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Game Forum / Action Games / Doom / October 2004New CPU = disapointment.
I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. I eagerly changed CPU's and ran the Doom 3 time demo. 600Mhz ( about 20% faster ) and double the cache, and what do I get. 1 extra frame per second. Now my graghics card is a GeForce FX 5900XT, no 6800, but no slouch either. And 512 meg of dual channel DDR400 RAM should be enough. I've posed this point before, and now I believe I have proven it. For Doom 3, if you have an OK system the only thing that is going to get you good FPS is a kick arse graphics card. Oh well, I needed a CPU upgrade anyway. Andy... >I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand >new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Oh well, I needed a CPU upgrade anyway. 2.6 to 3.2, you "needed" an upgrade? Should've got a GT... js Didnt cost me much to upgrade the CPU. Andy. > >I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand > >new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > js > I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand > new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. My CPU upgrade plan has always been to never upgrade unless I got double the performance- I changed from a cyrix 686 200Mhz to PII -400Mhz to a 1.3Ghz Athlon and from that to a 3GHZ Athlon XP, thus ensuring I always got at least double the performance from an upgrade. A 5GHZ (PR) or faster Athlon 64 should give me double the speed of my Athlon XP, so that'll be my next upgrade. Could be a while for those to appear, should give 64bit Windows enough time to sort out the bugs. Could be interesting in future as dual core CPUs come along, I wonder how I'll decide to upgrade then? >I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand > new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Andy... That proved you didn't do enough testing on your computer. Generally there are TWO factors that limit your frame rate 1. CPU 2. Graphics card A simple analogy that helps to understand this is think of data transfer as water and the CPU and graphics card as two different size (diameter) pipes connected together. The rate of flow of water through the pipes is always limited by the smaller pipe. On 10/12/2004 12:56 AM Angellus brightened our day with: >I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand >new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I bet Doom 3 runs a lot faster now at 640x480 then it did before. But that was the only improvement you should have expected.  Signature"Coming soon: Meatspace spyware, little men who live in your cupboards and watch what you eat and then try to sell you timeshares in Toronto." Steve ¤»Inglo«¤ www.inglostadt.com > I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand > new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Andy... The 5900XT is not as powerful as you might think. When a 5700 Ultra DDR3 board can cap it, then you can tell it's memory bandwidth isn't nearly as high as (for example) the 5950. Overall you would have benefited much more from a 6800GT or even the new 6600 boards (if you can find one). The P4 is known for diminishing returns at this point (unless you go for the EE model). > I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand > new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Now my graghics card is a GeForce FX 5900XT, no 6800, but no slouch either. > And 512 meg of dual channel DDR400 RAM should be enough. I have a base 128 MB 6800 on Athlon 64 3200+ (2 GHz), and even though that is 60 fps @ 1280x1024 native resolution of my LCD display (high quality, no AA or AF), that is video card limited, not CPU limited. If I bump my CPU and RAM 10% (2.2 GHz and 440 MHz), there is almost no gain in fps (maybe 0.5 fps maximum timedemo). Before that I tried a 256 MB FX 5700LE (store was out of 5900's) which required a stronger power supply and initially was only 15 fps @ 800x600. But something I did bumped that up to 25 fps (maybe driver update), although, it still bogged down to 15 fps at times. Fortunately eVGA has a step-up program, so I was able to trade that for the 6800 (which came with Far Cry at that time) for the price difference. :>I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand :>new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] :> :>Andy... You should have done better than that. I replaced a P4-3.06GHZ 512K cache @ 533MHZ FSB with a P4-3.20GHZ 1MB cache @ 800MHZ FSB on a system with a 128mb Radeon 9800 Pro and saw approximately a 20% increase in performance in doom3 timedemos run at the same settings before and after the swap. BTW, is your 3.20 a Prescott core or a Northwood? If it's a Prescott and your motherboard doesn't fully support it the processor will only run a 2.80GHZ. If you check out some of the motherboard manufacturers forums you will see a lot of pissed off people about that. Some older motherboards will support the Prescott with a BIOS upgrade but it appears the majority won't. Quite a few P4 motherboards more than about 6-9 months old have this issue with the Prescott processors. me/2 PS: I was able to verify the 2.80GHZ by first installing my 3.20e Prescott in an AOpen board about 9 months old before I installed it in my fairly recent MSI board in my "game" system. Yes it is a prescott CPU and my board does suport it. Andy. > :>I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand > :>new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Prescott in an AOpen board about 9 months old before I installed it in > my fairly recent MSI board in my "game" system. >I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand >new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Andy... It looks like you went with the cpu that I use. A P4e 3.2 Prescott. I highly recommend this cpu because it is cheap and oc's by 10% or better easily. But as I said in an earlier post (see New Rig Specs and Performance) the performance leap came with the 6800 GT. I was using a 128meg 5900 and was getting only 45 fps or so on 640x480 medium settings. I have since refined my setup and am now getting 68 fps on 1280x1024 at High with 2x AA. This is perfect for d3. As Inglo said, the cpu will really help at the low res end but higher res are dependent on the card. By the way, my 3dmark03 score is 12250. :) and it measures cpu as well as card performance so you would probably see a good increase in that benchmark with your cpu upgrade. And you're right, a kickass graphics card would do you more good than anything at this point. marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous. |I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand |new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] | |Andy... Sorry for the disappointment but thanks for the good additional data point. > I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand > new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. You should have bought a new motherboard and an Athlon 64 instead. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7 A $150 Athlon 64 3000+ socket 754 beats an $815 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz EE in Doom 3. > I eagerly changed CPU's and ran the Doom 3 time demo. 600Mhz ( about 20% > faster ) and double the cache, and what do I get. 1 extra frame per second. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Andy... >> I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand >> new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >A $150 Athlon 64 3000+ socket 754 beats an $815 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz EE >in Doom 3. http://www.newegg.com/app/searchProductResult.asp?Submit=Go&Range=1&DEPA=0&bop=a nd&description=Pentium+P4&InnerCata=343 Intel Pentium 4/ 3.2E GHz 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail (limit 5 per customer) Specification Model: Intel Pentium 4 w/ Hyper Threading Technology Core: Prescott Operating Frequency: 3.2GHz FSB: 800MHz Cache: L1/12K+16K; L2/1MB Voltage: 1.25V-1.525V Process: 0.09Micron Socket: Socket 478 Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3 Warranty: 3-year MFG Packaging: Retail(with Heatsink and Fan) $223.00 Cheaper if you try. I got mine for 198.00. marXbig...who knows just enough to be dangerous. >I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand >new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Andy... Doom 3 blows... After you play it through once it's like that annoying cliche "been there, done that, bought the f.cking t-shirt"... If you upgrade your hardware just to play that game then you have rocks in your head. But thankfully there are a lot of good games out there that will run great on a 3.2 P4/ 5900... > Doom 3 blows... After you play it through once it's like that annoying > cliche "been there, done that, bought the f.cking t-shirt"... I thought the same thing, although its abundance of dark rooms did make me feel like Ray Charles on combat duty, so that's a bit of a twist. You definitely want the fastest GPU for it though, to do that blackness justice. :-P >> I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a >> Brand [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > But thankfully there are a lot of good games out there that will run > great on a 3.2 P4/ 5900... Yep, and coming out Very Soon Now (got fingers crossed) is Half-Life2. WHICH (in the Collectors Edition I ordered) comes on DVD with Counter Strike:Source and Half-Life:Source. Means these two are ported to HL2 engine :) I'm having to stick with the hardware toys I have for a good while now. I got a Jeep Grand Cherokee last Saturday to pay for now :o| [BUT, it's FUN!] McG. > Yep, and coming out Very Soon Now (got fingers crossed) is Half-Life2. > WHICH (in the Collectors Edition I ordered) comes on DVD with Counter > Strike:Source and Half-Life:Source. Means these two are ported to HL2 > engine :) In addition to those titles, I'm looking forward to "Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines" which apparently is built on the Source engine as well. >> Yep, and coming out Very Soon Now (got fingers crossed) is >> Half-Life2. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > engine as > well. Yes! I'd just found out about that one. It's release has to wait for the release of HL2, and I hear Masquerade-Bloodlines has been ready for a little while now. It appears there will be no immediate shortage of games to play on the SOURCE engine! :o) McG. >>> Yep, and coming out Very Soon Now (got fingers crossed) is >>> Half-Life2. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >games to play on the SOURCE engine! :o) >McG. It seems the Doom 3 engine is a dead end however... BTW, here's a hint: don't make people have to listen to hours of boring logs to get to secret lockers... That gets tired really fast... >>>> Yep, and coming out Very Soon Now (got fingers crossed) is >>>> Half-Life2. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > BTW, here's a hint: don't make people have to listen to hours of > boring logs to get to secret lockers... That gets tired really fast... Actually, there a a number of things in the game that tend to work against the game. Like you're in a firefight and end up having to read a log. Crap. So far, Ive found I can 'clean out' an area (not level, just an immediate area) and then search through whats left for PDA's, disks, ammo/armor etc. Over and over and over and over and.... so I see what lots of folks dislike about the repetitiveness in the game. Same ol same ol all the time. So it's a game that's at one-thru. It does get monotonous. Guess that's why I relegated it to playing only on a weekend night. Plus, it takes a long time to get all loaded up and going IN a level. I am still enjoying it some. But if things don't change soon, I'm gonna tire of it and just whiz thru it. I'm in Delta labs now. Just got there. McG. >It seems the Doom 3 engine is a dead end however... > >BTW, here's a hint: don't make people have to listen to hours of >boring logs to get to secret lockers... That gets tired really fast... The problem you described would be a problem with the game, not the engine. It's fairly easy to plan (or modify) the game to include a written version of the logs or any other message the player sees. This will allow the player to quickly skim over logs to see what is being missed. System Shock 2 does this, as does Deus Ex. On 10/15/2004 5:31 PM McGrandpa brightened our day with: >Yep, and coming out Very Soon Now (got fingers crossed) is Half-Life2. >WHICH (in the Collectors Edition I ordered) comes on DVD with Counter [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I just ordered a new monitor, only a 17" Flat Panel (I know you've got two inches on that), but I'm thinking it's going to look a little nicer than my 7 year old Dell CRT. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-006-052&depa=1 I was looking hard for a monitor that had a DVI-D cable included. This one has it plus lots of excellent reviews. Every one at newegg is 5 stars. Next week I'll drop down some pre-order cash at EBGames for HL2. I already have Steam and a bitched version of CS:Source. I never really liked CS though. Still have to finish Far Cry before HL2 gets here. Signature"Coming soon: Meatspace spyware, little men who live in your cupboards and watch what you eat and then try to sell you timeshares in Toronto." Steve ¤»Inglo«¤ www.inglostadt.com > On 10/15/2004 5:31 PM McGrandpa brightened our day with: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > one has it plus lots of excellent reviews. Every one at newegg is 5 > stars. That is a very nice monitor and a good price too. I note a few nice things about it that I would look for as well; built in power supply (no chunk sitting on the desk somewhere like I have with the Envision 19"), the height is adjustable on your Sony (but not on either of the NEC's or the Envision I bought), DVI and VGA inputs, comes with both cables. The Sony looks like it's built nice and sturdy too, no wiggling or shaking. I see a surprising number of LCD monitors that seem....cheaply made? They're lacking a 'solid' physical feel to them. I didn't like the majority of the monitors I've had my hands on. I flat walked away from some highly rated Samsung, LiquidVision, and newer NEC TFT monitors just because they looked about to fall apart sitting on display at Circuit City. I was really surprised at that turn, honestly. This Envision is a new brand to me. But those circumstances forced me to have a good look at it, and I was pleased with what I saw. So I dropped my $599 on it. That was 8 months ago now. After reading so much about these TFT displays I am also counting myself very fortunate that the three I've bought have no dead pixels. I was also pleasantly surprised at the positive difference that using the Envision with DVI port and cable made. Its response time is 24ms, but for whatever reason, going from the analog VGA to the DVI port made a big difference in 'ghosting' shadows in the games and movies. Though it's still there, it's barely noticeable when using DVI. The NEC's both are 16ms and I don't see any ghosting in them at all. Looks like you got all the good stuff in one package Steve. Good job! And congrats on that addition! > Next week I'll drop down some pre-order cash at EBGames for HL2. I > already have Steam and a bitched version of CS:Source. I never really > liked CS though. Still have to finish Far Cry before HL2 gets here. Relax and don't worry about 'finishing' a game. Enjoy it! I still fire up FC for a little target practice with some excellent weaponry! I bought CS, and I hated being absolutely stuck on rails through the training level. I never got through it, gave the game to my son (who loved it). But HL and Opposing Force and Ground Zero I still have, and still play, still enjoy. I am really looking forward to seeing HL all souped up for SOURCE! :) I have the thought that HL2 will be front-and-center for some while to come though, as soon as we all get it! The other games will be patiently waiting for a while. McG. > -- > "Coming soon: Meatspace spyware, little men who live in your cupboards > and > watch what you eat and then try to sell you timeshares in Toronto." > Steve ??Inglo?? > www.inglostadt.com >> On 10/15/2004 5:31 PM McGrandpa brightened our day with: >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >Looks like you got all the good stuff in one package Steve. Good job! >And congrats on that addition! Hey Gramps, less is more... like I was going to waste brain cells reading all that meaningless text... >> Next week I'll drop down some pre-order cash at EBGames for HL2. I >> already have Steam and a bitched version of CS:Source. I never really [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Steve ¤»Inglo«¤ >> www.inglostadt.com >> "Inglo" <ioo@??.???> wrote in message snip >> Looks like you got all the good stuff in one package Steve. Good >> job! >> And congrats on that addition! > > Hey Gramps, less is more... like I was going to waste brain cells > reading all that meaningless text... snip Are you Inglo? McG. >On 10/15/2004 5:31 PM McGrandpa brightened our day with: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >two inches on that), but I'm thinking it's going to look a little nicer >than my 7 year old Dell CRT. How about get a 19" CRT and a classy escort for the same price?? (What your wife don't know won't hurt her... ;) >http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-006-052&depa=1 >I was looking hard for a monitor that had a DVI-D cable included. This >one has it plus lots of excellent reviews. Every one at newegg is 5 stars. >Next week I'll drop down some pre-order cash at EBGames for HL2. I >already have Steam and a bitched version of CS:Source. I never really >liked CS though. Still have to finish Far Cry before HL2 gets here. You should have gotten a new motherboard and upgraded to an Athlon 64. A $150 Athlon 64 3000+ socket 754 beats an $815 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz EE in Doom 3. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7 > >> I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a > >> Brand [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > it's FUN!] > McG. >>>> I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands >>>> on a Brand [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7 > "JK" <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote in message news:417AEE61.39246975@netscape.net > You should have gotten a new motherboard and upgraded to an Athlon 64. > A $150 Athlon 64 3000+ socket 754 beats an $815 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz EE > in Doom 3. > > http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7 You mean HE should've? I'll admit, the Athlon system would be a LOT less costly than the Jeep :) McG. apart from GPU, best thing in your case would have been a 3 gig ram-drive, running XP from ram and d3 - suddenly even the latest gpu becomes the weakest link of all... mind you, they cost a fair wack :( > I sold my 2.6Ghz, 512k L2 cache, Pentium 4 CPU, and got my hands on a Brand > new Pentium 4, 3.2Ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Andy... |
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