Game Forum / Role Playing Games / Diablo / November 2007
Question re: the NM FE bug
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ArtDent - 14 Nov 2007 18:30 GMT I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally. I am in nm. I have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire Enchanted, but my life ball only goes down about 10-20 percent. Is this because I am maxed on my resistances, or, is this because I have items that give me 'damage reduced by x' as well as items that give me 'damage reduced by x%' (I also have 'magic damage reduced by x')? Or have I just been 'lucky' so far and the next one could take me with him when he goes?
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Mark P. Nelson - 14 Nov 2007 21:42 GMT > I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally. I am in nm. I > have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > have I just been 'lucky' so far and the next one could take me with > him when he goes? I don't know for sure, but in my observations I get away with it often enough to lose my respect for the bug and then it kills me--BLAMMO!
Sometimes you don't see the FE notice until you've already started to zeal, and then it's already too late; you just have to hope either that you don't kill him before you can put some distance between you or that this will be one of the lucky times.
Mark.
 Signature While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short of deliberate.--V.
Jake_Mysterio - 14 Nov 2007 23:01 GMT >> I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally. I am in nm. I >> have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mark. I suffered the consequences of the bug the other day. I had my pally at level 75.5 and was almost able to wear his dracs when SPLAT!.. I didn't know there was a boss with FE on him and i went splat. :(
 Signature Jake Mysterio - The Mysterious One of Nothingness.
Patrick Vervoorn - 14 Nov 2007 23:27 GMT >> I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally. I am in nm. I >> have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >kill him before you can put some distance between you or that this will be >one of the lucky times. Perhaps it's blockable?
This is just speculation, I don't know the intricate details... But I've noticed with my only melee char I made recently (also an UT Smiter, 1 succesful run behind him this ladder), that it's not always 'BLAMMO' when killing an FE enchanted boss. ;)
Regards,
Patrick.
~misfit~ - 15 Nov 2007 11:47 GMT >>> I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally. I am in nm. >>> I have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Smiter, 1 succesful run behind him this ladder), that it's not always > 'BLAMMO' when killing an FE enchanted boss. ;) I tend to agree with you Patrick. I've just been playing with a friend, me with a pally, the friend with a frenzy barb. We took out the council and one was FE. The barb's (and my merc's) life ball went down to about 10% while mine hardly moved. All I could think was I was the only one with a shield.
 Signature TTFN,
Shaun.
RJ - 15 Nov 2007 00:02 GMT > I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally. I am in nm. I have > killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire Enchanted, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (I also have 'magic damage reduced by x')? Or have I just been 'lucky' so > far and the next one could take me with him when he goes? u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye
ArtDent - 15 Nov 2007 00:56 GMT > u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye Seriously? There is nothing that can let you live through it? Because I think I did get hit by it just a little bit ago. My life ball went ALMOST empty. From full to looking empty in the blink of an eye. But, I did not die. I sure came close, fingers are still a bit shaky, heh. I have damage reduced by 27 total, and reduced by at least 10 percent too. Magic damage reduced by ~22 I think.
 Signature As I sit here planning my world takeover... The government is watching. <waves> Hi government!
Bingain - 15 Nov 2007 02:39 GMT >> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I have damage reduced by 27 total, and reduced by at least 10 percent too. > Magic damage reduced by ~22 I think. It also depends who that FE bugger is. It's amazing you can live to tell the tale about killing a FE Fatso. I can't remember if FE is all fire or if there's a physical component in it. MDR surely helps, but I'm not sure about DRx/DRx%. Tommi Gustafsson used to have a couple of pages digging into game mechanics like this on www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/ but I can't find it anymore.
Anyway, I still remember a key factor of FE damage is the monster's life in Normal difficulty (I think this is what the bug is in NM -- they probably have used NM life.) So a FE Fallen unique in a solo game probably won't do too much to you and you'll survive nicely. If it's Lister (I think he's the non-act-boss with the most blood in Normal) then good luck.
Note also that FE is not just deadly in NM. In hell it's usually no biggie, but if the monster is spawned with other nasty mods, it's as deadly. I lost a hammerdin to a hell FE+CE+Conviction Fatso in a solo game. 95% res.all, 75% block, 2k life, nothing mattered. I whined in channel afterwards, and was met with scornful remark -- "only 2k life? my barb with 5k life has just died to the same bugger!"
When meleeing in HC, what I do when I see a pack coming is to step back, let the merc engage first (and if he doesn't, I'll do what he usually does: lure the monsters to him), and then I'll check mods of the boss before I decide if I'll join in for the fun or not.
Bing
RelMark - 21 Nov 2007 02:21 GMT > I can't remember if FE is all fire or if there's a physical component > in it. MDR surely helps, but I'm not sure about DRx/DRx%. Tommi > Gustafsson used to have a couple of pages digging into game mechanics > like this on www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/ but I can't find it anymore. The site appears to still be available here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050212193038/http://www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/
RelMark
Amarande - 15 Nov 2007 02:42 GMT >> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I have damage reduced by 27 total, and reduced by at least 10 percent too. > Magic damage reduced by ~22 I think. Sure it's not just the FE explosion getting a critical hit (if this can happen? Though ISTR that ALL monster attacks can critical, even ones that wouldn't be able to from a player)?
In any case, regarding the original post, FE explosions appear to be similar to the ones from Corpse Explosion, so part fire and part physical damage, so fire res and damage reduced by % items do help.
And the only FE "bugs" I know about don't really even concern FE alone, but rather FE in combination with other effects, specifically CE and LE (or scarab's lightning thing), which seem to apparently have the following results -
a) FE + LE/scarab = Invisible FE explosion each time you trigger the bolts
b) FE + CE = FE explosion and cold nova on death, but apparently these actually happen *twice* each
c) CE + LE/scarab = Invisible cold nova each time you trigger the bolts
d) FE + CE + LE/scarab = Invisible FE explosion AND cold nova (2 of each?? Not sure) each time you trigger the bolts AND double dose of FE and CE damage on death
Or is this a different bug?
Jaffir - 15 Nov 2007 04:04 GMT >>> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Or is this a different bug? This occures in NM games. Run the council in Act 3 NM a dozen times... you will most likely run into it. Do it softcore though.... = D
Jaffir
Amarande - 19 Nov 2007 20:45 GMT > This occures in NM games. Run the council in Act 3 NM a dozen times... you > will most likely run into it. Do it softcore though.... = D Ahh, I recall that one now.
That's more a balancing issue than a bug - IIRC what happened there was that the multiplier (basically % of max monster life) used to determine how much damage an FE explosion causes is not as well balanced on Nightmare as it is on Normal or Hell.
In fact, it used to be even worse on Hell, but it got rebalanced during the 1.10 beta ... NM wasn't balanced as well or at all though, possibly because it depends quite a lot on the max HP of the particular boss concerned. Indeed it is not so noticeable with bosses that don't have much HP, unless the other behavior (interaction between multiple *E mods, and *that*, I believe, is much more likely to really be a bug, though 1.11 did not to my knowledge fix it) is involved. Else you would constantly hear about people dying to the Countess's death, or to the Grand Vizier's or Colenzo's during Chaos or Baal runs, while this doesn't seem to normally be the case; it seems to almost always be high-HP enemies like Council, Urdars, Venom Lords, Act 5 minotaurs, and probably Lister when he gets that mod where people post of losing a hardcore character.
In fact the NM behavior may actually be more consistent with the original intent of the Fire Enchanted mod ... by comparison it actually seems somewhat wimpy on Hell after the rebalance, unless again the multiple-enchantment bug is involved. But it does seem to be the general opinion that it's a tad too powerful with high-HP bosses ...
ArtDent - 15 Nov 2007 06:16 GMT > >> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > happen? Though ISTR that ALL monster attacks can critical, even ones > that wouldn't be able to from a player)? ********************************** * Important FE info follows ** **********************************
> In any case, regarding the original post, FE explosions appear to be > similar to the ones from Corpse Explosion, so part fire and part [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Or is this a different bug? This is the bug. I am pretty sure the FE + LE combo is what *almost* got me, I did see one boss with those. But it could have been the 'triple whammy' for all I know for sure. There were at least three bosses and their packs. All 'big' boys in the River of Flame, heh. Urdars, Blood Lords, and another pack of Urdars. I think it was one of the Urdar bosses. I didn't even have time to see all their mods before it happened, there were too many big monster bodies all bunched up together.
Deja Vu all over again.
 Signature And on the 8th day God said: "Ok, Murphy, you take over."
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