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Game Forum / Action Games / Doom / November 2004

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Silent Bob. - 11 Oct 2004 12:19 GMT
Well, thanks to the help of good folk twice along the way, I've finally done
it and completed it.

I just wanted to say that this is by FAR the coolest game I have ever
played - I dont understand all the whining that goes on in here, the game
itself *incited emotion* which is enough of a winner in itself. I have never
been more scared in my life. Especially early on.

Once again, it was awesome fun, took me around 2.5 months playing here and
there and I think it was well worth it.

Now Im off to celebrate with a monster scoob, followed by the installation
of Far Cry 3 - something to challenge my wits again.

Ill hang around and try impart some of the knowledge you guys gave me - I
FEEL VINDICATED!!!!!!!!!

Regards
SB
ArWeGod - 11 Oct 2004 13:08 GMT
> Well, thanks to the help of good folk twice along the way, I've finally done
> it and completed it.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Ill hang around and try impart some of the knowledge you guys gave me - I
> FEEL VINDICATED!!!!!!!!!

Indeed. Some people complain it not Doom2, but you know what? I have a
game exactly like Doom2 on my hard disk! Also, Duke Nukem, Shadow
Warrior, etc. Doom3 is not Doom2.

People always complain about change. I remember when David Bowie, Elvis
Costello, or the Rolling Stones would put out an album (a round disk of
scratched wax that was used to reproduce sounds) and the "fans" would
howl in rage. You certainly don't find that "problem" with a Britney
Spears album.

Signature

ArWeNimble

Avid Gamer - 11 Oct 2004 14:51 GMT
Yeah i finished it yesterday, GOD moded though the last levels, i was
SO BORED, could not be bothered trying to beat the baddies over and
over again, same attacks, same spawing behind you, stupid ambushes.

Can say it was a real waste of money, i have not be so bored playing a
game.

Oh well maybe Halflife 2 will be better ?

>> Well, thanks to the help of good folk twice along the way, I've
>finally done
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>howl in rage. You certainly don't find that "problem" with a Britney
>Spears album.
Dan C - 11 Oct 2004 19:23 GMT
> Yeah i finished it yesterday, GOD moded though the last levels, i was

You must be so proud of yourself.

> Can say it was a real waste of money, i have not be so bored playing a
> game.

So why'd you continue to play it?

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If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

Blaedmon - 11 Oct 2004 21:27 GMT
Say no more.. 'God Mode'. I'd probably think most people that complain about
the game are using invulnerability cheats and so forth, with the added
wimpyness of playing through the game on Marine or Veteran. I guess its not
completely these peoples fault, though. id have made a mistake, imho, by
catering for the weaker players in having skill levels too easy. Marine?
Simple. Veteran? Simple. Now Nightmare skill is where the game is found.
However, starting with 25 health and a soul cube is a bit of a w.nk, though.
The lowest skill should have been Nightmare to start as default, with no
modifiers.
An added 'better' idea to act in conjunction with this is the INability to
save at just 'any' time you want. Whats the point in that? You get killed,
reload a savegame, try again. Stupid idea. You're effectively using another
invulnerability cheat by exploiting this. A savegame could only be
accessable if youve reached a certain point, perhaps, or not exceeded a
specified time in which to kill x amount of enemies - if you exceed said
time, you dont get a savegame. Or perhaps only a set amount of savegames
like in Soldier of Fortune (I think).
Anyway theres probably many other ways to improve gameplay. After all, this
IS Doom3. THE Doom3. Supposed to be bigger, badder, and with more teeth. I
guess id could only do what they've done, in hindsight. hey cant ONLY cater
for the hardcore players - or they'd alienate 50% of their target audience.
So I guess it comes down to this: the games 'crap' because YOU'RE crap. The
reverse of course can be said also. Nightmare all the way >:D

> Yeah i finished it yesterday, GOD moded though the last levels, i was
> SO BORED, could not be bothered trying to beat the baddies over and
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>>howl in rage. You certainly don't find that "problem" with a Britney
>>Spears album.
Inglo - 11 Oct 2004 23:04 GMT
On 10/11/2004 1:27 PM Blaedmon brightened our day with:

>Say no more.. 'God Mode'. I'd probably think most people that complain about
>the game are using invulnerability cheats and so forth, with the added
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>reverse of course can be said also. Nightmare all the way >:D
>  

I'm sorry, but any game that doesn't let me save where I want to pisses
me off.  I don't see how having to go through the same 15 minutes of
gameplay over and over again just to get to the point one's having
trouble with in any way improves a games experience.  I have an XBox and
several games on it are like that, it does not enhance the experience,
just makes me feel stupid.  I'm not that good at using an XBox
controller, I don't get how to accomplish a lot of the combo moves that
there are, I want to just have fun with it.  So despite the fact that I
agree Doom 3 is not too challenging on Veteran difficulty, I do
sympathize with people who do have a tough time even on recruit.    I'm
playing the Return of the King game on the XBox right now, on easy, and
I'm getting constantly creamed.  And when I think, this is a broad
appeal game, based on one of the biggest movies of all time, they are
not trying to make it impossible for an average gamer, therefore I must
be completely pathetic.   It's actually a pretty fun game but it's
frustrating me right now.

The way I here some people talk it's as if the only "real" way to play
Doom 3 or other FPS would be that as soon as you get killed once in the
game you should uninstall the game from your hard drive and smash the
CDs up with a hammer.

Despite all that I do kinda agree with you, just as far as some people's
experience of the game being colored by the fact that they just plain
suck :-) .

Signature

"Coming soon: Meatspace spyware, little men who live in your cupboards and watch what you eat and then try to sell you timeshares in Toronto."

Steve ¤»Inglo«¤
www.inglostadt.com

Shawk - 11 Oct 2004 23:51 GMT
> On 10/11/2004 1:27 PM Blaedmon brightened our day with:
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> experience of the game being colored by the fact that they just plain suck
> :-) .

Far Cry got the save points right but that was a game that quickly taught
you not to rush in gung ho.  You could try a different approach, sneak past
the guards that got you last time.  It wouldn't work with D3.  No matter how
stealthy you are the imps etc are still going to be triggered in front and
behind you.  IMHO instant save is the only way it could have been done
without peeing everyone off as per Inglo's post.  Share the views on cheats
though.  If I can't beat the game without them I practise until I can.  Same
reason I dont read walkthroughs.  Shaun

ArWeGod - 12 Oct 2004 00:18 GMT
> > On 10/11/2004 1:27 PM Blaedmon brightened our day with:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> >>w.nk, though. The lowest skill should have been Nightmare to start as
> >>default, with no modifiers.

Don't forget the underpowered machines! At 10-12 FPS Vetern is plenty
challenging for me. I'm stuck at the Spider Lady right now on Veteran
(oh, without any chaingun ammo). And no, I'm not going use a cheat to
get ammo or use God mode to get past.

I won the game at Marine and kicked myself for not playing it at Veteran
right away. I usually start off new games at the second-to-hardest
level, but all the hype and the people in the store were saying you HAD
to play Novice because it was too hard. What wimps.

> >>An added 'better' idea to act in conjunction with this is the INability to
> >>save at just 'any' time you want. Whats the point in that? You get killed,
> >>reload a savegame, try again. Stupid idea. You're effectively using
> >>another invulnerability cheat by exploiting this.

Well, I DO save a lot... ;-)

> > I'm sorry, but any game that doesn't let me save where I want to pisses me
> > off.  I don't see how having to go through the same 15 minutes of gameplay
> > over and over again just to get to the point one's having trouble with in
> > any way improves a games experience.

Yeah! Anyone remember Ghosts and Goblins. Really tough levels and no
save at all. You die, you go through the whole thing again. What a waste
of time. Of course you ended up a master of the early levels, but then
they were pretty boring to slog through just to die again. LHX Chopper
did the same thing, except you could save the game after a mission, but
when you died, you died. I hacked the save game and made a loader that
saved off your game before launching the game so that if you died, I put
back the save game and you could try again. I also added a Top Ten,
since there wasn't one in the game.

> > The way I here some people talk it's as if the only "real" way to play
> > Doom 3 or other FPS would be that as soon as you get killed once in the
> > game you should uninstall the game from your hard drive and smash the CDs
> > up with a hammer.

LOL!

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ArWeRealMarines(tm)

Marshall - 12 Oct 2004 04:57 GMT
>> On 10/11/2004 1:27 PM Blaedmon brightened our day with:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> everyone off as per Inglo's post.  Share the views on cheats though.  If I can't beat the game without them I practise until I
> can.  Same reason I dont read walkthroughs.  Shaun

(the below rant is not aimed at you, Shaun, just tagging your post)

All modern games already include the ability for anyone to play any difficulty
level they like with no quicksaves, if that floats their boat- simply unmap the
quicksave key from your keyboard, and play without it. If those people don't
have the willpower to simply do that and play without the quicksave key to get
their "I'm-hardcore-I-play-without-any-wimpy-quicksaves!" jollies, and instead
demand that the game companies go to some totally f.cked 'savepoint' method
like the console crowd has been getting boned with for the past couple of
decades, thereby screwing over the far larger majority of us who like the
quicksave capability just fine, thank you... all I can say is- f.ck 'em. They
ain't getting any sympathy from me for their laziness. Takes about 10 seconds
to unmap that quicksave key- do that if you want that capability.
   -Marshall
Shawk - 12 Oct 2004 08:20 GMT
> (the below rant is not aimed at you, Shaun, just tagging your post)

No worries - tend to agree with you.  Shaun
McGrandpa - 13 Oct 2004 05:37 GMT
> On 10/11/2004 1:27 PM Blaedmon brightened our day with:
>
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
> Steve ??Inglo??
> www.inglostadt.com

That it's a game, I'd think we all should enjoy it however we do.  Like
Morrowind!   If I choose to challenge myself and play the game all over
if I get my doomguy killed, then that's my fun, right?   I sure don't
expect anyone to have fun the way I do!   It might not, um, be any fun
for you?
McG.
Cy Edmunds - 12 Oct 2004 02:21 GMT
> Say no more.. 'God Mode'. I'd probably think most people that complain about
> the game are using invulnerability cheats and so forth, with the added
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> time, you dont get a savegame. Or perhaps only a set amount of savegames
> like in Soldier of Fortune (I think).

I don't agree. iD software has evidently taken the view that it's your game
and you can play it however you want. That's why the cheat codes aren't
secrets and a wide range of skill levels is supported. If you want to play
on God mode or Nightmare mode or just noclip around, you paid your money so
it's your choice. And you can save as frequently or infrequently as you
want. I think that's the right approach.

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Cycho{HHR}
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/

David CL Francis - 17 Oct 2004 19:57 GMT
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 at 01:21:15 in message
<fkGad.5864$l07.885@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, Cy Edmunds
<cedmunds@spamless.rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>I don't agree. iD software has evidently taken the view that it's your game
>and you can play it however you want. That's why the cheat codes aren't
>secrets and a wide range of skill levels is supported. If you want to play
>on God mode or Nightmare mode or just noclip around, you paid your money so
>it's your choice. And you can save as frequently or infrequently as you
>want. I think that's the right approach.

I do agree. I am old, probably one of the oldest people to play this
sort of game. If they were all pitched at a level suitable for 18 to 30
year old enthusiasts with hair trigger reactions and hours of time to
practice then I would not buy or enjoy any of them.

As it is I can cheat just enough to retain my interest and enjoyment. I
have not got very far but I am having fun. Surely it does not take much
strength of will to keep to a level of 'cheating' that maximises your
enjoyment?
Signature

David CL Francis

McGrandpa - 17 Oct 2004 20:25 GMT
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 at 01:21:15 in message
> <fkGad.5864$l07.885@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, Cy Edmunds
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> --
> David CL Francis

I think you got the right idea.  It's a game, and you play it in
whatever way you have fun.  So, keep having fun with it David!
McG.
ArWeGod - 18 Oct 2004 09:23 GMT
> > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 at 01:21:15 in message
> > <fkGad.5864$l07.885@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, Cy Edmunds
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> I think you got the right idea.  It's a game, and you play it in
> whatever way you have fun.  So, keep having fun with it David!

Also, the game is replayable. Sometimes you just want to buzz thru
something you once played "Properly" (as I always do, *cough*) or play
in hard mode for fun, but not get stuck somewhere, cos you're just
"having fun".

Or you ripped a copy from a friend and want a quick way to run through
at full speed so you can have some 'cred, but not actually earn it, as
lamers will desire.

ID is non-judgmental. Always remember: just because the Force has a
(quick and dirty) Dark Side doesn't mean you _have_ to succumb. But
being a Pure Soul doesn't buy you a cup of coffee, either.

Signature

ArWeDecisive

Allan Martin - 18 Oct 2004 13:04 GMT
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 at 01:21:15 in message
> <fkGad.5864$l07.885@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, Cy Edmunds
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> old enthusiasts with hair trigger reactions and hours of time to practice
> then I would not buy or enjoy any of them.

Just how old are you that you label yourself the oldest person to play
DOOM3?

> As it is I can cheat just enough to retain my interest and enjoyment. I
> have not got very far but I am having fun. Surely it does not take much
> strength of will to keep to a level of 'cheating' that maximises your
> enjoyment?
David CL Francis - 19 Oct 2004 17:53 GMT
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
<xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
<Allan@Ua-Corp.com> wrote:

>Just how old are you that you label yourself the oldest person to play
>DOOM3?

I knew someone would ask that! 74 years.
Signature

David CL Francis

marXbig - 19 Oct 2004 18:41 GMT
>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
><xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>I knew someone would ask that! 74 years.

I'm impressed...53 years here.   :)

marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.
Dave - 19 Oct 2004 19:18 GMT
>Subject: Re: Finished!
>From: marXbig
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>I'm impressed...53 years here.   :)

I'm just a young one.. will be 48years Oct. 30th  :)
Heck - 20 Oct 2004 04:22 GMT
>>Subject: Re: Finished!
>>From: marXbig
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>I'm just a young one.. will be 48years Oct. 30th  :)

This is the best Me too! thread ever.  I'll be 48 Dec. 31.
Diver - 20 Oct 2004 05:40 GMT
>>>Subject: Re: Finished!
>>>From: marXbig
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>This is the best Me too! thread ever.  I'll be 48 Dec. 31.

Looks like the old codgers rule :)
Heck - 20 Oct 2004 18:12 GMT
>>>>Subject: Re: Finished!
>>>>From: marXbig
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>Looks like the old codgers rule :)

People get smarter and more sensitive to what they ought to do as they get
older.  Of course we rule.  Except of course, there are those pesky drives,
biological and psychological.  And the cynicial self-interest.  And the
mean-spiritedness.  And the tiredness.  And the sense of impending loss.
Um.
pop - 20 Oct 2004 18:19 GMT
note sig...

Signature

pop is Mark
Old age ain't no place for sissies.
--

> >On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:22:43 -0400, Heck
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> mean-spiritedness.  And the tiredness.  And the sense of impending loss.
> Um.
Bart Goddard - 20 Oct 2004 19:16 GMT
> People get smarter and more sensitive to what they ought to do as they
> get older.  Of course we rule.  Except of course, there are those
> pesky drives, biological and psychological.  And the cynicial
> self-interest.  And the mean-spiritedness.  And the tiredness.  And
> the sense of impending loss. Um.

"Youth and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery."
Heck - 21 Oct 2004 03:43 GMT
The levers of mind-change not to mention money-making.  Bart Goddard
<goddardbe@netscape.net> wrote:

>> People get smarter and more sensitive to what they ought to do as they
>> get older.  Of course we rule.  Except of course, there are those
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>"Youth and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery."
So true.  I want to design a game that will appeal almost exclusively to
men in their early forties and older.  It has to be smart, and the features
(characters, game-play , whatever) have to get smarter as the play
proceeds.  Does it have to require reflexes and coordination, as does D3?
It has to have puzzles of some sort.  It has to inform you, it has to focus
you, It has to make you stop for a second and consider its novelty.

What might be the venue?  It has to have a great payoff, e.g., a
dynamically-generated solution to a real user-supplied problem.  I have an
angle on the epistomological parts, how to design and code such stuff, but
what would it look like, how would it be instantiated?
marXbig - 21 Oct 2004 16:13 GMT
>The levers of mind-change not to mention money-making.  Bart Goddard
><goddardbe@netscape.net> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>angle on the epistomological parts, how to design and code such stuff, but
>what would it look like, how would it be instantiated?

instantiate - American Heritage Dictionary

... .v. in·stan·ti·at·ed, in·stan·ti·at·ing, in·stan·ti·ates To
represent (an abstract concept) by a concrete or tangible example:
"Two apples ... both instantiate the single universal redness" (J.
Holloway).

new word, cool.

marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.
pop - 21 Oct 2004 19:13 GMT
> >The levers of mind-change not to mention money-making.  Bart Goddard
> ><goddardbe@netscape.net> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> new word, cool.

Heck, I had to look up epistomological [sp]! much better word than instantiate.
I had to think on this post (which is always good for my brain at my age) - I
hope I don't forget what I've learned!  :-)

Signature

pop is Mark
Old age ain't no place for sissies.
--

pop - 21 Oct 2004 19:15 GMT
> >The levers of mind-change not to mention money-making.  Bart Goddard
> ><goddardbe@netscape.net> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> new word, cool.

Heck, I had to look up epistomological [sp]! much better word than instantiate.
I had to think on this post (which is always good for my brain at my age) - I
hope I don't forget what I've learned!  :-)

Signature

pop is Mark
Old age ain't no place for sissies.
--

marXbig - 21 Oct 2004 20:34 GMT
>> >The levers of mind-change not to mention money-making.  Bart Goddard
>> ><goddardbe@netscape.net> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>I had to think on this post (which is always good for my brain at my age) - I
>hope I don't forget what I've learned!  :-)

To go back to the beginning of this thread...I'm impressed!

Hey Heck! How about instantiating what epistemology has to do wid
design and coding? will ya? I'm dumb as a brick, ya know?

marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.
Hec - 22 Oct 2004 04:39 GMT
snp
>>Old age ain't no place for sissies.
snp

>To go back to the beginning of this thread...I'm impressed!
>
>Hey Heck! How about instantiating what epistemology has to do wid
>design and coding? will ya? I'm dumb as a brick, ya know?

Epistemology is the study of the validity and veracity of knowledge.  It
includes how we know what we know, it seeks to answer whether our
spontaneous convictions are justified and whether and to what extent Man's
mind can contact reality, what is.  In addressing these issues when
studying epistemology, one develops an understanding of the laws and nature
of thinking because that's necessary in order to develop an understanding
of the truth-value of knowledge.

So, in thinking of a game of some sort that would particularly stimulate
men in our mid-forties and later, I was thinking it has to inform the
player, to focus him, to make him consider and, ideally, feel the novelty
of his own consciousness.  I imagined such a game's great payoff could be a
dynamically-generated solution or restatement of a player-supplied problem.

This means the program would have to be able to take in the nature of a
problem or a situation, manipulate its principles and output it with a
twist, that is, with a novel form or with new substance, novel methods,
mechnisms or procedures or even with a modified goal.

How ever to translate all this into source code?  What ever would such a
program *be*?  How can you code consciousness or awareness?  That's the
question I was implying and this is a very terse but concise articulation
of the basis for the question.  Now, for the start of the answer.

Knowledge is one of the most mysterious entities.  Think how you come to
know something.  You see a house.  It is on fire!  Immediately, you
recognize it for what it is.  You whirl around to see if any assistance is
coming, you whip out your cell to call.  All this is with an image of the
burning house in your mind.  How did that image get there?  Did the house
move into your mind?  No, it is still outside you.  Did you move into the
house, into the fire?  No, you are unharmed, unburned and still outside the
house.  What has taken place?  How do you know about this house?  You
collected information about it from your senses, yet you do not confuse
this with a movie of a burning house or with memories of other burning
houses.

How do you know what I've been describing?  In talking about an event or an
experience, we've generated an event and an experience.  This happened via
language and its words.  The former, the actual experience, requires its
own elucidation and that discussion of the role and validity of sense
experience and its interpretations, but the latter experience, with the
words, is where I want to lead you now.  The words are repositories of
knowledge.  They are constituted of ideas that reach into our minds to
construct conscious awareness and experience, and of a reality that
connects into Being, into the is of what is, inasmuch as they do indeed
relate to reality.

We know words can  indeed relate to reality since we agree to a great
extent on the effect and meaning of arbitrary words and collections of
words.  This is one of the great advances most of us make as we get older,
we gain great assurance as to the agreements about words we both share and
dispute.

We handle a number of fundamental ideas in our words in our languages and
build upon them.  I've defined a handful of categories of fundamental ideas
and compiled a few hundred words that seem to flesh out these categories.
I'm up to correlating each word of these categories with each other, both
strictly within categories and crossing over from one category into
another.

The correlations occur on a number of levels.  Take "high" and "arm" (the
body part).  When you put them together or near each other in a phrase or a
sentence, what do you effect, what can you possibly mean?  A raised arm, a
mighty arm, a mighty act, an act of strong leadership, or, to the contrary,
a presumption, an inappropriate taking.  By what algorithm can you generate
meaningful or potentially meaningful correlations?  What organization is
admitted by connections between words?  What correlations do people find
among words?  I've associated processes with each of the types of
organization that words can admit and with that, you can begin to
understand where programming can play a role.

So, what about a game that uses this?  I loved listening to the Yankees-Red
Sox game on the radio.  The two announcers on the radio in the New York
area, John Sterling and Charlie Steiner, made the games come alive for me,
really gave them life for me.  I didn't pay attention to a single baseball
game the whole season, but, in listening to these guys on the radio
experience the game, I was captured.  I loved it.  That's the sort of thing
I want to bring to a computer game.
marXbig - 22 Oct 2004 13:03 GMT
>snp
>>>Old age ain't no place for sissies.
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>experience the game, I was captured.  I loved it.  That's the sort of thing
>I want to bring to a computer game.

Well I guess I ask for that.

marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.
Heck - 24 Oct 2004 01:12 GMT
>Well I guess I ask for that.

Thanks for asking.  I got a lot out of rewriting it.  Got me thinking
productively again.  Is it at all interesting to you?
McGrandpa - 23 Oct 2004 02:40 GMT
>>> ain't no place for sissies.
> snp
[quoted text clipped - 86 lines]
> captured.  I loved it.  That's the sort of thing I want to bring to a
> computer game.

Try the original Tombraider?  Then, there is another one spoken of on
Paul Garginers site www.glidos.net that sounds really interesting, in
this way.  This game is not....normal.... and it's an old one.  He
mentions the name of it on his site.
McG. <who watched the Astros *almost* make it to the World Series>
NuQ - 23 Oct 2004 21:40 GMT
...
> McG. <who watched the Astros *almost* make it to the World Series>

That was such a heartbreaker.  They had come so far.  They fought against
all odds towards the last part of the season and rode that momentum into the
playoffs.  The last series came down to home field advantage in my opinion.
Too too bad.  I thought this was going to be our year.  Oh well, go Cards!
McGrandpa - 25 Oct 2004 01:45 GMT
> ...
>> McG. <who watched the Astros *almost* make it to the World Series>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> advantage in my opinion. Too too bad.  I thought this was going to be
> our year.  Oh well, go Cards!

Yeah, Go Cards!  <grumble mumble>   ;)
McG.
Heck - 24 Oct 2004 01:10 GMT
The levers of mind-change.  "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com>
wrote:
>Try the original Tombraider?  Then, there is another one spoken of on
>Paul Garginers site www.glidos.net that sounds really interesting, in
>this way.  This game is not....normal.... and it's an old one.  He
>mentions the name of it on his site.
>McG. <who watched the Astros *almost* make it to the World Series>

What is it about Tombraider that makes it smart?  Also, which other game?
From his descriptions, the only one that seems likely to me to be the one
you mean is Dreams To Reality.  Is that the one?
McGrandpa - 25 Oct 2004 01:46 GMT
> The levers of mind-change.  "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> game? From his descriptions, the only one that seems likely to me to
> be the one you mean is Dreams To Reality.  Is that the one?

YES.  far more than Tombraider.   Dreams To Reality.  I'd like to find
and play that one.
McG.
Diver - 19 Oct 2004 20:28 GMT
>>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
>><xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
>---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

57 and climbing
Servo - 19 Oct 2004 20:30 GMT
>>>I knew someone would ask that! 74 years.
>>
>>I'm impressed...53 years here.   :)
>
> 57 and climbing

41 here....interestingly enough I still get carded from time to
time...go figger.

Signature

Servo
"Long live the New Flesh!"
tservo100 at
ameritech dot net
Slow, fiery death to all spammers!!!

McGrandpa - 19 Oct 2004 23:06 GMT
>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
>>> <xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> 57 and climbing

C'mon c'mon keep em comin!  You guys are all makin me feel pretty good
today!  :o))
McG.
McGrandpa - 19 Oct 2004 23:05 GMT
>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
>> <xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> I'm impressed...53 years here.   :)

*REALLY*!?!?!  Damn, I'm impressed!  ;()
McG.

> marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >Total
> Privacy via Encryption =---
marXbig - 20 Oct 2004 11:16 GMT
>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
>>> <xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>*REALLY*!?!?!  Damn, I'm impressed!  ;()
>McG.

we went through this in agq3 a few years ago. It seems a lot of us
got started wid computers when they were dos managed and 2 megs was
plenty of storage. That was 1987.  My firstToshiba  laptop weighed 30
lbs! I used dos wordperfect and dos lotus spreadsheets.  I started
using the internet when there was nothing but text based bb's, mozilla
wasn't even an idea yet.
Makes you feel kind of silly when you realize it's mostly a bunch of
old men sitting around cursing each other.  :)

marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.
Dave - 20 Oct 2004 14:40 GMT
>From: marXbig
>Date: 10/20/2004 6:16 AM

>It seems a lot of us got started wid computers when they were
>dos managed and 2 megs was plenty of storage. That was 1987.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Makes you feel kind of silly when you realize it's mostly a bunch
>of old men sitting around cursing each other.  :)

Hahaha Yea!
Dos wordperfect and lotus spreadsheet was all you needed with
a 13" monochrome monitor :) hahahaha!!!

PS: Not laughing at you, just remembering something <BG>
McGrandpa - 23 Oct 2004 02:20 GMT
>> From: marXbig
>> Date: 10/20/2004 6:16 AM
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Dos wordperfect and lotus spreadsheet was all you needed with
> a 13" monochrome monitor :) hahahaha!!!

Hmpfh!  12".  TTL.  still got one under the entertainmant center
somewhere :)  GreenScreen!  sh.t, wonder if I still got a working vid
card it will work with?!
McG.

> PS: Not laughing at you, just remembering something <BG>
Inglo - 20 Oct 2004 17:19 GMT
On 10/20/2004 3:16 AM marXbig brightened our day with:

>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
>  

I got interested in computers after a field trip to the Lawrence Hall of
Science (part of the Lawrence-Berkeley Labs) back in 1979.  I just
remember how cool I thought it was that you could type something on a
keyboard and see it appear on the screen.  Within a year I had my first
TRS-80 from Radio Shack.  I then took two years of Computer Science at
Berkeley in the late 80's, then I essentially bailed on computers
(except for a little bit of use at a couple of jobs) until 1993.  And
that was when I first played Doom.  I often wonder how different my life
would be if I hadn't given up on EECS for a degree in History, and if
I'd gone to work for Intel after graduation rather than playing gigs for
my band in seedy San Francisco bars.  I would have missed out on a lot
of sex and drugs, that's for sure.

Signature

"Coming soon: Meatspace spyware, little men who live in your cupboards and watch what you eat and then try to sell you timeshares in Toronto."

Steve ¤»Inglo«¤
www.inglostadt.com

marXbig - 20 Oct 2004 19:18 GMT
>On 10/20/2004 3:16 AM marXbig brightened our day with:
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>keyboard and see it appear on the screen.  Within a year I had my first
>TRS-80 from Radio Shack.

That was my first rig, too.

> I then took two years of Computer Science at
>Berkeley in the late 80's, then I essentially bailed on computers
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>my band in seedy San Francisco bars.  I would have missed out on a lot
>of sex and drugs, that's for sure.

I spent my late teens and early 20's (67-73)  in bands playing beach
music and motown in seedy Southern bars. The sex and drugs were truly
wonderful. Matter of fact, I'm still partial to both.  :)  

Spent my youth f*cking off and traveling the world...now I'm having to
work when I'm old.   :(

Life's a bitch. When I was young I wanted everything and didn't have
any money. Now I'm old and got money but I don't want anyf*ckingthing.
:o

Oh well...

marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.
Diver - 20 Oct 2004 20:44 GMT
>>On 10/20/2004 3:16 AM marXbig brightened our day with:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
>---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Life is all opportunity, no matter what the age.  If you think your
old and done then your old and done.  I say its time for new drugs and
new sex and maybe a new game.  If you don't pounce on opportunity,
someone else will :)
marXbig - 20 Oct 2004 21:38 GMT
>>>On 10/20/2004 3:16 AM marXbig brightened our day with:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>>
>>marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.

>Life is all opportunity, no matter what the age.  

Sounds like something a young man would say.

>If you think your
>old and done then your old and done.  

When yer old, yer old. Ain't no thinkin about it. You know yer old
when you hit on a chick in a bar and she answers, "Why thank you, Mr.
Glover, I'll tell your son you were interested in me...you know we
went to high school together." (true story)

>I say its time for new drugs and
>new sex and maybe a new game.  

Now I'll go for all that.

>If you don't pounce on opportunity,
>someone else will :)

I been pouncing on stuff all my life. I'm a fortunate man. I have a
great wifey, a wonderful and accomplished son, (google Lucas Glover)
and means to get me to the end.

Sorry about the braggin.  :)    Life is a bitch tho. That's the way
it's supposed to be. No prob.  I ain't complaining, really.  

marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.
McGrandpa - 23 Oct 2004 02:19 GMT
>>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
>>>> <xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous.

Christmas 1984.  Tandy 1000a.  Feb 1985, 300 bps Infernal Modem.  er
inTernal ;)
Buncha Co-Co users helped me 'get online' with it :)  Even came over to
the house so we could knock our heads together and see what shook out.
Finally, it worked.  Been online one way or another ever since!   Hard
to believe that's almost 20 years now :o\
1989, got my first real peecee, 286-12, 2 megs etc etc etc.  Fun days.
The original Wing Commander game.  Took me a long time to play it on
that 286.  Took me a weekend to replay it on a 386 :)  Seems we were in
our late 30's when we were yakking up our ages last time man :)  Wonder
what John Carmack will look like "old" ?  ;)  An old kid?  Heh!
McG.

> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
> World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized
> Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Allan Martin - 19 Oct 2004 21:00 GMT
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
> <xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I knew someone would ask that! 74 years.

58 here.
McGrandpa - 19 Oct 2004 23:07 GMT
>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
>> <xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> 58 here.

Woot!  I bet Inglo feels really good now :)  Ha!
McG.
Inglo - 20 Oct 2004 09:04 GMT
On 10/19/2004 3:07 PM McGrandpa brightened our day with:

>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>  

I'm still way too old for this at 36.  But there a are a whole lot of
old dudes here.  I've been thinking about doing some community service,
maybe I should set a LAN party up at my local senior center.
Hey do you still want that copy of Deus Ex?  Send me your address to
steve«AT»inglostadt.com, and I'll mail it to you.  I should point out
that it's a real copy (not a burnt one, came with a software bundle) of
the game, but it's just the CD in a sleeve.  I don't want any money for
it, I'll just stick it in a CD envelope and drop it in the mail with
regular postage.

Signature

"Coming soon: Meatspace spyware, little men who live in your cupboards and watch what you eat and then try to sell you timeshares in Toronto."

Steve ¤»Inglo«¤
www.inglostadt.com

McGrandpa - 23 Oct 2004 02:26 GMT
> On 10/19/2004 3:07 PM McGrandpa brightened our day with:
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Steve ??Inglo??
> www.inglostadt.com

Thanks, yeah, that'd be cool!  Everyone I know that's played it really
liked the full game.  Email is on the way.
McG.
McGrandpa - 19 Oct 2004 23:04 GMT
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 at 12:04:45 in message
> <xjOcd.4140$YM4.989473@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Allan Martin
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> --
> David CL Francis

Ah, you make me feel like a kid again David!   I just turned 50 :)  Glad
you are enjoying your game, no matter how you like it!
McG.
pop - 18 Oct 2004 16:06 GMT
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 at 01:21:15 in message
> <fkGad.5864$l07.885@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, Cy Edmunds
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> strength of will to keep to a level of 'cheating' that maximises your
> enjoyment?
You can't be as old as I (67) and at my age I am impatient (I may not have much
time left) so quick-saving, dying, quick-loading, try something else becomes
tedious and I become frustrated on the parts of a level that require Olympic
acrobatics. So there you are - I play to enjoy not just to expend time and
energy... Hope everyone does the same no matter how they accomplish it.

Signature

pop is Mark
Old age ain't no place for sissies.
--

vox - 28 Nov 2004 00:14 GMT
excellent point - well said

> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 at 01:21:15 in message
> <fkGad.5864$l07.885@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, Cy Edmunds
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> strength of will to keep to a level of 'cheating' that maximises your
> enjoyment?
Windcat - 28 Nov 2004 16:33 GMT
>>As it is I can cheat just enough to retain my interest and enjoyment. I
>>have not got very far but I am having fun. Surely it does not take much
>>strength of will to keep to a level of 'cheating' that maximises your
>>enjoyment?

Ditto.  I usually play normally until my health is down to 10-15, (or
1!), and go God until I can find a med kit or health station then go
back to regular mode.
Fishy_stink_ho - 12 Oct 2004 04:06 GMT
> Yeah i finished it yesterday, GOD moded though the last levels, i was
> SO BORED, could not be bothered trying to beat the baddies over and
> over again, same attacks, same spawing behind you, stupid ambushes.

Of course you were bored!  All games are boring in God Mode.  Anyone see the
"Twilight Zone"  episode where the criminal dies and goes to a place where
he wins all his bets and can't lose, no matter what?  He was miserable.  He
asked how could he be unhappy in heaven.  They asked him "who told you this
was HEAVEN?"
Marshall - 12 Oct 2004 05:07 GMT
>> Yeah i finished it yesterday, GOD moded though the last levels, i was
>> SO BORED, could not be bothered trying to beat the baddies over and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> asked how could he be unhappy in heaven.  They asked him "who told you this
> was HEAVEN?"

Heh, reminds me of a pr0n movie I saw one time- guy dies, and goes to
a beautiful place where they just keep throwing nubile young women at
him nonstop, day after day after unending day, month after month, year
after year... until he finally screams out "I can't take this anymore! I can't
go on like this... I never thought being with all these willing, sex-starved
women in heaven could get so boring and repetetive!" And the beautiful
mistress of the place looks at him with an evil grin and says: "Who ever
said this was heaven? Now get back to work!"

May be a moral in there, somewhere... but at any rate, it was a hell of a
movie ;-)
   -Marshall
Shawk - 12 Oct 2004 08:23 GMT
>>> Yeah i finished it yesterday, GOD moded though the last levels, i was
>>> SO BORED, could not be bothered trying to beat the baddies over and
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> movie ;-)
>    -Marshall

It was called South of Eden...... my... er... mate... er.. told me about it
:-)
Marshall - 12 Oct 2004 04:53 GMT
> Yeah i finished it yesterday, GOD moded though the last levels, i was
> SO BORED, could not be bothered trying to beat the baddies over and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Oh well maybe Halflife 2 will be better ?

This is Usenet, do yourself a favor and learn why top posting doesn't work.

And now for the relevant bit. Try reading what you wrote several times.
Perhaps if you are lucky, the folly will dawn on you. Also, change your
handle, it is wholly inappropriate.
Marshall - 12 Oct 2004 05:20 GMT
> And now for the relevant bit. Try reading what you wrote several times. Perhaps if you are lucky, the folly will dawn on you.
> Also, change your handle, it is wholly inappropriate.

Speaking of changing handles, Marshall, I've been posting here
since a while before Doom3 launched, and I haven't seen you
up until the past few days. I've got first dibs on that moniker in
here, so if you would be so kind as to add the numeral '2' to the
end of your name, or some other convention so that the poor natives
can tell us apart, it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Unless you want folks thinking you're the one who posted the
rant against no quicksaves, or the story about the porn movie...
   -Marshall

PS: nice name, by the way!
Aki Peltola - 11 Oct 2004 14:18 GMT
> I just wanted to say that this is by FAR the coolest game I have ever
> played - I dont understand all the whining that goes on in here, the game
> itself *incited emotion* which is enough of a winner in itself. I have
> never
> been more scared in my life. Especially early on.

Well for me after the enchantment in the beginning of Doom3
it started to feel boring, mostly because of repeating enemies
and levels. It was completely impossible for me to play more
than 1 level per day. And now after FINALLY completing
Doom3, no way I'm gonna start playing that Hell all again
from  the beginning with higher difficulty. Must keep a
break for at least a year from this game before replaying.

End bosses were simply wimpy (on marine-level), only the
Guardian was a bit of challenge. Anyone agree how piece
of cake the final CyberDemon was? I didn't even lose any
health!

But truthfully, I think that those who completed doom3 in
a week (or less) and are delighted to start it all over again
from the beginning - Get some help, seriously! :-)
Peter - 11 Oct 2004 18:20 GMT
> I just wanted to say that this is by FAR the coolest game I have ever
> played - I dont understand all the whining that goes on in here, the game
> itself *incited emotion* which is enough of a winner in itself. I have never
> been more scared in my life. Especially early on.

Yes. Have not finished but my feelings are along the same line. This is by
far the best I've ever .... hmmmmm "played" would be the wrong word.

If you do not want to enter the game as a reality, than you better should
not purchase it at all.
Sure, the reality is bend here and there, but it's Carmack's world so you
gotta bend to the rules or give it a miss.

If you're playing every game just to run through as fast as you can, don't
try it.
If you're playing every game just to hop around without any sense of what it
means to be killed yourself, don't try it.
This is not the frogger or donkey kong.

This is id Software's vision of a nightmare.

Take it as it was meant to be:
An invitation to live through that nightmare.

The main point IMHO is:
You should try to get killed not even once.
That of course means that you can not run into every situation giving a f***
for what comes as you can learn and try again.
That includes also not to cheat - accept the world the developers have
created (that, as such, would save newsgroups tons of complaints with every
game - find YOUR game and ACCEPT the "rules" or keep on searching).

If accepting DOOM's reality as it was developed is not what you're looking
for, then DOOM3 is the completely wrong game for you.
 
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