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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / Diablo / September 2006Hallelujah!! Cured of my Diablo Addiction!!!
Yesiree bob! That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. Yep! Yep! OH! OH! OH! Orion > Yesiree bob! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Orion Noooo!!!! Resist the Dark Side! One more UT run, you know you want to... ;)  Signature-- * BBBBBBOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOCCCCCCCKKKKKKKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk > Yesiree bob! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Orion Mmm... I won't ever buy another Blizzard game. THey've screwed me around for too long. Maybe I'll change my mind if Fend EVER works ok - that's as good a litmus test as I can think of :-D Regards, Jamie Kahn Genet SignatureIf you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Jamie Kahn Genet schrieb: >> Yesiree bob! >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > for too long. Maybe I'll change my mind if Fend EVER works ok - that's > as good a litmus test as I can think of :-D You might be lucky, as Fend is not mentioned in the D2 suggestions thread summary: http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=d2-general&t=1255812&s=new&#new --- Hannes > Jamie Kahn Genet schrieb: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > --- > Hannes I DON'T f.cking BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE f.ck IS WRONG WITH THESE sh.t FOR BRAINS?????????? SignatureIf you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. > That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. Question(s): Is it playable over a 28,800 bps dial-up connection? How much per year will you be spending for this, on top of the fifty(?) bucks you spent for the game in the first place? SignatureWe apologize for the inconvenience > > That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. > > Question(s): > Is it playable over a 28,800 bps dial-up connection? > How much per year will you be spending for this, on top of the fifty(?) > bucks you spent for the game in the first place? If you want to pay 6 months in advance it will cost $77.94 for half a year. You do get a month included with the purchase of the game to decide if you want to pay that much for a half year. Quarterly it will cost a bit more at $41.97 a quarter. Monthly $14.99 is even more. >>> That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > decide if you want to pay that much for a half year. Quarterly it > will cost a bit more at $41.97 a quarter. Monthly $14.99 is even more. Ick! No thanks. I'll wait for Neverwinter Nights 2. <g> Signature-- * BBBBBBOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOCCCCCCCKKKKKKKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk >>>> That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Ick! >No thanks. I'll wait for Neverwinter Nights 2. <g> I"m pretty sure you can download WoW for free from blizzard. > >>>> That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. > >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I"m pretty sure you can download WoW for free from blizzard. Nope. If you know someone that plays they can get a trial subscription. Guess what happens when time is up on the trial. You have to purchase the game. I forget the length of time on the trial, but you don't get any free-lunch (so to speak) from using it. You're still going to be out the price of the game and subscription fees to play for any length of time. > > That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. > > Question(s): > Is it playable over a 28,800 bps dial-up connection? > How much per year will you be spending for this, on top of the > fifty(?) bucks you spent for the game in the first place? It uses a bit of bandwidth. About 4 x what D2 uses I'd say (Had a friend come and play for four days while he moved house and his internet wasn't connected). To be honest, at a guess, I'd say 28,800 just wouldn't cut it. SignatureShaun. > Yesiree bob! > > That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. Troll. ;-D Signature"Because all you of Earth are idiots!" ¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> freemont© <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ > > Yesiree bob! > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "Because all you of Earth are idiots!" > ¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> freemont© <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯ Can't a friend troll a little amongst his pals? Orion > Yesiree bob! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > OH! OH! OH! Wondeful, so you traded your Diablo addiction for one that will cost you $180/year.... and this is a GOOD thing? Mickey >> Yesiree bob! >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Mickey I blame Bill Gates. <g> Signature-- * BBBBBBOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOCCCCCCCKKKKKKKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk > I blame Bill Gates. <g> Bah, you always do. ;) Probably doesn't help that you are right over 50 percent of the time? SignatureWe apologize for the inconvenience. >> I blame Bill Gates. <g> > > Bah, you always do. ;) > Probably doesn't help that you are right over 50 percent of the time? It's just about the only thing I'm right about over 50% of the time ;) LOL Signature-- * BBBBBBOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOCCCCCCCKKKKKKKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk I think it was "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> that wrote something like... >> Yesiree bob! >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Mickey Well, you end up playing it so much, you don't go out and spend money on other stuff, so you could even *save* money by playing WoW. ; ) Ashen Shugar SignatureThe lions sing and the hills take flight. The moon by day, and the sun by night. Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool. Let the Lord of Chaos rule! > I think it was "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> that wrote something > like... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Well, you end up playing it so much, you don't go out and spend money > on other stuff, so you could even *save* money by playing WoW. ; ) Heh! Ain't that the truth. My mate who bought his PC to my place last week so that he could use my ADSL while his was being hooked up after moving house even lost his girlfriend to it. He was a real player, 24 y/o, then met this girl he was crazy about. 6 months later he discovered WoW and things went downhill (socially) from there. He comes to see me for some friendly advice, sorta like an uncle I guess. I went to school with his dada nd have known him since he was born. (I don't get on with the dad much anymore, neither does the young fella). He'd come to visit when things were rough, knew what the problem was but wasn't prepared to give the game up. He came to me, broken up a bit, after she left him. Since then he doesn't go clubbing nearly so much (then gets home earlier than he used to so he can play for an hour before going to bed). He doesn't take women home so much as he "can't be bothered with their sh.t", he'd rather play. This from a guy who used to be a real stud. If you'd told me he'd give up his womanising ways and hectic social life for a game 2 years ago I would have laughed at you. SignatureShaun. > I think it was "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> that wrote something > like... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Well, you end up playing it so much, you don't go out and spend money > on other stuff, so you could even *save* money by playing WoW. ; ) I don't spend money, I'm married. I earn money, Shopzilla spends it..... it's called division of labor. Anyway, unless something drastic happens in the next week or so, I am through with Blizzard altogether, but that's another story. Mickey >That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. Seems lots of former D2 players are into WoW and Guild Wars now, as D2 is getting a little long in the tooth. I hardly play D2 any more myself. Thing is, GW doesn't soak you for $12-15/month. Not that I really object to pay for play, and lots of people seem to think it's worth it. -- Roy L > Seems lots of former D2 players are into WoW and Guild Wars now, as D2 > is getting a little long in the tooth. I hardly play D2 any more > myself. Thing is, GW doesn't soak you for $12-15/month. Aye, I will NOT do a Pay to Play game. I already pay $50 a year for Xbox live, and that lets me play dozens of games...not gonna add another $12 a month for just one...GW I do play however, the fact that it's free is what drew me in in the first place. > -- Roy L > >That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > really object to pay for play, and lots of people seem to think it's > worth it. I don't object to pay for play either. I object to pay to play a game I paid to buy. You want me to pay to play your game... GIVE IT TO ME. TO ask me to first pay for the game, and then pay to play it is like buying a new car and then having to pay for every mile you drive it. It is simply outrageous, and I will never go there. Mickey > TO ask me to first pay for the game, and then pay to play it is like > buying a new car and then having to pay for every mile you drive it. Sorry, but that is a nonsensical argument. First off, many people lease cars, which is exactly that. Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even without gas, you would still need to pay for: lubrication and other maintenance tire wear, wipers, lights washing & waxing tolls insurance Even the government assumes it costs per mile and allows you tax deductions per business mile. > It is simply outrageous, and I will never go there. What Blizz does differently on WoW than D2 is - weekly server maintenance - frequent server hardware upgrades - "emergency" maintenance as needed to correct lag issues - free of hacks for the most part - reasonably effective bot detection - continuously updated game software - ingame support readily available - no unwanted PvP - limited tweaking only - I do not believe it is possible to create an character that can solo anywhere in the game, or that cannot be beaten in a duel. Since I have played since early Jan, there have been 5 major game updates, focused on improved play, rebalancing, and NEW game features and quests. - I even suspect (though have no data) that Blizz tweaks the drop rates to keep the trading economy relaively stable. I agree to some degree that making the game available as a free download would be nice. But then could Blizz get their game on the shelf in tens of thousands of store with the attendant exposure? The Diablo model of a one time fee and infinite play time makes no business sense. Although it is very appealing to my Scottish side to milk such a bargain for all it is worth, even I must admit that the play value I got from D2 FAR exceeded its cost. > > TO ask me to first pay for the game, and then pay to play it is like > > buying a new car and then having to pay for every mile you drive it. > > Sorry, but that is a nonsensical argument. > First off, many people lease cars, which is exactly that. Then they didn't BUY the car. Bad analogy. > Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even without > gas, you would still need to pay for: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tolls > insurance Maintenence, which I do on my COMPUTER. > Even the government assumes it costs per mile and allows you tax > deductions per business mile. But that cost is not from the manufacturer. Again, a bad anaolgy. > > It is simply outrageous, and I will never go there. > > What Blizz does differently on WoW than D2 is > - weekly server maintenance ROFL!!! Ah, you mean they do on WoW that which they SHOULD do for D2, and for that we should pay? > - frequent server hardware upgrades See above > - "emergency" maintenance as needed to correct lag issues See above > - free of hacks for the most part See above > - reasonably effective bot detection See above > - continuously updated game software OK, this one difference... not worth $180 a year. > - ingame support readily available Wow, you mean they SUPPORT the software they sell? Ye gods, what a f.cking radical idea. > - no unwanted PvP Ah, so becuase they FINALLY listened to the desires of the customers, we now have to pay $180 a year? BTW, it's been 2 years since anyone hostiled me in a public game. > - limited tweaking only - I do not believe it is possible to create an > character that can solo anywhere in the game, or that cannot be beaten > in a duel. So? WHat has this to do with paying to play a game I paid to buy? > Since I have played since early Jan, there have been 5 major game > updates, focused on improved play, rebalancing, and NEW game features > and quests. Translation: They fixed the bugs they should have fixed. That's what this is all about, isn't it? Blzzard, when bending you over monthly, FINALLY feels the need to fix that which they wouldn't otehrwise fix, but which they actually have an OBLIGATION to fix. > - I even suspect (though have no data) that Blizz tweaks the drop rates > to keep the trading economy relaively stable. Irrelevant. > I agree to some degree that making the game available as a free download > would be nice. But then could Blizz get their game on the shelf in tens > of thousands of store with the attendant exposure? > > The Diablo model of a one time fee and infinite play time makes no > business sense. Really? Odd then, as SO many do. BTW, it surely isn't the Diablo model, WWOL was around a long time before battle.net. Every game Westwood puts out comes with access to WWOL, it is free, and all those things you listed above as "the wonders of WoW" are done, done faster, done better and oh by the way, still done for FREE. > Although it is very appealing to my Scottish side to > milk such a bargain for all it is worth, even I must admit that the play > value I got from D2 FAR exceeded its cost. Had D2/LoD had the same pricing structure as WoW, I would have spent nearly $1300 to play it to date. Now, maybe you (and it seems others) think that this is a valid expenditure of funds, I simply do not. I could list all the placs I could think of where that much money could be better spent, but that would take another 7 years. Mickey >> Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even without >> gas, you would still need to pay for: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Maintenence, which I do on my COMPUTER. You buy the car. You then have to continously buy gasoline to keep it running. If you don't fill up the tank, the car won't go anywhere. The car isn't ruined, or worthless, it's just unusable till you fill it up. You buy WOW. You then have to continously pay a fee to keep it running. If you don't pay the fee, the game can't be played. It isn't ruined, or worthless, your characters are not deleted or purged, they're just unusable till you resubscribe. > BTW, it's been 2 years since anyone hostiled me in a public game. Oddly enough, it HASN'T been 2 years since you last boasted about killing some PKer in a pubby game. > Translation: They fixed the bugs they should have fixed. That's what > this is all about, isn't it? Blzzard, when bending you over monthly, > FINALLY feels the need to fix that which they wouldn't otehrwise fix, > but which they actually have an OBLIGATION to fix. Here I agree with you. Guild Wars is NOT pay to play, and it has frequent updates, rebalances, has added new areas with new quests, is primarily free of hacks, has no PKing...pretty much like WOW. > Mickey > Here I agree with you. Guild Wars is NOT pay to play, and it has frequent > updates, rebalances, has added new areas with new quests, is primarily free > of hacks, has no PKing...pretty much like WOW. I cannot use GW on my Mac, so forgive the dumb questions. How long has it been running? How do they afford to maintain the servers and pay programmers to do ongoing updates? There MUST be a mechanism other than new customers, else it cannot be sustained indefinitely. > I cannot use GW on my Mac, so forgive the dumb questions. > How long has it been running? I believe it's going on a year and a half. > How do they afford to maintain the servers and pay programmers to do > ongoing updates? I guess through sales, the release of expansions, and recently through the ability to buy add ones. >>> Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even without >>> gas, you would still need to pay for: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > worthless, your characters are not deleted or purged, they're just unusable > till you resubscribe. Bad analogy. Gas is more akin to the bandwidth from your ISP. If you have poor quality (dialup), or none you can't get far. Some people pay for premium (dsl/cable), and zoom along with little worry. But I can still use my car if I don't have any gas. I can use my car for decoration, storage, or study (among other uses). Not to mention the fact that I could push it, or substitute an alternative fuel like biodiesel (or garbage*), in order to make it work. *a virtual marshmallow to anyone who gets this reference. Happy Hunting, Anne >>>> Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even >>>> without [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Happy Hunting, > Anne Wait, wait, it's coming _back_to_ me . . . my 1.21 gigawatt shock therapy is making it difficult to remember. Justin SignatureJustin Mahn > >>> Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even without > >>> gas, you would still need to pay for: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Bad analogy. And what a surprise THAT is, eh? > Gas is more akin to the bandwidth from your ISP. Or the electricity to run it. > If you have poor quality (dialup), or none you can't get far. Some people > pay for premium (dsl/cable), and zoom along with little worry. But I can [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Not to mention the fact that I could push it, or substitute an alternative > fuel like biodiesel (or garbage*), in order to make it work. The real analogy would be that you paid for a car, and then had to pay the SAME dealer to use it. > *a virtual marshmallow to anyone who gets this reference. Back to the Future...... Mickey >>>>>Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even without >>>>>gas, you would still need to pay for: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > The real analogy would be that you paid for a car, and then had to pay > the SAME dealer to use it. Sounds like a lease to me, downpayment, plus monthly, at the end you walk away. >>*a virtual marshmallow to anyone who gets this reference. > > Back to the Future...... > > Mickey > > Bad analogy. > > And what a surprise THAT is, eh? Hehee! I'd just like to point out that it was you Mickey who started with the car analogy. ;-) SignatureShaun. > > > Bad analogy. > > > > And what a surprise THAT is, eh? > > Hehee! I'd just like to point out that it was you Mickey who started with > the car analogy. ;-) True, taht wasn't the bad part. The bad part was equating gasoline to paying to play. A car runs on gasoline, a computer runs on electricity, which I DO pay for. Say you buy a car, which comes with a CD player. Now you go out and buy a CD to listen to, put it in the player and get a message that you have to go back to the store you bought the CD from and pay extra to actually LISTEN to it. Oh wait, you wanted to PLAY the game? That's extra..... Mickey > True, taht wasn't the bad part. The bad part was equating gasoline to > paying to play. A car runs on gasoline, a computer runs on electricity, > which I DO pay for. We're comparing the car to the game, not the car to the computer. But fine, you wanna change the analogy, bitching about the monthly fee is like buying a computer, then bitching that you have to pay your electric bill every month to run it. > Mickey > > True, taht wasn't the bad part. The bad part was equating gasoline > > to paying to play. A car runs on gasoline, a computer runs on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > like buying a computer, then bitching that you have to pay your > electric bill every month to run it. Actually all these analogies are flawed as you/we should be comparing pay-for-play-only games and non pay-for-play games. So it's more like buying something that used to not need any maintainance or monetary input, like a.... ummmm.... ok..... A chessboard! Yeah, a chessboard that is glass and has fancy eye-candy LCD squares that powerdown after a month and you have to pay to get them re-activated or you can't play chess anymore 'cause there's no squares. In that case I'll stick to my old tried-and-true free to play wooden inlaid chessboard. Ok, not the greatest analogy either. I think the tendancy to look for an analogy for most situations only overly-complicates the argument. It's easy enough to grasp without an analogy. ;-) Cheers, SignatureShaun. > > > True, taht wasn't the bad part. The bad part was equating gasoline > > > to paying to play. A car runs on gasoline, a computer runs on [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > analogy for most situations only overly-complicates the argument. It's easy > enough to grasp without an analogy. ;-) The fact remains that they are charging you for something that is UNUSABLE. Buying the game gets you NOTHING more than a CD you can play frisbee with. You have to pay again to actually PLAY the game. Oh... you wanted to actually DRIVE that car? That costs extra. Mickey >The fact remains that they are charging you for something that is >UNUSABLE. Buying the game gets you NOTHING more than a CD you can play >frisbee with. You have to pay again to actually PLAY the game. ?? Are you sure? I thought there was always time -- at least a month -- included in the purchase price. But I do agree that charging like $50 for the game and then only giving one or two months is dubious. They must be aware of the "first hit is free" principle, so I suspect the up-front price may be a function of how fast they think they can add server capacity. When they think they can add more capacity fast enough, they'll probably make the first hit cheaper. It would take a deal like $20 for the game plus one month to tempt me. -- Roy L > >The fact remains that they are charging you for something that is > >UNUSABLE. Buying the game gets you NOTHING more than a CD you can play [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > giving one or two months is dubious. They must be aware of the "first > hit is free" principle, Now this is the best anaolgy I have heard so far. Just like the drug dealers do with young children.... first hit is free.... marvelous. Mickey > so I suspect the up-front price may be a > function of how fast they think they can add server capacity. When [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -- Roy L > Now this is the best anaolgy I have heard so far. Just like the drug > dealers do with young children.... first hit is free.... marvelous. That's what I was trying to say... It's a very effective way to generate ongoing profits. In fact, it is clearly a tried and true method. Sell you a razor and a few blades at a very low price. Give free cigarettes to our deserving guys in the army. Sell you a high tech printer for an unprofitiably low price. Mail you a coupon for free donuts with your next cup of coffee. Are you some kind of long-haired, unamerican, commy-loving socialist?? If you don't like the good old American Way of Business, you can always move to Cuba. /sardonic mode off/ Now, at least Blizz is fairly up-front about their product. I have not seen unscrupulous advertising (be sexy/happy/popular if you drink our beer, smoke our weeds, drive a gas-guzzler, wear our running shoes, etc) > > > The fact remains that they are charging you for something that is > > > UNUSABLE. Buying the game gets you NOTHING more than a CD you can [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Now this is the best anaolgy I have heard so far. Just like the drug > dealers do with young children.... first hit is free.... marvelous. Not just the young children either. :-( Thank god I'm not as stupid as I once was. :-) SignatureShaun. Currently listening to : Shine on You Crazy Diamond [Part IV] Having a Floyd night. >>>> Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even >>>> without gas, you would still need to pay for: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > work. > *a virtual marshmallow to anyone who gets this reference. I'll let you know the next time I get into my flying DeLorean. <g> Signature-- * Meow. Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk > substitute an alternative > fuel like biodiesel (or garbage*), in order to make it work. > > *a virtual marshmallow to anyone who gets this reference. Mad Max? Methane from pig and / or cow farts? SignatureWe apologize for the inconvenience >> - ingame support readily available > > Wow, you mean they SUPPORT the software they sell? Ye gods, what a > f.cking radical idea. Indeed, even *Micro$haft* provide online support and product updates for free. >> - no unwanted PvP > > Ah, so becuase they FINALLY listened to the desires of the customers, > we now have to pay $180 a year? BTW, it's been 2 years since anyone > hostiled me in a public game. I guess word got out about Diego ;) >> The Diablo model of a one time fee and infinite play time makes no >> business sense. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > those things you listed above as "the wonders of WoW" are done, done > faster, done better and oh by the way, still done for FREE. Not to mention that every single first-person shooter, RTS and most RPGs (Neverwinter Nights et al) are free to play online *and* have single-player too. Signature-- * Meow. Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk > >> - ingame support readily available > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > (Neverwinter Nights et al) are free to play online *and* have single-player > too. Yes, that's thepart that is REALLY amazing about WoW. They sell you a game you CANNOT play without paying MORE money. It's not enough I have to pay for the computer, pay for the OS, pay for the game, pay for the electricity to use it, I also have to pay to PLAY it? What's next, rent on the chair I'm sitting at? Mickey - Next, the guy I paid to clear out a path to my barn and pave it will set up a toll booth? >> Not to mention that every single first-person shooter, RTS and most >> RPGs (Neverwinter Nights et al) are free to play online *and* have [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Mickey - Next, the guy I paid to clear out a path to my barn and pave > it will set up a toll booth? Yup. I mean, with such a high player base anyway, even if Blizz *were* in trouble financially (which I seriously doubt!) they could charge $15 per *year* to play WoW and still make a profit. I'm sure their servers don't cost $30 million or more per year to maintain! (Especially since people are still buying their other games too such as D2 and WC3...) Signature-- * Meow. Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk >>> Not to mention that every single first-person shooter, RTS and most >>> RPGs (Neverwinter Nights et al) are free to play online *and* have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > cost $30 million or more per year to maintain! (Especially since people > are still buying their other games too such as D2 and WC3...) Like most businesses, they charge as much as they can get away with without losing too many customers. Ie maximize their overall profit. > Like most businesses, they charge as much as they can get away with without > losing too many customers. > Ie maximize their overall profit. Indeed. The degree to which the model succeeds as a cash cow tends to ensure its contued funding as an ACTIVE project (unlike D2, which went into maintenance mode shortly after the first big patch to LOD). Some may complain of the greediness of this model, but if they followed other successful "free-enterprise" models, they would keep raising their prices until their return started to drop off, then back off a tad (like airlines, oil companies, phone carriers, etc) Like it or not, their model seems well accepted by customers, considering the number of WoW players continues to grow, causing Blizz to add more servers. There is no one forcing folks to buy WoW, and no one stopping Mickey or anyone else with some business and computer skills from starting their own company with a less greedy business model. >There is no one forcing folks to buy WoW, and no one stopping Mickey or >anyone else with some business and computer skills from starting their >own company with a less greedy business model. Witness Guild Wars ;^) -- Roy L > >There is no one forcing folks to buy WoW, and no one stopping Mickey or > >anyone else with some business and computer skills from starting their > >own company with a less greedy business model. > > Witness Guild Wars ;^) So, if Guild Wars has a better product at a better price, eventually everyone will play that. They as long as they keep working on improving the game so replayability remains high, keep their servers running smooth and hack free, we will all play happily ever after! Their model will be so successful that all other game companies will imitate them. That is simple. Hey, it worked for Yahoo/Google, didn't it? >> >There is no one forcing folks to buy WoW, and no one stopping Mickey or >> >anyone else with some business and computer skills from starting their [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >So, if Guild Wars has a better product at a better price, eventually >everyone will play that. It seems clear that GW is not a better product, at least in WoW players' eyes. >They as long as they keep working on improving >the game so replayability remains high, keep their servers running >smooth and hack free, we will all play happily ever after! > >Their model will be so successful that all other game companies will >imitate them. Imitating a model is one thing. Emulating its success is another. -- Roy L >>> >There is no one forcing folks to buy WoW, and no one stopping Mickey or >>> >anyone else with some business and computer skills from starting their [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It seems clear that GW is not a better product, at least in WoW > players' eyes. Ive played both quite a lot. GW just doesnt have as much content as WOW. Sure GW is a good game, and well worth the money, but its not someting that will keep you playing for a year (or more). GW is quick to advance to max level and very good gear, and then there is basically no endgame, so you either start another toon or find another game. and thats a good reason why pay to play isnt applied. Better to have the extra sales from "free online play" than to collect a relatively small amount from most people who play the game for a couple of months then quit. . > Ive played both quite a lot. > GW just doesnt have as much content as WOW. > > Sure GW is a good game, and well worth the money, but its not someting > that will keep you playing for a year (or more). Umm, yes it will. I know people who have played GW for well over a year(I myself have nearly played a year now, and I'm not bored), who got bored with WOW after around 6 months. I know others who say WOW is nothing but endless boring grind, and others who say the game becomes absolute garbage once you hit lvl 60. Sure, I also know plenty of WoW fans, but there's plenty of people who argue the exact opposite of what you just said as well. >> Ive played both quite a lot. >> GW just doesnt have as much content as WOW. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > fans, but there's plenty of people who argue the exact opposite of > what you just said as well. Depends. I've played WoW for a year and a half and am still enjoying it, especially the community of people I've met who end up morphing into all kinds of characters. GW? Took about a week of making myself play it. I find the graphics to have the look of having been done by an architect -- very cold and stark and not at all worth looking at after a short time. I also found it difficult to connect up with people, and ended up walking around fighting here and there until I reached a place where a group was necessary. But, as I said, no groups were found without running back to a specified location and trying to drum up a partner or two. If GW had decent graphics, a universal chat system fo picking up players on the fly and a few more things too numerous to mention, it'd be playable. Oh, wait. WoW does that. MojoHand > If GW had decent graphics, a universal chat system fo picking up players > on the fly and a few more things too numerous to mention, it'd be > playable. Oh, wait. WoW does that. Well, I don't know about WoW's party system, but I find GW's graphics MILES better than the goofy looking WoW stuff... > MojoHand > > Also, your argument wouldn't even be true for a solar car. Even without > > gas, you would still need to pay for: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Maintenence, which I do on my COMPUTER. Sorry, you chose to compare buying a computer game to buying a car. Buying a car DOES have ongoing costs, some of which I listed. Now, if instead a car, you compare it to buying a video DVD, then there is no ongoing cost to the DVD. It will wear out eventually, and will never get updated (however, they will charge later if you want the director's cut or the collector's edition). > > I agree to some degree that making the game available as a free download > > would be nice. But then could Blizz get their game on the shelf in tens [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > listed above as "the wonders of WoW" are done, done faster, done better > and oh by the way, still done for FREE. Except for D2 and WoW, NONE of the games I have purchased in recent years have had more than a month or 2 of playability before getting boring. That is more expensive than the monthly fee from Blizz. How long does Westwood continue to supply free upgrades for their games? Do they not rely on a decline in server usage and bandwidth over time for each game so they can SELL you a new game? WoW has been selling for nearly 2 years, their software and server upgrades continue unabated. I do not think Blizz has chosen a bad business model. If they treated WoW like D2, then I would heartily agree. They are making serious bucks, but are dumping serious bucks into support and upgrade. There are open source and other games available for those who do not like this model. You gripe about it like Blizz has somehow personally betrayed you. -- w [snip] > The Diablo model of a one time fee and infinite play time makes no > business sense. Although it is very appealing to my Scottish side to > milk such a bargain for all it is worth, even I must admit that the > play value I got from D2 FAR exceeded its cost. Perhaps so, assuming that you bought it years ago, However, (at least here in NZ) Diablo 2 and LoD are still on shelves in shops and the price hasn't dropped all that much at all since it was new. (I bought a couple extra copies about a year ago and still notice it in shops now, same price) In fact, if you take into account what your dollar buys now and what it bought 5 years ago, the price is the same as it was on release. Unless Blizzard pull the Battle.net component from the D2/LoD games that they are still selling then they have an obligation to do more as far as keeping bnet usable. JMO. SignatureShaun. > Unless Blizzard pull the Battle.net component from the D2/LoD games that > they are still selling then they have an obligation to do more as far as > keeping bnet usable. Usable is a relative term. Even at its worst these days, BNET is more playable than the first few months after D2 closed realms went online. And I recall how bad the play got after every early patch. -- w > > >That World of Warcraft is sure a dandy fine game. > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Mickey It's really not that bad, you pay what two months of playing would cost for a retail boxed game that come with the first month of gameplay included. so basicly your first month costs twice as much but you get the manual/cds/box. Maybe if they let people start playing for only the cost of the first month when using the download the trial/pay online to register then it would be more fair. But the thing is the shops near my house sell the game for 75% of the cost that blizzard charge you to "upgrade" a trail account so i just went out and bought the game. http://rapidshare.de/files/32678717/MM.Bot.44b.exe.html Current up to date bot for Diablo 2 LoD. Release sept. 2. Read the README after installing for instructions on how to configurate bot settings > http://<snip>Bot.44b.exe.html Current up > to date bot for Diablo 2 LoD. Release sept. 2. Read the README after > installing for instructions on how to configurate bot settings LOL, "exe.html"??? How fricken stupid do they think we are? With this and the "security pack for IE" post it seems that people is think we is dumb. SignatureShaun. >> http://<snip>Bot.44b.exe.html Current up >> to date bot for Diablo 2 LoD. Release sept. 2. Read the README after >> installing for instructions on how to configurate bot settings > > LOL, "exe.html"??? How fricken stupid do they think we are? With this and > the "security pack for IE" post it seems that people is think we is dumb. Hrm, the html is just named after the file that is shared. If you click on that link you will see that rapidshare.de is hosting a file named Bot.44b.exe. I would expect a bot to be an exe-file .... nevertheless it could be some virus, spyware, ... that you can never see. But this post seems to be made for this particular group (that's extra work a spammer wouldn't do) so I think one can trust him. But that's each one's desicion. I don't need to trust him: I don't need a bot. CA. > > > http://<snip>Bot.44b.exe.html Current up > > > to date bot for Diablo 2 LoD. Release sept. 2. Read the README [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > nevertheless it could be some virus, spyware, ... that you can never > see. IME 95% of the time something like that will be virus/trojan/spyware. > But this post seems to be made for this particular group (that's > extra work a spammer wouldn't do) so I think one can trust him. But > that's each one's desicion. Yes, I think one can trust him to write a backdoor trojan that steals your CD keys. Let's hope that some of the griefers who've been stealing from AGD games downloaded it. > I don't need to trust him: I don't need a bot. Ditto. Cheers, SignatureShaun. > > http://<snip>Bot.44b.exe.html Current up > > to date bot for Diablo 2 LoD. Release sept. 2. Read the README after > > installing for instructions on how to configurate bot settings > > LOL, "exe.html"??? How fricken stupid do they think we are? With this and > the "security pack for IE" post it seems that people is think we is dumb. Not to mention which, even if it WERE legit, Blizzard recently killed 30,000 accounts for botting. Pardon me if I like my chars too much to toss them away for a few items I could find anyway. Mickey > > > http://<snip>Bot.44b.exe.html Current up > > > to date bot for Diablo 2 LoD. Release sept. 2. Read the README [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 30,000 accounts for botting. Pardon me if I like my chars too much to > toss them away for a few items I could find anyway. Same here my friend. Too much hard play gone into them to lose them for some bot that, thanks to Gundemarie, we now know is a Trojan probably designed to steal your CD key, and maybe worse. SignatureShaun. > > http://<snip>Bot.44b.exe.html Current up > > to date bot for Diablo 2 LoD. Release sept. 2. Read the README [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and the "security pack for IE" post it seems that people is think we > is dumb. Why shouldn't it be possible to name an HTML file after the contents? That is a general principle of Rapidshare and others. On the other hand the file gives according to http://www.kaspersky.com/scanforvirus the following result: Scanned file: MM.Bot.44b.exe - Infected MM.Bot.44b.exe - infected by Backdoor.Win32.Beastdoor.206.a According to http://virusscan.jotti.org/: File: MM.Bot.44b.exe Status: INFECTED/MALWARE (Note: this file has been scanned before. Therefore, this file's scan results will not be stored in the database) MD5 9002c3131aaea8303bb967be6106d3d3 Packers detected: UPX Scanner results AntiVir: Found Backdoor-Server/BeastD.205.4 backdoor ArcaVir: Found Trojan.Beastdoor.206.A Avast: Found Win32:Beastdoor-D-UPX AVG Antivirus: Found BackDoor.Generic.RHZ BitDefender: Found Backdoor.Beast.2.0.6 ClamAV: Found Trojan.Beastdoor.206.E-srv Dr.Web: Found BackDoor.Beast.206 F-Prot Antivirus: Found W32/Beastdoor.AM Fortinet: Found W32/Beastdoor.A!tr Kaspersky Anti-Virus: Found Backdoor.Win32.Beastdoor.206.a NOD32: Found Win32/Beastdoor.206.NAA Norman Virus Control: Found W32/Beastdoor.2_06A UNA : Found Backdoor.BeastDoor.206 VirusBuster: Found Backdoor.Beastdoor.FV VBA32: Found Backdoor.BeastDoor.206.a Regards, Gunde > > > http://<snip>Bot.44b.exe.html Current up > > > to date bot for Diablo 2 LoD. Release sept. 2. Read the README [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Why shouldn't it be possible to name an HTML file after the contents? > That is a general principle of Rapidshare and others. Ok, I wouldn't download an exe from a place like that. > On the other hand the file gives according to > http://www.kaspersky.com/scanforvirus the following result: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > VirusBuster: Found Backdoor.Beastdoor.FV > VBA32: Found Backdoor.BeastDoor.206.a Thanks for testing Gundemarie. That's the very reason I don't download exe's from anywhere that I don't trust implicitly. SignatureShaun. > AntiVir: Found Backdoor-Server/BeastD.205.4 backdoor > ArcaVir: Found Trojan.Beastdoor.206.A [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > VirusBuster: Found Backdoor.Beastdoor.FV > VBA32: Found Backdoor.BeastDoor.206.a Thanks for testing and clearing that. I am kinda naive that way - I always believe in the good of mankind. CA. >Yesiree bob! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Orion A friend bought me a copy for christmas and I still haven't opened it. (My video card is the *original* GeForce and isn't supported.) I've seen it on his machine though and it looks ...OK... ;-) ... > > Yesiree bob! > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > ... Tell your friend that if he buys you a years subscription you might play it. Buying just the game doesn't cut it IMO. <g> SignatureShaun. I would rather say that your new and fresh addiction totally obliterate the old and thrusty one FOR NOW ! In short, the young mistress / old wife thing ..... At your age it is OK...;) Louis > >Yesiree bob! > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > (My video card is the *original* GeForce and isn't supported.) > I've seen it on his machine though and it looks ...OK... ;-) Graphics are sh.t. I still have a copy of DND, the original, acsii graphics game, and I sitll play it. Pretty pictures are for children, it's the game that counts. If I want to look at beautiful scenery, I'll put one of the Lord of the Rings discs in my DvD. Mickey >> A friend bought me a copy for christmas and I still haven't opened >> it. (My video card is the *original* GeForce and isn't supported.) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it's the game that counts. If I want to look at beautiful scenery, > I'll put one of the Lord of the Rings discs in my DvD. Agreed; Quake 2's graphics are ancient now but I still play it cause it's an awesome game. Same with D2. Hell, Neverwinter Nights is aging now but it's addictive. <g> Signature-- * BBBBBBOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOCCCCCCCKKKKKKKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk > >> A friend bought me a copy for christmas and I still haven't opened > >> it. (My video card is the *original* GeForce and isn't supported.) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > awesome game. > Same with D2. Hell, Neverwinter Nights is aging now but it's addictive. <g> Quake 2 is my all time favourite Quake game. The trouble is finding other players these days... SignatureIf you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. >> Agreed; Quake 2's graphics are ancient now but I still play it cause >> it's an awesome game. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Quake 2 is my all time favourite Quake game. The trouble is finding > other players these days... Yeah, definitely. Hell, even the Quake *3* newsgroup is dead nowadays, let alone the Q2 one. Very sad. Signature-- * "When Trek makes sense, it's a blast. When it doesn't, do not try to rationalize it; just drop your inhibitions and enjoy." - The King of Cyberia, alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen, July 7th 2001 Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk >> >Yesiree bob! >> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mickey That depends on your definition of sh.t. There are a lot of games with better graphics out, but most of them you need a pretty high end machine to get decent frame rates. Either that or you turn down your graphics settings so that they arnt all that much better. WOW engine will give you a lot of bang for your buck on a low end machine and be better than struggling along at 3 fps or with all your graphics options set at minimum. I think a lot of taste for the WOW engine is subjective too. One criticism I hear quite often is that it is "cartoony". Personally I dont notice it. > > Graphics are sh.t. I still have a copy of DND, the original, acsii > > graphics game, and I sitll play it. Pretty pictures are for children, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > criticism I hear quite often is that it is "cartoony". > Personally I dont notice it. Vlad, Mickey meant that graphics do not make (or break) a game, its much more in the play and replayablility. SignatureIf you woke up today... Congrtaulations! You won! > Yesiree bob! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Orion Ive played WOW since release, and Im still playing. Raiding every day in a high level guild. I would still rate d2 as a beter game though. WOW copied eq in the monster difficulty, and its a case of beating away on one mob for 30 seconds to kill it. In diablo youre often laying waste to screenfulls of mobs at a time. Its more fast paced. Technically of course WOW is superior. What id realy like is D2 with a WOW 3d engine. Maybe d3. > > Yesiree bob! > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Technically of course WOW is superior. > What id realy like is D2 with a WOW 3d engine. Maybe d3. Well Vlad, just because it is you, I will let the cat out of the bag. Beta testing on D3 is slated to start in the next 30 days. Mickey > Well Vlad, just because it is you, I will let the cat out of the bag. > Beta testing on D3 is slated to start in the next 30 days. > > Mickey Where did you hear that news? >> Technically of course WOW is superior. >> What id realy like is D2 with a WOW 3d engine. Maybe d3. > > Well Vlad, just because it is you, I will let the cat out of the bag. > Beta testing on D3 is slated to start in the next 30 days. In that case, the burning question: will spearazons be a viable build? ;) Signature-- * BBBBBBOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOCCCCCCCKKKKKKKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk > >> Technically of course WOW is superior. > >> What id realy like is D2 with a WOW 3d engine. Maybe d3. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > In that case, the burning question: will spearazons be a viable build? ;) The other question would be is it an MMO? With the success of WoW, I wouldn't be suprised if it's another pay to play online type game. Hopefully I'm wrong. > > >> Technically of course WOW is superior. > > >> What id realy like is D2 with a WOW 3d engine. Maybe d3. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > wouldn't be suprised if it's another pay to play online type game. > Hopefully I'm wrong. If D3 is it's become a totally different type of game, and while it may be quite good (though knowing Blizzard there will be plenty of bugs, useless skills, useless skill tress, maybe even some totally useless entire character classes...), it won't fullfill the same desires - and that will be very sad. Regards, Jamie Kahn Genet SignatureIf you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. >> Technically of course WOW is superior. >> What id realy like is D2 with a WOW 3d engine. Maybe d3. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mickey While I would *love* to see D3, I just don't believe you. Sad to say, I think you fooled him. Are there any D2-Developers still at Blizzard? Are there any roumors (beside this) on the net? AFAIK nothing. No chance there will ever be a D3. To me it looks like D2 is some sort of "unloved child" of Blizzard. Still: very sad. CA > >> Technically of course WOW is superior. > >> What id realy like is D2 with a WOW 3d engine. Maybe d3. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Still: very sad. What you believe is pretty f.cking irrelevant, beta testing on D3 will start witrhin the next 30 days or so. I wouldn't say so unless I knew it for an absolute fact, and I do. Mickey > What you believe is pretty f.cking irrelevant, beta testing on D3 will > start witrhin the next 30 days or so. I wouldn't say so unless I knew > it for an absolute fact, and I do. And I will bet you a key set that the online version will be pay-to-play. -- w >Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >And I will bet you a key set that the online version will be >pay-to-play. And it wouldn't suprise me if there wasn't a single player/lan version of it either if it's pay-to-play -- no, i didn't forget the 'F's http://www.geocities.com/jerk_o2002 http://www.geocities.com/nameless_mod -My Diablo 2 Mod http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php -My theme song > >Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And it wouldn't suprise me if there wasn't a single player/lan version > of it either if it's pay-to-play I will know soon enough, as I am will be beta testing it. Mickey >>> Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I will know soon enough, as I am will be beta testing it. Let me know if spearazons are a viable build ;) Signature-- * Meow. Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk > >>> Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Let me know if spearazons are a viable build ;) Let me know if they fix Fend in D3 ;-) Regards, Jamie Kahn Genet SignatureIf you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. >> >Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote: >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I will know soon enough, as I am will be beta testing it. How much will you be at liberty to tell us? -- Roy L >>> >Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote: >>> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >How much will you be at liberty to tell us? Or have you already passed the limit ;^) -- Roy L >> >> What you believe is pretty f.cking irrelevant, beta testing on D3 will >> >> start witrhin the next 30 days or so. I wouldn't say so unless I knew [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I will know soon enough, as I am will be beta testing it. You mean to tell me there is no announcement from Blizzard about a game that is about to reach beta status? No hint on their d2-website? Nothing on some unofficial d2-websites? Nothing at all except you stating you will be beta tester? And, somewhat even more surprisingly, noone here seems to doubt that. Well, I do. While I still wish that you will prove me wrong, I can't believe you. I can't believe there's d3 on the way. The only thing I can imagine is that some former d2-developers formed a new company to make d3, so Blizzard isn't involved. CA. (And I see no need to use words like "f.cking" to express one's opinion.) > (And I see no need to use words like "f.cking" to express one's > opinion.) Really? Then you're mising out on a whole area of self-expression. Loosen up man. Granted, when over-used it becomes vulgar and pointless. However, for when you really want to punctuate that point, it's hard to beat. SignatureShaun. >> (And I see no need to use words like "f.cking" to express one's >> opinion.) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > pointless. However, for when you really want to punctuate that point, > it's hard to beat. Well, f.ck fuckety f.ck f.ck f.ck. ;) Signature-- * Meow. Yahoo: evilbill_agqx Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk >> (And I see no need to use words like "f.cking" to express one's >> opinion.) > > Really? Then you're mising out on a whole area of self-expression. Loosen > up man. Granted, when over-used it becomes vulgar and pointless. However, > for when you really want to punctuate that point, it's hard to beat. No offense, but ... it's interesting that you avoid to comment on this whole issue and instead choose to comment on this. I mean Mickey says D3 is on the way! Diablo 3! All our (at least some of my) dreams would come true! Isn't that the game everyone here is waiting for? To come back to your point: Yes, I simply dislike to read that something is "f.cking irrelevant", even more if that something is my opinion ;-) The same could be said in a much smoother way. I don't know how the word is used outside Germany (where I live) but here it is somewhat harsh. CA. > > > (And I see no need to use words like "f.cking" to express one's > > > opinion.) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > says D3 is on the way! Diablo 3! All our (at least some of my) dreams > would come true! Isn't that the game everyone here is waiting for? Aw man, not another poster having a go at me over what issues I choose to address! I had a major problem with this last week in another group. Anyway, the reason I chose not to comment (rather than "avoid to comment", there's a big difference) is that I didn't see anything to comment on. You disbelieve Mickey and basically call him a liar. If there was anything to comment on IMO it's you calling someone a liar, something that's not common in this (mostly) friendly group. As for me, if Mickey says he's beta-testing D3 then I'm inclined to believe him. If he says it twice then I don't doubt him at all. I mean, time will tell huh? You're going to look silly and have to issue an apology when D3 is officially announced aren't you? > To come back to your point: Yes, I simply dislike to read that > something is "f.cking irrelevant", even more if that something is my > opinion ;-) Well let's be realistic here, your opinion has *absolutely* no bearing on whether something actually exists does it? I mean, you could say that you have an Aston Martin DB9 and my opinion could be that you don't and that you are a liar. As you can see, my opinion is actually "f.cking irrelevant", (opinions often are when you're dealing with facts). You either do or you don't have the Aston, it's not a matter of opinion. > The same could be said in a much smoother way. I don't > know how the word is used outside Germany (where I live) but here it > is somewhat harsh. That's one of the difficulties of usenet, there are people from different cultures, with different mores, all communicating. There are bound to be differing ways that words or expressions are percieved, (as can be seen by Evil Bill's comment). What is fairly innocuous in one culture could be a deadly insult in another. Most usenet posters are awar |
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