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Bowey does 1.10

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Frank - 23 Jul 2003 14:57 GMT
Mickey already posted tales of Mighty-Jew and Bowey, but I'd like to add a
bit more from the bowazons point of perspective. Skillwise mostly and
itemwise.
I started out deciding I would try all bow skills and just do the same as
usual in the passsive tree. But no real plan yet. So I stepped into..

Normal mode.
Not much changed in normal I must say, except some higher life of critters
and a tad more speed for some of them. I had to do with whatever I could
find or make. No twinking. Because more rares seemed to drop everything went
very smoothly. The first death (actually many more than 1) came against
Duriel. As I posted before, this boss seems a bit too big for certain builds
at that moment in their life. My druid and necro were able to kill him at
level 20, but Bowey died I think 8 times with Duriel still at 70% life.
Ouch. So I leved to 24 and tried again, now armed with immo arrow and a
decoy. Only one death this time, but I passed.

Act3 was easy after that, so was the first part of act4. at that time I was
using some rare breastplate, a 12-34 damage rare bow (an imbue, really!) and
some more rare stuff. Nothing great. In came wondering a Jewish barbarian at
that time. So from normal Diablo on we teamed up, preparing for the things
to come.

Running around sofar with no leech whatsoever. But with the low damage I was
dealing, who cared. Still using mainly the fire and cold arrow tree.
Plunking away at one critter at the time. Diablo had no chance. Act5 seemed
pretty easy also, although we did take our time to level a bit and do some
mf runs. Ancients down, Baal down. At that time we were 40-ish I think. The
low damage bow was beginning to become a problem. All kinds of pally stuff
dropping but no bows. Aargh.
Immolation arrow proved to be worthwile. Decided pumping that and stick some
point in guided. 1 point in freezing arrow.

Nightmare.
Damn this suddenly seemed a lot harder than 1.09. Except a few types that
didn't seem to have changed much since 1.09. Probaly they are 1.09 dupes.
All I could do is freeze monsters so Mickey could chop them up. My damage
output was ridiculous. The turning point came when Andy dropped a Kuko. I
couldn't have wished for something better. My favorite bow.
Hell, I could also kill again. Great. After that nightmare mode was very
doable. Unique groups, especially the types that have high life to begin
with, are horrible for me. My only hope there is that the valk can hold
them. The valk seemed indestructable at times. But then sometimes she would
just vanish. Usually against elemental damage. But it seems a  lot better
than in1.09. But the AI is still... well...

The end of nightmare mode was reached in out late 60's. The combination
freeze/cook still worked well. MIckey chopping things up in the mean time,
but he wasn't in the way too much :) There were still occasional deaths
every now and then. Got mugged at the way down in the Crystaline passage (in
all mode btw), and ran into some extra crispy unique group every now and
then. Usually it was carelessness or being surprised by the strength of some
of the 1.10 groups.
At this moment I was outkilling Mickey, but that changed when we started....

Hell mode.
We started that at about level 70. Everything seemd 10 times as difficult
suddenly.Like an entire difficulty mode was missing. I began to doubt if
immo would still be any use. Freezing arrow still worked fine. I had been
loading up on cold damage charms and could still freeze everyone for a few
seconds. My life was horribly low at only 500 at than time. damage about 200
average. However Griswold came to the rescue and dropped an Eaglehorn.
Unfortunately it still seemed to do too little damage to kill at any speed.
My gear was still the same as drom normal mode. I did find a viper magi in
the worldstone eep in NM but it was ethereal, so my merc was wearing it.
Luckily Mickey got another (normal) one for me during one of his mf runs.
But as we got used to the increased difficuly we adapted and improved our
play. I don't think we ever died in hell mode anymore. The difficuly mostly
lies in the high life of monsters. I could solo anywhere, but some unique
groups I can't beat. Think Vampires / zombies / spiders. Too much life.
But play was very doable, depite the fact I still had no life leech and only
4% mana leech from a rare circlet. Yes you can basically play without leech
as a bowazon, not using MS of course. The single arrow attack strategy still
worked. My to hit was horrible, but using FA, GA and Immo, who cares? That
is the nice thing about these skills.

After upgrading to a Buriza and putting on Andariels visage, Laying of
hands, better rare gloves and boots, we finished hell. At times I used MS a
bit but it just seems to bad a skill now. Frequent use of the decoy is very
helpful, either to draw out monsters or to occupy them. Some wil destroy the
decoy in one swipe, however Hell Ancients did not seem able to hit her.
Strange but true. Ball was beaten at level 84, 700 life, 200 mana, damage
400-1900 with mian used skills GA, FA and immo. Still some attribute points
and skill points in te bank.

Conclusion.
So is hell unplayable in solo mode? Not really. Any normal monsters I can
take on, also in act 5. The problem lies in unique groups and champions.
Some of them take just way too long to kill. No skill needed, just a very
muscular index finger to keep ploinking away. That is disappointing. However
I think that any team of 2 or more, will have not much problems dealing with
these groups. And actually then it is more fun than 1.09. The fights
resembled very much the fights my hunter druid had in 1.09 hell. Fighting
for your life all the time and be very satisfied when you brought them down
eventually. If getting to Mephisto in hell takes me 30 minutes and every
minion blood lord takes 2 minutes, Bremm takes 20 seconds, and Meph decides
to give up in under 15, I think there is something screwy here.
Same with the infector of Souls being much more of a pain then Diablo
himself.

Drops seem pretty good. Bosses continue to produce colorful drops, even with
no or little mf on you. We found many, many of the new unique elites, even
an Aldur's armor. One of the items I have never found in 1.09. Still I was
lucky getting the unique bows. I haven't seen any rare or magical bow drop
that was even remotely close to the uniques. But all in all, the drop rate
of items is pretty nice.

But 1.10 does screw up special builds and hardcore, I would suspect.it will
be quite some time for  a hardcore character to beat Baal hell mode. There
are just too many instant death situations along the way. Trap assassins wil
also have a difficult time I suspect. But we will see. All in all I think
1.10 might be an improvement over 1.09. If bugs are fixed and hacked items
removed of course.

Well now I will try my level 24 wolf and level 20 necro. Mickey is going to
try a pally , I think. So I will see with which of these two he is going to
tag along. My wolf Therewolf I suspect. Anyone who saw Young Frankenstein
knows where that name came from :)

greetings
Frank
Mickey - 23 Jul 2003 16:52 GMT
> Drops seem pretty good. Bosses continue to produce colorful drops, even with
> no or little mf on you. We found many, many of the new unique elites, even
> an Aldur's armor.

I just got another one of the new ones, a unique mighty scepter. Looks
fairly decent, and actually does over 200 max damage.

And yes, I will play a Paladin. He is level 11 already... Give me a day, and
I will catch up to you :)

Mickey
Lewis W Beard - 24 Jul 2003 23:33 GMT
Frank,

Thanks for the report. I'm reading every hell-play account I can find
with much interest.

I am curious about your skill points. In retrospect, did you place any
you regret? Did you actually boost the "lesser" skills at lower levels
as Blizzard intended, and then boost the bigger ones later, or did you
bank them, or what?

I'm just curious whether or not you found your skill point
expenditures actually followed the way Blizzard seems to want to
encourage.

Also, I notice you complained once about Immolation arrow, but I can't
tell from your post whether it was effective in hell. Mickey mentioned
in his post that you were frying things pretty often at times when he
needed it. Could you comment on the effectiveness of your main attacks
and to what degree they were developed?

Thanks a million!

Mickey,

I want to see you play a Necromancer through Hell. I know you are
doing a Paladin next, but I'm looking forward to you doing a
Necromancer. I'm a slow slow player with little free time so I'm
*slowly* working on my own Necromancer, a Raise-Skeleton Necromancer,
but I am only just in Nightmare now, so you guys will probably play
through Hell with 3 pairs of characters before I can finish Nightmare
(especially with me going to Minnesota for the Twin Cities Unicycle
Club's hosting of the North American Unicycle Championships and
Convention).

Anywway, thanks to both of you for the reports!

Lewis

Lewis
Frank - 25 Jul 2003 00:14 GMT
> Frank,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> as Blizzard intended, and then boost the bigger ones later, or did you
> bank them, or what?

Never really bank them early on. There are so many places to put points at
that stage, that you can't really pump fire arrow for instance. Think about
all the passives where you have to drop something. I haven't really used (
or had any benefit from) the synergies. Immo got maxed eventually and I did
drop about 2 or 3 extra points in fire arrow later on to boost immo's 3
second fire damage. But it only boils down to 7 more fire damage per second
for each skill point. Just way too little to bother with so I quickly
abandoned that experiment. Also boosting cold length can better be achieved
by loading up on cold charms (which I did) then by using the synergies. That
is really a waste of points.

> I'm just curious whether or not you found your skill point
> expenditures actually followed the way Blizzard seems to want to
> encourage.

Well... I did drop an extra point or 2 in decoy. Not so much to boost the
valkyrie, but more to get some more duration and durability out of the
decoy. If I can twink my character with +skill items, I probably wouldn't do
that anymore though.
Off the top of my head I have somthing like:
inner sight 1
slow missiles 1
decoy 3
valk 5
dodge 4
avoid 3
evade 1 (due to evade lock)
critcal strike 7
penenetrate 2 (dropped one too many accidentallty)
pierce 5

fire arrow 3
exploding 2
immo 20
cold arrow 1
ice arrow 1
frezzing arrow 1
magic arrow 1
multi 4
guided 20
no strafe

This is at level 84. I have 4 or 5 points still available. but I am also the
lucky owner of +4 all skills on top of the above.

Regrets? Well fire arrow only. And decoy I would probably leave alone when I
know that +skill items will take care of a sufficient level.  Also multi
just doesn't cut it in hell mode. However it is very nice to do nightmare
Baal runs.

My to hit is horrible, but since I use guided, FA and immo mainly that is
ok, since they always hit. Strength is at 110 to use the Buriza, vitality at
about 140 (700 life) no energy, the rest in dex. I was surprised to survive
with this low life amount, but I am quite good at not getting hit. I need to
be since I had no life leech until level 83!! and only 4% mana leech. Still
that did not seem to be a problem using the skills I used.

> Also, I notice you complained once about Immolation arrow, but I can't
> tell from your post whether it was effective in hell. Mickey mentioned
> in his post that you were frying things pretty often at times when he
> needed it. Could you comment on the effectiveness of your main attacks
> and to what degree they were developed?

Immo arrow in hell is still usable against certain monsters. For instance
those big furry iceman in the caves in act 5. They take long to melee, but
they seem very vulnerable to fire.Same for Harpies, Raiders and as a last
resort to PI's (expect a long cooking program). If they also happen to be
fire immune it is a problem however. There are many unique groups I really
can't take on alone, unless I would be willing to spend 30 minutes killing
one boss group. No thanks.
But I usually switch quickly between freezing them, cooking them in the mean
time and using guided to pick individuals off. But you need time, so a good
valk is necssary, and prefereably a melee merc or other players to tank for
you :) I stuill use the act 1 merc but I doubt that is the right choise.
Holy freeze merc probably is more effective.

> Thanks a million!
Mickey - 25 Jul 2003 00:21 GMT
> > Frank,
> >
> Immo arrow in hell is still usable against certain monsters. For instance
> those big furry iceman in the caves in act 5.

I was amazed at how fast you could drop them, given how long it took me to
take down a group of 5 or 6.

Mickey
Stephen van Ham - 25 Jul 2003 01:51 GMT
>Never really bank them early on. There are so many places to put points at
>that stage, that you can't really pump fire arrow for instance. Think about
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>by loading up on cold charms (which I did) then by using the synergies. That
>is really a waste of points.

I'm also starting reaching the conclusion that the synergies aren't
worthwhile in many cases.   Indeed it's all very well to pump up a
synergy to boost your damage when using one particular skill, but when
you need to switch to another, you really feel the lack of points
invested in more general utility skills or alternative damage types.
I've gotten to the point with my paladin that I'm regretting putting
more than just a handful of points in the Holy Freeze boosting
synergies, as now he'd much rather have those extra points to have
helped him get his Zeal and Holy Shield maxed out, and his Fanaticism
aura pumped up when facing the numerous cold immunes.   As it is now
he's something like this:

Zeal 16
Holy Freeze 20
Resist Cold 12
Holy Shield 12
Fanaticism 1

When at times I wish it was:

Zeal 20
Holy Freeze 20
Resist Cold 1
Holy Shield 12
Fanaticism 8

***

The fact that more rounded builds (like your zon) can still work okay
is encouraging to all those who have a ton of 1.09 characters that
they want to make the transition into 1.10.
Mickey - 25 Jul 2003 02:11 GMT
> >Never really bank them early on. There are so many places to put points at
> >that stage, that you can't really pump fire arrow for instance. Think about
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> is encouraging to all those who have a ton of 1.09 characters that
> they want to make the transition into 1.10.

Actually, I think only ONE of my level 99 characters would have any problem
playing 1.10. My first fire sorc will, but that is because she was a fire
sorc and ONLY a fire sorc. The 4 necro's would walk through hell mode. The
Gorillazon would walk though, in her battle gear. The Mavinazon would walk
through, if I take back the 1.08 bow and hat from Jess. The LF zon couldn't
survive on MF alone as she has in 1.09, but then again, she has 31 skills
and 140 stats in the bank... no problem there. The Speedball zon would blow
everything in her path away. The 2 barbs also would have no problem. One has
14k DEF, 12k Damage, and 10k life (no problem there either) and the other is
a frenzy barb, which I am now playing with MUCH less in the way of gear than
he has. The assassin would also survive, and probably do better, as she is
both a melee char and a trapper. My Paladin would make it, although it would
be a bit of a struggle for him (not enough life). And that would leave
The_Supernova.... She will simply destroy 1.10. 1.10 will do nothing to her
other than solidify her reputation as a wrecking ball with breasts. If I go
back to full battle gear, she has a level 35 nova and LM (along with a level
25 SF), she has a level 27 orb with a level 16 mastery, and a level 23
firewall with a 15 mastery. She has maxed resists, 1310 life and 1600 mana
hung on a 65% energy shield. 1.10 will barely slow her down. Then again, she
has the best of all my items, as was planned out to every degree.

Mickey
Stephen van Ham - 25 Jul 2003 02:53 GMT
>Actually, I think only ONE of my level 99 characters would have any problem
>playing 1.10. My first fire sorc will, but that is because she was a fire
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>hung on a 65% energy shield. 1.10 will barely slow her down. Then again, she
>has the best of all my items, as was planned out to every degree.

I think most of mine would be okay, and there's a couple I wish I
still had around to try out, in particular my old defiance pally and
my old Orb/Nova sorceress (I have to agree that this is one of the
most uber builds in many scenarios), and the old Fend/Fury zon.    The
two current ones I'm most concerned about *not* making the transition
okay are the Ribcracker paladin and my Phoenix Strike/DS assassin.
While the Ribcracker guy will get a damage boost thanks to the new
Holy Freeze, he might struggle finding enough defense to run around
shieldless, and will therefore get beaten into the ground.   He might
have to switch him over to a Defiance merc.   The assassin I'm
concerned about mostly based on her fraility in 1.09, which won't be
helped by the new 1.10 monsters.   As it was, she found herself
running in trapper mode a lot of the time in Hell.   Still, she was
semi-retired anyway, so not a biggie.

Otherwise -

Bone Spear/Revives necro - check, should be okay.
Bowazons - check.   They both have decent passives, decent valks and a
maxed bow skill each for killing PIs.   They're certainly a lot better
off than a some of my older bowies would have been.   Actually, I
can't recall offhand whether either of these bothered maxing Guided
Arrow.   I remember the three or four before them did, but those are
out of the picture anyway.
Zeal pallies - check, assuming Blizz refix the Zeal bug.   Actually, I
miss the old avenger.
Fend only javazon - check.   Monster passives, maxed block, maxed
Fend, lots of elemental damage.   Potential question mark here based
on how well they get Fend working in 1.10.
Meteor/Orb sorceress - check.
Various barbs - WW, throw, frenzy - actually, I haven't seen the 1.10
WW in action, that's the only concern at this stage.
Charged Bolt/Inferno sorceress - okay, this one probably won't be so
crash hot.
Hydra/Firewall/Orb sorceress - hmmm, might need to check the 1.10
synergies for this one.
Fury wolf - fine, in theory, although he wasn't exactly optimised for
killing PI's in Hell in 1.09.   I'd probably need to retrofit his
rogue merc.
Bear - gads, I don't even remember where this one ended up.
Somewhere early Hell, I think.   How quickly I forget their status
once I've been off bnet a few weeks.   He might benefit from some time
back in Nightmare killing a few bosses.

Plus I have a set parked at the beginning of nightmare difficulty to
toy around with if I decide it's worth the time (okay, so I also got
bored playing them and decided beginning of nightmare was a good
stopping point, seeing as how nightmare difficulty used to bore me to
tears anyway).   But heck, if the patch release doesn't happen for
months yet I might have moved on to something new by then anyway.   At
this stage intending to go back to the realms other than to refresh
characters before 1.10 release, so if it takes too long, I might end
up handing them over to Jane for use as more AGD mule space.

If I end up back on realms, though, most of the early time will be
spent tinkering with a team Carl pally and maybe a new zon and barb or
two (gotta try the new Lightning strike and maybe a Bash barb).
Hell, maybe it's time I tried a skellymancer for real.
Mickey - 25 Jul 2003 00:15 GMT
> Frank,
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Anywway, thanks to both of you for the reports!

I am saving the necro for the full patch release. This is the one char I
know I can beat hell Baal with in a clean environment without having to
spend too much time MFing.

Mickey
 
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