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Game Forum / Role Playing Games / Diablo 2 / October 2006

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OT;  Guild Wars: Nightfall first thoughts

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Polarhound - 30 Oct 2006 05:42 GMT
This is NOTHING like Factions was.  It is also well beyond Prophecies.

Some of the battles can almost be considered epic in scale.  I just
completed the Consulate Docks mission solo.  My team consisted of
myself, 3 heros (1 Healing Monk, 1 Warrior, 1 Dervish/Necro,) 4
Henchies, and about 30 Sunspear warriors (some of which summon their own
minions by the half dozen) in an assault on Kourna which included
dealing with as many as 15-20 enemies at once.

Like Prophecies, there are many side quests.  UNLIKE Prophecies,
side-quests (and Master level quests) are connected.  For every major
side quest, there are 3-4 additional quests chained to it that flesh out
the story VERY well.  Some of these are required to move forward in the
game.  There is much less station-to-station missions spread out.

The new monsters and skins are amazing.  When they said the system
requirements were double of the two previous episodes, they weren't
kidding.  My Barton 2500+/256mb X850Pro/1.5GB RAm were taxed fairly well
in heavily-animated combat and towns at mid to upper graphics settings.
 It's not unplayable, however.

Highly recommended.
Polarhound - 30 Oct 2006 05:44 GMT
> This is NOTHING like Factions was.  It is also well beyond Prophecies.
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Highly recommended.

To give you an idea of the NUMBER of quests (these don't include the
required Missions), check here.   SPOILERS IN LINK.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Quests_%28Nightfall%29
Shiflet - 30 Oct 2006 14:52 GMT
> This is NOTHING like Factions was.  It is also well beyond Prophecies.

Yeah, massive improvement over Factions.

> Some of the battles can almost be considered epic in scale.  I just
> completed the Consulate Docks mission solo.  My team consisted of myself,
> 3 heros (1 Healing Monk, 1 Warrior, 1 Dervish/Necro,)

Heros and hero controls are one of THE best improvements in the entire game.
They offer TONS of flexibility and allow all sorts of hench possibilites
that didn't exist before. Now if I need a tank, I can load Koss down with
Gladiator's Defense, Watch Yourself, Bonetti's Defense, Dolyak Signet and
watch him shrug off damage like it's nothing. If there's an imporant NPC(or
tank) I need to keep alive, I can set one of the monk heros up as a
Bonder/Prot monk and bond the NPC to give them incredible survivability. And
if I'm going in a heavily populated area, I can bring along Olias and set
him up as a minion master to help even in the odds. They've already turned
the tide in several battles, during one, my paragon was faced with a monk
boss whose healing was simply too much for me and Koss to outdamage...until
Koss disabled the boss' Orison of Healing with Disrupting Chop, then
interrupted the boss' Healing Breeze with Distracting Blow. Not to mention,
by having access to EVERY skill you've unlocked on your account, you can get
some VERY potent skill setups early on(my ranger hero went out packing
Barrage, Savage and Distracting Shot, Screaming Shot, Marauder's Shot, Throw
Dirt, Whirling Defense, and a rez skill, all at level 11, my own ranger was
way past level 20 by the time he had all those skills). My only complaint
about them is now I gotta take the time to get weapons and runes for all the
heros I use regularly, heh.

> 4  Henchies, and about 30 Sunspear warriors (some of which summon their
> own minions by the half dozen) in an assault on Kourna which included
> dealing with as many as 15-20 enemies at once.

Yeah, I took my ranger in there just to test and I was totally surprised at
the sheer number of forces involved in the battle.

> Like Prophecies, there are many side quests.  UNLIKE Prophecies,
> side-quests (and Master level quests) are connected.  For every major side
> quest, there are 3-4 additional quests chained to it that flesh out the
> story VERY well.

No kidding. Just when I think I've completed every quest on the starter
island, I go back to some other location that had no quests for me
originally, and find that the last quest I finished has now opened up a new
quest or two.

>  Some of these are required to move forward in the game.  There is much
> less station-to-station missions spread out.

Yeah, I got quests all over the place...I like that they have you go
backwards as well as forwards as well, no more "finish every quest in city,
never have to return to city again" feelings.

> The new monsters and skins are amazing.

Yeah, there's some nice new stuff all around.

Another improvement I like is the ability to save your builds, and adjust
your secondary profession at any town. My ranger has PvE setups for
Barrage/Pet(R/Mo), Barrage/Interrupt(R/Mo), Dedicated Interrupter(R/Mo),
Hammer Ranger(R/W), Runner(R/Mo), Vigorous Barrage farmer(R/Mo), Touch
Ranger(R/N), Spear Thrower(R/P), and others, not to mention a couple of
alternate versions of some of the above builds for using in Alliance
Battles/Fort Aspenwood, and changing between them used to be a chore. Had to
map to Senji's Corner/Crystal Desert, change professions, adjust attributes,
reset skill bar, change weapons, and map back to original location just to
switch from say interrupter to toucher. Now I just hit "load template",
select "PvE Toucher", and voila, my secondary is automatically changed, my
attributes are set to the correct levels, my skillbar is loaded with the
toucher skills instead of interrupts, and then all I gotta do is swap
weapons in my stash and I'm good to go. So convenient, especially for
characters who have a wide variety of builds.

> When they said the system requirements were double of the two previous
> episodes, they weren't kidding.  My Barton 2500+/256mb X850Pro/1.5GB RAm
> were taxed fairly well in heavily-animated combat and towns at mid to
> upper graphics settings. It's not unplayable, however.

I've noticed a bit more lag in some places, but mostly runs pretty smoothly
for me.
Polarhound - 31 Oct 2006 00:56 GMT
>> This is NOTHING like Factions was.  It is also well beyond Prophecies.
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> about them is now I gotta take the time to get weapons and runes for all the
> heros I use regularly, heh.

Don't forget that you can change the secondary class of all heroes,
along with their skills, at any time.  My Dervish, for example, augments
her battle-line healing with Well Of Blood from her Necro secondary.

If you really want some meat shields, you can always set them all to
Ranger secondary and charm them all up a pet.

>> 4  Henchies, and about 30 Sunspear warriors (some of which summon their
>> own minions by the half dozen) in an assault on Kourna which included
>> dealing with as many as 15-20 enemies at once.
>
> Yeah, I took my ranger in there just to test and I was totally surprised at
> the sheer number of forces involved in the battle.

Did you find all 3 callers?  I only got two the first time around.

>> Like Prophecies, there are many side quests.  UNLIKE Prophecies,
>> side-quests (and Master level quests) are connected.  For every major side
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> originally, and find that the last quest I finished has now opened up a new
> quest or two.

I still need to go back and clean out a bunch of them in Elona.  I
haven't done the Mime quest-tree yet, and it apparently culminates with
a huge battle in the Keys.

> Another improvement I like is the ability to save your builds, and adjust
> your secondary profession at any town. My ranger has PvE setups for
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> weapons in my stash and I'm good to go. So convenient, especially for
> characters who have a wide variety of builds.

I haven't gotten into the templates yet.  Then again, I tend to play a
single character through the game, then start anew.  This is my first
time with an Air Elementalist in any episode, for example.
Shiflet - 31 Oct 2006 03:20 GMT
> Don't forget that you can change the secondary class of all heroes, along
> with their skills, at any time.  My Dervish, for example, augments her
> battle-line healing with Well Of Blood from her Necro secondary.

Most of my heros go with monk secondary, so they can have a hard rez, and
perhaps Mend Ailment/Remove Hex/Smite Hex, since those skills don't actually
require points in monk attributes to serve their purpose

> If you really want some meat shields, you can always set them all to
> Ranger secondary and charm them all up a pet.

Heh, that would make quite the army.

> Did you find all 3 callers?  I only got two the first time around.

I found all three, but I didn't go after one of them as I was in a hurry to
finish.

> I still need to go back and clean out a bunch of them in Elona.  I haven't
> done the Mime quest-tree yet, and it apparently culminates with a huge
> battle in the Keys.

Yeah, I've done a lot of that, there's quite a few things to do in that
line.

> I haven't gotten into the templates yet.  Then again, I tend to play a
> single character through the game, then start anew.

I vary my character's skills according to what's most useful for the
mission/quest. If I'm in an area with a lot of spellcasters(or at least a
few really lethal ones), I might load my skillbar with more interrupts(the
Unwaking Waters mission in Factions for example), if I'm in an area with
high armored enemies, I might focus on more damage skills that ignore armor,
if I'm in an area with heavy melee damage, I might use a build setup with a
lot of block/evade skills(admittedly, my ranger has unlocked EVERY
non-Nightfall ranger skill, so I like to experiment with different setups).

>  This is my first time with an Air Elementalist in any episode, for
> example.

I've never used an air setup, my ele is generally a cookier cutter fire
nuker, but I've also used an earth based build...I need to take my ele to
Elona and see what new skills I can get for him...
Polarhound - 31 Oct 2006 06:16 GMT
>>  This is my first time with an Air Elementalist in any episode, for
>> example.
>
> I've never used an air setup, my ele is generally a cookier cutter fire
> nuker, but I've also used an earth based build...I need to take my ele to
> Elona and see what new skills I can get for him...

Nukers in general have been nerfed with the AoE AI changes.  With my Air
E, I am wearing out my Ctrl-Shift-Spacebar combination to call out
targets for my mini army while dealing out Gale on spellcasters and
Lightning Strike (iirc) for weakness on melee groups.  What I REALLY
need to go is get Chain Lightning at some point :)

The biggest buffs are on the Glyphs.  Individual attunement glyphs run
for well beyond their recharge timer at higher levels (57 seconds at 13
Air with 45 second recharge for Air Attunement,) Glyph of Elemental
Power stays active for 5 spells while Glyph of Lesser Energy works for 2
spells.

It gets to the point where you start debating just how few attacks to
actually take with you because of all the buffs.  After loading up with
AoE, GoAA, GOLE, GOEP, hard res and Gale, that leaves room for only two
more attacks.  I've taken to leaving Lesser Energy off for now as I
rarely run out of energy even at 10 ES.
Shiflet - 31 Oct 2006 07:54 GMT
> Nukers in general have been nerfed with the AoE AI changes.

They still work okay, just requires a little....adjustment, you might say.

>  With my Air E, I am wearing out my Ctrl-Shift-Spacebar combination to
> call out targets for my mini army while dealing out Gale on spellcasters

Yeah, I'm playing a paragon, so half the time I'm expected to call targets,
so I wind up being the caller a lot. Not my ideal role, actually, as I
prefer to be spreading conditions while someone else calls(of my 5 attacks,
Vicious Strike and Cruel Spear can both cause Deep Wound, Barbed Spear
causes Bleeding, and Blazing Spear causes Burning, plus I can use Anthem of
Flame to cause mass burning)

> and Lightning Strike (iirc) for weakness on melee groups.

Enervating Charge, actually, Lightning Strike just deals damage;-)

> What I REALLY need to go is get Chain Lightning at some point :)

Yeah, might be nice.

> The biggest buffs are on the Glyphs.  Individual attunement glyphs run for
> well beyond their recharge timer at higher levels (57 seconds at 13 Air
> with 45 second recharge for Air Attunement,) Glyph of Elemental Power
> stays active for 5 spells while Glyph of Lesser Energy works for 2 spells.

Yeah, I love the Glyph buffs. With Elemental Attunement, Fire Attunement,
and Glyph of Lesser Energy I basically never run out of energy, even casting
25 energy spells.

> It gets to the point where you start debating just how few attacks to
> actually take with you because of all the buffs.

Indeed. Warriors and paragons have similar decisions, with all the new
shouts, chants, echoes, etc. I can already see PvP spike teams and
Barrage/Pet Tombs/FoW teams upgrading the standby Orders necro to an Orders
necro/paragon combo making use of "Go For the Eyes!" and "Find Their
Weakness!" to further the spike damage...

>  After loading up with  AoE, GoAA, GOLE, GOEP, hard res and Gale, that
> leaves room for only two more attacks.  I've taken to leaving Lesser
> Energy off for now as I rarely run out of energy even at 10 ES.

Yeah, air spells aren't quite as costly as some of the fire and earth
spells, so it's not needed as badly there.
Anestis - 31 Oct 2006 06:26 GMT
Polarhound wrote [31.10.06]:

> Did you find all 3 callers?  I only got two the first time around.

Is that the bonus? May be you have killed one of them (the first, who
unlocks the bonus) to early.

Noticed that in the second try of the mission. Had killed him, bonus
unlocked, told me that there were still three to kill ;-( Restarted
the mission and killed first all his companions. Only then the bonus
unlocked, then I killed him.

> I haven't gotten into the templates yet.  Then again, I tend to play
> a single character through the game, then start anew.  This is my
> first time with an Air Elementalist in any episode, for example.

I have quite a restricted knowledge of all the various skills of all
the professions. Makes it a little study each time to decide how to
build my heroes.

Signature

Anestis

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter.
Try again. Fail again. Fail better. (Beckett)

 
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