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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / Diablo 2 / August 2004How to make a MA-assassin ?
I made one back in 1.09 and if i remember correctly i had Phoenix Strike, Tiger Strike, Shadow Master & Claw Mastery maxed. Gear was : Full Natalay's 4-diamond monarch Some rare rings and amu I have some questions for this build 1. C/C (with weapon block) or C/S 2. Go with full natalya's or rather Bartuc's, or another unique Claw 3. If C/S what should blocking be ? 60 ? or max to 75 ? 4. I know melee chars are more of a challenge in 1.10 (from experience) but would a MA still be able to play in hell ? All help, hints, informations and comment is welcome (and needed) Tora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tora" <koerotora@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: alt.games.diablo2 Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: How to make a MA-assassin ? > I made one back in 1.09 and if i remember correctly i had Phoenix Strike, > Tiger Strike, Shadow Master & Claw Mastery maxed. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > 4. I know melee chars are more of a challenge in 1.10 (from experience) but > would a MA still be able to play in hell ? I have a MA Assasin with the following setup: claw mastery: 20 claws of thunder (main skill): 20 phoenix (backup for light imunes): 20 weapon block: 2 (to get around 40% block with items) blades of ice (synergy to phoenix): rest 1 in: burst of speed, fade, each finisher, prereqs finisher: dragon claw: 1+ IMO the clue to hell is a defense merc. Equipment: I use uniques because natalyas claw is missing :( rockstopper (PerfectRuby), jade talon, firelizards talon (ETH), upgraded duriels (UM), string, natalyas boots, +2 blue amu, rare res all ring, rare res life leech ring, rare +2 MA IAS MF gloves. You don't need shadow master as MA assa. Its a waste of points :o) HTH Walt > I made one back in 1.09 and if i remember correctly i had Phoenix Strike, > Tiger Strike, Shadow Master & Claw Mastery maxed. > Gear was : > Full Natalay's > 4-diamond monarch > Some rare rings and amu > I have some questions for this build > 1. C/C (with weapon block) or C/S > 2. Go with full natalya's or rather Bartuc's, or another unique Claw > 3. If C/S what should blocking be ? 60 ? or max to 75 ? > 4. I know melee chars are more of a challenge in 1.10 (from experience) but > would a MA still be able to play in hell ? > All help, hints, informations and comment is welcome (and needed) * Disclaimer * This is more than half theoretical as I became bored of my second MA assy at level 46. 1. Personally I would go C/S for the resists and additional blocking. 2. I have a Natalya's trapsin with a minor in blade fury and I have to say that the high damage ITD claw is pretty nice. However, I'd still go with Bartuc's, upgraded gorerider, duriels or something. Basically, I think a 'sin can do better than Natalya's. 3. 75%... why not? 4. Well, I don't see why not - she has good crowd control skills with Mindblast, Cloak of Shadows, Third charge of phoenix and potential for high damaging multi-elemental attacks. I believe Chainbreaker said he made Guardian with one in the previous ladder. Build: Max Phoenix strike Max Dragon talon Max Fists of fire 1 point in blade fury, mind blast and cloak of shadows. A few points in Death Sentry (or from a claw on switch) Shadow master and claw mastery to taste. * Rationale * Fists of Fire synergy - You can land meteors at least 50% quicker than lighting strikes (charge, release rather than charge charge release) and the probability of hitting the wrong charge is that much lower. Don't be fooled by the damage looking smaller. Not to mention the fact that all the CoT charges have been nerfed beyond belief :( All the most dangerous critters are lightning immune ;) Max dragon talon - Max Dragon talon gives you an awesome boss killer. Keep a black knout / scourge in your stash. It also has the huge AR boost that you'll need to be able to reliably release your charges. Blade fury / Death Sentry When you get to the chaos sanctuary, you'll appreciate having a ranged attack. Ian <snip> > 1. Personally I would go C/S for the resists and additional blocking. What shield would be good then ? Ward ? SS ? > 2. I have a Natalya's trapsin with a minor in blade fury and I have > to say that the high damage ITD claw is pretty nice. However, > I'd still go with Bartuc's, upgraded gorerider, duriels or > something. Basically, I think a 'sin can do better than Natalya's. Got Bartuc's, Firelizard and Jade Talon Duriel's upg maybe ? > 3. 75%... why not? 75% it is > Build: > > Max Phoenix strike > Max Dragon talon > Max Fists of fire > 1 point in blade fury, mind blast and cloak of shadows. Will do that :) > A few points in Death Sentry (or from a claw on switch) NO DS for me, want this to be a pure MA, and as i consider Blade Fury a martial art :) , i will put 1 point in it > Shadow master and claw mastery to taste. No shadow and max claw mastery, i think Thanks for your clear and detailled explanation. Already building the char based on your comments.. Tora > <snip> > > 1. Personally I would go C/S for the resists and additional blocking. > > What shield would be good then ? Ward ? SS ? I always like a Moser's with 2 PDiamonds, but a nice Ward would be good too. I don't think I'd take strength high enough to use a Storm Shield. Remember that claws gain a 50% damage bonus from *either* dex or str and dex is ever so much more useful (better AR, better blocking). > Got Bartuc's, Firelizard and Jade Talon I really like Bartuc's - it is a great claw. For an elemental MA-sin +skills are really quite useful. I don't know the stats on the other claws but I can't believe they would beat out Bartuc's. > Duriel's upg maybe ? Hmmm... without a defense boosting skill, you'll struggle to get enough defence to make a difference in my opinion. Keep the str requirements as low as possible. Mind you, if upg Duriel's needs less str than upg Goreriders and you have plenty of runes, why not. > NO DS for me, want this to be a pure MA, and as i consider Blade Fury a > martial art :) , i will put 1 point in it Fair enough :) (I always think of BF as an MA skill too) > > Shadow master and claw mastery to taste. > No shadow and max claw mastery, i think I'd really recommend at least 1 point in shadow master. With two +3 shadow disciplines claws on switch pre-buffing her to at least 7 she is an invaluable castable tank in a variety of situations. Although I'd still prefer a valk. > Thanks for your clear and detailled explanation. > Already building the char based on your comments.. You're welcome. Ian >><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > *either* dex or str and dex is ever so much more useful (better AR, > better blocking). Where do you have the info for that. According to arreat summit only bows and crossbows got damage from dex, unless i missed something. or Thrown and Melee Weapons: Final_Min_Damage = Weapon_Min_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100 Final_Max_Damage = Weapon_Max_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100 For Bows and Crossbows: Final_Min_Damage = Weapon_Min_Damage * (Dex + 100) / 100 Final_Max_Damage = Weapon_Max_Damage * (Dex + 100) / 100 from http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/characters.shtml > [snip]  SignatureSonni > Where do you have the info for that. > According to arreat summit only bows and crossbows got damage from dex, > unless i missed something. > or Thrown and Melee Weapons: > Final_Min_Damage = Weapon_Min_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100 > Final_Max_Damage = Weapon_Max_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100 > For Bows and Crossbows: > Final_Min_Damage = Weapon_Min_Damage * (Dex + 100) / 100 > Final_Max_Damage = Weapon_Max_Damage * (Dex + 100) / 100 > from http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/characters.shtml Hmmm... interesting. For my sins (no pun intended), I got the information from diabloii.net. The following page lists Bartuc's as getting 75% from str/dex. I remember pumping dex and getting an increase in damage listed in the lying character screen although I don't rely on my memory too much anymore. http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:_rITblBR8psJ:www.diabloii.net/items/uniques /class-asn.shtml+diabloii.net+bartuc%27s+unique&hl=en They also claim that daggers get a bonus from str/dex and amazon spears get a 70/30% bonus and various other things. No idea how accurate they are though. A lot of people seem to claim that purely dex affects the damage calculation for throwing weapons. Ian Okay... for 'a lot of people' you can just read "Msr. Bridou" ;) >> Where do you have the info for that. >> According to arreat summit only bows and crossbows got damage from [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:_rITblBR8psJ:www.diabloii.net/items/uniques /class-asn.shtml+diabloii.net+bartuc%27s+unique&hl=en I'm so lucky, or what we should call, to have a assassin and bartucs and i need to pump her dex so she can use it, so i guess i can see something when i play with her. > They also claim that daggers get a bonus from str/dex and > amazon spears get a 70/30% bonus and various other things. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Okay... for 'a lot of people' you can just read "Msr. Bridou" ;) Shouldn't that be miss bridou >>> Where do you have the info for that. >>> According to arreat summit only bows and crossbows got damage from [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> an increase in damage listed in the lying character screen >> although I don't rely on my memory too much anymore. http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:_rITblBR8psJ:www.diabloii.net/items/uniques /class-asn.shtml+diabloii.net+bartuc%27s+unique&hl=en > I'm so lucky, or what we should call, to have a assassin and bartucs and > i need to pump her dex so she can use it, so i guess i can see something > when i play with her. >> They also claim that daggers get a bonus from str/dex and >> amazon spears get a 70/30% bonus and various other things. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> Okay... for 'a lot of people' you can just read "Msr. Bridou" ;) > Shouldn't that be miss bridou May some diligent person introduce her to me? Maybe I could help her discover a new meaning to the verb "to shriek" :P Throwing weapon damage stats ED is (str+dex)*0.75% When used in melee, the statsED is str*1% So as far as dealing damage is concerned, 1 point in strength = 1 point in dexterity. More in Strength and you'll be able to wear heavier armours, more points in dex and you'll have a better attack rating. >>>> Where do you have the info for that. >>>> According to arreat summit only bows and crossbows got damage from [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > in dexterity. More in Strength and you'll be able to wear heavier > armours, more points in dex and you'll have a better attack rating. And where do you have that info from ? Just wanna know since blizzard says something different. Or a very good reason they should publish uncorrect facts :) SignatureSonni >>>>> Where do you have the info for that. >>>>> According to arreat summit only bows and crossbows got damage from [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>>> an increase in damage listed in the lying character screen >>>> although I don't rely on my memory too much anymore. http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:_rITblBR8psJ:www.diabloii.net/items/uniques /class-asn.shtml+diabloii.net+bartuc%27s+unique&hl=en >>> I'm so lucky, or what we should call, to have a assassin and bartucs >>> and i need to pump her dex so she can use it, so i guess i can see [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> in dexterity. More in Strength and you'll be able to wear heavier >> armours, more points in dex and you'll have a better attack rating. > And where do you have that info from ? > Just wanna know since blizzard says something different. > Or a very good reason they should publish uncorrect facts :) hehe ..in the MPQs. all daggers, all throwing weapons, all javelins except amazon javelins and all assassin claws get (str+dex)*0.75% stat bonus. all hammers and mauls (NOT clubs nor maces nor flails nor staves nor scepters) get str*1.1% stat bonus. all boots get str*1.2% stat bonus when kicking all amazon specific items (amajav, amapike and amaspear) get str*0.8%+dex*0.3% stat bonus all other weapons and all shields get str*1% stat bonus. all other items get 0% stat bonus :) My guess is, Blizzard wanted to keep it secret, or they just forgot... > And where do you have that info from ? > Just wanna know since blizzard says something different. > Or a very good reason they should publish uncorrect facts :) sorry, erratum, double-checked my previous answer, it seems amazon items get str*0.8%+dex*0.5% stat bonus (I think I wrote str*0.8+dex*0.3% in the previous post...) > sorry, erratum, > > double-checked my previous answer, it seems amazon items get > str*0.8%+dex*0.5% stat bonus (I think I wrote str*0.8+dex*0.3% in the > previous post...) Well, it's a damned good thing you cleared *that* mistake up! :D Signaturechainbreaker-who thinks all those formulas look like some lost language, hehe If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it. > Throwing weapon damage stats ED is (str+dex)*0.75% This is correct. > When used in melee, the statsED is str*1% This one is not. Melee damage is calculated the same way as in throwing weapon formula. You'll get increase in damage by raising str OR dex, it doesn't matter. Every 133 points invested in str OR dex will double your weapon base damage, melee or throwing. Or my throw barb char screen is lying. >>Throwing weapon damage stats ED is (str+dex)*0.75% > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > weapon base damage, melee or throwing. > Or my throw barb char screen is lying. I think you're right. my mistake, thanks. > I have some questions for this build > > 1. C/C (with weapon block) or C/S C/S is usually more durable since it makes getting resists easier, but if you can get a jade talon (40% resist all), then C/C can make sense. > 2. Go with full natalya's or rather Bartuc's, or another unique Claw Full Nats just isn't the uber set it used to be. You can get more +skills from different claws and hats, more kick damage from different boots, and nat's armor is heavy so it'll slow you down. 30% damage reduction is nice, but you can get that much from shaftstop alone, and damage reduction is capped at 50% these days. And 1.10 introduced better runewords. > 3. If C/S what should blocking be ? 60 ? or max to 75 ? The rule of thumb is to max it or not at all, so go for 75. > 4. I know melee chars are more of a challenge in 1.10 (from experience) but > would a MA still be able to play in hell ? In softcore with lots of good items, sure. My singleplayer MA assassin wears a delirium helm, and since she attacks so many times per second, the enemies are constantly confused. Cloak of shadows is also your friend. It's definitely harder than playing a caster, however, and your only two splash-damage skills are dragon tail and death sentry, so it's slower going. > > 1. C/C (with weapon block) or C/S > > C/S is usually more durable since it makes getting resists easier, but > if you can get a jade talon (40% resist all), then C/C can make sense. Got 2 jade talon. Would those and weapon block be as good as a Bartuc's and a shield ? > > 2. Go with full natalya's or rather Bartuc's, or another unique Claw > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > damage reduction is capped at 50% these days. And 1.10 introduced > better runewords. What items are we talking here ? Got some examples ? > > 3. If C/S what should blocking be ? 60 ? or max to 75 ? > > The rule of thumb is to max it or not at all, so go for 75. 75 it is > > 4. I know melee chars are more of a challenge in 1.10 (from experience) but > > would a MA still be able to play in hell ? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > however, and your only two splash-damage skills are dragon tail and > death sentry, so it's slower going. Making a pure MA here, no hybrid, so no traps > > > 1. C/C (with weapon block) or C/S > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Got 2 jade talon. Would those and weapon block be as good as a Bartuc's and > a shield ? Their resistance would be as good, but of course there are other considerations. Weapon block is superior insofar as it can block elemental attacks and paladins' smite attack, which shields can't. Also, weapon block is independent of dexterity, so as long as you maintain enough attack rating to hit monsters consistently, you won't have to waste as many points in dex and can put them in vit instead. On the other hand, it's slower than shield blocking (no "faster block rate"), so it's easier to get stuck in block lock when monsters are attacking you from all sides; and you'll never get your weapon block percentage above 60%, so you'll be blocking fewer attacks. If you do go with two claws, use one bartucs and one jade talon, unless you really do need the extra 40 resists. > > > 2. Go with full natalya's or rather Bartuc's, or another unique Claw > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > What items are we talking here ? Got some examples ? For starters, none of the unique claws besides bartucs was around before 1.10. Though I don't personally like it much as a claw, chaos runeword claw was also introduced and is probably superior to nat's claw. Delirium is a better helm for a martialarts assassin, and any of the high-end runeword armors (enigma, chains of honor, stone) is an improvement over nat's armor. Shadowdancer and sandstorm trek unique boots were both introdued with 1.10, and both are superior to nat's boots. And now that the fade skill makes you look ethereal, nat's only remaining cool feature (useless but spiffy graphics) doesn't apply anymore. > > > 4. I know melee chars are more of a challenge in 1.10 (from experience) > but [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Making a pure MA here, no hybrid, so no traps Well, good luck to you then. Like I said, it'll be slow going. > "Tora" <koerotora@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> Making a pure MA here, no hybrid, so no traps > > Well, good luck to you then. Like I said, it'll be slow going. Anybody who can bypass BF with a MA assy has much more willpower than me. I've started a few "pure" MA assys with good intentions but always succumbed to that one "trap" skill. :-) And claw blocking got a very high level HC MA assy of mine killed once. Since then I've foregone dual claws for claw/shield with excellent results. Signaturechainbreaker If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it. > > "Tora" <koerotora@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >> Making a pure MA here, no hybrid, so no traps [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > chainbreaker Hehehe, me too! So far I'm lvl 30, just starting NM. I've cleared the Den and killed Blood Raven, and I've been able to resist up to this point. It helps that I've not kept any skill points in reserve, so when I get a point I already have a place for it. At this rate I'll be able to waste the points by the time I'm level 65 or so, because I still want to max Shadow Master and Dragon Flight. Well, unless DF costs more mana at higher levels. If it does I might just split between Fade and CoS 10/10. short > max Shadow Master and Dragon Flight. Well, unless DF costs more mana > at higher levels. If it does I might just split between Fade and CoS > 10/10. It's been a while since I played one, but as I recall, DF became much easier to use the higher the level. I'm not saying it costs less mana--I don't remember. It's sort of like how whirwind isn't even worth putting on a hotkey until you have about 10 or so levels in it. Even so, I ended up using DF mostly just simply to "teleport". But it's a skill that can get you killed if you're not paying close attention, and I'm not even sure I'd use it at all for another HC assy if I ever do another one. Signaturechainbreaker If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it. > > max Shadow Master and Dragon Flight. Well, unless DF costs more mana > > at higher levels. If it does I might just split between Fade and CoS [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > you're not paying close attention, and I'm not even sure I'd use it at all > for another HC assy if I ever do another one. I usually just use it on those Imps and Gloams. I'm hoping 20 points into it will let me 1-hit kill those Black Souls etc. short >> It's sort of like how whirwind isn't even worth putting on a hotkey >> until you have about 10 or so levels in it. Even so, I ended up [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I usually just use it on those Imps and Gloams. I'm hoping 20 points > into it will let me 1-hit kill those Black Souls etc. It probably will--one. But then what do you do about his twenty mana-burning buddies you've just Dragon Flown into the midst of? :-) Signaturechainbreaker > >> It's sort of like how whirwind isn't even worth putting on a hotkey > >> until you have about 10 or so levels in it. Even so, I ended up [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > But then what do you do about his twenty mana-burning buddies you've just > Dragon Flown into the midst of? :-) Well, they're going to be CoS'd, and I'm going to start kicking the crap out of them. I forget, do they have a melee attack they switch to when you're up close? short >>> I usually just use it on those Imps and Gloams. I'm hoping 20 >>> points into it will let me 1-hit kill those Black Souls etc. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > crap out of them. I forget, do they have a melee attack they switch > to when you're up close? I'm pretty sure they do, but couldn't tell you what it is. Signaturechainbreaker If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it. > I made one back in 1.09 and if i remember correctly i had Phoenix Strike, > Tiger Strike, Shadow Master & Claw Mastery maxed. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > All help, hints, informations and comment is welcome (and needed) The best MA tree skill in 1.10 is Dragon Talon. For several reasons: 1) Fastest melee attack in the game (think repeated application of crushing blows and elemental damage from other gear). 2) Physical damage to a single target can be very good (better per unit time than using Tiger Strike + any finisher) 3) Conserves skill points since it doesn't depend on synergies or other finishers 4) Leechs immediately without charge-ups 5) Helps get a quick first kill for death sentry. Builds based on Dragon Talon and Death Sentry are good in 1.10. Nat's set isn't good for a kicker because it has modest damage boots and doesn't have crushing blow. Also, if you wanted to play a traditional claw oriented MA build with Nat's in 1.10, I would add some shaels in the armor and helm for faster hit recovery, which is very important for the assassin in 1.10 (or else you could get FHR from charms). |
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