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Chris Lansdell - 30 Nov 2004 01:43 GMT

Well not really. Part build guide, part spot report, part questions.

Current Furysin gear, lvl 55:
Guillaume's
Eth Baezil's Vortex
Rattlecage
Cleg's Glove
Nos Coil
Ravenfrost
Manald
Goblin Toe
+2 Shadow Ammy

Obviously, the aim with this build in late NM/hell is 100%cb without
sacrificing physical damage. Easy to say, and apparently easy to do.
Options:
Guillaume's+Goblin+Stone Crusher/Black = 100, armor slot free
Duress+Goblin+Guillaume's = 100, weapon slot free
Duress+Goblin+Black/Stone Crusher = 100, helm free

Stormlash is a minor drop in CB that can be made up by Venom Grip or Blood
Gloves. Avg dmg is lower than Stone Crusher. Fleshripper and Fleshrender
(upped) provide OW, DW and PMH, but with a 15-20% CB drop off that can be
only partially made up with gloves. If you go Duress/Guillaume's/Venom
Grip/Fleshripper, you have 100, but the boot slot is the weakest of the
available substitutes. However, adding Goblin Toes to that setup, while
putting you over 100, does mean you can play with other gloves.

Since shiflet was talking about Stormlash's Static going off, I take it that
CTC on striking is what triggers on BF. This makes gloves like Lavagout very
very good, as you will be constantly enchanted.
Speaking of Stormlash, how important is the Static with 100% CB? Static has
penalties in hell, and lightning immunes are more prevalent than phys
immunes. Also, Reaper's will take care of the phys immunes so that CB goes
off. As far as I know, CB has no penalties in Hell.
Dilemma right now is whether to trade for eth Stone Crusher, eth Fleshrender
and a Pul to up it, or eth Fleshripper.

I am finding that knockback and/or monster flee is very important to this
build, thus the Cleglaw's gloves. Black has it as a mod. Howltusk therefore
is a nice option as a helm if I do drop the Guillaume's. Face of Horror is
another option. If armor is the thing I drop, Nat's armor may be worth
looking at with the buffing of Shadow Master and Venom, and the 2 holes for
PTops for MF duty. Lance Guard as a shield is under-rated, as much as
Stormshield is over-rated. Yes, the %blocking is very high on SS, and it has
%dr, but what else does it do? ATo me, neither is as good as Tiamat's for
this build so far. Maybe hell will be different. I'll be maxing block
anyway.
Any belts that give PMH? I will miss that mod I think. Any shields that give
OW and DS?
One thing that causes slight difficulty, and that's mana burners, especially
phys immune ones, and non-leechable stuff. Meph took me an age to kill in nm
at players 2. And those spectre thingies? Forget it, I was there all day. I
guess once the merc turns 75 that will change, but in the mean time,
Frosties? Magefists? Back to Nightsmoke?

Comments please!

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tcells - 30 Nov 2004 02:02 GMT

> Well not really. Part build guide, part spot report, part questions.
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> CTC on striking is what triggers on BF. This makes gloves like Lavagout very
> very good, as you will be constantly enchanted.

ugh

> Speaking of Stormlash, how important is the Static with 100% CB?

hugely important

Static has

> penalties in hell, and lightning immunes are more prevalent than phys
> immunes. Also, Reaper's will take care of the phys immunes so that CB goes
> off. As far as I know, CB has no penalties in Hell.

single monsters are not your problem, your problem will be large groups
which spot you, and deceide to eat you for dinner when you solo in a
multiplayer game.

> Dilemma right now is whether to trade for eth Stone Crusher, eth Fleshrender
> and a Pul to up it, or eth Fleshripper.

none of the above, unless you want a fleshripper for boss killing.
Schaefers > stonecrusher, CM is a good cheap way to go, and better than
either of these choices for general killing.

> I am finding that knockback and/or monster flee is very important to this
> build, thus the Cleglaw's gloves.

hmmm doing something wrong then as you're still in NM.

Black has it as a mod. Howltusk therefore

> is a nice option as a helm if I do drop the Guillaume's. Face of Horror is
> another option. If armor is the thing I drop, Nat's armor may be worth
> looking at with the buffing of Shadow Master and Venom, and the 2 holes for
> PTops for MF duty. Lance Guard as a shield is under-rated, as much as
> Stormshield is over-rated. Yes, the %blocking is very high on SS, and it has
> %dr, but what else does it do?

what more do you want from a shield? But yes, in NM there are many better
choices than SS

ATo me, neither is as good as Tiamat's for

> this build so far. Maybe hell will be different. I'll be maxing block
> anyway.

yes hell will be different. Right now tias rocks.

> Any belts that give PMH?

yes, should not be needed though.

I will miss that mod I think. Any shields that give

> OW and DS?
> One thing that causes slight difficulty, and that's mana burners,

mind blast

especially

> phys immune ones, and non-leechable stuff. Meph took me an age to kill in nm
> at players 2. And those spectre thingies? Forget it, I was there all day. I
> guess once the merc turns 75 that will change, but in the mean time,
> Frosties? Magefists? Back to Nightsmoke?
>
> Comments please!

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Shiflet - 30 Nov 2004 02:12 GMT

> Since shiflet was talking about Stormlash's Static going off, I take it that
> CTC on striking is what triggers on BF.

Aye.

> This makes gloves like Lavagout very
> very good, as you will be constantly enchanted.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Dilemma right now is whether to trade for eth Stone Crusher, eth Fleshrender
> and a Pul to up it, or eth Fleshripper.

Static can drop enemies quicker than CB, but both together is even faster.
Don't worry about 100% CB. 75% or so(15 Gores, 35 guillame's, 33 from
Stormlash or 25 from Fleshripper should be plenty, then if you use Duress,
even better) will be going off constantly, and allows more freedom in gear.
Also, CB doesn't scale with monster life, so it always treats enemies as if
they were spawned in a 1 player game...static is as effective in 8 player
games as it is in 1 player games. Static+CB together just tears through
enemies(withness a Stormlasher zealot in action).

> I am finding that knockback and/or monster flee is very important to this
> build, thus the Cleglaw's gloves. Black has it as a mod. Howltusk therefore
> is a nice option as a helm if I do drop the Guillaume's.

Guillame's is basically THE best Furysin helm, bar none. Dropping it
is...not recommended. You don't just get the huge CB, but also DS and FHR,
plus a strengh boost too. It's a verrrry nice helm.

> Face of Horror is another option. If armor is the thing I drop, Nat's

armor may be worth

> looking at with the buffing of Shadow Master and Venom, and the 2 holes for
> PTops for MF duty.

An extra +2 to Venom and SM isn't worth losing the mods on Duress.
Especially if you keep a pair of +3 shadow discipline claws on switch.

> Lance Guard as a shield is under-rated,

It has Deadly Strike, 50 life, and FHR. I'd rather have DR, resists, better
block, and higher def.

> as much as Stormshield is over-rated. Yes, the %blocking is very high on

SS, and it has

> %dr, but what else does it do?

Provides high def, 2 resist boosts, faster block, and a big strength bonus?
With a pdiamond, you get 44% light resist, 79% cold resist, and 19% fire and
poison too. Plus 35 DR(with Fade on, you're basically at max DR and great
resists, even in Hell) Pretty nice, really.

> Any belts that give PMH?

Hwanins does.

> I will miss that mod I think.

Depends on your Open Wounds. Duress has 33%, 10% on Gores, if you use
Fleshripper that's another 50% right there. if you ever switch to Drac's,
that's 25% so if you use Stormlash over Fleshripper that could make up for
it. With high OW, you won't miss PMH.

> Any shields that give OW and DS?

Lanceguard gives 20% DS, that's basically it.

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Stephen van Ham - 30 Nov 2004 03:08 GMT

My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look
good in that trenchcoat:

>Stormlash is a minor drop in CB that can be made up by Venom Grip or Blood
>Gloves. Avg dmg is lower than Stone Crusher. Fleshripper and Fleshrender
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>available substitutes. However, adding Goblin Toes to that setup, while
>putting you over 100, does mean you can play with other gloves.

It will also depend on whether you're using Fade, or Burst of Speed, as your
buffing aura (alongside Venom, which is a given). Gobs + no BOS is pretty
slow for evasionery purposes, which MIGHT be a factor depending on how you're
playing and/or connection quality (are you using cloak of shadows and/mind
blast?) Just something else to ponder.

>Since shiflet was talking about Stormlash's Static going off, I take it that
>CTC on striking is what triggers on BF. This makes gloves like Lavagout very
>very good, as you will be constantly enchanted.

Contrast this with using something *else* in the glove slot, and getting your
enchant from a demon limb, which has charges of level 23 enchant (over 10
minute duration per charge), and costs 9K gold per charge to repair (9K gold
every 10 minutes doesn't seem a stretch).

>Speaking of Stormlash, how important is the Static with 100% CB? Static has
>penalties in hell, and lightning immunes are more prevalent than phys
>immunes. Also, Reaper's will take care of the phys immunes so that CB goes
>off.

>As far as I know, CB has no penalties in Hell.

FYI:

http://www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/weapondamage.html#CrushingBlow

>Dilemma right now is whether to trade for eth Stone Crusher, eth Fleshrender
>and a Pul to up it, or eth Fleshripper.

Comparing eth to eth, Fleshripper is a preferred choice, *if* you can get it.

Fleshrender, 123 STR, level 49, 179-311, 20% deadly strike = 214-373 (293
average), 20% open wounds, 20% crushing blow, prevent monster heal

Fleshripper, 32 STR, 76 DEX, level 68, 88-340, 33% deadly strike = 117-452
(284 average), -50% target defense, prevent monster heal, 25% crushing blow,
50% open wounds

Stonecrusher, 179 STR, level 68, 345-412 (378.5 average), +40% CB, -25% Target
Defense, -100 to Monster Defense Per Hit

On the basis of requirements for late game (dex/str), Fleshripper seems the
shoe in. But, if you've built to use a stormshield, a hel in a stormcrusher
makes it useable, as you've seen with that non eth version we donated
yesterday. Average damage wise, flesh render vs ripper is too close to call,
but stonecrusher has the obvious edge. Then it's 20% CB vs 25 CB vs 40
respectively (the difference there will have varying value depending on other
gear, as others said, don't fixate too much on having 100 CB).

-target defense could be quite a critical part to the equation too, and here
we're -0% ('render), -50% ('ripper'), -25% ('crusher) respectively.
Fleshripper is ahead, and, unless you go for monster strength allocation, you
need to hel the stonecrusher to make it usable, while the other two weapons
can have an eth rune socketed, in which case it's now -25%, -75%, -25% (plus
-100 defense per hit). Fleshripper pretty close to autohitting most stuff now
with those numbers, one would expect. No prevent monster heal on the
'crusher, either (may or may not be an issue). If you've got plenty of
crushing blow elsewhere, if you have access to both, fleshripper over
'crusher, just. Flesh RENDER is a winner in terms of mods versus rarity.

The percentages of open wounds are somewhat academic. With the fast attack
of BF speed (assuming you hit well, remember enough to make it once every 8
seconds), it's basically a consideration of you either have some, or you
don't.

I think I'll be happy enough with my (non eth) stonecrusher, though. Trade
your pul for some gore riders, and use em on a few future builds as well.

If you don't have realistic access to the big guns like astreons, and
stormlash, don't rule out razor's edge either. No crushing blow on that
piece (the big DS value will be of variable value depending on how much DS you
have elsewhere), but good damage, -%defense, and there's a ton of them going
for free (there was two of them on the pubbie mules for a while, for example).

>I am finding that knockback and/or monster flee is very important to this
>build, thus the Cleglaw's gloves. Black has it as a mod. Howltusk therefore
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>this build so far. Maybe hell will be different. I'll be maxing block
>anyway.

Using a Might merc and shadow, and cloak of shadows and mind blast as
appropriate, I've not found knockback a requirement so far at all (same
position in the game as you are). However, I possibly have superior damage
in terms of physical (currently using an eth bartucs), which may translate to
faster kills = less things to get at me. I also use a high level DS after
the first corpse pops to clear the field as quickly as possible, as per the
standard BF approach.

>Any belts that give PMH? I will miss that mod I think. Any shields that give
>OW and DS?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>guess once the merc turns 75 that will change, but in the mean time,
>Frosties? Magefists? Back to Nightsmoke?

Increased mana ball, or increased mana regnen won't help you much unless you
have a reasonable sized "base" mana total. You're better off drinking a blue
potion as needed. Also, due to 1.10 changes, damage taken goes to mana isn't
as useful against mana burners either, plus you have to be hit with a physical
attack for it to trigger, if I recall correctly. Go for PMH, resistances,
life, MDR or whatever else you fancy, in the belt slot.

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