
kill, attack targets, try to maintain agro so you bleed the most, and spend
your mana reasonably (If you're not using any of it you're not using your
class to it's fullest.) Note do not just step in and try to take over agro
if you join an existing group with an existing tank. Figure out which one
will be bleeding the most... the other should generally not taunt, though
stunning, etc is useful.

Hope this helps
--
Tyas
Frinka - 27 Mar 2004 21:17 GMT
> Grouping 101: How to make friends and get lotsa lewt.
>
> [rest of wonderful post snipped]

Thank you.  Really really really -- thank you for the wonderful post

I've soloed my main and pretty much only character, a Druid, all the way to
46 with no meaningful group experience.  (Please, I'm a nice person, don't
rant on me about this....)  Mainly this is because when I've tried to group,
and explain to folks that I need them to really explain what I should do,
they *never* do.  And of course, it gets harder the higher you go.  It seems
rude to me at this point to group when I don't have the slightest clue what
to do.
someone@msn.com - 28 Mar 2004 09:49 GMT
>> Grouping 101: How to make friends and get lotsa lewt.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>rude to me at this point to group when I don't have the slightest clue what
>to do.

I wouldnt worry to much about that. Ive been playing for a few months
now and my main is up to lvl 42.  I notice that most of the people
dont know how to group properly yet.  Ive done some ldon's lately
where the group can barley handle a MistMoore normal and Ive been in
some where the people are so good we can go to Marr(not sure what its
called but much harder then MM) and handle it with ease.
Diminutive - 29 Mar 2004 18:48 GMT
<snip>

> I've soloed my main and pretty much only character, a Druid, all the
> way to 46 with no meaningful group experience.  (Please, I'm a nice
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> harder the higher you go.  It seems rude to me at this point to group
> when I don't have the slightest clue what to do.

Maybe I can help you out a bit here.

Allthough Druids can serve as a main healer (this is entirely dependent
on group composition, level, and the mobs your are fighting), Normally
your job is to snare, dot, nuke, buff (most of your buffs are really not
needed if a shaman is present, but buffs like DS's are always in
demand), evacing, and back up heal.

Always keep some available mana to help out the cleric in times of
crisis. Also, topping off the health of your group mates between pulls
can help out the cleric tremendously.

Never snare before the tank has firm aggro (my rule of thumb is that the
mob's health is down my 20%), as snare tends to make the mob quite mad
:) Also, don't sit down right after either, allow a few moments for your
hate to diminish a bit.

Druids, as you know, have some very nice dots at later levels, use them,
but be smart about it. They also generate a lot of hate.

The touchiest job we may have to do is evacing the group when the sh.t 
hits the fan. Evac too soon, and you have a mad group. Evac too late,
you have a dead group. This is usually a learning experience that you
gain after grouping for a while. So you may have to get a few tongue
lashings from your group now and again :)

Basically it comes down to watching the group, and learning what its
needs are. Druids can do alot of things, so percieving what is actually
needed in a group is very important.

If I have missed anything, I am sure I will be corrected :)

Hope this helps.

Signature

Diminutive Loweninski
55 Preserver, Torvonnilous

"Arguments over grammar and style are often as fierce as those over IBM
versus Mac, and as fruitless as Coke versus Pepsi and boxers versus
briefs." -- Jack Lynch

Equinol - 31 Mar 2004 08:04 GMT
> > Grouping 101: How to make friends and get lotsa lewt.

Summary at the end, I wrote a bit much...

Just thought this might clarify the role part of the post a bit.
Basically same info, just a different format, I just perfer it this way
=p. (This is the role in a group, not necessarily soloing, or
raiding.):

Bard: The bards purpose in a group is the assist others. in both DPS
(damage per second), mana/hp regenartion, running speed, tanking at low
levels, pulling, crowd control (unless there is an enchanter) and
anything else you can think of. One of the most unique classes, you'll
have to play one to really understand them =).

Beastlord: The Bastlords help in two big ways, DPS and buffing.
Beastlords get most shamans spells, although at later levels, and some
ones of their own. This can help the others in the group greatly. The
other part, DPS, is accomplished through their pet. The more things
beating on the mob the better (as long as the tank keeps the agro)
;-).

Cleric: Main healer, objective is to keep the tank alive. Also has some
buffs to help raise the tanks hp/ac. This is tied for the most
important class in a group, tied with the tank.

Druid: Druids can not only buff, but also heal in a group. Although not
as good as a cleric, they can still keep the tank alive in most
grouping situations. As far as buffs go, they have a couple HP/ac
buffs, along with DSs (When you take melee damage you return a certain
amount), and what have you.

Enchanter: Can we say, crowd control? Especially in high end, when the
puller messes up and pulls to many mobs, the enchanters will mezz all
but the one the tank is attacking. This will prevent it from attacking,
and just stand there staring. (Bards can also do this, however not
nearly as well). A few other roles are haste, to assist in DPS, and the
clarity line of spells, aka: Crack. The more mana regen, the less
downtime between fights, idealy none.

Magician: The magicians specialty is summoning. This can vary from pets
(Great additions to DPS), to items used to regen mana (High end spell,
you can worry about that later). They can also nuke, root, the basics.

Monk: Monks are often the pullers in groups. This is because of their
special skill, fiegn death, which, if the pull goes bad, stops all mobs
from attacking them, and wander back to where they were pulled from.
They also assist in the groups DPS quite well. Can tank in low end
groups aswell.

Necromancer: As the other pet classes, Necro's get a pet skelly that
helps greatly with the groups DPS. They also have great DoTs (Damage of
time), which help kill the mob, along with some spells that tansfer hp
to mana, and mana from them to others.

Palidan: A cross of a warrior and a cleric. They can tank quite well,
even in high end, and can heal decently. They also get most cleric
buffs and some unique ones.

Ranger: Ah, another DPS class ;-). Rangers have a specialty in bows,
especially in high end, where they can deal great quantities of damage.
They also have much of the druid line of spells, along witha  few
unique ones. They can tank low, mid and sometimes even highend mobs.

Rogue: DPS, DPS, DPS. Rogues get a skill called backstab, which deals
great damage to the mob, along good normal melee damage. They also are
useful pullers, with special stealth abilities to keep away extra mobs
on pulls, or just while traveling.

Shadow knight: Shadow knights are a kind of mix between necros and
warriors. They get pets, although weaker then necro pets, and some of
the necro line of spells, while still maintaining good tanking
abilities. Shadow knights can often tank highend mobs.

Shamans: Shamans can not only buff, but heal quite well too. If no
clerics are avaliable, groups usually look for a shaman to heal. They
also have many, many buffs to help with players stats. They also get a
pet, although it's considerably weaker then other pet classes pets.

Warrior: They are almost always they are the tank/meatshield in the
group. The warriors job is to make the enimie hate him so much that he
is the only person to ever be attacked. Warriors have some abilities to
help them do this (taunt), and high hp so they don't die. Often pull
for the group, for ease of the group, that way they don't have to steal
agro before the puller dies.

Alright, here's the bare bones:
Bard: DPS/songs
Beastlord: DPS/buffs
Cleric: Healing+/buffs+
Druid: Healing/buffs
Enchanter: Crack/Crowd Control
Magician: DPS/summons
Monk: DPS/pulling
Necromancer: DPS/buffs
Palidan: Tank/heals
Ranger: DPS/buffs
Rogue: DPS/pulling
Shadow Knight: Tank/DPS
Shaman: Healing/buffs+
Warrior: Tank+/pulling

Basic group set up:

Slot 1) Tank: Warrior+/Palidan/Shadow Knight
Slot 2) Healer: Cleric+/Druid/Shaman
Slot 3) Crowd Control: Enchanter+/Bard
Slot 4) DPS: Pretty much any not already there.
Slot 5) DPS: ^
Slot 6) DPS: ^

Some cases require different setups, but that's a basic one.

Enough of my rambling.

__________________________________________________________
Submitted by: Equinol
This message was submitted through the Erollisi Marr Forum
Annie Benson-Lennaman - 30 Mar 2004 19:56 GMT

> Grouping 101: How to make friends and get lotsa lewt.

  Indeed, a great post.  I'm adding most of it to the FAQ, with a few minor
changes to make it a general point of view rather than an enchanter's.  Thanks
for writing this!

> First thing is to decide if you are a sit at home group, or a roaming group.
> sit-at-home's tend to do better, and become the norm after 15-20th.
[quoted text clipped - 128 lines]
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Graeme Faelban - 30 Mar 2004 20:20 GMT
> Tank: You've got time to bleed. It's your job. The 'main tank' is the
> person designated to take as much damage as possible from the mobs. I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> pinch, and at lower levels the Ranger, Monk, Beastlord, and Rogue can
> make do better than most others.

Just one nit, the main tank is not disignated to take as much damage as
possible, but rather he is the only one who should be taking any
significant portion of the damage from the mob.

> Non-tank damage dealer: Most characters can do this role. You DOT it,
> nuke it, beat it with a stick, sic your pet on it, poke it in the back
> with pointy things, make it a pin cushion. Once you get into the
> teens, and especially the 20s, most classes can no longer stand up to
> the pounding of a dark blue con mob, but some can dish out enourmous
> damage.

I tank dark blues often, just have to be a bit picky about it.

> Snarer: Druids, rangers, and necromancers (shadowknights too?) can
> 'snare' their targets. Lacking those classes, you can get it rooted by
> others, but snare is better. At around 25% health many mobs will turn
> to run. This can be bad. With snare, they tend to turn to run and not
> be able to move, meaning everyone gets to pound the targets for free.

SKs yes, add Wizards too, in a pinch, although theirs is AoE snare.

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

Diminutive - 31 Mar 2004 03:12 GMT
>> Tank: You've got time to bleed. It's your job. The 'main tank' is the
>> person designated to take as much damage as possible from the mobs. I
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> as possible, but rather he is the only one who should be taking any
> significant portion of the damage from the mob.

Actually I would define the tank as the character who should be taking
ALL the damage, which of course, can be equated to as much damage as
possible.

That is why a tank, is a tank.

Who else in a group should be expected to take damage?

Signature

Diminutive Loweninski
55 Preserver, Torvonnilous

"Arguments over grammar and style are often as fierce as those over IBM
versus Mac, and as fruitless as Coke versus Pepsi and boxers versus
briefs." -- Jack Lynch

Remington Stone - 31 Mar 2004 03:30 GMT
Diminutive  said:
}Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in
}> "Tyas_MT" <tyas_mt@hotplonkmail.com> wrote in
}>> Tank: You've got time to bleed. It's your job. The 'main tank' is the
}>> person designated to take as much damage as possible from the mobs.
}> Just one nit, the main tank is not disignated to take as much damage
}> as possible, but rather he is the only one who should be taking any
}> significant portion of the damage from the mob.
}Actually I would define the tank as the character who should be taking
}ALL the damage, which of course, can be equated to as much damage as
}possible.
}That is why a tank, is a tank.
}Who else in a group should be expected to take damage?

The shaman, and the enchanter.  And probably any wizards or necros that
happen to be around.  In an ideal world, true, slows would never be
resisted, and always land at the earliest-possible not-aggro-getting
moment, as opposed to the latest-possible aggro-getting moment.  But this
world is far from ideal.  Similarly, some of those adds are gonna have to
be tashed before mezz/root will stick.  Who do ya think's offtanking
unslowed mobs til mezz finally sticks?

Also, you should expect DPS classes to take damage.  They are trying
to do the most possible damage they can without getting aggro.  It's a
fine line.  Sure, they could always just do less damage, but then the mob
dies slower and the cleric's mana runs out faster anyway.  It's a tough
balance.

The main tank should take as much damage as possible.  Everyone else
should avoid taking a 'significant' share, if they can.  But expecting the
tank to take -all- the damage every time is living in a dreamworld, and
the cleric's gonna go OOM rezzing everyone.

Note:  I'm not talking about a raid, since the question is about groups.  
If the tank's trying to corner AoW, back the f.ck off and hold your tash.
:)

[37 Enchanter] Zinphandel Chianti (Gnome) Firiona Vie
Diminutive - 31 Mar 2004 03:52 GMT
> Diminutive  said:
> }Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> [37 Enchanter] Zinphandel Chianti (Gnome) Firiona Vie

You have some good points. I guess I was speaking more from the raid
perspective. My fault for not paying more attention to the conversation
at hand :)

Cheers.

Signature

Diminutive Loweninski
55 Preserver, Torvonnilous

"Arguments over grammar and style are often as fierce as those over IBM
versus Mac, and as fruitless as Coke versus Pepsi and boxers versus
briefs." -- Jack Lynch

Graeme Faelban - 31 Mar 2004 16:52 GMT
>> Diminutive  said:
>> }Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> perspective. My fault for not paying more attention to the conversation
> at hand :)

Even on raids, many mobs will have AoE spells, rampage, and inevitable
adds.  The job of the MA is to keep the aggro of the current raid target
solidly on himself, not to take ALL the damage.

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

bob - 31 Mar 2004 06:49 GMT
> >> Tank: You've got time to bleed. It's your job. The 'main tank' is the
> >> person designated to take as much damage as possible from the mobs. I
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Who else in a group should be expected to take damage?

i take damage for my group all the time.  and by group i mean a necro (me)
and a rogue.  the way i see it, i got DoT spells going on every monster in
the mob and to cast more is probably a waste of mana cuz we'd have to stop
and rest too much, so i just cast leach on a few monsters and run up to soak
up damage while drawing attention away from the rogue, after all, the
leaches do bring in a fair amount of HP every six seconds.  i call it my
living shield technique.
Graeme Faelban - 31 Mar 2004 16:49 GMT
>>> Tank: You've got time to bleed. It's your job. The 'main tank' is the
>>> person designated to take as much damage as possible from the mobs. I
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Who else in a group should be expected to take damage?

Well, no, there is a difference, if he wanted to take as much damage as
possible, he'd strip off his armor first, sit between swings, and such.  
He is most definitely not the one who should be taking ALL the damage,
others will take damage for a variety of reasons.  Rampage, AoE spells,
adds...

Signature

On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

bob - 31 Mar 2004 06:37 GMT
> Since I got so much help on finding my corpse, I will ask another "how to"
> question.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Ben aka Friben Pal 10 on Nameless

   been reading the posts and have heard alot of great suggestions, but i
think (notice i say think, i too am kinda new) that it really depends on the
group.  me and my friend, for example, just go bomb around lavastorm looking
for whatever we can find and then beat the hell out of it.  this works for
me cuz i am a necro and can cast DoT spells and then just meditate while him
and my pet do the rest.  i guess this would be your "roaming" group.
   my other favorite group is with me (necro), a couple of my beastlord
friends, and a cleric.  we all go to the west commonlands and sit by a camp
(i think its called cut throat??? anyway, a camp of all light blues, blues,
and an occasional yellow).  we wait for them to spawn and then we tell
someone to "pull," knowing quite well that its next to impossible to pull
just one and in about 2 seconds we're gonna have about 5 or 6 cut throats
(or is it deathfist?  oh, wait...that's the orcs...) attacking us all at
once, with the occasional young kodak who was just passing by.  ANYWHO...by
the end of the fight we are all out of mana and at about 40% health and
saying things like "damn!" and "close one" or even "that was hella fun!"
after that, we all sit and meditate until we're at full health/mana and the
enemies have respawned.  then go at it again.  (there are quite a few deaths
in this kind of group, but you can still rake in the xp)

so i guess my point is this:
we could sit here for days posting back and forth about different kinds of
groups, but i think the best kind is the kind where you just hook up with
some friends and beat the shiitake mushrooms out of anything that comes your
way.  HAVE FUN!!!

PS
whats the name of that camp in the West Commonlands with the ogres and
barbarians (or are they humans??? i can't tell the difference)
Hamsterface - 31 Mar 2004 09:02 GMT
> Since I got so much help on finding my corpse, I will ask another "how to"
> question.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Ben aka Friben Pal 10 on Nameless

Best thing to do if you are inexperienced in a group is LISTEN.

All but the most obnoxious groups will not have a problem with you
being new to grouping.  They'll generally try to be very helpful.

You are going to make what they perceive as mistakes and they'll tell
you so.  It will be hard at first to judge whether what you are doing
is wrong or whether  it just doesn't fit with their particular play
style.

Take an example:  We've had new people crowding the person calming
mobs.  This often results in mobs getting pulled too early when they
are not all calmed.  If  you listen and stop doing that then fine.  If
you do it on every pull after being asked many times and eventually
cause a serious overpull that wipes the group ... well lets just say
that ain't the way to make friends.
 
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