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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / Diablo / September 2005The ladder and me
To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. Just after the reset, I reinstalled the game and started a fresh account beginning with a LF/FA amazon and a Fanatic/Zealot paladin. Originally, the plan was for only me to play the characters but my husband (AKA Tito) got re-interested in the game and took charge of the little pious fellow. We followed up those two with a necromancer (bone skills) and a concentrate barb as well as a saucy little Nova/Orb sorc on the side who played alone until Hell at which point the paladin became her green-aura-wearing companion. So far, all of these characters have been able to handle 1.11 solo with relative "ease" (that is, being careful and not expecting to annihilate everything in sight in 2 seconds) except the sorceress who seriously needs tanking when there are CIs around. I have found that having this particular set of characters works rather well for various areas and swapping them out based on the task at hand. For instance, (in hell level) the amazon clears the WSK 2 and 3 paths as well as the throne room up to the minions (this she can do alone but does faster with the Paladin on hand) then the paladin tanks Baal and the sorc kicks his a.s. Likewise, for hell Nilly, the zon can clear the way from a distance and the necro can blow things up real good. The barb can run the countess alone and is an all purpose tank but kills slower than the paladin at this time (though to be fair, the paladin has all the "uber gear" we've found so far...which isn't much considering we started clean when the ladder reset). We've got two of the three keys and are working up toward dealing with the first line of ubers for the first time. We will very likely be taking them on with two or three of our characters (played by Tito, my sister and I or just Tito and I) from the aforementioned stable. My question is, which duo or trio should be able to do it with relatively decent (but not exceptional) gear? Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Skip the section below if you don't want more details... ---------------------------------------------------------- If it helps to answer the question, here's the general gear situation: The paladin has Gore Riders, an um'ed Rockstopper, LoH, a unique legendary mallet I can't remember the name of, a Cat's Eye (to speed up the mallet), a Goldskin upgraded to exceptional (our plate drops have sucked), an SOE, a Dwarf Star and some adequate paladin shield. He has max conviction as well as max fanaticism and zeal. The barb is a relative poor boy with Nord's Tendorizer, a crafted blood Hell Forge plate (soon to be swapped out for an IK armor when he hits his 76th birthday), a 4 socket Pavise full of diamonds, Goblin Toes, a mid-roll Rockstopper, IK belt, LoH, and some rare rings and amulets. He has max BO, Concentrate, and points in NR. He also has about 14 points in the bank for his mastery at this point because I haven't chosen one yet (he's level 73). He has a Demon Limb Tyrant club thingy in the stash if he feels like running hot instead of cold. The necro has a runeword plate (which gives him +2 to skills, and +30 to all resists and has 2 ums in it but I can't remember the name - Bones?), that dagger with faster cast and 75% to all resists (can't recall the name-Spectral Shard?), a Homonculus, some wrym's rings (I think), caster boots & belt, and Frostburns. The necro is the character I haven't seen at all (he's all Tito's) so I'm not clear on his precise build except that he's maxed spear, spirit, has 10 in all curses with his gear on, and a fire golem. He also has bone armor but at relatively lowish level. I think Tito's building bone wall as a synergy at this point (the necro is around level 80 now). The amazon has unique matriarchal javs which run out every 2 seconds, a diadem with +2 to skills and random stats, a couple of mana leech rings, crafted blood gloves with +2 to jav and spear, crafted boots (caster ones, I think), and a Viper Magi. She has a mix of rare and magical amulets I put on her depending on my mood. Her bow is a rare shadow bow but she only uses it against LIs. I don't figure the amazon will factor much into fighting the ubers but someone can tell me if she has value in that regard. The sorc is also relatively poorly equipped though her resists are maxed when she uses a 3D shield instead of a Lidless Wall with a diamond. She also has a Vipermagi, a rare orb with resists and +2 to skills, Sazabi's helm (ugh), caster boots, caster gloves, and some rare/magical rings. Her static is level 15 at the moment though and she has max LM/Nova/FO. ---------------------------------------------------------- Shari (Orchid) While pondering glazed doughnuts Orchid <poza@gol.com> mistakenly typed : To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back : when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. : : Shari (Orchid) w00t! Shari's back! poza@gol.com (Orchid), in a display of leetness, fell down the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal... >To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back >when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. Hi Shari. Welcome. :-) I've never been to Uber Tristram myself, so I'll leave it to someone else to answer your questions, although by the sounds of it, the answer is probably that the zeal paladin (for laying the beatdown, or providing resist boosting aura(s) if he has them) and concentrate barbarian (for his battle orders) are the best available combination.  SignatureHamster-HC, level 19 Barbarian, West HCL CombatTwit, level 13 Barbarian, SPF single-tree tournament > poza@gol.com (Orchid), in a display of leetness, fell down the stairs, tripped > over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > providing resist boosting aura(s) if he has them) and concentrate barbarian > (for his battle orders) are the best available combination. I figured the barb would be pretty useful for his war cries but I don't know if I can get a fourth person in there to help (though I have been in contact with a certain wombat-stuffing looney recently). I've popped into a few AGD games, mainly to give away gear I don't need for my limited cast of characters but it seems most people aren't on the ladder now so I figured I'd build my own "team" and find friends to play them. Thanks for the advice and the welcome. Shari (Orchid) poza@gol.com (Orchid), in a display of leetness, fell down the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal... >I've popped into a few AGD games, mainly to give away gear I don't need >for my limited cast of characters but it seems most people aren't on the >ladder now so I figured I'd build my own "team" and find friends to play >them. Yes, it does seem that interest in the ladder has died down quite quickly, based on attendence in the AGD games. Or it could just be those funky timezones at work again. SignatureHamster-HC, level 19 Barbarian, West HCL CombatTwit, level 13 Barbarian, SPF single-tree tournament Heck, there was 7 of us in a hell game today :) Nice to see you again Shari Reg > Heck, there was 7 of us in a hell game today :) > > Nice to see you again Shari Nice to see you, too. :-) Unfortunately, I think the times when there are a lot of people from this group online, I'm either asleep or at work. Lately though, I've had to cut back on my already limited playing time because my wrist is totally screwed up. I guess even a few hours a day of Diablo is a lot of mousing around when you haven't been playing for awhile. I'm hoping it'll clear up in a week or so and that I'll run into you guys on weekends. As it was, last weekend, I resorted to playing in a public game to get my barb from level 84 to 85. It wasn't as bad as I expected because the person doing the runs was a paladin who used a teleport amulet to rush down to the throne area then tossed up a portal and that player was pretty competent though sorc players seemed to drop like flies. I saw a full IK set barb there doing the glow thing. Shari (Orchid) After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw> >To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back >when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. It's Orchid! Weeeeee!!!! /me runs around in circles and passes out. :-) Signatureno, i didn't forget the 'F's http://www.geocities.com/jerk_o2002 http://www.geocities.com/nameless_mod -My Diablo 2 Mod http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php -My theme song > After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > /me runs around in circles and passes out. :-) You've been eating too much sugar, young man. Shari (Orchid) After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw> >> After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw> >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >You've been eating too much sugar, young man. Is that good or bad? BTW, do you know where 0tarin is? Signatureno, i didn't forget the 'F's http://www.geocities.com/jerk_o2002 http://www.geocities.com/nameless_mod -My Diablo 2 Mod http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php -My theme song > After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Is that good or bad? BTW, do you know where 0tarin is? I'd guess where he always is...picking his various orifices in a puddle of his own filth. Now, don't you regret asking that question? ;-) Shari (Orchid) > To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back > when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. Hey there stranger, good to see you again. I've been up around your home town area recently, doing maintenence work on the Baker Trail in the Cook's Forrest area. And believe it or not, I was actually thinking of you when passing through the little towns like Vowincle, Scotch Hill, and Corsica. > We've got two of the three keys and are working up toward dealing with > the first line of ubers for the first time. We will very likely be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > decent (but not exceptional) gear? Any and all advice would be greatly > appreciated. From what I've read, the best combination is a character who can tank the Ubers while another character keeps the crowds off them. So something like a Zealot/Smiter/Kicker with lots of Crushing Blow, and a Necro who casts Life Tap on the Ubers and uses his Minions and CE to tame the crowds. This is the best write up I've seen so far on the Uber Tristram quest: http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/index.php?showtopic=58929 If you decide to venture into HC again, please look me up. I'd love to share a game with you (and Tito) again. Regards- Mark Bongo Fury > > To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back > > when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. > > Hey there stranger, good to see you again. Thanks. :-) > I've been up around your home town area recently, doing maintenence work on > the Baker Trail in the Cook's Forrest area. And believe it or not, I was > actually thinking of you when passing through the little towns like > Vowincle, Scotch Hill, and Corsica. It's so sweet that you thought of me. Sincerely. :-) Just mentioning Cook's Forest makes me homesick. I haven't been in that area for about 18 years now. I used to think I'd get back there someday and hike with Tito there. I still think it's possible if a bit unlikely. However, the clock is finally ticking on my departure from Japan (though it's ticking very slowly). I quit my job (which I've been at for 12 years and am totally and thoroughly burnt from) last week and will stop working at the end of October with the idea of returning home after a prolonged stint as nothing more than a housewife. At this point, it seems likely I'll be back in the same time zone as the majority of you in a little under two years, possibly even less. Come November, there will be even more time for Diablo playing. ;-) > > We've got two of the three keys and are working up toward dealing with > > the first line of ubers for the first time. We will very likely be [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > best write up I've seen so far on the Uber Tristram quest: > http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/index.php?showtopic=58929 Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, Tito didn't want to go for a summoner necro (though I did mention it as preferable to him) so the one we've got can't keep the dogs off the lawn unless I build another one (which I may have to if this crew fails). Is there any chance a barb with stunning cry could keep things confused while the other characters concentrate on a boss or is the range too limited? Also, could the necro use dim vision to help keep summoned critters away for a bit while the tanks lay the beat down on the boss at hand? Just some thoughts. I really don't want to build a summoner. ;-) At least we have been concentrating on CB for the paladin. The Stone Cursher has 40% chance of CB and the Gore Riders have a 15% chance (I doubt those add up to a 55% chance because the math is probably more complex than that). We're also hoping to score one more um for a Duress plate (which is another 15%). > If you decide to venture into HC again, please look me up. I'd love to share > a game with you (and Tito) again. Indeed I shall once I stop working and have a better shot at syncing my time zone with those of you in the States. Right now, I leave for work just about when the real action is going on. I did play that one hybrid zon solo through HC and thought "never again" but it might be interesting to give it a try with other players (because it wouldn't be so stressful). Shari (Orchid) > > > We've got two of the three keys and are working up toward dealing with > > > the first line of ubers for the first time. We will very likely be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > decent (but not exceptional) gear? Any and all advice would be greatly > > > appreciated. I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but you will need 3 sets of keys or 9 keys. > > From what I've read, the best combination is a character who can tank the > > Ubers while another character keeps the crowds off them. So something like a > > Zealot/Smiter/Kicker with lots of Crushing Blow, and a Necro who casts Life > > Tap on the Ubers and uses his Minions and CE to tame the crowds. This is the > > best write up I've seen so far on the Uber Tristram quest: > > http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/index.php?showtopic=58929 So they do get life bonus from extra players in the game. The more reason why the party number should be kept at minimal. Paladins with high level Holy Shield (which you will definitely have if you are a Smiter/Zealer anyways) and Shout from barbarian are very sturdy. The melee skeletons are laughable. The archers can hit you once in a while but not enough to stun you. The vampires's melee attack is very slow, even though if their hit land, you'll be chilled, Raven Frost or Duriel Shell should take care of this. Pit Lords rarely melee, their melee is also slow and won't be much trouble. However, if you like someone with crowd control anyways, that Bonenecro will do with 1 point in Revive, the Pit Lords are revivable. I doubt the skeletons from a summoning necro will last anyways. Instead of Dim Vision, I'd probably cast Confuse or Terror. I have never brought a necro in, so someone with experience should probably answer this part. > Is there any chance a barb > with stunning cry could keep things confused while the other characters > concentrate on a boss or is the range too limited? Also, could the necro > use dim vision to help keep summoned critters away for a bit while the > tanks lay the beat down on the boss at hand? Just some thoughts. I > really don't want to build a summoner. ;-) I'd prefer to leave the barb out of the battle to keep the party number at minimum. As I said above, the Bonenecro with 1 point in Revive should be more than enough for crowd control. > At least we have been concentrating on CB for the paladin. The Stone > Cursher has 40% chance of CB and the Gore Riders have a 15% chance (I > doubt those add up to a 55% chance because the math is probably more > complex than that). We're also hoping to score one more um for a Duress > plate (which is another 15%). Have you checked the zeal breakpoint with Stone Crusher? That weapon is awfully slow. And here are snippets from the Arreat Summit: "It is possible to get up to 100% chance for Crushing Blow. Anything above 100% is discarded." "If you have more than one item with Crushing Blow, the probabilities will be added together." With your current characters choice, your best choice is the paladin, barbarian, and necromancer. I'm quite sure that party will be able to defeat Uber Tristram. The paladin should be doing all the killing, necro will keep everything else busy, barb will protect the paladin from any astray monsters that escape necro's distractions. Expect the battle to be very long, but should not be difficult at all. If your paly use Smite however, and with more CB items (such as Guillame's Face), the battle will be much shorter, because Smite always hits. Good luck. > > > > We've got two of the three keys and are working up toward dealing with > > > > the first line of ubers for the first time. We will very likely be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but you will need 3 sets of keys > or 9 keys. Yeah, I realized this. I thought it was a matter of "at least 3 sets" because I didn't know if the ubers spawned as you needed them as opposed to randomly. For instance, I didn't know if you could get Lilith 3x and not the other guys so you may have to do it more. I hadn't seen any information about whether or not it worked like a quest where you'd get them one at a time. > > > From what I've read, the best combination is a character who can tank > > > the Ubers while another character keeps the crowds off them. So [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > So they do get life bonus from extra players in the game. The more > reason why the party number should be kept at minimal. I was planning on having one character spawn the areas each time by cubing they keys and entering the portal then having the other characters join afterwards. I haven't read the amazon basin linked posts yet but I'm guessing based on your response to Mark's post (above) that it must include that. > > Is there any chance a barb > > with stunning cry could keep things confused while the other characters [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > at minimum. As I said above, the Bonenecro with 1 point in Revive > should be more than enough for crowd control. If this works as I hope, it shouldn't matter how many come in as I think the hit points are likely locked down after the level is generated and they don't go up as you add more in...at least that's the way it used to work in 1.10 when generating uber Diablo. It might not be that way though. > > At least we have been concentrating on CB for the paladin. The Stone > > Cursher has 40% chance of CB and the Gore Riders have a 15% chance (I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Have you checked the zeal breakpoint with Stone Crusher? That weapon > is awfully slow. I haven't checked the breakpoints but the paladin has about 50% ias on him as a matter of course given the gear he's chosen. I also haven't played the paladin all that much (my husband tends to handle him) but he hasn't had any complaints about speed. > With your current characters choice, your best choice is the paladin, > barbarian, and necromancer. I'm quite sure that party will be able to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > paly use Smite however, and with more CB items (such as Guillame's > Face), the battle will be much shorter, because Smite always hits. Thanks for this advice. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, the paladin isn't a smiter but I'm glad to hear he will likely play a pivotal roll. Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is any value in rotating the characters such that the sorc, paladin and necro start the battle with the pal running conviction (it's maxed), the necro casts lower resist and the sorc statics everything down to 50% then leaves and I bring in the barb? I'm guessing regeneration may mean that they get their hitpoints back pretty fast. I only know that uber Diablo was a breeze using a conviction paladin and a sorceress who could do static, nova, and orb (back in 1.10) and he was supposed to be 90% immune to everything except magic. Shari (Orchid) > Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is any value in rotating the > characters such that the sorc, paladin and necro start the battle with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Shari (Orchid) It takes approximately 10 seconds for any of the brothers to regenerate their life from a sliver back to full health. I wouldn't suggest any character switching. Uber Diablo has 75% Cold Resist. This is different than Diablo Clone. Theoritically, Uber Diablo (and Uber Mephisto which is also 75% Cold Resist) should be no problem for a cold sorceress. But since I have never brought a sorceress in, I do not want to steer you wrong and will leave the discussion to others who have experienced it first hand. One thing worth noting is that without a paladin running Salvation, this could be a very tough battle. Uber Mephisto's Conviction has -150 resistance according to some reports. If your resistances are in the negative, even the Pit Lords, Skeleton Mages (all elements are present), and the Vampires can pose a threat. Not to mention Uber Mephisto's White Ball of Death. > Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, Tito didn't want to go for a > summoner necro (though I did mention it as preferable to him) so the one [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tanks lay the beat down on the boss at hand? Just some thoughts. I > really don't want to build a summoner. ;-) A friend and I have run the ubers twice now, using our old ladder characters. I use a summoner, he a paladin. Terror + Dim Vision works well to hold the minions off of the paladin. I was recasting both constantly as they wear off fairly quickly. Once in a while though, the terrored monsters will run far enough away that they don't come back to the fight. Rod Welcome back sweetie. Hasn't been the same with you gone Looking forward to playing with you again. Talked to wombat-boy lately? foobear >To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back >when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > > > Welcome back sweetie. Hasn't been the same with you gone Looking > forward to playing with you again. Talked to wombat-boy lately? Ah, Foo! I was wondering if you were still around and am very pleased to see you are! I've talked to 0t twice in the last 4 months or so. He's a busy little stuffer - getting ready to graduate from university at long last and he's got a significant other (a real one this time, not an imaginary one) so he's pretty busy. However, if we use his name enough, he may pop into the ether for a second or two before disappearing back into his own reality. Are you still playing Diablo or have you moved on to greener pastures? I hope your life is going well and perhaps we can link up on B.net again. :-) Shari >> Welcome back sweetie. Hasn't been the same with you gone Looking >> forward to playing with you again. Talked to wombat-boy lately? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Shari Hi Shar Yes, I'm still playing (the spirit of Carl perseveres) : ). I stopped playing for a bit and was playing guild wars for a couple of months but came back to D2 with the new patch. I'm curently playing accounts foobear9-12 and will probably add 6,7, and 8 when I start playing barbs, assassins and druids (1 account for each char type). At the moment it's mostly pit runs and levelling up new characters (mostly necros right now). I'm using 2 computers (gotta love KVM switches) now so llevelling and muling is a lot easier. I'm about 10 pounds lighter than the last time we talked and competed in my first 10k this summer, so things are going well (except for 0tty being 1-up on me in the signifigant other department, heavens-to-murgatroid!!). Good to see you back. If you're still using the same account-name I'll probably spot you sooner or later on BNet : ) foobear >To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back >when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. <text snipped to preserve bandwidth> >---------------------------------------------------------- > >Shari (Orchid) > > Hi Shari, It's good to you back. I guess a lot of us have returned for the new patch. I look forward to seeing you on bnet. Chuck (Steellord) > >To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back > >when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Chuck (Steellord) Hey Chuck, I spoke to Brian last night. We are planning a little Diablo party here in Ye Olde Motor City, with me, him, you and Derek, if you're up for it. Mickey >> >To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back >> >when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Mickey as long as its on aweekend I cam do it, but not on a weekday, as I'm working nights. I'd really like to get together and run with you guys. Chuck > >To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back > >when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Chuck (Steellord) Hey there, Chuck! It's good to see more familiar faces back on B.net and in the group. Unfortunately, time zones and being a bit under the weather over the last several days has kept me from linking up with folks on B.net. However, I'm hoping we can all join up for a little online party as soon as I can find a time. I hope you, your wife, and daughter are doing well. :-) Shari (Orchid) >> >To all those who remember me. Hello. :-) I mentioned I might be back >> >when the ladder reset so don't say you weren't warned. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Shari (Orchid) Well, I'm working nights here. My shift is from 4 PM to 1:30 AM Eastern Time. Not sure what that works out to for you. but maybe we can hook up for a game. The wife and daughter are doing great. I just recently had my gall bladder removed, and have recovered nicely. My daughter is starting her senior year of high school this semester and next is college. (big ouch in the area of my wallet!!) :-) Chuck > >Hey there, Chuck! It's good to see more familiar faces back on B.net and > >in the group. Unfortunately, time zones and being a bit under the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > her senior year of high school this semester and next is college. (big > ouch in the area of my wallet!!) :-) I'm glad to hear all is well. I'm surprised you find the time to spend on B.net! What sort of characters are you starting with (if you're on the ladder which I presume you are)? You may want to check the public mules once a week or so for goodies. There's a steady change in the items. I think your time zones overlap with my morning to early afternoon (when I'm asleep or getting ready/at work) which is a shame but if you're still on after my job ends, I'll certainly see you then. I had my gall bladder out 12 years ago and recovered rather badly (it took me more than a year to feel well) and I came out of it feeling like someone had stabbed and beat me up. My case was the first time the doctors in the Japanese hospital I went to had tried arthroscopic surgery (they were learning from an American doctor at the time) and I'm guessing they weren't very good at it. :-p You're lucky that you're recovering well. :-) Somehow knowing people around my age with kids going to college soon makes me feel pretty immature...like there's something I should have done but didn't. However, my wallet is safe. ;-) Shari (Orchid) > Somehow knowing people around my age with kids going to college soon > makes me feel pretty immature...like there's something I should have > done but didn't. However, my wallet is safe. ;-) Heh! Know the feeling. My little sister's two oldest have both finished college (university) and the nephew just landed a good job in the IT industry and the niece is working on genetic engineering. (Somebody's gotta do it). I'm still childless and probably going to stay that way now. Signature~misfit~ > > Somehow knowing people around my age with kids going to college soon > > makes me feel pretty immature...like there's something I should have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I'm still childless and probably going to stay that way now. Some of us are happier that way. :-) I'm very happy for people who are parents and are pleased to have kids but not everyone is cut out to have kids. I've never been maternal, for instance. Shari (Orchid) >>> Somehow knowing people around my age with kids going to college soon >>> makes me feel pretty immature...like there's something I should have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > parents and are pleased to have kids but not everyone is cut out to > have kids. I've never been maternal, for instance. Yeah. I've always been great with kids but then again I've never had any of my own. I have no idea if I'm 'paternal', it's a hard thing to quantify really. :-) In the last 15 years I've thought it would be nice to have children if I found someone suitable to be their mother and everything panned out. It hasn't happened. I guess you play the hand you're dealt. :-) Signature~misfit~ > >>> Somehow knowing people around my age with kids going to college soon > >>> makes me feel pretty immature...like there's something I should have [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > children if I found someone suitable to be their mother and everything > panned out. It hasn't happened. I guess you play the hand you're dealt. :-) Pardon me whilst I pontificate, but having raised 10 children, all of whom were/are well behaved, well mannered, intelligent and achieving, I consider myself (rightly or otehrwise) something of an expert on the topic. If you are 'great with kids', it is because you have a lot of patience. That being the case, you'd make a good parent, as only 3 things are REALLY required for top shelf parenting, patience, consistency and the ability to maintain both regardless of YOUR state of mind. Everythiong else is gravy. Ths SINGLE most important thing a parent can give a child is security. Look around you and you will note that 90% of all personality problems begin and end with insecurity. Patience and consistency prevent insecurity. A child needs to know his/her boundries, and parents who react based on THEIR state of mind can rarely provide this. Something should be either right or wrong on its OWN merits. not on the mood of the parent. If something is OK when you are feeling great and happy, it cannot later be wrong just because the parent is is a piss poor mood. Have patience with children, tell them how good they are and how proud you are of them, dicipline in moderation and NEVER use physical punishment, and you will raise fine, upstanding contributors to society. Mickey >>>>> Somehow knowing people around my age with kids going to college >>>>> soon makes me feel pretty immature...like there's something I [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > punishment, and you will raise fine, upstanding contributors to > society. I just got shiver reading that as it's *exactly* what I believe too. Patience and consistancy. I've seen yoo many parents let their kids do things when they're distracted that they wouldn't normally do or, conversely, not let them do things they would normally be allowed to do when they're upset themselves. Projecting their own moods onto their children. How f.cked up is that? Yet, IMO, 60%+ of adults do it a lot. (It's realistically unaviodable to a very small degree as we are all flawed <g>. That's why I used the rider "a lot" above). Also, to me, children are young 'people' and I treat them as such. (Rather than as 'children', there is a difference for most people IME) I never talk down to them and, if they have a question I do my level best to answer it in a way that they can understand and even maybe challenge them to think. I would never dismiss a child's question out-of-hand anymore than I would an adult friend's question. I'm good at reasoning with kids. I used to spend a lot of time with a couple and their kids and often there'd be yelling and disagreement over something, maybe the kid doing the dishes or homework or something and I've never been a fan of disharmony so often I'd (not wanting to butt in) wait until it reached stalemate, then, with a few short sentences, have the child do what the parent originally wanted happilly. It got to the stage where I would often get asked "Shaun, will you ask him/her". LOL, often I'd just look at the kid and smile and that would be enough. I think the rift between myself and the parents started back there, they resented the fact that I related better to their family than they did. I spent quite a bit of time with one of the sons when he was around 14. He went from being a shy boy who disliked school to lead in the school play (and for the next two years), head boy at school and captain of the school 1st 15 (Top Rugby team) in about 6 months. He'd come visit me after school/dinner, unannounced, uninvited, as I lived just up the road and just sit with me, talking sometimes or often not, listening to my music, reading magazines... He said he felt comfortable at my place, that he could be himself. <g>. I encouraged him to be himself. He had a wicked sense of humour. His parents would have been horrified to know that, if my dishes weren't done, often he'd just wash them for me without saying a word. (It went both ways, I often took him to his rugby games in the weekend with a few of his friends/team-mates. I had a cool car with a good stereo and would often buy them pizza on the way home when they lost. The coach would sometimes arrange for them all to meet and he'd buy the team pizza/MacD's if they won. I figured they deserved it just as much a lot of the time when they'd lost to a better team but still played their hearts out). Sadly sh.t happened and I ceased to spend time with the parents. (I miss the kids so much) However both this guy and his older sister rang me on the night of their 21st birthday parties, drunk, telling me that if anyone should be there I should, (I was there for the oldest girls 21st. She credits me with her love of learning and is a schoolteacher now) get in the car and come..... I made noises like I would to stop the arguing/begging but didn't go. The boy, John, just had hid 21st this March 23rd. I havevn't seen him for three years or so but he still rang me at 2 in the morning......... The rift between me and the mother/stepfather is too deep. The younger girl even hugged me on her 18th and told me that, if it hadn't been for me she wouldn't be alive now, that she is what I made her. I didn't let her get away with that one, I told her she is who she is, an amazing, kind and generous person, she just needed someone to help her see past the difficulties etc.... She'd been driving a car when she was 16 and lost control of it and her best friend was killed. Her family simply didn't handle it and sent her away to live with her grandmother 3 hours drive away. I spent the next 18 months visiting her most weekends and bringing her back to see her 'parents', who were too busy working to go see her themselves. (I had money back then and always had good-to-drive cars with great stereos in and I really enjoyed driving) Often, when they weren't working they were drinking, always some "party" or another to go to or have. Selfish people, having four children but really making no time for them. Sorry, OT. It just came back to me how much I miss my friends. And I don't mean the parents. Signature~misfit~ PS. A Fax that the younger daughter, Dess, sent me when she had been living at her grandparents for nearly a year. Writing this post prompted me to see if it was still readable: "Shaun, I just wrote a letter to Leanne, (A girl I was seeing at the time) don't tell her I wrote this one after, as I said I was going to go to sleep and instead am writing to you. What a bad arse. I just wanted to let you know that I'm so thankful that you are there for me. I've never been able to depend on someone like I do on you. With you I can be honest and I know that I can trust you. I don't trust people and I was shocked when I realised that I trusted you. At the moment I'm feeling pretty bad about myself. I miss everyone and I've lost direction and aim. I have no special talents and my own sister doesn't even like me. Most of my boyfriend's friends have been teasing him because I'm WEIRD and I feel so misunderstood. Mum never rings or writes anymore and Dad never has. Don't get me wrong, I would never move back to TK but it's like I'm being forgotten. I feel extra bad because I miss you more than Mum or Dad. I think it's because you don't judge me and I know I dissapoint them. I feel low and tired. See ya Monday, Love always, Dess." I might cut'n'paste that somewhere. The fax is so faded it's hardly readable anymore and I'd like to keep it. The good news is she's happy (AFAIK), living with a guy she's been with for several years in Sydney, Australia. She has a son, she's <counts on fingers> 24 now. Sorry about the rambling, OT post. It's a rainy cold day and I'm sitting here alone and, Mickey, your post reminded me of different times. >>>>>> Somehow knowing people around my age with kids going to college >>>>>> soon makes me feel pretty immature...like there's something I [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > to think. I would never dismiss a child's question out-of-hand anymore > than I would an adult friend's question. This is as it should be. But there are very few people out here in the real world who are capable of being up to the task simply because they didn't have a rolemodel or behaviour to emulate. I think it's great that they teach parenting in highschool now. It's not the same I know but it's a launch point. > I'm good at reasoning with kids. I used to spend a lot of time with a > couple and their kids and often there'd be yelling and disagreement over [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > the time when they'd lost to a better team but still played their hearts > out). You stole the parents thunder my friend. Support systems are wonderful and in this day and age necessary. Everyone is too busy working and running around trying to keep up that parents don't always have the time and patience to be parents. But when you are sitting there being oh so reasonable in the face of inequity it really pisses people off. Usual response is I live with this everyday where do you get off coming in here and fixing it in a moment. You get to ride off on your white horse and I still have to live with the backlash as well as "but so and so doesn't make me feel the way You do!" Finding that tenuous balance when helping out isn't easy I know. I've had custody of both my youngest sister and my nephew. Involving the parents in the only way to avoid rifts both in their home and with you as a friend. Let me give an example. Me nephew is smart as hell but dropped out of school 2 credits short of graduation last year. He's unmotivated, unchallenged and lacks any real structure in his life. His father who is a nice man is quite uncapable of being a parent. He sees his son as a contemporary and not someone he needs to guide. His mother is on the other hand extremely structured and detailed oriented (read that as being tactful LOL). But as with most modern families they are divorced. She had him til he was 12 with the exception of the year or so he was with me and then his father has had him since. He came to me first and said I dropped out but going to do correspondense. I know my nephew. This was bs. Did I say it was bs? Hell no. I encouraged him and told him if he needed help to come on over and we could work together. Aside from the encouragement I asked him if he had told his mother yet? A big No way came my way. Ok Ouch. I know and his mother doesn't, I see much fireworks about this. So I had him talk to his mother about it. Yes she was kind of pissed that I knew first but she's 400 miles away. I'm down the street. When she called me I told her yeah I knew but thought he needed to discuss it with her first. Problem for us solved. She doesn't see me as an interloper and he didn't have to deal with her finding out from another source. Just for the record he has enrolled to finish up this year. There is always going to be issues with people who are friends of the family and are honorary aunts/uncles (or even truly related). Most people I know are of the don't tell me how to raise my kids school of thought. Shame though cause those of us on the outside tend to see quite clearly into the miasma that surrounds those on the inside. Wtf do you think therapy is for anyway? LOL Family and friends are just the less expensive version! Oh and I get the talk to him!! calls too LOL > Sadly sh.t happened and I ceased to spend time with the parents. (I miss > the kids so much) However both this guy and his older sister rang me on [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > to or have. Selfish people, having four children but really making no time > for them. You did good by the kids. Too bad the relationship with the parents went south. Sometimes this happens and all you can do is what you did. One day these kids will have kids and remember how you treated them when they were at that "difficult stage". It's obvious to me they appreciated it and this will reflect in how they raise their kids. > Sorry, OT. It just came back to me how much I miss my friends. And I don't > mean the parents. They are more then friends they are family. Funny how her letter reflected your mood. It seems to me that you should remember those times and smile rather than let it get you down. You had an impact on her life. She remembers that and appreciates it more than a simple letter could ever say. Life is good my friend. Just for the record I love rainy cold days. They are the best times for reflecting. SignatureIn a World full of Insanity Here I Stand. Sliver > "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message >> I would never dismiss a child's >> question out-of-hand anymore than I would an adult friend's question. > > This is as it should be. But there are very few people out here in > the real world who are capable of being up to the task simply because > they didn't have a rolemodel or behaviour to emulate. Actually I didn't either. My mother was 15 when she got pregnant with me, married my 'father' at 16, I was born, she was pregnant again within the year and he left her. Her family disowned her except for a sister and a brother (she was the youngest of eight siblings) who helped her without their parent's knowledge. She took live-in house-keeping/child care jobs and moved from one to the other a bit. I've never been told why we moved a bit but now I get the impression that she was sexually harrassed a bit. Teenage mother with no support system other than the odd furtive visis from a brother or sister, very vulnerable. She married her employer, my dad, when I was about 7. She had been working for him, an older divorced father of two older boys, for about three years. He has always been there for me but is not an emotional man and didn't have much of a hand in bringing his own sons up, yet alone myself and my little sister. Really nice guy though. Mum didn't know the first thing about bringing up a family so I guess she just treated me like another person. I say this with all the love a son can have for his mother, my mum isn't the brightst of women but she has an infinite capacity for compassion. > I think it's > great that they teach parenting in highschool now. It's not the same > I know but it's a launch point. They do? I hope they're teaching them right. >> I'm good at reasoning with kids. I used to spend a lot of time with a >> couple and their kids and often there'd be yelling and disagreement [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > the parents in the only way to avoid rifts both in their home and > with you as a friend. Let me give an example. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. However I couldn't just sit back and see a need go unfullfilled in these kids. I knew the parents well from when their first daughter was only 6 months old and they then had another daughter and two sons. The parents split when the youngest was about 3 (oldest 9) and she entered a relationship with my best friend. (They're still together). Before she got with my friend I used to rent a sleep-out at the bottom of the garden (at her suggestion) and board with them. I ended up doing most of the cooking and teaching her to cook a bit as well. She was terrible before. <g.> When she got together with my mate I moved out of the sleepout to give them space but still visited around four nights a week and spent most weekends there or they'd visit me at my place. > Me nephew is smart as hell but dropped out of school 2 credits short > of graduation last year. He's unmotivated, unchallenged and lacks any [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > didn't have to deal with her finding out from another source. Just > for the record he has enrolled to finish up this year. Good news. You handled that well. > There is always going to be issues with people who are friends of the > family and are honorary aunts/uncles (or even truly related). Most [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the less expensive version! Oh and I get the talk to him!! calls too > LOL The main reason that I am no longer friends with the mother and stepfather is that it seems she always had feeling for me and he knew about it even when I didn't. Irony. I had no interest in her that way. Funny how your best friend can slowly turn nasty on you and you don't know why. I don't think it had anything to do with the kids, even when things got weird they used to thank me for all the help (although, when she got drunk, the mother would tell everyone who was in the room what a good mother she was, how her kids had/were turning out really well, that she got on really well with them.... Something odd there. She did get on well with them but had F all to do with them "turning out well"). For a while the two sons went to live with their father (who still lived in the same town) and his woman. They just lived down the road from me and the father worked evening shift and his woman didn't want anything to do with the kids. Actually she resented them. That's the period when John, the oldest boy, and I really bonded. He'd come visit me most evenings, often I'd feed him as his father left it to his girlfriend and she didn't bother. In fact not only would she not prepare food for him but she'd tell him off for eating "her" stuff out of the fridge (she was about 250 lbs) or having a drink of milk. I'd either cook for him of take him out to get chinese takeaways or something. And talk. Let him be himself and learn that he was a good person with a great sense of humour and a quick mind and damn good company. That's the time when he went from 'outsider' at school and disliking school to being the coolest guy in the school (No sh.t!). As I said, a year or so later he was Head Boy and was going out with the nicest 'babe' in the school. <sigh> I bought him his first packet of condoms. > You did good by the kids. Thanks. > Too bad the relationship with the parents > went south. Ultimately the kids were better friends than the parents. I just lost touch with them when I stopped seeing the parents. They've all left home anyway other than the youngest boy, the one I had the least to do with. He bonded with his stepfather and they actually work togther now. Now I really know what the guy is like I don't think that's a good thing. I know he was my best friend for a few years and we flatted together but he was single then. Turned out he wasn't/isn't great in a relationship or with responsibility and didn't let that stop him from having the odd fling. I dislike infidelity with a vengance. > Sometimes this happens and all you can do is what you > did. One day these kids will have kids and remember how you treated > them when they were at that "difficult stage". It's obvious to me > they appreciated it and this will reflect in how they raise their > kids. I hope so. :-) It may be my only legacy as I don't have kids of my own and am 44 now. >> Sorry, OT. It just came back to me how much I miss my friends. And I >> don't mean the parents. > > They are more then friends they are family. They sure are. Estranged unfortunately but I think they've outgrown their need for me and I did my best to equip them for life in the big, bad world. <g> >> Sorry about the rambling, OT post. It's a rainy cold day and I'm >> sitting here alone and, Mickey, your post reminded me of different [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > should remember those times and smile rather than let it get you > down. Ehhh, I was a bit sad already. Also there's a lot more to the story than I could write about in here. Let's just say I have bitter/sweet memories of Dess. (Don't get me wrong, I did nothing untoward, as much as she wanted me to when she was 18 - 19) > You had an impact on her life. She remembers that and > appreciates it more than a simple letter could ever say. Life is good > my friend. Indeed it is. Thanks for reminding me. :-) > Just for the record I love rainy cold days. They are the > best times for reflecting. I'd love cold, rainy days a lot more if I could afford to heat the house. ;-) Take care, Signature~misfit~ >> "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message >> great that they teach parenting in highschool now. It's not the same >> I know but it's a launch point. > > They do? I hope they're teaching them right. They do here. Don't know about elsewhere. My sister whined about having to take the course. > Yeah, I hear what you're saying. However I couldn't just sit back and see > a need go unfullfilled in these kids. I knew the parents well from when > their Well there's that when good people fail to do anything getting all shot to hell 8D Lucky for the kids eh! > The main reason that I am no longer friends with the mother and stepfather > is that it seems she always had feeling for me and he knew about it even > when I didn't. Irony. I had no interest in her that way. Funny how your > best Ahhh that's a whole other kettle of fish and not much you can do about it either. Other than behave that is LOL >>> Sorry about the rambling, OT post. It's a rainy cold day and I'm >>> sitting here alone and, Mickey, your post reminded me of different [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Dess. (Don't get me wrong, I did nothing untoward, as much as she wanted > me to when she was 18 - 19) Well I am sure you saw that coming from a mile away. After all you weren't her father and you were a very nice man to her. All qualities that make someone very attractive to another. You probably broke her little virgin heart LOL And for the best reasons. Another admirable quality. 8D >> You had an impact on her life. She remembers that and >> appreciates it more than a simple letter could ever say. Life is good >> my friend. > > Indeed it is. Thanks for reminding me. :-) Well ya know... sometimes we forget. VBG >> Just for the record I love rainy cold days. They are the >> best times for reflecting. > > I'd love cold, rainy days a lot more if I could afford to heat the house. > ;-) LOL well that's what blankets are for! Although it's preferable it was another soul rather than the blankies 8D SignatureIn a World full of Insanity Here I Stand. Sliver >>> "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message >>> great that they teach parenting in highschool now. It's not the same [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > They do here. Don't know about elsewhere. My sister whined about > having to take the course. Ok. I'm pleased they're doing it, as long as they're doing it right. >> Yeah, I hear what you're saying. However I couldn't just sit back >> and see a need go unfullfilled in these kids. I knew the parents [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Ahhh that's a whole other kettle of fish and not much you can do > about it either. Other than behave that is LOL Which I did. :-) >>>> Sorry about the rambling, OT post. It's a rainy cold day and I'm >>>> sitting here alone and, Mickey, your post reminded me of different [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > little virgin heart LOL And for the best reasons. Another admirable > quality. 8D Yeah. Although, now, I sometimes regret that things didn't go down that path. She and I were really connected. You hear about people knowing what the other is thinking right? Being quite psychic together? Well, how's this, just *one* example: (I could list 20+) I was taking her and her friend back to the town they lived in. She didn't want to leave until she had to, so she was sitting in my lounge with her friend, talking and listening to music. I was having a wee lie-down as it had already been a long day and it was going to be a four-hour drive. I figured I had enough gas but, just to be sure, thought I'd make sure I had a few bucks for more. (I hadn't mentioned this to Dess and she had no idea how much gas I had). In my bedroom, I checked my pockets and had $4.60. I figured I'd go to the bowl where I kept my change in the lounge and make it up to $5, just in case I needed it. I went to the bowl, on a shelf behind Dess and got 40c out. The stereo was quite loud and I didn't think she'd even heard me. Just as I was walking out the door back to my room with the change in my hand she turned and asked "Did you get your 40c for gas?". I got that little shiver I was used to getting with her and said "Yes". She looked at me and said "Bullshit". (It used to scare her a bit when these things happened). I walked over and opened my hand and put the 40c on the table in front of her and then reached into my pocket and pulled out the other $4.60 and said "Now I have $5, how did you know?" She said she didn't know, that it just "seemed like the thing to say". I could write a couple pages about several incidents similar to that. Absolutely no way they were 'chance' or just knowing the other person's habits. She liked it when I was the one who 'got the message' but it unsettled her (for a while) when she did. I paid $40 to have an internet astrology compatibility chart drawn up for us (as the freebie teaser seemed uncannilly accurate). I supplied date, time and place of birth for us both. It was scary as all hell. It was as if someone had been watching us for the last three years or so, even when we were alone, and had accurately written it down. One of the main things it kept stressing was "You will be unusually psychic together" and that we were very lucky, we were soul-mates. I was a bit skeptical (Thinking maybe they just tell people what they think they want to hear) so paid another $40 (LOL) to have another one done for me and my last girlfriend. That was quite accurate as well but nowhere near as accurate as the first. <shrug> >>> You had an impact on her life. She remembers that and >>> appreciates it more than a simple letter could ever say. Life is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Well ya know... sometimes we forget. VBG Indeed we do. >>> Just for the record I love rainy cold days. They are the >>> best times for reflecting. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > LOL well that's what blankets are for! Although it's preferable it was > another soul rather than the blankies 8D Too true. Cheers, Signature~misfit~ >>> memories of Dess. (Don't get me wrong, I did nothing untoward, as >>> much as she wanted me to when she was 18 - 19) [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > <shrug> Ahh Misfit. As much as you reflect back and think hmmm what if. I believe and I think you know you did the right thing. I am a firm believer in the if it's meant to be it will happen philosphy of life (with the addendum everything happens for a reason and life is what you make it. Which may seem contradictory but trust me that's how it works I seem to be a living example LOL). A little obsessive about it all weren't you? What exactly was the age diff at the time? You said she was 18-19 how old where you? I find myself connected to some people on such a deep lvl it's scary at times and yet ultimately thrilling. Of course I tend to get myself in trouble that way too ROFL. I guess thats something I have learned to live with. After all what would life be without these thrilling temptations and being able to meet yet another soul-mate of sorts. Many people have asked me if I believe in soul-mates. I would have to answer yes. I also think that no one person can "complete" any other one person. It's kind of a link to the (goes for the flowerpower terminalogy) cosmic consciousness of humanity. Finding we all are truly linked in some way and discovering we can find ourselves in everyone we meet both the good and the bad. Of course you have to be willing to look and really see too. LOL SignatureIn a World full of Insanity Here I Stand. Sliver > Ahh Misfit. As much as you reflect back and think hmmm what if. I > believe and I think you know you did the right thing. Yes. However, some days when life isn't that great I do wonder... > I am a firm > believer in the if it's meant to be it will happen philosphy of life > (with the addendum everything happens for a reason and life is what > you make it. Which may seem contradictory but trust me that's how it > works I seem to be a living example LOL). I sort of believe that too, in destiny, fate, kismet.. However, I also think we have freedom of choice to either go with what destiny offers you or deny it and go your own way. > A little obsessive about it > all weren't you? Oh yeah. Pretty hard not to be when she's in contact every day and I'd just *know* when she was going to ring. One of the strangest feelings I've ever had was when I was just walking out the door with a friend and the land-line phone rang. I said to him "That's Dess, what's she doing ringing on the land-line?" I answered it and it wasn't her, it was my father. The world spun around and I *had* to sit down, all was not right, I felt physically sick (My friend said I went white as a ghost). Then my cell-phone rang and the world stopped spinning. (It was her) Strangest feeling I've ever had without powerful drugs. <g> > What exactly was the age diff at the time? You said > she was 18-19 how old where you? Yeah, quite a bit older. Mid/late thirties. > I find myself connected to some > people on such a deep lvl it's scary at times and yet ultimately > thrilling. The level of connection I had with this girl was scary. Like I said earlier, I could write a lot of pages about it. (In fact I did, I kept a diary at the time, the only time in my life I ever did. I *had* to tell someone... That someone was a diary. MS Word formatted. LOL) A lot of people witnessed it and have since come to believe in psychic connections when before they didn't. There was the time that I woke up at 4:30am after having a bad nightmare. (Unusual for me). She rang 2 minutes later (she never rang at that time of day/night) almost in tears and asked if I was Ok, she'd woken up worried sick about me, thought there was something wrong. 100 miles away. And the time I bought a new CD and was listening to it on the way home and thought that Dess' mother would like one of the tracks. I went to her (mothers) place and played it for her. She asked to look at the CD and said that Dess had just rang her 15 minutes before I got there and told her about this track on her new CD she had to hear. Neither of us had ever bought a CD by that band before or ever discussed them. And on and on and on.... <g> > Of course I tend to get myself in trouble that way too > ROFL. I guess thats something I have learned to live with. After all > what would life be without these thrilling temptations and being able > to meet yet another soul-mate of sorts. I think there is only one for each person. Most people (99.9%) never meet them. > Many people have asked me if > I believe in soul-mates. I would have to answer yes. I also think > that no one person can "complete" any other one person. I don't think that it's about 'completing' a person, more like complimenting. Like two matching molecules that just fit perfectly together and, together are greater than they could ever be apart. > It's kind of > a link to the (goes for the flowerpower terminalogy) cosmic > consciousness of humanity. Finding we all are truly linked in some > way and discovering we can find ourselves in everyone we meet both > the good and the bad. I agree we are all linked to a greater or lesser extent. > Of course you have to be willing to look and > really see too. LOL And other times it just blind-sides you when it's the last thing you're looking for. Then leaves you feeling run-over. Amd empty. :-) Signature~misfit~ > > Ahh Misfit. As much as you reflect back and think hmmm what if. I > > believe and I think you know you did the right thing. > > Yes. However, some days when life isn't that great I do wonder... Just remember that there would have been days had you pursued that path which also would not have been great that would have made you wonder about the "other path" (that'd be the one that you are living now). The path not taken always looks more attractive because it is free of the pain of reality. However, I do know how you feel. There are always some rather critical junctures in life where you made one decision among all the little unimportant decisions which make you wonder how much better life would have been had you chosen differently. The problem is that, almost always, you don't consider that it may have been worse. Mind you, I'm not saying it would have been worse but we don't tend to reflect as often on that possibility. > > I am a firm > > believer in the if it's meant to be it will happen philosphy of life [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > we have freedom of choice to either go with what destiny offers you or deny > it and go your own way. This is pretty much what I believe as well. I think that we are offered the opportunity to have certain futures but the freedom to choose to pursue those opportunities or not. Fate offers us the opportunities but we choose to take it up on them. You might want to consider reading Brian Weiss's "Only Love is Real: A Story of Soulmates Reunited." You can probably get it at a local library or if they don't carry it, via interlibrary loan (if you don't want to pop for the $11.00 or so to get it through amazon.com). FWIW, I was given two chances to be with Tito (the first, I ignored) and he met with a psychic who offered a lot of information which related to me several years before he met me. The session with the psychic is on cassette tape and refers to the specific geographic location of the person he had a bond with (that location being across the country from where he was living in California-specifically on the East Coast). The psychic he visited wasn't some fortune teller but more of a new age type of person who just could read people. I know a lot of people feel such perceived bonds are a bunch of baloney and you see what you want to see by interpreting vague notions and portents as what you want them to be. While I don't believe in horoscopes, I do believe in bonds that go beyond what we can perceive with our limited senses. > > What exactly was the age diff at the time? You said > > she was 18-19 how old where you? > > Yeah, quite a bit older. Mid/late thirties. While I do believe in bonds, I don't think that, given your situation, that you should have pursued a romantic relationship with someone so much younger than you, at least when she in her teens. It would have been another story had she been 21 or older with the same age gap. I'd agree with Sliver that you made the right choice. Sometimes the bond isn't about romance or sex but simply about love and emotional intimacy. If it was meant to be other than what it was, I believe you would have had at least another chance to make that choice. > > Of course I tend to get myself in trouble that way too > > ROFL. I guess thats something I have learned to live with. After all [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think there is only one for each person. Most people (99.9%) never meet > them. Well, if you read the book above, you may or may not feel differently. > > Many people have asked me if > > I believe in soul-mates. I would have to answer yes. I also think [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > complimenting. Like two matching molecules that just fit perfectly together > and, together are greater than they could ever be apart. I think that we're all incomplete as human beings and that's part of why we all crave contact and social interaction. > > It's kind of > > a link to the (goes for the flowerpower terminalogy) cosmic [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I agree we are all linked to a greater or lesser extent. As, do I. I also think the idea scares a lot of people because they both crave and fear intimacy with others (because intimacy opens one up to pain). Also, if we are all truly linked, there's a burden and responsibility that goes along with that which most people cannot face as it's easier to embrace a selfish "every man for himself" attitude. Shari (Orchid) >>> Ahh Misfit. As much as you reflect back and think hmmm what if. I >>> believe and I think you know you did the right thing. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > now). The path not taken always looks more attractive because it is > free of the pain of reality. Yes. "The grass is always greener...." > However, I do know how you feel. There are always some rather critical > junctures in life where you made one decision among all the little [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > not saying it would have been worse but we don't tend to reflect as > often on that possibility. Understood. >>> I am a firm >>> believer in the if it's meant to be it will happen philosphy of life [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > library or if they don't carry it, via interlibrary loan (if you > don't want to pop for the $11.00 or so to get it through amazon.com). I'll visit the library.. I've noted title and author, thanks. > FWIW, I was given two chances to be with Tito (the first, I ignored) > and he met with a psychic who offered a lot of information which [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the East Coast). The psychic he visited wasn't some fortune teller > but more of a new age type of person who just could read people. I know such a person. > I know a lot of people feel such perceived bonds are a bunch of > baloney and you see what you want to see by interpreting vague > notions and portents as what you want them to be. While I don't > believe in horoscopes, I do believe in bonds that go beyond what we > can perceive with our limited senses. I don't believe in horoscopes such as you read in the paper or magazines. However I do believe in a porperly drawn up natal chart, using exact tims and place of birth. I've read a couple now and they are just so accurate it is impossible to deny that there is something there. It upsets me a bit as I am a scientist really and, as a scientist I can't really give gredence to clestial bodies at the time of our birth affecting us for life. However. as I said, the few natal charts I've seen are spot-on. >>> What exactly was the age diff at the time? You said >>> she was 18-19 how old where you? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > been another story had she been 21 or older with the same age gap. I'd > agree with Sliver that you made the right choice. You're both probably right. However... > Sometimes the bond isn't about romance or sex but simply about love > and emotional intimacy. If it was meant to be other than what it was, > I believe you would have had at least another chance to make that > choice. I had several chances over a couple of years. She asked me to stay the night, sleep with her, several times. She even used the expression "make love" once, just so I knew what she meant, (and that was out of desperation at me not making any moves, it certainly wasn't her style, she was quite shy, especially about things sexual) she must have thought I was thick, or gay. She left a flat she wasn't happy in once, asked me to pick her up one night. Stayed the night on my couch after talking for hours, we had a carefree, funfilled crazy day the next day, she said it was the best day of her life.... Late in the afternoon I told her I was taking her to her mothers place, she really didn't want to go.... Ultimately she couldn't handle the repeated rejection and went to Australia, left the country to get away from a situation that hurt her too much. Every time I turned her down she would avaoid me for a week or two but couldn't keep away. She'd already made it clear that I was the only person she could trust and I guess I was giving out mixed messages....... Even her mother said she went to Australia to get away from me. (And her mother had always insisted that the whole situation simply wasn't happening) :-( For a long time I held onto the idea that I would bump into her again later and things would be sweet. However I got into another relationship (largely to ease the pain) as did she. Her's resulted in children so I guess that's that. Mine is in limbo at the moment. Also I'm nearly over the hill. I feel I've aged 20 years since I last saw her. In fact it's been about 5 years. Seems like forever. She believes in reincarnation, I hope she's right. >>> Of course I tend to get myself in trouble that way too >>> ROFL. I guess thats something I have learned to live with. After all [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Well, if you read the book above, you may or may not feel differently. Indeed. >>> Many people have asked me if >>> I believe in soul-mates. I would have to answer yes. I also think [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I think that we're all incomplete as human beings and that's part of > why we all crave contact and social interaction. Hmmm. I sort of agree and I sort of don't. :-) I don't like the idea of co-dependancy, that a person is incapable of living a fullfilling life without that certain someone. That said, a subconscious part of me always knew I was waiting for that "certain someone", ever since I was a teenager, and my whole life-view changed when I heard she had a child. Life is no longer full of unlimited possibilities and wonders. Sometimes I feel like I'm just playing Diablo, waiting for God. (As the expression goes, I'm not a religious person) >>> It's kind of >>> a link to the (goes for the flowerpower terminalogy) cosmic [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > responsibility that goes along with that which most people cannot face > as it's easier to embrace a selfish "every man for himself" attitude. Something I've been struggling to come to terms with myself recently in fact. At one stage of my life, not so long ago, I had about five people who considered me to be their best friend, mostly women. Now I'm almost a hermit. There are several things that have influenced that but the biggest reason I feel is that a part of me died about five years ago. LOL, things I've never talked about with anyone, in a games newsgroup at that. Sorry for the OT thread folks. Signature~misfit~ PS. A few Pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/misfit61nz Us together (taken by her mother) A pic taken from a portfolio she had done by a professional, her aunt pressured her into it. A self-taken pic she sent me one day as she said I didn't have a recent pic of her. All taken when she was around 18. Things got into the offer/rejection cycle a bit after that. Oddly, normally she hated photos. >>>> What exactly was the age diff at the time? You said >>>> she was 18-19 how old where you? >>> >>> Yeah, quite a bit older. Mid/late thirties. Ahhh. Something to relate to you. I was 18. I met an amazing man who was 34. 16years diff. We did go there. It lasted about a year. I still think of him but I know it wouldn't have worked out. Simple answer, I needed to experience more of life and he was already settled. There are many reasons why we ended together and even more why we went our seperate ways. Bottomline is the simple answer. Timing was wrong and I don't think it will ever be right. He's now remarried. I am happily married. Doesn't mean I don't still think of him fondly and sometimes longingly. It was magical and memory has a tendency to wipe away the negative stuff. The whole rose colored glasses deal. Take heart in the fact that you didn't have to go through the needless heartache of breaking up or losing her to life. >> Sometimes the bond isn't about romance or sex but simply about love >> and emotional intimacy. If it was meant to be other than what it was, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > years. Seems like forever. She believes in reincarnation, I hope she's > right. When we are adrift we often reach out for the things that made us feel good. Returning time and again to attain that feeling. Regardless of the frustrations involved. You can't live in the now while dwelling on the past. This I am sure you are aware of but I know all about those nights that the past haunts us and the inevitable what ifs. Take comfort in something inside you knew you had to do what you did and you stood by that decision regardless of the temptations. There really is a reason for this. It's kept your memories of her safe and the same for her. >>>> Many people have asked me if >>>> I believe in soul-mates. I would have to answer yes. I also think [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > feel like I'm just playing Diablo, waiting for God. (As the expression > goes, I'm not a religious person) It's not co-dependancy. It's we all seem to have little pieces missing and are able to find them in those around us. Making us more rounded so to speak. I certainly don't depend on anyone in my life to fulfill me. That's my job. It's the people in my life enrich my existance. Know what I mean? From what you tell me I get the sense that your stuck. Seeking your answer in the past and something that was good but not good enough (that being she was too young etc). What you need to take from this is she opened your eyes/soul/heart to the unlimited possibilites and wonders but had to go. Now you have to keep pursueing those for yourself and not let the past dictate how you live now. >>>> It's kind of >>>> a link to the (goes for the flowerpower terminalogy) cosmic [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > hermit. There are several things that have influenced that but the biggest > reason I feel is that a part of me died about five years ago. It's not dead. It's just been grieving for the loss. None of your current relationships have filled that loss because you were still mourning. Doesn't mean they couldn't have. You just weren't ready to go there. In time you will get there I am sure. You seem to be quite in touch with how you feel about things and that you want to move forward. > LOL, things I've never talked about with anyone, in a games newsgroup at > that. Sorry for the OT thread folks. Nothing odd to me. She didn't want you to forget about her. I will leave you with something I read one day that struck me as quite true to this situation. "Certainly no one has ever died of an unrequited passion - it's usually the ones that Are requited that gets people in trouble." P. 220 Four and Twenty Blackbirds By Mercedes Lackey. SignatureIn a World full of Insanity Here I Stand. Sliver >>>>> What exactly was the age diff at the time? You said >>>>> she was 18-19 how old where you? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > colored glasses deal. Take heart in the fact that you didn't have to go > through the needless heartache of breaking up or losing her to life. I ain't all so sure about that. When I met Miss Whitni, she was 16 and I was 26. We got to be good friends, although we both knew the other wanted more, but we waited for a year before doing our first horizonal bop. Of course, she being the prolific mother that she is, and me being.... THE SPERMINATOR, she was pregnant really quickly. Three years later, she was pregnant again, 4 years later, pregnant again, 3 years later, again, and then she decided maybe she WOULD marry me :) Mickey >>>>>> What exactly was the age diff at the time? You said >>>>>> she was 18-19 how old where you? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > pregnant again, 4 years later, pregnant again, 3 years later, again, and > then she decided maybe she WOULD marry me :) You sir are the exception to all rules. But we knew that didn't we? ;) Oh and I like the fact that she made ya wait ROFL! SignatureIn a World full of Insanity Here I Stand. Sliver >>>>>>> What exactly was the age diff at the time? You said >>>>>>> she was 18-19 how old where you? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Oh and I like the fact that she made ya wait ROFL! And wait, and wait. My mother almost had a heart attack when she found out that I asked her to marry me on our 3rd date, before even getting overly intimate, as prior to that, if a woman uttered a word that started with the letter 'm', I was 3 states away. ALso, she was the FIRST woman I ever dated who was younger than I. I guess when fate decides to have some fun, you can't escape it :o) Mickey > Ahhh. Something to relate to you. I was 18. I met an amazing man who > was 34. 16years diff. We did go there. It lasted about a year. I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > glasses deal. Take heart in the fact that you didn't have to go > through the needless heartache of breaking up or losing her to life. I know what you mean, that's why I left it alone at the time. I felt she needed to experience more of life (not that I had stopped mind you). However, at the time I didn't think that would include getting into a long-term relationship and having children. ;-) > When we are adrift we often reach out for the things that made us > feel good. Returning time and again to attain that feeling. Yes, I am adrift right now. My current relationship is in question and, if it ends, I won't be looking for another one. I was single and celibate for over 10 years prior to this one, I'm used to living the isolated life. > Regardless of the frustrations involved. You can't live in the now > while dwelling on the past. This I am sure you are aware of but I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the temptations. There really is a reason for this. It's kept your > memories of her safe and the same for her. How amazngly positive of you! I do appreciate your take on this. :-) > It's not co-dependancy. It's we all seem to have little pieces > missing and are able to find them in those around us. Making us more [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > keep pursueing those for yourself and not let the past dictate how > you live now. You have very valid points. However, I've not met anyone else that comes close to what I had with her. I mentioned I'd been celibate for years, I'd always had this subconscious feeling that there was just one person out there for me and I didn't want to be bothered with anyone else until I met her. Since I met her and let her go I've figured, I'm here, might as well try to have some fun. It's not much fun though. >> Something I've been struggling to come to terms with myself recently >> in fact. At one stage of my life, not so long ago, I had about five [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in touch with how you feel about things and that you want to move > forward. I'm just looking at my life a little now I guess. Current relationship could go one way or the other. I was tidying out some old stuff and I found some stuff Dess had given me that I'd put away..... >> Oddly, normally she hated photos. > > Nothing odd to me. She didn't want you to forget about her. :-) There is no way I could ever forget about her. > I will > leave you with something I read one day that struck me as quite true [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > usually the ones that Are requited that gets people in trouble." > P. 220 Four and Twenty Blackbirds By Mercedes Lackey. Makes sense I guess. As long as you discount suicides. :-) Thanks for being so positive Sliver, it's been a help. Signature~misfit~ >> Ahhh. Something to relate to you. I was 18. I met an amazing man who >> was 34. 16years diff. We did go there. It lasted about a year. I [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > However, at the time I didn't think that would include getting into a > long-term relationship and having children. ;-) Full circle. You kinda need to be settled and ready to devote your time to being a parent to have children 8D (oh and I win for bringing it back to the original topic LMFAO!) >> When we are adrift we often reach out for the things that made us >> feel good. Returning time and again to attain that feeling. > > Yes, I am adrift right now. My current relationship is in question and, if > it ends, I won't be looking for another one. I was single and celibate for > over 10 years prior to this one, I'm used to living the isolated life. Don't tempt the fates or PTB. You know love always finds you when you're not looking ;) >> Regardless of the frustrations involved. You can't live in the now >> while dwelling on the past. This I am sure you are aware of but I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How amazngly positive of you! I do appreciate your take on this. :-) I'm not an optimist far from it. I do the hope for the best and expect the worst credo, I'm never disappointed that way nor am I unprepared. (fun little tangents LOL) >> It's not co-dependancy. It's we all seem to have little pieces >> missing and are able to find them in those around us. Making us more [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > her. Since I met her and let her go I've figured, I'm here, might as well > try to have some fun. It's not much fun though. You do realize that this isn't a dress rehearsal. You have one life live it to the fullest you can and as Thoreau suggested "suck the marrow out of life". Denying yourself the enjoyment of others doesn't make the road any easier. As long as you keep passing up on MissRightNow you may miss the one that is the grown up made for you version of Dess. >>> Something I've been struggling to come to terms with myself recently >>> in fact. At one stage of my life, not so long ago, I had about five [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > could go one way or the other. I was tidying out some old stuff and I > found some stuff Dess had given me that I'd put away..... Which reawakened all those old feelings and memories. Bittersweet stuff my friend but all part of the past. Don't let it shroud you in a mythical mist and cloud your judgement about your future (oooo I gave myself shivers aaaaahahahahaha) >>> Oddly, normally she hated photos. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Makes sense I guess. As long as you discount suicides. :-) Now now we all know suicides are the ultimate cop-out and not a solution to anything. There is no rationalization for it other than selfishness. So 8P~~~~~~~~ > Thanks for being so positive Sliver, it's been a help. Hehe Did I ever tell you I have a degree in Psychology? I call it my Latin wallpaper. 8D All silliness aside. No problem my friend. I do know how you feel and want you to know you are not alone. |
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