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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / Diablo / November 2004Various ideas on my fledgling furysin
Man these ladies are fun. So far I have 1 pt in all the prereqs, and 2 in blade sentinel. TC and Shiflet were right, this skill is the bomb. However, it looks like the list of mods that carry over to sentinel is considerably smaller, or they only go off occasionally. Gear (lvl 13): Angelic ring, armor and ammy Nagel (couldn't find second Angelic) Hand of Broc (mmmmm dual leech) Snakecord (poison for blades, replen life) Crushflange (hello CB) Umbral Disk (max block, blinds target) I've only seen the poison dmg and occasionally the CB (I think) going to the sentinel. No leech :( No blinds target, not that AR is a problem right now. I have enough points banked to get all the prereqs at 18. Plan is: Max Venom Max Shadow Master enough fade to get max resists in hell 10 in Sentinel ??? I was thinking of dumping the rest in death sentry and synergies, is there a better place? Does sentinel need maxing? I am pumping a lot in dex right now, but slowing down so that I have 70 str for rattlecage at 29. This build gets nasty then, with 'Cage, Venom Grips, and of course the Goblin Toe by then. Questions: If I have a total of 100% CB or more, does that mean it wil definitely trigger every hit? Since I only want 1 point in Blade Fury, and +skills will make it a mana hog, is this a viable mf build? (Less gear dependant) Ali/Rhyme shield on switch, keep 2x angelic ring/ammy for 100mf, nat's armor with 2 PTops (boosts Venom)...decent number right there. Gimmer/Tiamat's ok for endgame? BStar? Eth Baezil's (upped or not)?Eth upped Scalper's? Other choices? Upped Rixot's Keen? j/k Can someone find me a 3s dusk shroud or wyrmhide? Thanks. On a completelt unrelated note, I think I need to restart the PD Necro. Should I be maxing poison dagger first, last, or not at all? The more points that go in, the higher the cost, AND the longer the poison lasts, so it slows killing speed waaaay to much. Thoughts?  SignatureCLans, Jabber, Whatever Who's Da Bitch NOW Someone should put up a sign, or something (Remove your clothes to email) > Man these ladies are fun. So far I have 1 pt in all the prereqs, and 2 in > blade sentinel. TC and Shiflet were right, this skill is the bomb. However, > it looks like the list of mods that carry over to sentinel is considerably > smaller, or they only go off occasionally. Gear (lvl 13): That is correct, less mods trigger with Sentinel than Fury. > I've only seen the poison dmg and occasionally the CB (I think) going to the > sentinel. No leech :( No blinds target, not that AR is a problem right now. > I have enough points banked to get all the prereqs at 18. Plan is: Yeah, no leech with Senti. > Max Venom > Max Shadow Master [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I was thinking of dumping the rest in death sentry and synergies, is there a > better place? Does sentinel need maxing? Sentinel you want to have several going at a time...how many points depends on your connection. If you can keep several up with 10 points, it should be fine. Death Sentry is a good choice, cause the CE is quite handy. Putting a few in FB to give it extra shots isn't a bad idea either. > Questions: > If I have a total of 100% CB or more, does that mean it wil definitely > trigger every hit? It should be, yeah. > Since I only want 1 point in Blade Fury, and +skills will make it a mana > hog, is this a viable mf build? (Less gear dependant) Well, it relies a lot on gear mods like CB/OW/etc, and compared to a lot of builds it's damage is somewhat low, so I'm not sure it'd be a great MF char. > Gimmer/Tiamat's ok for endgame? Should be. Tiamat's will give more damage, but I still prefer sticking with Storm for mine. Gimmers is pretty popular choice for BFsin weapon(if you can get eth ones, even better, will boost your BF physical damage without fear of running out). I still consider Stormlash and Fleshripper ideal, but Gimmers is a very fine choice. > > Man these ladies are fun. So far I have 1 pt in all the prereqs, and 2 in > > blade sentinel. TC and Shiflet were right, this skill is the bomb. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Yeah, no leech with Senti. heh I didn't make a point of that before because I expected it would simply be understood as a given, seeing it's a trap rather than attack. > > Max Venom > > Max Shadow Master [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > fine. Death Sentry is a good choice, cause the CE is quite handy. Putting a > few in FB to give it extra shots isn't a bad idea either. 10 should be fine - you need constant bad lag to require more, at least that's what I found. For sure max DS. > > Questions: > > If I have a total of 100% CB or more, does that mean it wil definitely [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Well, it relies a lot on gear mods like CB/OW/etc, and compared to a lot of > builds it's damage is somewhat low, so I'm not sure it'd be a great MF char. maybe for normal and NM, but DS will be doing most of your killing and a trapper is a good mf char. > > Gimmer/Tiamat's ok for endgame? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of running out). I still consider Stormlash and Fleshripper ideal, but > Gimmers is a very fine choice. heh I think it can only be regarded as a fun build, I even find stormlash underpowered. I have to wait till end of ladder to use a fleshripper, but yep it looks like the second best available weapon, third best a CM eth weapon. > maybe for normal and NM, but DS will be doing most of your killing and a > trapper is a good mf char. Yes, but trappers usually have multiple synergies maxed and actually do damage with the lightning part of their traps, too. A furysin(a real one, not a trapper than uses BF) will be using DS for the CE, not the lightning damage. > > maybe for normal and NM, but DS will be doing most of your killing and a > > trapper is a good mf char. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > not a trapper than uses BF) will be using DS for the CE, not the lightning > damage. agreed, that that CE will net most of the kills if you simply play a furyassn with max DS as the skills demand, rather than harnessing your DS because you deliberately want to make most of your kills using blade skills. > furyassn with max DS as the skills demand, rather than harnessing your DS > because you deliberately want to make most of your kills using blade skills. Well if you use a synergized DS as your main skill, you're a trapper that happens to use BF sometimes, rather than a BF sin. Like a pally that keeps a bow on switch to deal with IM, but doesn't use it otherwise, he's not a ranger, he's a zealot that uses a bow occasionally. > > furyassn with max DS as the skills demand, rather than harnessing your DS > > because you deliberately want to make most of your kills using blade [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > bow on switch to deal with IM, but doesn't use it otherwise, he's not a > ranger, he's a zealot that uses a bow occasionally. where do I say "synergised DS"? > where do I say "synergised DS"? I said a trapper is effective because it's DS does damage besides CE. You said that a furysin would be using DS the same way. But without synergies, DS is worthless aside from CE. > > where do I say "synergised DS"? > > I said a trapper is effective because it's DS does damage besides CE. You > said that a furysin would be using DS the same way. But without synergies, > DS is worthless aside from CE. no, I said DS would pick up most of the kills (due to its CE), if it was maxxed and you used it as such. The static on either CM or storm gets them down to half, then your CE starts coming into its own, killing off most of the crowd. > no, I said DS would pick up most of the kills (due to its CE), if it was > maxxed and you used it as such. But the topic was if a BF sin would be effective as an MFer. I said I doubted it, and you said trappers are effective MFers. I agreed, but said that was partly because trappers traps do actual damage on their own, rather than just the CE. Your reply seemed to read that a correctly built Furysin's traps would be doing the same thing, which apparently wasn't what you'd meant. > > no, I said DS would pick up most of the kills (due to its CE), if it was > > maxxed and you used it as such. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > traps would be doing the same thing, which apparently wasn't what you'd > meant. yes, that wasn't what I meant LOL. I said that if you maxxed DS (no mention of synergies) on a furysin, it would still become your max killer, and we both agree that a mf furysin woiuld be suboptimal to say the least. My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look good in that trenchcoat: >Gimmer/Tiamat's ok for endgame? BStar? Eth Baezil's (upped or not)?Eth upped >Scalper's? Other choices? Upped Rixot's Keen? j/k >Can someone find me a 3s dusk shroud or wyrmhide? Thanks. Stats for a few upgraded (ethereal) exceptional weapons for you to ponder (numbers assume perfect stats, as per adeykes calculator, so level based stats assume max level also): Fleshrender 179-311, 20% deadly strike = 214-373 (293 average), 20% open wounds, 20% crushing blow, prevent monster heal Headstriker, 137-198, 100% deadly strike, 274-396 (335 average), prevent monster heal Heart Carver 202-303, 35% deadly strike = 272-409 (340 average), ignores target defense > My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look > good in that trenchcoat: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Heart Carver 202-303, 35% deadly strike = 272-409 (340 average), ignores > target defense I haven't seen anyone else notice the Heart Carver. I have been using an eth upped Heart Carver socketed with a Nef and it works pretty well in early Hell mode. Last night I found an ethereal small crescent with 3 sockets, exactly what I was hoping to use for Crescent Moon. Now if I could find an Um. -Steve My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look good in that trenchcoat: >Gimmer/Tiamat's ok for endgame? BStar? Eth Baezil's (upped or not)?Eth upped >Scalper's? Other choices? Upped Rixot's Keen? j/k >Can someone find me a 3s dusk shroud or wyrmhide? Thanks. A few more added to previous list: Eth upgraded weapons Coldsteel Eye, 136-241, 50% deadly strike = 204-361 (282 average), hit blinds target, slows target by 30%, 6% mana steal Fleshrender 179-311, 20% deadly strike = 214-373 (293 average), 20% open wounds, 20% crushing blow, prevent monster heal Headstriker, 137-198, 100% deadly strike, 274-396 (335 average), prevent monster heal Heart Carver 202-303, 35% deadly strike = 272-409 (340 average), ignores target defense Non-eth upgraded weapons Butcher's Pupil 144-230, 35% deadly strike = 194-310 (252 average), 25% open wounds My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look good in that trenchcoat: >Gimmer/Tiamat's ok for endgame? BStar? Eth Baezil's (upped or not)?Eth upped >Scalper's? Other choices? Upped Rixot's Keen? j/k >Can someone find me a 3s dusk shroud or wyrmhide? Thanks. Version 3: ;-) Ethereal upgraded weapons (normal to exceptional) Hellplague, 103 STR, 79 DEX, level 30, 27-113 (70 average), 5% mana steal, 5% life steal Ethereal upgraded weapons (exceptional to elite) Atlantean, 137 STR, 114 DEX, level 73, 210-262 (236 average), +50% bonus to attack rating Bartucs Cuththroat, 105 STR, 105 DEX, level 67, 133-248 (190 average), +2 assy/+1 MA, 30% FHR, 20% bonus to attack rating, +20 STR/DEX, 5-9% life steal Coldsteel Eye, 128 STR, 85 DEX, level 52, 136-241, 50% deadly strike = 204-361 (282 average), hit blinds target, slows target by 30%, 6% mana steal Fleshrender, 123 STR, level 49, 179-311, 20% deadly strike = 214-373 (293 average), 20% open wounds, 20% crushing blow, prevent monster heal Headstriker, 137-198, 100% deadly strike, 274-396 (335 average), prevent monster heal Heart Carver, 45 STR, 88 DEX, level 59, 202-303, 35% deadly strike = 272-409 (340 average), ignores target defense Spineripper, 28 STR, 65 DEX, level 50, 130-275 (202 average), ignores target defense, 8% life steal, prevent monster heal, +10 DEX Non-ethereal upgraded weapons (exceptional to elite) Butcher's Pupil 144-230, 35% deadly strike = 194-310 (252 average), 25% open wounds > My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look > good in that trenchcoat: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Butcher's Pupil 144-230, 35% deadly strike = 194-310 (252 average), 25% open > wounds Go man go! I have been thinking of asking what people think works best for a BF weapon. So many choices. I really like the Fleshrender also, but I find even with a Blessed Aim merc, the ITD is pretty handy on Heart Carver. Hitting more often means more CB (and damage) applied per second than perhaps more powerful appearing weapons. Eth fleshrender look like the ideal weapon to me with an ethereal CM weapon coming in second. Toss in lighting charms and Tiamats with the -lightning resist on Crescent Moon and it could be hard to beat. Also, has anyone use their BF assassin to kill SuperDiablo? Is she effective? -Steve > Eth fleshrender look like the ideal weapon to me with an ethereal CM weapon > coming in second. Toss in lighting charms and Tiamats with the -lightning > resist on Crescent Moon and it could be hard to beat. Because of the penalties on ele damage for BF, even with Crescent Moon you won't be doing major lightning damage from charms or anything else. CM is a good BF weapon cause of the static, really. And Stormlash absolutely slays it-cause it gets Static AND Crushing Blow. > Also, has anyone use their BF assassin to kill SuperDiablo? I haven't. Nor would I even try it. > Is she effective? Even if she is(which I STRONGLY doubt, she's not a powerful build at all, she's a fun variant), she won't top a well geared zealot(honestly, you could actually give him basically the exact same gear as a Furysin, and he would make MUCH quicker work out of DClone) , fury druid, hammerdin, or CS javazon. > -Steve >> Eth fleshrender look like the ideal weapon to me with an ethereal CM > weapon [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > good BF weapon cause of the static, really. And Stormlash absolutely slays > it-cause it gets Static AND Crushing Blow. Of course Stormlash would be ideal, but I'm not shiflet and can only dream of having one, let alone an eth one. At level 30 I now have: 2x Angelic ring Angelic Ammy Rattlecage Rare gloves with dual leech (when I twink over a manald, I'll switch to Venom Grip) Eth Bloodrise (Crushflange wasn't cutting it, this does much more damage with less CB and no knockback. Thinking of switching to Face of Horror to make up for the lack of knockback) Is there a better choice at 30? Bloodletter? Goblin Toe rare belt with +mana, FHR (essential I feel given that BF is interruptible) and maybe a resist Biggin's (about to be FoH I think) Umbral Disk (Still max block...) The amazing thing is she has not died yet. At all. I think she may need Fleshrender (barbed club not fanged knife) for a while. Then again, I can't use that til 45, and I need something NOW. I have a Baezil's waiting to try out, eth to boot. Even Black, which I really wanna try, is 35, though I can last that long simply by doing Baals. Other suggestions? And how would I find out the level reqs for making Black in, say, a knout or naga? Is Duress really better than Rattlecage? -18% Cb to gain open wounds looks like a bit of a risky trade...What level should I try crafting Blood gloves with? Can any level get the 10 CB? Final setup right now (planned): Guillaume's (35 cb) Blood gloves with 10 CB (and hopefully dual leech) rings with AR and MF Eth Black scourge/zerker axe (40 cb) Duress (15 cb for 100 total) whitstans with PD (unless fade is OK) Goblin Toe/Gores Razortail Gimmers/Tiamats on switch (if CB doesn't affect PIs) Since I can easily top 100 cb, I have options (TGV for example, or Trang gloves to boost Venom dmg) >> Is she effective? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > make MUCH quicker work out of DClone) , fury druid, hammerdin, or CS > javazon. For someone who has no Zealot, I would try the furysin vs DClone only when Shadow Master and Merc were old enough to tank. Last night, with 58% CB, and damage maxing out at 50, this gal made short work of Diablo, Izzy, and Baal minions, with help of course. Still, by the time she's even able to meet Mr Uber, that CB will be going off all the time. SignatureCLans, Jabber, Whatever Who's Da Bitch NOW Someone should put up a sign, or something (Remove your clothes to email) > Of course Stormlash would be ideal, but I'm not shiflet and can only dream > of having one, let alone an eth one. You said the IDEAL weapon was an eth Fleshrender, with an eth CM second best weapon. IDEAL doesn't require you be able to get them, just that they're the best. And the IDEAL BF sin weapon is eth Stormlash. Eth CM is certainly on the list, but if we're talking the IDEAL weapon, eth Stormlash beats it. FYI, the ideal weapon for my PvM zealot is an eth Zod'ed 300% Stormlash, but I don't have one either, and that's something I can only dream of having. Wasn't saying you should get one or that getting one is in any way realistic, just saying that if we're talking IDEAL weapons, eth Stormlash beats eth CM. > Is Duress really better than Rattlecage? -18% Cb to gain open wounds looks > like a bit of a risky trade... You lose 10 CB, not 18(was probably a typo) to gain 33 OW(at high levels, it actually does some real damage, BTW)...and a crapload of defense. And FHR. And resists. And 37-133 cold damage. And last of all, 10-20% enhanced damage. The tradeoff is more than worth it as long as you can afford the Um. Not to mention, if you get tired of the BFsin, Duress makes a GREAT armor for a zealot(or smiter), frenzybarb, kicksin, or fury druid, so it could easily find another character to fit to. Plus, it depends on your setup. The "recommended" BF sin setup is something like Guillame's+Duress+Gore Riders. That's 65% CB right there, 75% if you use Goblins over Gores. Stormlash would add 33%, Fleshripper would add 25%, Fleshrender would add 20%, so you're pretty high up in the numbers anyways. Looking at your setup below, the tradeoff is definitely worth it. > Final setup right now (planned): > Guillaume's (35 cb) Ideal. > Blood gloves with 10 CB (and hopefully dual leech) If you can get them, I'd recommend Dracs. Sure, you'll lose 10 CB, but the Lifetap is worth it(even if you don't take many hits it still helps, plus your merc and your butch shadow will dig it). And as a bonus, you get some plain leech and a big time OW bonus. > rings with AR and MF I'd recommend a Ravenfrost here as one ring, if you can. You get the always nice CBF, a big AR boost, PLUS a big dex boost further adding AR. And some extra cold damage to boot. > Eth Black scourge/zerker axe (40 cb) A fine choice, Black is a very nice BFsin weapon that doesn't cost hardly anything(getting the right weapon will be the hard part). > Duress (15 cb for 100 total) Ideal. > whitstans with PD (unless fade is OK) I'm partial to Stormshield, but it may not be something you just have laying around, so Whistans should be fine. > Goblin Toe/Gores Ideal. > Razortail Blade Fury can't pierce, so really all you're getting from this is some AR from the dex boost. I'd go Verdungos if you can afford it, SoE or TGods if not. > Gimmers/Tiamats on switch (if CB doesn't affect PIs) CB indeed does not affect PIs. > For someone who has no Zealot, I would try the furysin vs DClone only when > Shadow Master and Merc were old enough to tank. Last night, with 58% CB, and > damage maxing out at 50, this gal made short work of Diablo, Izzy, and Baal > minions, with help of course. Still, by the time she's even able to meet Mr > Uber, that CB will be going off all the time. Yeah, but the CB gets less effective as he weakens, and eventually, you gotta be dealing some reasonable damage of some sort to kill him. With his resists your venom and ele damage will be taking a big hit, and with his block rate and physical resist, your physical damage will be taking a punch. If you can keep your merc alive(Dracs can go a LONG way to helping there) and have him well armed, and keep your shadow recasted they may be able to finish him off, but it's still a bit of a risk compared to fighting with a zealot, fury wolf, strong barb, kicker, smiter, or CS zon. >> Of course Stormlash would be ideal, but I'm not shiflet and can only >> dream [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > realistic, just saying that if we're talking IDEAL weapons, eth Stormlash > beats eth CM. Not to nitpick, but someone else said the ideal part. I'm talking about stuff I have or could realistically get. 3s scourge/zerker shouldn't be too hard to get should it? Even non-eth would be fine. I can live with Gimmers/Scalpers/CM/anything else until I find it. Is it worth the Io to put Black in, say, a legendary mallet? >> Is Duress really better than Rattlecage? -18% Cb to gain open wounds >> looks [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > for a zealot(or smiter), frenzybarb, kicksin, or fury druid, so it could > easily find another character to fit to. I thought Rattler was 33, it's 25 instead. That makes it much better as a tradeoff. I could swear there's an item that gives OW, CB and something else (PMH? DS?) but that name of it escapes me. I think there's an armor that does similar too, but that may be Duress I'm thinking of. Wonder what the dex req is for max block on a whitstan's... > Plus, it depends on your setup. The "recommended" BF sin setup is > something [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > anyways. > Looking at your setup below, the tradeoff is definitely worth it. How hard are Gores to find? I'd rather have the other mods on that than the extra 10 cb on goblin, and as long as cb is at 100 who cares? >> Final setup right now (planned): >> Guillaume's (35 cb) > > Ideal. And almost ready for it. By the way, which merc? I have a Reaper's I want to use, but if something else is better, like a barb, I can live with that. >> Blood gloves with 10 CB (and hopefully dual leech) > > If you can get them, I'd recommend Dracs. Sure, you'll lose 10 CB, but the > Lifetap is worth it(even if you don't take many hits it still helps, plus > your merc and your butch shadow will dig it). And as a bonus, you get some > plain leech and a big time OW bonus. If merc has Tal's hat/Reaper's, and my blood gloves have dual leech or I'm wearing String, then how essential is the Life Tap? I can always recast the SM. I'm maxing her, right? >> rings with AR and MF > > I'd recommend a Ravenfrost here as one ring, if you can. You get the > always > nice CBF, a big AR boost, PLUS a big dex boost further adding AR. And some > extra cold damage to boot. I had planned on it but forgot to include it. Maybe Dwarf as the other ring? Got a Saracen's too for my ammy, since +skills are dangerous. Also have a scintillating ammy of the whale... >> whitstans with PD (unless fade is OK) > > I'm partial to Stormshield, but it may not be something you just have > laying around, so Whistans should be fine. How about, and don't laugh, a crafted Safety shield? I have one with 10% magic resist somewhere...worth it? >> Razortail > > Blade Fury can't pierce, so really all you're getting from this is some AR > from the dex boost. I'd go Verdungos if you can afford it, SoE or TGods if > not. Got both TGV and String, also a Nos for the slows target if that works. Sentinel automatically pierces, right? >> Gimmers/Tiamats on switch (if CB doesn't affect PIs) > > CB indeed does not affect PIs. Decrep from a Reaper does though :) > Yeah, but the CB gets less effective as he weakens, and eventually, you > gotta be dealing some reasonable damage of some sort to kill him. With his [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > finish him off, but it's still a bit of a risk compared to fighting with a > zealot, fury wolf, strong barb, kicker, smiter, or CS zon. Still, of the chars I have, she has the best shot, barring maybe the frenzybarb. Some more questions: Is an accidental point in blade shield or whatever reason for a remake? I figure switching to Gimmers to cast it shouldn't be too bad, as they're not eth. How desparate for AR am I likely to be? I was planning on leaving dex at 109...but I have no problem with maxing block. How bad is it to put more than 1 pt in fury if I have the mana leech to support it? SignatureCLans, Jabber, Whatever Who's Da Bitch NOW Someone should put up a sign, or something (Remove your clothes to email) > >> rings with AR and MF > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Got a Saracen's too for my ammy, since +skills are dangerous. Also have a > scintillating ammy of the whale... Highlords if you can get one would be ideal. -Steve > Not to nitpick, but someone else said the ideal part. I'm talking about > stuff I have or could realistically get. 3s scourge/zerker shouldn't be too > hard to get should it? You have to actually find one, or use the socketing recipe to get it and hope you get lucky and get 3 sockets. You can't just find a regular one and go to Larzuk. > Is it worth the Io to put Black in, say, a legendary mallet? Sure, since BF doesn't rely on IAS, any big 1 hander should be okay. > I thought Rattler was 33, it's 25 instead. That makes it much better as a > tradeoff. I could swear there's an item that gives OW, CB and something else > (PMH? DS?) but that name of it escapes me. The only things I can recall offhand is Fleshrender and Gore Riders. > How hard are Gores to find? Well, I've got them coming out the wazoo. So many that I've given a couple pairs away, have one on every melee char I use, and have about 8 sitting on mules. > I'd rather have the other mods on that than the > extra 10 cb on goblin, and as long as cb is at 100 who cares? I'd prefer Gores too. > And almost ready for it. By the way, which merc? I have a Reaper's I want to > use, but if something else is better, like a barb, I can live with that. A barb is (IMO) NEVER better than an act 2 merc, heh. I'd get either a might or a holy freeze, and use the Reaper's. > If merc has Tal's hat/Reaper's, and my blood gloves have dual leech or I'm > wearing String, then how essential is the Life Tap? Lifetap works at full effect against gloams, skeleton archers, Diablo, and other enemies that you either can't leech from or can barely leech from, so it's well worth it. Especially since as a ranged attacker, gloams and archers are the things most likely to hit you. > I can always recast the SM. I'm maxing her, right? Right. But you don't wanna lose her at a critical time either, if possible. Shouldn't happen often though. > I had planned on it but forgot to include it. Maybe Dwarf as the other ring? I'd try for a dual leech rare, probably. > Got a Saracen's too for my ammy, since +skills are dangerous. Also have a > scintillating ammy of the whale... I'm partial to Atma's Scarab or Highlords(Atma's better normally, but if merc has Reaper's it's not so useful). > How about, and don't laugh, a crafted Safety shield? I have one with 10% > magic resist somewhere...worth it? Depends on the other mods...10% magic resist isn't normally worth it IMO, how many enemies deal magic damage? Snakes with their spear, okies with spirit, and I think Frenzytaurs have some, but others? > Got both TGV and String, also a Nos for the slows target if that works. Any would work, I'd probably try all three and see what worked best for you. > Sentinel automatically pierces, right? Right. > Decrep from a Reaper does though :) Indeed. > Still, of the chars I have, she has the best shot, barring maybe the > frenzybarb. A frenzybarb would be recommended over the 'sin too;-) > Some more questions: > > Is an accidental point in blade shield or whatever reason for a remake? Nah, some BFers use it anyways as long as they don't have an eth weapon. > I > figure switching to Gimmers to cast it shouldn't be too bad, as they're not > eth. How desparate for AR am I likely to be? AR can be problematic, though if you use an ITD weapon it can help a lot. > I was planning on leaving dex at > 109...but I have no problem with maxing block. > How bad is it to put more than 1 pt in fury if I have the mana leech to > support it? Well, it won't hurt, really, it just won't help a ton either. Still, you have points to spare, so... > > Not to nitpick, but someone else said the ideal part. I'm talking about > > stuff I have or could realistically get. 3s scourge/zerker shouldn't be [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > it's well worth it. Especially since as a ranged attacker, gloams and > archers are the things most likely to hit you. I never felt myself wanting life tap, and I felt that the -def on drainers, the slow on clegs and CB on crafts were more advantageous to me. > > I can always recast the SM. I'm maxing her, right? > > Right. But you don't wanna lose her at a critical time either, if possible. > Shouldn't happen often though. I'd prefer not to max her, 17 with skills gets you to her good gear and she won't be dying on you. This allows the extra points to go into fade. > > I had planned on it but forgot to include it. Maybe Dwarf as the other > ring? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'm partial to Atma's Scarab or Highlords(Atma's better normally, but if > merc has Reaper's it's not so useful). also same for LT gloves ;) > > How about, and don't laugh, a crafted Safety shield? I have one with 10% > > magic resist somewhere...worth it? [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Well, it won't hurt, really, it just won't help a ton either. Still, you > have points to spare, so... max your block, every little extra to AR helps > I never felt myself wanting life tap, and I felt that the -def on drainers, > the slow on clegs and CB on crafts were more advantageous to me. CB on crafts not needed for me, as I'd have nearly 100% CB without them. > I'd prefer not to max her, 17 with skills gets you to her good gear and she > won't be dying on you. This allows the extra points to go into fade. Well, I had points in fade anyways, heh. > also same for LT gloves ;) In a lot of situations, I'd prefer LT over Decrep, but since Decrep and Amp have basically the same effect, having Decrep makes Amp kinda redundant. > > I never felt myself wanting life tap, and I felt that the -def on > drainers, > > the slow on clegs and CB on crafts were more advantageous to me. > > CB on crafts not needed for me, as I'd have nearly 100% CB without them. As I said, defaults are SDs, which I think is a far superior glove to dracs for a furysin, especially when dealing with end bosses. COS + lvl17 SM offer the merc enough protection for him not to need LT. > > I'd prefer not to max her, 17 with skills gets you to her good gear and > she [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > In a lot of situations, I'd prefer LT over Decrep, but since Decrep and Amp > have basically the same effect, having Decrep makes Amp kinda redundant. the trouble is that you don't get to choose, you'll be overwriting one with the other. > As I said, defaults are SDs, which I think is a far superior glove to dracs > for a furysin, especially when dealing with end bosses. COS + lvl17 SM > offer the merc enough protection for him not to need LT. I consider Soul Drainers a complete waste, like Dracs, but without the one mod that makes Dracs super. Plus I absolutely despise CoS and prefer not to use it if I can avoid it. > the trouble is that you don't get to choose, you'll be overwriting one with > the other. Yes, but it doesn't matter as the curses aren't redundant, Amp and Decrep are. > > As I said, defaults are SDs, which I think is a far superior glove to > dracs [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I consider Soul Drainers a complete waste, like Dracs, but without the one > mod that makes Dracs super. it's the -80 def per hit (or whatever the exact number is with the drainers) which makes them effective. If you haven't tried them and would like to test them out, I'm happy to lend you a pair. > Plus I absolutely despise CoS and prefer not to use it if I can avoid it. ok, this changes things, if you don't use Toll, because you will be taking far more hits. But most furysins use it, and for good reason. So if you're not using a normal key skill and make a recomendation towards gear which is effected by this, then you should state so. Otherwise, the recommendation seems a bit odd. (Easy enough oversight though, done it enough times myself). > > the trouble is that you don't get to choose, you'll be overwriting one > with > > the other. > > Yes, but it doesn't matter as the curses aren't redundant, Amp and Decrep > are. not sure what you mean here as we're talking about now. If he's using a reapers toll, as he states he wants to use. Then he's using it for the decrep, that means he'll either be overwriting the LT with decrep (lowering the value of dracs) or overwriting decrep with LT which negates the use of toll. This makes dracs in such a scenario have substantially less benefit, or become a hindrance. > it's the -80 def per hit (or whatever the exact number is with the drainers) > which makes them effective. If you haven't tried them and would like to > test them out, I'm happy to lend you a pair. I have a pair, I don't use them cause the -def isn't all that helpful and otherwise, they're a toned down Dracs. And the C2C weaken makes them even worse. > ok, this changes things, if you don't use Toll, because you will be taking > far more hits. But most furysins use it, and for good reason. I use CoS if necessary, but otherwise avoid it. Many times it's not necessary, though at times it is. > not sure what you mean here as we're talking about now. If he's using a > reapers toll, as he states he wants to use. Then he's using it for the > decrep, that means he'll either be overwriting the LT with decrep (lowering > the value of dracs) or overwriting decrep with LT which negates the use of > toll. This makes dracs in such a scenario have substantially less benefit, > or become a hindrance. You only need LT to cast occasionally, usually it will be overwritten quickly, but that's okay as you don't need it casted continually. So having both is good. Having Amp and Decrep casting is not as useful, cause they both confer such a similar effect. > > it's the -80 def per hit (or whatever the exact number is with the > drainers) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > otherwise, they're a toned down Dracs. And the C2C weaken makes them even > worse. heh I find the -def rather useful, but then again, you're using claws IIRC, and thus have mastery coming into effect. Not having the benefit of CM with my stormlash, or before that the CM sword, I find that the -def per hit does help. Fair enough with the weaken with regards to the toll for the same reason as dracs, otherwise weaken is niether here nor there; that's why she has the other two gloves at her disposal - not having weaken overwrite other people's curses. The clegs are helpful with small groups of variant builds, the extra %CB when in larger groups. > > ok, this changes things, if you don't use Toll, because you will be taking > > far more hits. But most furysins use it, and for good reason. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > both is good. Having Amp and Decrep casting is not as useful, cause they > both confer such a similar effect. never found that I wished for LT, let alone needed it on a fury assn. If I was using a toll on my merc, or amp on ammy I wouldn't want it overwritten at any time due to CE on DS. >> heh I find the -def rather useful, but then again, you're using claws IIRC, > and thus have mastery coming into effect. Not having the benefit of CM with > my stormlash, or before that the CM sword, I find that the -def per hit does > help. True, I use claws, but I've also tried(and like) other weapons, and it doesn't get mastery bonus. Does depend on dex and items too though. > never found that I wished for LT, let alone needed it on a fury assn. If I > was using a toll on my merc, or amp on ammy I wouldn't want it overwritten > at any time due to CE on DS. I don't want CE to be my ONLY killer. If I did, I'd play a CE necro. And when facing gloams or archers, I'd much prefer LT to Decrep or Amp. > > Of course Stormlash would be ideal, but I'm not shiflet and can only dream > > of having one, let alone an eth one. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > realistic, just saying that if we're talking IDEAL weapons, eth Stormlash > beats eth CM. I said that. > > Blood gloves with 10 CB (and hopefully dual leech) > > If you can get them, I'd recommend Dracs. Sure, you'll lose 10 CB, but the > Lifetap is worth it(even if you don't take many hits it still helps, plus > your merc and your butch shadow will dig it). And as a bonus, you get some > plain leech and a big time OW bonus. Those are nice. If, like me, you don't have those the blood items are nice. It is pretty easy to get a decent glove and belt that will add CB, life steal, and OW. I don't think stacking OW is nearly as important as with CB, Static, and DS. The 8 second timer and fast attack rate will keep foes wounded even with a little OW. > > whitstans with PD (unless fade is OK) > > I'm partial to Stormshield, but it may not be something you just have > laying around, so Whistans should be fine. I am using a Rhyme heater until I get a Raven. It is pretty nice also. > > For someone who has no Zealot, I would try the furysin vs DClone only when > > Shadow Master and Merc were old enough to tank. Last night, with 58% CB, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > finish him off, but it's still a bit of a risk compared to fighting with a > zealot, fury wolf, strong barb, kicker, smiter, or CS zon. Well, I don't have a zealot, wolf, barb, or smiter. My CS zon does not seem strong enough to take him so I thought the BF assassin would be my best bet. I haven't built a kicker since the ladder reset, so maybe that would be a good option for me. How is a kicker better than a BF assassin? They have very similar setups. Is it just the attack rate or am I missing something? -Steve > I don't think stacking OW is nearly as important as with CB, Static, and DS. > The 8 second timer and fast attack rate will keep foes wounded even with a > little OW. OW is used for the damage as well as the PMH effect. > Well, I don't have a zealot, wolf, barb, or smiter. My CS zon does not seem > strong enough to take him What level is she? If you've maxed CS and the synergies and have good resists, she's strong enough to take him. Keep a LR wand on switch and she can kill him VERY fast. > How is a kicker better than a BF assassin? They have > very similar setups. Is it just the attack rate or am I missing something? Only cause of the speed. > -Steve > > I don't think stacking OW is nearly as important as with CB, Static, and > DS. > > The 8 second timer and fast attack rate will keep foes wounded even with a > > little OW. > > OW is used for the damage as well as the PMH effect. true, but the damage effect last for 8 seconds. As long as you trigger an OW every 8 second, additional chance to wound shouldn't help. > > Well, I don't have a zealot, wolf, barb, or smiter. My CS zon does not > seem [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > resists, she's strong enough to take him. Keep a LR wand on switch and she > can kill him VERY fast. She is 67 and has maxed CS and LS. She is working on LF now as I spent a few points in passives to improve her tanking. > > How is a kicker better than a BF assassin? They have > > very similar setups. Is it just the attack rate or am I missing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > -Steve > >> Eth fleshrender look like the ideal weapon to me with an ethereal CM > > weapon [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > last that long simply by doing Baals. Other suggestions? And how would I > find out the level reqs for making Black in, say, a knout or naga? Try Clegaws set. It is a pretty nice starter for a BF assassin. -Steve > >> Eth fleshrender look like the ideal weapon to me with an ethereal CM > > weapon [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Of course Stormlash would be ideal, but I'm not shiflet and can only dream > of having one, let alone an eth one. At level 30 I now have: run baal. I started hunting for a stormlash just before starting my furysin, I got lucky and had one drop by baal as my fiorst unique scourge just as she was entering a5 hell. If you are going to trade for one, beware as people will attempt to cam you. > 2x Angelic ring > Angelic Ammy [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Biggin's (about to be FoH I think) > Umbral Disk (Still max block...) get two shadow claws on switch - a terribly important part of the setup. For level 30, I think your choices in gear are, how do you say it? Very wrong. I had no problems getting through normal and nm on gear which I largely found (apart from an itial twink of angels and the Will). You can do normal and NM on brute damage alone, going CB at this stage is far less efficient. IIRC at 30 I was using 2 claws which dropped, one had very good lightning damage and the other big poison. Keep an eye out for those big damage wands etc. because elemental weapons work very well at this stage. I had a tiamuts packed but didn't use it till hell. > The amazing thing is she has not died yet. At all. I think she may need > Fleshrender (barbed club not fanged knife) for a while. Then again, I can't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > like a bit of a risky trade...What level should I try crafting Blood gloves > with? Can any level get the 10 CB? yes, even with the +6 fade on switch. DEon't underestimate OW when you get to a decent level. > Final setup right now (planned): > Guillaume's (35 cb) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Razortail > Gimmers/Tiamats on switch (if CB doesn't affect PIs) I hate goblin toes - too too slow, go gore riders if you have them, for weapon get an eth CM, static *really* helps with the crowds and then your DS takes over. Shield, I used tia a long time, but ended up going SS as final gear. The difference in kill speed is a little noticeable but the difference in safety using SS is far more noticeable. > Since I can easily top 100 cb, I have options (TGV for example, or Trang > gloves to boost Venom dmg) For belt nof's coil gloves was by far my hardest choice. I ended with 3 pairs which I'd swap between. Default gloves = soul drainers, alternates a crafted dual leech 9% CB with resists and clegals. > >> Is she effective? > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > minions, with help of course. Still, by the time she's even able to meet Mr > Uber, that CB will be going off all the time. I think she'd go pretty well against the clone, but I never tried her as I had a couple of chars last ladder who could rip his head off without raising a sweat even on their mercs. My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look good in that trenchcoat: >Of course Stormlash would be ideal, but I'm not shiflet and can only dream >of having one, let alone an eth one. At level 30 I now have: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Biggin's (about to be FoH I think) >Umbral Disk (Still max block...) Sounds like you're having fun, which is all that counts. My setup at level 47 and quite different from yours, and really is overkill. Ethereal bartucs Sigons hat and gloves Angelic amulet and ring Manald Duriel's Shell Mosers with two diamonds IK belt Nat's boots Normal attack rating is about 3300. I'll lose a lot of that when I switch out the 'tucs for something else (loss of claw mastery bonus), so they'll be a demon limb for enchant buffing added later if necessary. I've decided to go for a Might mercenary instead of Blessed Aim. You'll notice no crushing blow in the above setup - I don't need it yet. snip > Ethereal bartucs > Sigons hat and gloves [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You'll notice no crushing blow in the above setup - I don't need it yet. yep agree entirely on damage for normal and NM, far more efficient than CB at this stage. On merc choice, I went rogue as she doesn't disrupt the CoS. > > Eth fleshrender look like the ideal weapon to me with an ethereal CM > weapon [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > good BF weapon cause of the static, really. And Stormlash absolutely slays > it-cause it gets Static AND Crushing Blow. Too bad. Well, I am still excited to try Crescent Moon. I have been using an ITD weapon for a while and last time I checked, my chance to hit in Hell was not too good. It I hit maybe 75% of the time with a Stormlash and 95% with a CM weapon, I will not get the full benefit of the extra CB and might get fewer statics. Stormlash definitely looks better for boss killing, but it still looks pretty close for regular monsters. That is my sour grapes rationalization. Maybe that will change when I find a Raven. -Steve >>Also, has anyone use their BF assassin to kill SuperDiablo? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >>-Steve Actually, with the proper equipment, a Furysin can solo a diablo clone... The key of course being the static and CB effects. But I have known a few players who played furysins back before the last reset who did indeed solo the DC. My my, doesn't "Steve W" <stwysongREMOVE@sbcglobal.net> look good in that trenchcoat: >Eth fleshrender look like the ideal weapon to me with an ethereal CM weapon >coming in second. Toss in lighting charms and Tiamats with the -lightning >resist on Crescent Moon and it could be hard to beat. Yeah, if one doesn't have a "leet" weapon like a fleshripper, stormlash, astreons, death cleaver etc, available, the upgraded eth fleshrender looks pretty appealing. But I'm actually considering the possibility of assembling king slayer in an ethereal ettin axe (273 average physical damage, -25% target defense, 33% crushing blow, 25% open wounds, prevent monster heal, that's the highest physical damage of the one handers, according to the calc, and of course, speed is irrelevant for BF). I guess, given the runes required, it's considering a "leet minus" weapon, hehe. My my, doesn't Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> look good in that trenchcoat: >Yeah, if one doesn't have a "leet" weapon like a fleshripper, stormlash, >astreons, death cleaver etc, available, the upgraded eth fleshrender looks [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >course, speed is irrelevant for BF). I guess, given the runes required, it's >considering a "leet minus" weapon, hehe. I forgot to mention also that king slayer in a small crescent is only a couple of points in damage less than the ettin axe, and requires 30 less strength. Of course, given that I'm planning to use a stormshield, I'll have strength for either anyway. My my, doesn't Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> look good in that trenchcoat: >My my, doesn't "Steve W" <stwysongREMOVE@sbcglobal.net> look good in that >trenchcoat: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >course, speed is irrelevant for BF). I guess, given the runes required, it's >considering a "leet minus" weapon, hehe. 50% open wounds as well, of course, on KS, not 25%. Bleh. My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look good in that trenchcoat: >Gimmer/Tiamat's ok for endgame? BStar? Eth Baezil's (upped or not)?Eth upped >Scalper's? Other choices? Upped Rixot's Keen? j/k >Can someone find me a 3s dusk shroud or wyrmhide? Thanks. Weapon data, version 4: Ethereal upgraded weapons (exceptional to elite) Atlantean, 137 STR, 114 DEX, level 73, 210-262 (236 average), +50% bonus to attack rating * Bartucs Cut-Throat, 105 STR, 105 DEX, level 67, 133-248 (190 average), +2 assy/+1 MA, 30% FHR, 20% bonus to attack rating, +20 STR/DEX, 5-9% life steal * Coldsteel Eye, 128 STR, 85 DEX, level 52, 136-241, 50% deadly strike = 204-361 (282 average), hit blinds target, slows target by 30%, 6% mana steal Earthshaker, 179 STR, level 68, 210-254 (232 average), knockback, hit blinds target Fleshrender, 123 STR, level 49, 179-311, 20% deadly strike = 214-373 (293 average), 20% open wounds, 20% crushing blow, prevent monster heal Headstriker, 132 STR, 102 DEX, level 65, 137-198, 100% deadly strike, 274-396 (335 average), prevent monster heal Heart Carver, 45 STR, 88 DEX, level 59, 202-303, 35% deadly strike = 272-409 (340 average), ignores target defense Spineripper, 28 STR, 65 DEX, level 50, 130-275 (202 average), ignores target defense, 8% life steal, prevent monster heal, +10 DEX Notes: Bartucs Cut-Throat, being a claw, benefits from any claw mastery that the assassin has (remember it also has +2 assassin skills also, so you'd have level 3 claw mastery minimum, if you had claw mastery has a pre-req for a 'shadow), plus it has +20% attack rating. Coldsteel Eye has interesting mods such as its great attack speed, and hit blinds target, but because Blade Fury is independent of weapon speed anyway, and because an assassin has the option of Cloak of Shadows, these two mods aren't relevant to the comparison. It's still competitive on the physical damage side, although it lacks useful mods such as crushing blow and open wounds. Non-ethereal upgraded weapons (exceptional to elite) Butcher's Pupil 144-230, 35% deadly strike = 194-310 (252 average), 25% open wounds Standard "optimal" elites Astreon's Iron Ward, 87 STR, 60 DEX, level 66, 365-411 (388 average), slows target by 25%, +150-200% attack rating, 80-240 magic damage, 33% crushing blow Baranar's Star, 143 STR, 34 DEX, level 65, 192-237 (214 average), +200% attack rating, 1-600 elemental damage Death Cleaver, 128 STR, 49 DEX, level 70, 136-402, 66% deadly strike = 225-667 (446 average), -33% target defense, +6-9 life per kill Fleshripper, 32 STR, 76 DEX, level 68, 88-340, 33% deadly strike = 117-452 (284 average), -50% target defense, prevent monster heal, 25% crushing blow, 50% open wounds Stormlash, 115 STR, 67 DEX, level 62, 16-480 (248 average), 1-473 lightning, 33% crushing blow, chance to cast static on striking Rune words "Black" (40% crushing blow, +200 AR): Non ethereal knout 28-77 (52 average physical damage) Ethereal knout 41-114 (77 average) Non ethereal scourge 6-176 (91 average) Ethereal scourge, 115 STR, 67 DEX, level 57, 8-264 (136 average), 40% crushing blow, +200 attack rating, knockback Ethereal legendary mallet, 179 STR, level 61, 165-200 (182 average), 40% crushing blow, +200 attack rating, knockback "Kingslayer" (-25 target defense, 33% crushing blow, 50% open wounds, prevent monster heal): Axes: Ethereal berserker axe = 262 average physical damage Ethereal ettin axe = 273 average Ethereal small crescent = 271 average Ethereal war spike = 216 average Swords: Ethereal cryptic sword = 225 average Ethereal conquest sword = 247 average > My my, doesn't "Chris Lansdell" <clansdell@your.nf.clothes.sympatico.ca> look > good in that trenchcoat: [quoted text clipped - 83 lines] > Ethereal cryptic sword = 225 average > Ethereal conquest sword = 247 average Great work. I wish we could "sticky" this. -Steve My my, doesn't "Steve W" <stwysongREMOVE@sbcglobal.net> look good in that trenchcoat: >Great work. I wish we could "sticky" this. Hehe, there's been a lot of content from a lot of people over the years that I wish we could "sticky'. :-( > Man these ladies are fun. I played one back before ladder reset up into the high 70's, very fun and different. > Gimmer/Tiamat's ok for endgame? BStar? Eth Baezil's (upped or not)?Eth upped > Scalper's? Other choices? Upped Rixot's Keen? j/k > Can someone find me a 3s dusk shroud or wyrmhide? Thanks. Hard to find, but a Stormlash on a Furysin is simply disgusting, if you can manage to swing one, get one, you won't be disappointed, imho. |
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