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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / Diablo / January 2006Ramping up for the uberthon
Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in the D keys. She got 13 today in limited play, along with a few decent socketed armors and a perfect fire facet. I am going to keep going until I have 10 or 15 full sets, and then we can go nucking futs in UT :) Mickey >Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Mickey Do you guys do this often?? I have 5 wimpy Hate keys to donate to the fund. Paine >>Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >>really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Do you guys do this often?? I have 5 wimpy Hate keys to donate to the > fund. Once a week or so we get masochistic and run UT 4 or 8 times in a row. Mickey > Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has > really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mickey Would u share the build details w/us? Or did you already... >> Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >> really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Would u share the build details w/us? Or did you already... Just a straight lightning trapper. All her lightning traps are maxed out, which puts her DS and LS at level 37. She has one point in all the skills needed to get a shadow master and fade. On the switch, she has Naj's Puzzler. Start a game, cast the master, cast Burst of Speed and head down. Take the .1 seconds to recognize which of the 3 maps I have then start running. When I encounter any traffic, I teleport over it and I am at the stairs down in either 2,4 or 7 hops (map dependant) and down I go. The only real issue then is snakes, as they are LI. However, that stupid little fire bomb, now fully synergized, does 833 damage so I can bomb one to death and DS will get the rest. Mickey >Just a straight lightning trapper. All her lightning traps are maxed out, >which puts her DS and LS at level 37. She has one point in all the skills [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >bomb, now fully synergized, does 833 damage so I can bomb one to death and >DS will get the rest. You should've maxed Fire Bomb instead of one of the lesser Lightning traps, then it does about 3-4k damage, and still fully synergizes the useful lightning traps. Regards, Patrick. >>Just a straight lightning trapper. All her lightning traps are maxed out, >>which puts her DS and LS at level 37. She has one point in all the skills [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > traps, then it does about 3-4k damage, and still fully synergizes the > useful lightning traps. I don't really need it though. For what I built her to do, she does it quite efficiently. I was really torn as to whether to bother with the SM, as I HATE mind blast. Mickey >>>bomb, now fully synergized, does 833 damage so I can bomb one to death and >>>DS will get the rest. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >efficiently. I was really torn as to whether to bother with the SM, as I >HATE mind blast. Mine was built as a generic PvM build, intended to solo the entire game. And believe me, you really, REALLY want a strong Shadow Master when confronting the Hell Ancients. ;) I also think the AI on the Shadow Master is pretty OK. She doesn't cast Mind Blast of her own when there are a manageable number of monsters in view, but just Dragon Tails towards them, kicking their butt. Only when I run into a large pack of monsters, does she start spammin a few Mind Blasts, and I don't mind them in that case: they take the heat of my little party, and when they are released from the incluence of Mind Blast, I usually have 5 Death Sentries on the ready, and plenty of corpses to take care of 'em... Also, you encounter plenty of LI immunes in Hell, so you need a strong secondary attack. Fire Bomb is very good at that, while simultaneously boosting the traps' damage also. Anyway, when taking her into the HoP and beyond, it surprised me how well she handled herself there. But whenever I spot those snakes, it's ALERT time, and I do my best to take 'em down ASAP, and explode their corpses, while teleporting back a bit to at least remove the merc from the 'heat'. Did you park a 2nd (or even 3rd) character in every Nihlatak-running game you started, or was it a single player game? 13 keys from ~50 runs is still an incredible score. I don't do that much runs, but I think over the last few days I've done about 15 runs, and got 0 keys. Regards, Patrick. I think his sasin was built as a specialist. Nilly and nilly and nilyy and then some nilly. And then some more nilly. After that some nilly. I have the feeling that the rest of Hell be damned in the sasin's eyes. I could be wrong. But I am probably right. Orion >I think his sasin was built as a specialist. Nilly and nilly and nilyy >and then some nilly. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >But I am probably right. I think it's a suboptimal Trapassin build, even with Nihlatak as it's sole target. The only monster which is dangerous there is the bugged Tomb Viper. It's Lightning Immune, and kills any minion in very short order. The Trapassin's only stand-off weapon against them is her Fire Bomb. He should have maxed it, so the Death Sentry can detonate that first body to hopefully take out his buddies before they can take down the merc and/or Shadow Master. Not quite coincidentally, the monsters he apparently aborted two (of the 52) runs for (Frenzytaur-types) are in the HoP level, and are also Lightning immune. A piddly 833 dmg Fire Bomb does nothing to them. A 3-4k Fire Bomb however, will take them down quite easily, followed by the plop-plop-pop of the Death Sentries doing their job and taking the rest of the pack down. He should also consider using a Treachery runeword armor, if he is not already doing so. It's one of the few useful runewords introduced in 1.11, especially on the class where it's +2 skills also shine. Anyway, Mickey seems to be happy with her as is, partly because a Trapassin is a very versatile and powerful build, and he's also bound to gain some more levels with her on subsequent Nihlatak runs (the exp gained really starts slowing down at clvl89), so perhaps he could put a few points more in Fire Bomb, to take down those snakes quicker. This still does not explain 13 Keys in 50 runs, so if there's a secret to that, I'm curious. Should I strip off the (already minimal) MF I have on my Trapassin? Regards, Patrick. 13 D keys in one day = sub-optimal? Besides the Vipers I consider the corpses in Nilly's room to be dangerous. Mick likes rate of return. Or at least that's what it looks like to me. And it looks to me like the RoR is pretty damn good. Bnet might be sending him a 1099 for those gains. Orion >13 D keys in one day = sub-optimal? I was talking about the build, not the result. Please consider quoting what you're replying to in the future. I'm also still curious how he get those 13 D-keys from 50 successful, finished runs. >Besides the Vipers I consider the corpses in Nilly's room to be >dangerous. You have very little to fear from them when the Death Sentries are blazing. >Mick likes rate of return. Or at least that's what it looks like to me. > >And it looks to me like the RoR is pretty damn good. > >Bnet might be sending him a 1099 for those gains. Whatever... Regards, Patrick. Micky's build sounds like my AngelicSins build, max LS, DS and synergies, max FB and synergies, 1 in prereq's for Blade Sheild and Shadow Master. This is a great build for me also. For key running, I can use burst of speed and litterally run by whole packs of monsters before they even 'wake up'. A few faster run/walk charms can add a boost too. I've found that burst of speed not only increased run/walk, but also trap casting and fire blast throwing, both are accellerated. I too start game with casting Shadow Master for diversion and Bos for speed, but also use Blade Shield, if you do run into a pack and get surrounded, blade shield has knockback effect to disrupt them long enough to tele away. For Nilly, DS is the 'bomb', actually, I've found that I can play pretty relaxed relying exclusively on DS during key running. Scott Oh yeah, I'm not even in the same league as some of you guys, but must have done close to 50 runs on nilly in the last few weeks, and I've yet to score a single key. I've run with MF gear, battle gear, combos, and zilch. What's the secret? Scott (( did score a gladiator's bane wire fleece from hell baal though! :) )) > Oh yeah, I'm not even in the same league as some of you guys, but must > have done close to 50 runs on nilly in the last few weeks, and I've yet [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > (( did score a gladiator's bane wire fleece from hell baal though! :) )) For me, it seems there are windows during which they drop. You will go for a while and get squat, and then suddenly, in a matter of 6 or 8 games, you will get 3 or 4 keys. If you do 8-10 games and then quit, you'll likely not to run into one of these periods. Mickey > Micky's build sounds like my AngelicSins build, max LS, DS and > synergies, max FB and synergies, 1 in prereq's for Blade Sheild and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > For Nilly, DS is the 'bomb', actually, I've found that I can play > pretty relaxed relying exclusively on DS during key running. I walk slowly, casting LS in front of me. I will cast 5 in a cluster, wait a second, cast ONE DS in the same spot and walk ahead and plop another 5 LS. I am basically plowing the road ahead of me. As I said, any faster and I get IP banned for looking to much like a pindlebot. Mickey >>13 D keys in one day = sub-optimal? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'm also still curious how he get those 13 D-keys from 50 successful, > finished runs. 17 in 80 runs now. Do I need to post a screenshot? >>Besides the Vipers I consider the corpses in Nilly's room to be >>dangerous. > > You have very little to fear from them when the Death Sentries are > blazing. As I said, I don't use DS much, I use my 8K LS and the fact that I ean take 3 direct hits from his CE without dying. Mickey >> I'm also still curious how he get those 13 D-keys from 50 successful, >> finished runs. > >17 in 80 runs now. Do I need to post a screenshot? I'm not doubting you have them, so I don't care about a screenshot. I just want to know if there's any difference between the runs I'm conducting, and the apparently lesser results from that. It apparently isn't a >1 player game, so perhaps the difference lies somewhere else, or you've just been exceptionally lucky. Please updates us on your scres at 100/200/300 runs. ;) I think I've posted enough questions which you _could_ answer, and which would be much more helpful than a screenshot. >>>Besides the Vipers I consider the corpses in Nilly's room to be >>>dangerous. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >As I said, I don't use DS much, I use my 8K LS and the fact that I ean take >3 direct hits from his CE without dying. So what are you using? 5 x LS, or 3/4 x LS backed up by one DS? When you're at or near the platform? Regards, Patrick. >>> I'm also still curious how he get those 13 D-keys from 50 successful, >>> finished runs. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > So what are you using? 5 x LS, or 3/4 x LS backed up by one DS? When > you're at or near the platform? If there are no snakes, I use pure LS. It simply kills faster. If there are snakes, I will plop a few DS and listen to hear if they popped. Take another step or two in and cast 5 more LS and wait for the music to stop. Once they stop firing, I know the area is safe. Mickey >>>> I'm also still curious how he get those 13 D-keys from 50 successful, >>>> finished runs. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Mickey How does DS get the snakes if they are LI? I have a pure trapper that does 5k LS damage at level 80 with 6 trap charms. She has all points into traps except a point in SM and weapon block plus prereqs. How did you get to 8k LS damage without trap charms? With all the LIs on the way to Nithilak, I am intrigued by the idea of using a trapper to get there but don't think I want to risk her unless I solve the LI problem. My FB does about 3k damage, but it still kills too slow for my taste in LI infested areas. I am still leaning towards trying my Summoner, Boner, or Kicker. Convince me I am wrong. -Steve >>>>> I'm also still curious how he get those 13 D-keys from 50 successful, >>>>> finished runs. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > How does DS get the snakes if they are LI? The explosion is physical damage. > I have a pure trapper that does 5k LS damage at level 80 with 6 trap > charms. She has all points into traps except a point in SM and weapon > block plus prereqs. How did you get to 8k LS damage without trap charms? Level 37 LS. Not sure what other items you have. I have: +3 hat +3 ammy +3 weapon +1 armor +1 shield +1 belt +1 anihilus +3 torch +1 ring > With all the LIs on the way to Nithilak, I am intrigued by the idea of > using a trapper to get there but don't think I want to risk her unless I > solve the LI problem. My FB does about 3k damage, but it still kills too > slow for my taste in LI infested areas. I am still leaning towards trying > my Summoner, Boner, or Kicker. Convince me I am wrong. The only LIs I have to deal with is the snakes. I don't fight anything on the levels on the way. I teleport over any issues. Mickey >> How does DS get the snakes if they are LI? > >The explosion is physical damage. Actually, I presume the CE on DS is, apart from the percentage of the corpse's life converted to damage, same in all other respects, so it does 50/50 fire/physical damage? >> I have a pure trapper that does 5k LS damage at level 80 with 6 trap >> charms. She has all points into traps except a point in SM and weapon [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >+3 torch >+1 ring Ah, so you got an SOJ/BK on her in the mean time? >> With all the LIs on the way to Nithilak, I am intrigued by the idea of >> using a trapper to get there but don't think I want to risk her unless I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The only LIs I have to deal with is the snakes. I don't fight anything on >the levels on the way. I teleport over any issues. Well, seee my other post, I can't put myself to skipping over issues, I deal with 'em ;), and she does just fine: Fire Bomb, together with a powerful Shadow Master (I think mine is ~lvl19 or something, I'd have to check) and a well-equipped merc is more than adequate to deal with the LI immunes on the way to Nihlatak. Just try it... What's the worst that could happen (unless Steve's playing HC...)? Regards, Patrick. >>> How does DS get the snakes if they are LI? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > corpse's life converted to damage, same in all other respects, so it does > 50/50 fire/physical damage? Not from what I can see. I tested it around some PIs, and it seemed they took NO damage at all. >>> I have a pure trapper that does 5k LS damage at level 80 with 6 trap >>> charms. She has all points into traps except a point in SM and weapon [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Ah, so you got an SOJ/BK on her in the mean time? A little BK. I got it cheap, as most who want it want the life leech, I couldn't care less about it all I wanted was +1 skills and the life. Actually, I traded 3 keys (one of each) for it :) >>> With all the LIs on the way to Nithilak, I am intrigued by the idea of >>> using a trapper to get there but don't think I want to risk her unless I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Just try it... What's the worst that could happen (unless Steve's playing > HC...)? I avoid it not because I cannot handle it, but because it would slow me down. All I want is to get to and kill Nilly has often and as fast as I can. Mickey >>>The explosion is physical damage. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Not from what I can see. I tested it around some PIs, and it seemed they >took NO damage at all. Well, and I've used it extensively around FI's, and there it also does very little damage. PI undergo the same diminishing effect. I've also Googled for it, but found nothing which says it's physical damage only. If/when a guide or webpage goes into the details, they say it's 50/50 physical/fire damage, just like the regular necro's CE. >> Ah, so you got an SOJ/BK on her in the mean time? > >A little BK. I got it cheap, as most who want it want the life leech, I >couldn't care less about it all I wanted was +1 skills and the life. >Actually, I traded 3 keys (one of each) for it :) It never ceases to amaze me how dirt-cheap stuff on the US Servers is. >> Well, seee my other post, I can't put myself to skipping over issues, I >> deal with 'em ;), and she does just fine: Fire Bomb, together with a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I avoid it not because I cannot handle it, but because it would slow me >down. All I want is to get to and kill Nilly has often and as fast as I can. To each his own... Regards, Patrick. >>>>The explosion is physical damage. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If/when a guide or webpage goes into the details, they say it's 50/50 > physical/fire damage, just like the regular necro's CE. And yet I see no evidence of that in the play. From what I see, the damage is physical only. I too have read where it is claimed to be just like the necro's CE, but with CE, I can see the damage done to PIs, here I see nothing. Maybe all the PIs I am running into are also FR? >>> Ah, so you got an SOJ/BK on her in the mean time? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It never ceases to amaze me how dirt-cheap stuff on the US Servers is. It's a HUGE pool of players, so the odds of running into someone who is really desperate/stupid are fairly high :) >>> Well, seee my other post, I can't put myself to skipping over issues, I >>> deal with 'em ;), and she does just fine: Fire Bomb, together with a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > To each his own... I tend to be a VERY focused person. When, in 1.09, I decided I wanted a Windforce, I did 100 Baal runs a day with my Amazon, and did it for 3 months until I got one (well, 3 actually), and when I run for keys, I run for keys. Anything else is superfluous. Mickey >> Well, and I've used it extensively around FI's, and there it also does >> very little damage. PI undergo the same diminishing effect. I've also [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >necro's CE, but with CE, I can see the damage done to PIs, here I see >nothing. Maybe all the PIs I am running into are also FR? I have no idea; if/when I have some time, I'll try to find a few isolated PI monsters, and see what it does to them. But it'd surprise me a lot if Blizzard invented an entire 'new' type of CE for the Death Sentry, and make it physical-only damage... But I cannot recollect having big problems around PI monsters; they certainly went down with big groups at the same time once the DS's CEs start plopping. >> It never ceases to amaze me how dirt-cheap stuff on the US Servers is. > >It's a HUGE pool of players, so the odds of running into someone who is >really desperate/stupid are fairly high :) Yeah. I should still try to determine my pings on the US East servers, to see if that's more manageable. I must say I rather like the ~30-50ms pings I get to the Eur servers... >>>I avoid it not because I cannot handle it, but because it would slow me >>>down. All I want is to get to and kill Nilly has often and as fast as I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >until I got one (well, 3 actually), and when I run for keys, I run for keys. >Anything else is superfluous. I know, plenty of your other 'projects' have shown tide. My respect for that. I simply can't do that. I have the same problem when doing Countess runs. If I encounter a nasty boss-pack on the way there, or a nice big Carver camp, I make a temporary stop to blast 'em away. And when in Lvl 5 of the Cellars, I also always check to see what the armor and weapon rack in one of the side-chambers drops, because I've had an ethereal elite polearm from one of those once before. Each only adds a few seconds at most, but it all adds up. ;) Anyway, as long as we're both (or all, to make it more generic) enjoying our playing styles, who cares what we do and how we do it? :) Regards, Patrick. >>> Well, and I've used it extensively around FI's, and there it also does >>> very little damage. PI undergo the same diminishing effect. I've also [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > polearm from one of those once before. Each only adds a few seconds at > most, but it all adds up. ;) Oh, now and again I stop to paste a colored monster. I just fight the urge well :) > Anyway, as long as we're both (or all, to make it more generic) enjoying > our playing styles, who cares what we do and how we do it? :) Exactly. Mickey >>> How does DS get the snakes if they are LI? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > corpse's life converted to damage, same in all other respects, so it does > 50/50 fire/physical damage? Hmm. Ok, but how do you get the first explosion if the room is full on LIs? AFAIK, it is 50/50, but it might not deliver the fire damage if the monster is PI. >>> I have a pure trapper that does 5k LS damage at level 80 with 6 trap >>> charms. She has all points into traps except a point in SM and weapon [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Ah, so you got an SOJ/BK on her in the mean time? My slvl 38 LS does 1-5714, quite a ways from 8k. My CBS is maxed, FB is maxed, 15 in SW, and about 5 in DS. I could realistically pour about 10 more points into synergies as she matures, but that won't get me close to 8k. What am I missing? >>> With all the LIs on the way to Nithilak, I am intrigued by the idea of >>> using a trapper to get there but don't think I want to risk her unless I [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Patrick. I have the same mental block that Patrick has. I cannot seem to get myself to skip packs unless they are unkillable. I'll even blow 15 minutes to clear some Fanat enhanced minatours if I think I can kill them. It is partly for compulsive reasons and partly because I don't want to be caught between two dangerous packs. I just have to have a path of retreat. Never playing sorcs may be part of my problem. And yes, it's HC so the trial and error path is not an option. thanks for the tips -Steve >>>> How does DS get the snakes if they are LI? >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >AFAIK, it is 50/50, but it might not deliver the fire damage if the monster >is PI. Well, I use Fire Bomb for taking on LIs which are not FI. And then there's the Merc and Shadow Master, which can hopefully take down one monsters, after which the Death Sentry's CE does the rest. >My slvl 38 LS does 1-5714, quite a ways from 8k. My CBS is maxed, FB is >maxed, 15 in SW, and about 5 in DS. I could realistically pour about 10 >more points into synergies as she matures, but that won't get me close to >8k. What am I missing? I think Mickey put less points in a skill like the Shadow Master, and instead put these in one of the Lightning traps. I presume he maxed DS, LS, CBS, and SW (80 points in total), with preciously little left for other skills. That way you can get a 8k dmg LS. I'm not sure what my Trapper does, can perhaps look it up later this evening... >I have the same mental block that Patrick has. I cannot seem to get myself >to skip packs unless they are unkillable. I'll even blow 15 minutes to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >playing sorcs may be part of my problem. And yes, it's HC so the trial and >error path is not an option. Ah, yes, I see why you're being careful. The bugged Tomb Vipers are not something to 'experiment' with in HC. Despite having done 10s of runs there with my Trapper, I got killed a few days ago, by not paying enough attention, and walking into a rather nasty, hidden, poison-cloud leftover from one of those Vipers. Life bulb went from full to empty in a fraction of a second... >thanks for the tips > >-Steve No problem, Patrick. [on the Trapasin soapbox] Diddo to Patrick and Micky on Trapasin, love my Angelicsins. A point Mickey was leading up to in a previous post, is that you really get double the range you get from ordinary missle type weaps or minions. Throw a trap at the perimeter of the screen, and it stays put, firing another screen over, while keeping you out of harms way. I use FB on left button, DS on right. Throw 5 DS, then rapid fire FB, everything is toasted before I even get there. Another thing is that you minions(merc and shadow master) 'home in' on the traps, so if they are wandering, thow a trap to rein them back in. As far as immunes, even LI and FI recieve 'splash' damage from FB, so they only bog you down a little As far as running Nilly, I can tele from WP in lvl 2 to the stairs in lvl 3 in 2 seconds, then tank my way though to Nilly. Scott > [on the Trapasin soapbox] > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > As far as running Nilly, I can tele from WP in lvl 2 to the stairs in > lvl 3 in 2 seconds, then tank my way though to Nilly. Exactly. Naj's Puzzler is the bomb. Mickey >>>> How does DS get the snakes if they are LI? >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > LIs? AFAIK, it is 50/50, but it might not deliver the fire damage if the > monster is PI. First corpse is a combo of FB, SM and Merc. >>>> I have a pure trapper that does 5k LS damage at level 80 with 6 trap >>>> charms. She has all points into traps except a point in SM and weapon [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > more points into synergies as she matures, but that won't get me close to > 8k. What am I missing? I am fully synergized, my DS is maxed. >>>> With all the LIs on the way to Nithilak, I am intrigued by the idea of >>>> using a trapper to get there but don't think I want to risk her unless [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > thanks for the tips I used to be like that, then I taught myself to deal with the task at hand. If I am running the countess, I run the countess. If I am running Nilly, I go after him. Mickey Patrick wrote : > I'm also still curious how he get those 13 D-keys from 50 successful, > finished runs. I have no doubt he got those 13 d keys. Key drops can be very streaky. How to get on a hot streak ? I have no clue. I hope Mickey does, and that he's willing to share. I did a run of 38 games on Monday - going after all 3 key targets. It wasn't until the 38th game that I saw my first Terror key. And I had just one Hate up to that point as well. But Nihlathak had dropped 8 Destructions, including the one 2-key drop. I think 10 keys in 114 opportunities (3x38) is about average for solo games. I was just lucky the majority were the most valuable key. Robert An amuzing story to throw in: After helping Deadhead raise an army for Uncle John's Band Rob would Tp the troupe to the WP in the halls. Then he would head off to the countess and summoner.At first he was getting to my location before I reached nilly's floor. This inspired me to get my act together and move a little quicker and learn the tricks of proper necroing. Finally DeadHead would travel the course to Nilly's hall and open a tp at the stairs and tell Rob which leg nilly was on and continue my trek. Rob would pop through the tp and reach nilly while I was still out in the large chamber. One time I almost made it to Nilly before him. I learned the ropes and it was due to making a game out of "beating" Rob to Nilly. Even though I was unable to, it improved my speed of moving the necro along in that area. Of course the kids were taking up some of my time asking for juice, milk and snacks and this took me away from the walk by a little bit and I was pleading with them to let me finish the walk before getting them their goodies. A few times I practiced the tele and that was when I made it closer to Nilly. Given the potential rate that someone can get there some people could retire from their RL job and make a good living key running. Orion > >13 D keys in one day = sub-optimal? > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Patrick. Ahhh, I see. You were saying that you were impressed because he had accomplished the feat with what you considered to be a sub-optimal build. Okay. Perhaps we could call his sasin MiddleClassGirl to keep with the Poorman theme. Orion >> >13 D keys in one day = sub-optimal? >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Perhaps we could call his sasin MiddleClassGirl to keep with the > Poorman theme. Finding more keys than unusual on a shorther period of time is not really relevant to the point Patrick has pointed out. I did not play an Asn for a long time now but I would have never considered maxing Fire Blast for a Death Sentry Asn. I would have follow the regular Death Sentry built so this tip is a gem for a more balance Asn over a lightning only one. I also think your post is a little bit arrogant since you do not encourage people to post about a better built but rather to put down Patrick's point of view. Did you know that Fire Blast will also add more shots to the DS since I just read about it at the Arreat Summit? Did you learn something about may be maxing Fire Blast for a more versatile DS built? I did and this is what a NG should be about, sharing information even if people disagree with each other. I learned a great tip about FB in this thread from Patrick but what did I learned from you beside you are fully backing Mickey? Nothing about the game. It is true you were rushed and fully equipped by Mickey which put you in conflict of interest. ;oP So please if you enter a discussion about an Asn, do not act like an a.s. ;oP VD > >> >13 D keys in one day = sub-optimal? > >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Death Sentry Asn. I would have follow the regular Death Sentry built so this > tip is a gem for a more balance Asn over a lightning only one. Hmm, I'd say this just means that Mickey's build could probably be called a "patented" build. He built it for a purpose and the purpose is achieved. I think a better remark would have been "Great job and this changes my original idea that the build was sub-optimal". Or "at first appearance this build sounds sub-optimal but the results indicate that it is not". I am sure that would have painted a clearer picture to me as to what he meant. > I also think your post is a little bit arrogant since you do not encourage > people to post about a better built but rather to put down Patrick's point [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > this is what a NG should be about, sharing information even if people > disagree with each other. I can encourage other people to post "another" build. And by this I am not implying that Mickey's build is the best. But I am implying that Mickey's build is "perfect enough" especially for him. As an allegorical example there's no point in telling someone whose has a dead gorgeous beautiful wife who can cook, clean, handle the kids, handle money, work a job, engage in super duper bedroom activities and thinks the world of her husband that she sounds sub-optimal because the reason she drinks Miller Light is because it's less filling rather than that it tastes good. > I learned a great tip about FB in this thread from Patrick but what did I > learned from you beside you are fully backing Mickey? Nothing about the > game. It is true you were rushed and fully equipped by Mickey which put you > in conflict of interest. ;oP Well actually my zon did not get a rush from Mickey nor from anybody. I like the challenge for the most part. I am very proud of that girl. So is Clan Shythed. She is certainly a credit to her clan. And she is a very humble girl too. But my chanter did get a rush once she maxed her Chant and synergies but the only reason I did this was so that I would have a Cow Opener who could leave after opening and give me an infinite supply of Cow Level runs for my zon if need be, because my two year old loves to watch me "Kick cow's butt". My only other character, Sam-Kinison did get a teemy bit of a rush from Mick and will likely get equipped by Mickey but I have nothing to prove with this guy and a SamKinison build in an earlier incarnation has soloed Hell with crap gear and even the Hell Ancients as well as another incarnation sitting in hardcore hell act 2 at level 73. Sam has nothing to aspire for except the need to go to UT and to advance further in hardcore and now I don't have the patience to walk him all the way through to UT. So essentially there are times when I humbly "demand" a rush for someone like him. Besides the sooner I can get him through the better, for there are family issues at stake, that being that my wife will be able to play my zon with us while I bring in screaming Sam and the two of us can be a happily married couple in UT "Kicking monster butt". Now I think the kids would love to watch mommy and daddy tripping the light fantastic in UT together. Mickey and I are friends and friends don't kiss up to one another. They have transcended that aspect and kissing up is not even an issue. > So please if you enter a discussion about an Asn, do not act like an a.s. LOL!! One of the things I try to point out to people and also ask forgiveness for is that sometimes I, or even anyone else for that matter, can appear to be acting like an a.s, even if they are not trying as well as even if they are not. Me acting like an a.s in this thread? I demand a second opinion!! Orion Still laughing! > ;oP > > VD >> Finding more keys than unusual on a shorther period of time is not really >> relevant to the point Patrick has pointed out. I did not play an Asn for a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >it is not". I am sure that would have painted a clearer picture to me >as to what he meant. Hmmm, no, I'm not convinced that's the case. Despite jumping/teleporting over 'issues' in the HoP, he still has to deal with any bugged Tomb Vipers which are near, or at, Nihlatak's platform. Any of the Lightning traps does nothing to them, he has as far as I can determine not that high a level Shadow Master (so she's not more than a useful distraction, but problably not a killer), and his merc (whom you cannot really steer). However, teleporting across Tomb Viper, or just ignoring them, still works fine. I can however think of situations where a bigger Fire Bomb would've helped (for instance if the two small passages leading to Nihlatak's platform are both filled with Tomb Vipers), without taking away any of the other virtues of this build. Anyway, I think Mickey himself already indicated he was busy boosting the Fire Bomb with any skill points he still gains... Anyway, the build works, which is another big indicator a Trapassin is a very powerful and versatile build. I can anyone reading this heartily advise to build and play one themselves, solo, without rushes, and see how she holds herself. It's a fun character to play, and the Shadow Master is a very entertaining minion... And do keep the Fire Bomb tip in the back of your head, because one of the earlier quests in Act 1 Hell will show you quite quickly that another attack besides the lightning traps is very, very useful... ;) [big snippage] Regards, Patrick. >>> Finding more keys than unusual on a shorther period of time is not >>> really [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > quite quickly that another attack besides the lightning traps is very, > very useful... ;) Oh, I don't teleport past vipers. I teleport down TO Nilly's level, but then I clear the one arm that he is on. I FB the vipers a little, but mainly I kill them by leading them back to where I have corpses (as I kill with LS not DS, that's never far) and then blowing their a.ses to hell. It may not be the MOST efficient way, but I am pushing the boundaries of an IP ban as it is, any faster would be trouble. Mickey >Oh, I don't teleport past vipers. I teleport down TO Nilly's level, but then >I clear the one arm that he is on. I FB the vipers a little, but mainly I >kill them by leading them back to where I have corpses (as I kill with LS >not DS, that's never far) and then blowing their a.ses to hell. It may not >be the MOST efficient way, but I am pushing the boundaries of an IP ban as >it is, any faster would be trouble. Which is why a bit slower killing speed isn't too bad for you due to the IP bans when creating too many games in a row. I fully understand that. However, when questing (and not creating umpteen games in a row), I think faster killing of dangerous LI immune monsters isn't too bad, which is what I'm trying to promote... Anyhow, I think I've made enough attempts to get this particular point across, so I think I'll stop promoting it... People: If you haven't already, just start your own Trapassin, she's actually *fun* to play (quest!) with, untwinked if you feel so inclined, as opposed to something like a Hammerdin (*yawn*)! Regards, Patrick. > >> Finding more keys than unusual on a shorther period of time is not really > >> relevant to the point Patrick has pointed out. I did not play an Asn for a [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Patrick. Yes, after all that is said it appears that there are variants suited to one's likings and needs. Like my WC barb. Usually I will only stuff one point in Battle Command. But this time my barb may end up slaving, which of course is needed more in HC than SC, but still I did it that way. Actually, this may make my War Cry barb more piddley-assed than his prior builds. S'okay, he loves a challenge. I think also builds changed due to uber-tristram and keys etc. Even desired characters. Cheers. Orion >> >> >13 D keys in one day = sub-optimal? >> >> [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > > Still laughing! You're laughing? I'm dying here..... the little a.shole attempts to vilify me by saying that I rushed you and equipped you and so on and so forth. MY GOD!!! I AM SO EVIL!!! Stop me before I help someone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mickey >> > Ahhh, I see. You were saying that you were impressed because he had >> > accomplished the feat with what you considered to be a sub-optimal [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > called a "patented" build. He built it for a purpose and the purpose is > achieved. This is not the point. It is about playing a LS/DS Asn with a skill that can kill LI with a Fire skill that synergize with the Lightning skill. It is not only about farming keys but even to play in any other places, in fact playing a Trap asn. > I think a better remark would have been "Great job and this > changes my original idea that the build was sub-optimal". Or "at first > appearance this build sounds sub-optimal but the results indicate that > it is not". I am sure that would have painted a clearer picture to me > as to what he meant. I was not talking about Mickey but about your opinion since I have read Mickey's point of view. I also never said it was not an efficient built since this is about how I would have buit mine. Also think about playing the Asn at any other places when there are LI monsters. >> I also think your post is a little bit arrogant since you do not >> encourage [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > not implying that Mickey's build is the best. But I am implying that > Mickey's build is "perfect enough" especially for him. Of course, if he can get the keys so it obviously works but it is still not the point. It is not about how the Asn can evitate the LI by running, teleporting or whatever, it is simply about building a better trapper to have more flexibillity in any part of the game. >> So please if you enter a discussion about an Asn, do not act like an a.s. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Still laughing! It was my intention. :))) VD >>I think his sasin was built as a specialist. Nilly and nilly and nilyy >>and then some nilly. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > hopefully take out his buddies before they can take down the merc and/or > Shadow Master. And this would differ from what I do exactly HOW? I can't do runs any faster than I already do them, as I get IP banned too soon. As it is I have to do Shenk and Eldritch every 5 or 6 games to slow it down. My merc dies once every 5 or 6 snake games. Mickey >> I think it's a suboptimal Trapassin build, even with Nihlatak as it's sole >> target. The only monster which is dangerous there is the bugged Tomb [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Shenk and Eldritch every 5 or 6 games to slow it down. My merc dies once >every 5 or 6 snake games. You have to use more Fire Bombs = More time to take down the snakes you do encounter. I do hope you're seeing im criticizing the build, not the person doing the build? If it works for you, fine, I'm just trying to point out it's weaknesses, which perhaps only surface when you use this specific build for other purposes. Still, with points diverted from Charged Bolt Sentry to Fire Bomb, she will also not become slower at what you're doing. Regards, Patrick. >>> I think it's a suboptimal Trapassin build, even with Nihlatak as it's >>> sole [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > encounter. I do hope you're seeing im criticizing the build, not the > person doing the build? Yes, but I wanted points for otehr things. It's not like my FB is not there, it is now up to lvl 25 and at the rate I am gaining XP it will probably end up at level 29 or so. > If it works for you, fine, I'm just trying to point out it's weaknesses, > which perhaps only surface when you use this specific build for other > purposes. Still, with points diverted from Charged Bolt Sentry to Fire > Bomb, she will also not become slower at what you're doing. Actually, just for the hell of it, I cleared both the WSK (Ball included) and the CS (BRC included) in a 2 player game without much of a sweat. Killing monsters who are immune to my primary (or only) attack is something I have little trouble with, as I have been doing it since D1. My monster of a Blizzard sorc could solo anywhere in the game with just her Blizzard and no back up. My current rocket sorc can do Countess runs fast enough to get IP banned for her efforts, even though the Countess herself is ALWAYS immune to me, being I am FB/GS and she is FI/CI. And just think of the fun!!!!! Mickey >> You have to use more Fire Bombs = More time to take down the snakes you do >> encounter. I do hope you're seeing im criticizing the build, not the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >it is now up to lvl 25 and at the rate I am gaining XP it will probably end >up at level 29 or so. Mine's lvl36, and synergized by a maxed CBS, LS and DS, and does 2930-3462 damage. Even Frenzytaurs in HoP are taken aback when I rain a bunch of these on their thick skulls. ;) >> If it works for you, fine, I'm just trying to point out it's weaknesses, >> which perhaps only surface when you use this specific build for other [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Actually, just for the hell of it, I cleared both the WSK (Ball included) >and the CS (BRC included) in a 2 player game without much of a sweat. Yup, with the right gear, a Trapassin is extremely powerful. I recently also demo-ed mine, and was surprised myself how little trouble she had in the areas I did demontrate her capabilities. I had of course tuned her a bit more since the first time I quested in these parts of the game... >Killing monsters who are immune to my primary (or only) attack is something >I have little trouble with, as I have been doing it since D1. My monster of >a Blizzard sorc could solo anywhere in the game with just her Blizzard and >no back up. My current rocket sorc can do Countess runs fast enough to get >IP banned for her efforts, even though the Countess herself is ALWAYS immune >to me, being I am FB/GS and she is FI/CI. And just think of the fun!!!!! Handy to have a nicely equipped merc with you, you mean? What's your trapassin merc using, and what's her other gear, besides the HotO, and stuff you already listed? Regards, Patrick. >>> You have to use more Fire Bombs = More time to take down the snakes you >>> do [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > damage. Even Frenzytaurs in HoP are taken aback when I rain a bunch of > these on their thick skulls. ;) I don't want to fight frenzytaurs, I want to teleport past them and get down to the business at hand, namely pounding Nilly for keys :) >>> If it works for you, fine, I'm just trying to point out it's weaknesses, >>> which perhaps only surface when you use this specific build for other [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the areas I did demontrate her capabilities. I had of course tuned her a > bit more since the first time I quested in these parts of the game... I haven't really, as I had her gear planned out before I left the Rogue Encampment for the first time :) >>Killing monsters who are immune to my primary (or only) attack is >>something [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Handy to have a nicely equipped merc with you, you mean? And SF. I blast anything that is trying to disuade Kenny from his task :) > What's your trapassin merc using, and what's her other gear, besides the > HotO, and stuff you already listed? Her merc is using the standard gear, Shaftstop, Insight and Tal's mask Me I am using the +3 hat, +3 100 life ammy, Hoto, Viper, P-diamond Lidless Wall, gloves and rings with resists/mana, Silkweave boots and Arachnid's. I have 2 trap charms, but I don't use them as they are overkill and I'd rather ahve the INV space free :) Mickey >> Mine's lvl36, and synergized by a maxed CBS, LS and DS, and does 2930-3462 >> damage. Even Frenzytaurs in HoP are taken aback when I rain a bunch of >> these on their thick skulls. ;) > >I don't want to fight frenzytaurs, I want to teleport past them and get down >to the business at hand, namely pounding Nilly for keys :) ;) Understood. Still, running UT has lost most of it's glamour for me, and the chars that need one, have a Torch, so I'm not that motivated anymore for gathering keys. >> Yup, with the right gear, a Trapassin is extremely powerful. I recently >> also demo-ed mine, and was surprised myself how little trouble she had in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I haven't really, as I had her gear planned out before I left the Rogue >Encampment for the first time :) A character can always be improved, especially a Trappassin: +2 skills armor, nice magic/rare +3 traps/+2 assa claws with +skills to the trap tree, 2 x SOJ.... On the other hand, there's a limit to that, when a character does what you want it to do, and nothing more. ;) >> Handy to have a nicely equipped merc with you, you mean? > >And SF. I blast anything that is trying to disuade Kenny from his task :) Well, there's not much SF on a trappassin? >> What's your trapassin merc using, and what's her other gear, besides the >> HotO, and stuff you already listed? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >have 2 trap charms, but I don't use them as they are overkill and I'd rather >ahve the INV space free :) Interesting choice of gear. Regards, Patrick. >>> Mine's lvl36, and synergized by a maxed CBS, LS and DS, and does >>> 2930-3462 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the chars that need one, have a Torch, so I'm not that motivated anymore > for gathering keys. Yeah, we have a larger crown on USWest, and as such a greater need for torches. Anyway, there is always the hunt for the perfect torch. Also, gathering keys has become fun in itself. >>> Yup, with the right gear, a Trapassin is extremely powerful. I recently >>> also demo-ed mine, and was surprised myself how little trouble she had [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > tree, 2 x SOJ.... On the other hand, there's a limit to that, when a > character does what you want it to do, and nothing more. ;) Exactly. Anything else might increase my skill level, but at a cost in resists or life I'm not willing to pay :) >>> Handy to have a nicely equipped merc with you, you mean? >> >>And SF. I blast anything that is trying to disuade Kenny from his task :) > > Well, there's not much SF on a trappassin? No, there is DS and an SM instead. As the old saying goes, where there's a will, there's a relative :) >>> What's your trapassin merc using, and what's her other gear, besides the >>> HotO, and stuff you already listed? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Interesting choice of gear. I just wanted her to have a ton of life and a ton of resists. She'd sitting on about 1900 life, which if I get in trouble becomes 3600 (cast OS) and max resists. Mickey Patrick Vervoorn , your post to alt.games.diablo is almost better than a suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH! >>But I am probably right. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > first body to hopefully take out his buddies before they can take down > the merc and/or Shadow Master. You're forgetting Cloak of Shadows, the most under-rated skill in the game, with the possible exception of telekinesis. Shuts down archers, gloams, snakes, blowpipe pygmies, harpies, mummies...extremely useful on Nilly's floor. Mine is almost the same build as Mickey's, with slightly worse gear (traps are at 35 instead), and laughs at Nilly runs. > Not quite coincidentally, the monsters he apparently aborted two (of > the 52) runs for (Frenzytaur-types) are in the HoP level, and are also > Lightning immune. A piddly 833 dmg Fire Bomb does nothing to them. A > 3-4k Fire Bomb however, will take them down quite easily, followed by > the plop-plop-pop of the Death Sentries doing their job and taking the > rest of the pack down. Frenzytaurs with red feet = run no matter WHAT build you are playing. > He should also consider using a Treachery runeword armor, if he is not > already doing so. It's one of the few useful runewords introduced in > 1.11, especially on the class where it's +2 skills also shine. Mine uses Treachery, as traps go by IAS and not FCR. With Fade, I don't need the resists from a Viper. > Frenzytaurs with red feet = run no matter WHAT build you are playing. Except a Freezealot with Drac's and a 4fpa. He *loves* killing those suckers. (Even though they're often CI) The merc doesn't always make it though, depending on how quickly the life tap kicks in.  Signature~misfit~ >> Frenzytaurs with red feet = run no matter WHAT build you are playing. > > Except a Freezealot with Drac's and a 4fpa. He *loves* killing those > suckers. (Even though they're often CI) The merc doesn't always make it > though, depending on how quickly the life tap kicks in. Skellimancers can usually chew through them, too. In fact, we go looking for them to make more Revives (at least the ones that aren't used to blow up the others). -- Zamboni > Patrick Vervoorn , your post to alt.games.diablo is almost better than a > suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH! [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> > Frenzytaurs with red feet = run no matter WHAT build you are playing. Except, as always, a meatgrinder. 60 minions and Decrep put a nasty cramp in their style. Mickey > You're forgetting Cloak of Shadows, the most under-rated skill in the > game, with the possible exception of telekinesis. Shuts down archers, > gloams, snakes, blowpipe pygmies, harpies, mummies...extremely useful on > Nilly's floor. Mine is almost the same build as Mickey's, with slightly > worse gear (traps are at 35 instead), and laughs at Nilly runs. J'aime bien ton tip concernant Cloak of Shadows car je joue HC. VD >Patrick Vervoorn , your post to alt.games.diablo is almost better than a >suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Nilly's floor. Mine is almost the same build as Mickey's, with slightly >worse gear (traps are at 35 instead), and laughs at Nilly runs. I usually heavily under-using such type of skills, I know. I've also played a Barbarian, but didn't bother much with the War Cry/Shout/etc skills. Same with Dim Vision on a necro, and the same also with Cloak of Shadows on my assasin: she has 1 point in it, but I rarely use it. However, I do read and learn, and spent one of the 3 skill points I had left on my assassin in Burst of Speed, and I like the increased speed it gives me. >> Not quite coincidentally, the monsters he apparently aborted two (of >> the 52) runs for (Frenzytaur-types) are in the HoP level, and are also [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >Frenzytaurs with red feet = run no matter WHAT build you are playing. Wussy! ;) I think it's a challenga to engage such packs of monsters. Anyhow, I think I've encountered a few of those, since I simply cannot put myself to teleporting over any trouble I encounter on my way to Nihlatak: I have an (uncontrollable ;) urge to clear the path, and only leave a bloody mess behind. It's surprising how well the Shadow Master is at stopping those guys in their tracks, of/when she gets that freezing kick/claw attack in. (I've never played an MA Assassin, so I don't know what the skill is called). Together with my merc and my Fire Bombs, the first body usually drops soon enough, and Death Sentry does the rest. >> He should also consider using a Treachery runeword armor, if he is not >> already doing so. It's one of the few useful runewords introduced in >> 1.11, especially on the class where it's +2 skills also shine. >> >Mine uses Treachery, as traps go by IAS and not FCR. With Fade, I don't >need the resists from a Viper. I have her Fire Resists maxed anyway, because it happens often enough I reach Nihlatak before the Fade on Treachery has triggered. Of course, with 1 point in Burst of Speed, spending another point on Fade is very tempting... Regards, Patrick. >>Patrick Vervoorn , your post to alt.games.diablo is almost better than a >>suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH! [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > left on my assassin in Burst of Speed, and I like the increased speed it > gives me. Especially for you, as you like fire bomb. We think of trappers as casters, but the game treats their traps as melee in that it seems the speed one casts at is based on IAS and not FCR (and yet, FCR affects the speed of teleporting) and if you cast BoS, you will fill the air with fire bombs :) Mickey >> However, I do read and learn, and spent one of the 3 skill points I had >> left on my assassin in Burst of Speed, and I like the increased speed it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >casts at is based on IAS and not FCR (and yet, FCR affects the speed of >teleporting) and if you cast BoS, you will fill the air with fire bombs :) Well, Treachery already provides a nice source of IAS, and I think I also chose to use rare gloves with resists and 20%IAS for that same reason. But yes, Fire Bomb throwing speed did increase a bit more, so it's useful for me to keep BoS on at all times. ;) Regards, Patrick. >>> However, I do read and learn, and spent one of the 3 skill points I had >>> left on my assassin in Burst of Speed, and I like the increased speed it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > yes, Fire Bomb throwing speed did increase a bit more, so it's useful for > me to keep BoS on at all times. ;) My gear is more devoted to FCR so that I can teleport in a flash. Also, I use a viper for the RA and MDR, along with the +1 skill. Mickey >>>>bomb, now fully synergized, does 833 damage so I can bomb one to death >>>>and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > And believe me, you really, REALLY want a strong Shadow Master when > confronting the Hell Ancients. ;) Nah, it was FAR easier my way.... I parked her in a dark corner and brought the AoD® to do the deed :) > I also think the AI on the Shadow Master is pretty OK. She doesn't cast > Mind Blast of her own when there are a manageable number of monsters in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I usually have 5 Death Sentries on the ready, and plenty of corpses to > take care of 'em... I rarely use DS. I use LS, and then maybe toss one or 2 DS in just to clean up. > Also, you encounter plenty of LI immunes in Hell, so you need a strong > secondary attack. Fire Bomb is very good at that, while simultaneously > boosting the traps' damage also. My backup attack is a merc, SM and DS :) > Anyway, when taking her into the HoP and beyond, it surprised me how well > she handled herself there. But whenever I spot those snakes, it's ALERT > time, and I do my best to take 'em down ASAP, and explode their corpses, > while teleporting back a bit to at least remove the merc from the 'heat'. I feed Kenny black pots and he does quite well. > Did you park a 2nd (or even 3rd) character in every Nihlatak-running game > you started, or was it a single player game? 13 keys from ~50 runs is > still an incredible score. I don't do that much runs, but I think over the > last few days I've done about 15 runs, and got 0 keys. Nope, just her. Today so far I have done ~30 runs and have annexed 4 more keys. Now shifting into Rocket mode ask I have too many D and not enough H and T, which is a welcome change. Key count in now: T: 11 H: 12 D: 17 I will get one more D, then catch up with T and H and I will be able to open the UT portal 6 times.... MUHAHAHAHAHAHA Mickey >>Just a straight lightning trapper. All her lightning traps are maxed out, >>which puts her DS and LS at level 37. She has one point in all the skills [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Regards, Great tip about Fire Bomb. VD >Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Mickey How many runs did it take you to get 13 Keys. the supposed drop rate for Keys is something like 1/34 I'm assuming you didn't do 442 runs cause at 20 runs max per hour that would take you about 22 hours of nonstop action. Does Magic Finding help with the appearance of Keys or did you just get really lucky today? I think it was Ser_Paine <IloveDiablo@home.com> that wrote something like... >>Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >>really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >nonstop action. Does Magic Finding help with the appearance of Keys >or did you just get really lucky today? The 1/34 is per drop, and they drop something like 5 things each time I believe. There is a chance of no drop which is why it's not always 5 items that drop. By running them in games with more characters in it, the no drop chance goes down, which gives you a slightly better chance of getting a key. The odds I've heard people calculate and experience seems to suggest is right, is roughly 1 in 9. So if you hit all 3 key holders every game, you should get a key roughly every 3 games. But random as the game is, you could end up getting 9 keys in 6 runs, or 1 key in 19 runs, or anything! And MF doesn't make the keys more likely to drop as it decides to drop them before it factors MF in. MF gets used after the game has already decided the base item type to drop. If the base type isn't a Pandemonium Key, then all the MF in the world won't help. Ashen Shugar SignatureThe lions sing and the hills take flight. The moon by day, and the sun by night. Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool. Let the Lord of Chaos rule! >>Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >>really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > nonstop action. Does Magic Finding help with the appearance of Keys > or did you just get really lucky today? Lots of assumptions here for correction: 1. The 1/34 is per drop, as he has multiple drops, it means about one key every 6-8 games. 2. 20 runs per hour assumes 3 minutes per run. Anyone on my friends list will tell you I do FAR better than that :) 3. I did about 50 runs, which took me less than 2 hours 4. MF does nothing, one way of the other for keys. On that subject, there is one common item that none of the key keepers can drop. When you figure out what that is, you too will know how key drops work :) Mickey - still loves a little mystery >>>Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >>>really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Mickey - still loves a little mystery Didn't know it was 1/34 per drop so that does cut down the odds. I got the 20 games per hour because I thought that bnet gives you a temp ban if you go over that. and last any clues as to what that one item is that they will not drop. mystery's nice and all but hey clues are fun also. I have a feeling that we are all making the mistake of looking at the high end with Nilly being level 93. And Micky being the sly dog that he is is laughing diabolical laughter right now knowing that we will not get it. I could cheat and look at the files but that would not be fair. Laugh away Micky, Orion >On that subject, there is one common item that none of the key keepers can >drop. When you figure out what that is, you too will know how key drops work >:) A Blinkbat's Form? ;-) >Mickey - still loves a little mystery Mystery shmystery... give us some more clues :-) Alan SignatureUSWest - SonofJorEl2-9 Non-Ladder SC No animals were harmed while writing this, although the cat in heat next door is living on borrowed time, let me tell you. >>On that subject, there is one common item that none of the key keepers can >>drop. When you figure out what that is, you too will know how key drops [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mystery shmystery... give us some more clues :-) Barney Mickey Mickey , your post to alt.games.diablo is almost better than a suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH! >>>On that subject, there is one common item that none of the key >>>keepers can drop. When you figure out what that is, you too will know [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mickey Full rejuv? > Mickey , your post to alt.games.diablo is almost better than a > suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH! [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> > Full rejuv? DING DING DING... we have a winner!!! This is especially noticable with the Summoner, whom you can see from his gold drops is not a boss, but a champion, and yet he NEVER drops a purple pot!!! Mickey >> Mickey , your post to alt.games.diablo is almost better than a >> suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH! [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Mickey so how does that relate to how key drops work? and have you ever gotten a unique item from those key droppers. >>> Mickey , your post to alt.games.diablo is almost better than a >>> suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > so how does that relate to how key drops work? The game goes through the normal drop routine, abd intercepts any purples and converts them to keys. > and have you ever gotten a unique item from those key droppers. Tons, especially from the Countess. Mickey >> so how does that relate to how key drops work? > >The game goes through the normal drop routine, abd intercepts any purples >and converts them to keys. Aha. And does MF have any influence of the chance of Full Rejuvs being dropped by the three Key-Cows? IIRC the item-drop-routes which have been described here before, the dropping of potions is not influenced by MF? But I could be very wrong... ;) Regards, Patrick. >>> so how does that relate to how key drops work? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Aha. And does MF have any influence of the chance of Full Rejuvs being > dropped by the three Key-Cows? No, I will explain farther down. > IIRC the item-drop-routes which have been described here before, the > dropping of potions is not influenced by MF? But I could be very wrong... > ;) MF affects drops (non end-act boss) in the following way. 1. The game decides IF to make a drop (MF not used) 2. The game decides which base item to drop (MF not used) 3. IF an item CAN me magical (not all have this choice, some can never be, like scrolls pots and keys, some ALWAYS are, like jewelry, charms and jewels), the game decides whether the item goes into the magic item creation routine. It is HERE that MF has its effect. That being the case, MF has no effect on runes, pots, regular keys, scrolls, THD keys becuase they are ONLY white, nor does it have any input for jewelry, charms or jewels, as they are perforce magical. Mickey >Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in >the D keys. She got 13 today in limited play, along with a few decent >socketed armors and a perfect fire facet. 13 D keys in one day?!?! Geez! How many runs? -- Roy L >>Well..... it seems my habit of building chars for specific purposes has >>really paid off this time. This little assassin of mine is just raking in >>the D keys. She got 13 today in limited play, along with a few decent >>socketed armors and a perfect fire facet. > > 13 D keys in one day?!?! Geez! How many runs? 52 that I did, 2 that I bailed on due to too many frenzytaurs on the way to the stairs. Mickey > <royls@telus.net> wrote in message > > 13 D keys in one day?!?! Geez! How many runs? > 52 that I did, 2 that I bailed on due to too many frenzytaurs on the way to > the stairs. Man, what *is* your secret? By my calculations that's one key per every 4 runs. The first time I started running Nilly it took 40+ runs for him to drop the first key. Last week I ran him for 3 hours straight with a teleporting character - not one key. Of course, I did run him once and got a key on the second run. But that key was lost in a most unfortunate YCHBI/GDNE muling incident that we won't discuss. I'm still in therapy. I just hate that dude. Or is it dud? -- Jill >> <royls@telus.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the first key. Last week I ran him for 3 hours straight with a > teleporting character - not one key. I got lucky for a short streak there. I got a key in 3 straight games, then 2 games later I got 2. Today, I ran 22 games without a key, and then 4 keys in the next 8 games. > Of course, I did run him once and got a key on the second run. But that > key was lost in a most unfortunate YCHBI/GDNE muling incident that we > won't discuss. I'm still in therapy. > > I just hate that dude. Or is it dud? Well, so do I. My sorc can get there in a second, but is VERY vulnerable My necro can chew him up, but takes forever to get there So.... I made this char for JUST this reason. I had the items (+3 hat, +3 100 life ammy, Hoto, arachnid's, etc) it was just a matter of getting the motivation. Once I got the assassin charm, I had my jump start and it only took about 8 hours to get her to level 80 or so. Mickey >> <royls@telus.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] |
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