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Game Forum / Nintendo / GameCube / February 2004

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IGN story on Online Gaming for Nintedo...

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Asianflow - 13 Feb 2004 23:54 GMT
http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1

Iwata continued to criticize the online business model. "Many people believe
that online games are the next big thing. But I wonder how much revenues
Microsoft and Sony have made from online games," he said and added, "I don't
think the current online games have adopted the right business model, and
people will not pay money for them."

Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand for
it.
Adnan - 14 Feb 2004 00:45 GMT
> http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand for
> it.

I don't think that many people make use of the connectivity feature (and
sometimes it should never have been used like with FF:CC) but that's not
stopping Nintendo. I wonder why Iwata doesn't use the same kind of logic
regarding GBA-GC connectivity.

Adnan
El Guapo - 14 Feb 2004 02:45 GMT
> > http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> stopping Nintendo. I wonder why Iwata doesn't use the same kind of logic
> regarding GBA-GC connectivity.

Probably because unlike online game development, it doesn't cost much to add
GBA connectivity.
victorious newman - 14 Feb 2004 11:49 GMT
third party online support would be expensive yes but to throw in online
options on games with preconstructed engines seems to be logical and
enexpensive
El Guapo - 14 Feb 2004 15:07 GMT
> third party online support would be expensive yes but to throw in online
> options on games with preconstructed engines seems to be logical and
> enexpensive

Seems to be, but isn't.
Adnan - 14 Feb 2004 21:11 GMT
> > > http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Probably because unlike online game development, it doesn't cost much to add
> GBA connectivity.

I know that already but I wish Iwata would stop BS-ing about why they
haven't implemented online gaming yet and just admit that they're just
too cheap and focused purely on profits instead of claiming that online
isn't popular yet.

I think it's very short-sighted of Nintendo to be overlooking online
gaming and even worse to be making such stupid public declarations
regarding it. The only thing this will achieve is reinforce the negative
image that Nintendo isn't willing to keep up with the latest innovations
and technologies, and instead is only focused on obtaining the maximum
amount of profits with the least amount of spending.

I was already pissed when they started to milk the GBA-GC connectivity
feature (when such a feature was unnecessary) in Metroid Prime and
Animal Crossing. In FF:CC, Nintendo reaches a new level in greed IMO.

With no "official" online feature in Mario Kart: DD and FF:CC requiring
4 GBAs and 4 cables to enjoy it to the fullest, Nintendo is definitely
not making any efforts in confronting the image that Nintendo is stuck
in the past.

This doesn't mean I don't love Nintendo or its products. I just can't
stand seeing Nintendo being so blind and in denial regarding the failure
of their current business strategy and the negative publicity they are
getting because of it.

Adnan
El Guapo - 14 Feb 2004 22:22 GMT
> > > > http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> too cheap and focused purely on profits instead of claiming that online
> isn't popular yet.

I don't know, that's pretty much what they're saying.  The idea is that it
isn't popular enough to make money on it yet, and for the most part, that
seems to be true.  Especially when it comes to consoles.  I think Sony and
MS are focusing on online gaming as having a strategic value, and they may
be right.

> I think it's very short-sighted of Nintendo to be overlooking online
> gaming and even worse to be making such stupid public declarations
> regarding it. The only thing this will achieve is reinforce the negative
> image that Nintendo isn't willing to keep up with the latest innovations
> and technologies, and instead is only focused on obtaining the maximum
> amount of profits with the least amount of spending.

I agree, and I've made that point before.  Even if they think online gaming
is not worth the effort, do they have to sabotage the efforts of other
companies who might want to do it on the Gamecube?  Do they need to go out
of their way to discourage gamers who might want it?  I think they are
making a mistake when they make those kinds of comments.

> I was already pissed when they started to milk the GBA-GC connectivity
> feature (when such a feature was unnecessary) in Metroid Prime and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> of their current business strategy and the negative publicity they are
> getting because of it.

I don't think they have realized yet that people don't enjoy being told what
it is that they want, especially when they have multiple choices.  They just
need to learn how to hold back their comments on the direction of the
industry and simply present their products in the best possible light.  If
they feel that people want simpler games and are tired of the hardware race,
then PROVE it through products and sales, not comments that get printed and
misunderstood.  Sometimes people want one thing but want to hear another.
So there's no reason to sabotage your efforts by giving people false
impressions, or saying things that will give you a bad image.
Scott - 16 Feb 2004 03:23 GMT
>I was already pissed when they started to milk the GBA-GC connectivity
>feature (when such a feature was unnecessary) in Metroid Prime and
>Animal Crossing. In FF:CC, Nintendo reaches a new level in greed IMO.

Made me glad I had an Action Replay for the Cube since I don't have a GBA
(screen's WAY too tiny for me to see) and could still unlock the original
Metroid. Now playing GBA games with the player is fun but obviously I'm not
going to have 2 Cubes (1 with player) just for "connectivity extras".

Signature

Scott

Delameko Stone - 16 Feb 2004 10:13 GMT
> I know that already but I wish Iwata would stop BS-ing about why they
> haven't implemented online gaming yet and just admit that they're just
> too cheap and focused purely on profits instead of claiming that online
> isn't popular yet.

Hmm, a corporation that's into profits...  Share holders that want to see
money... whatever is the world coming to...

Popular would indicate a large number of people are willing to pay what they
ask... From what I hear, neither ms or sony are doing stellar business in
that area.  Most people are unwilling (or unable) to pay a fee every month
when they also have standard internet fees, mobile phone fees, credit card
payments etc.
Valar Morghulis - 14 Feb 2004 00:46 GMT
> http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand for
> it.

How many X-Box's were sold, and how many players are there online for X-Box?
What percentage of X-Box owners play online?
Asianflow - 14 Feb 2004 01:24 GMT
> > http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> > Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> How many X-Box's were sold, and how many players are there online for X-Box?
> What percentage of X-Box owners play online?

I'd be interested in a survey of all gamers if they had the choice would
they rather have online gaming for the console or a connectivity feature
between a console and a handheld. What's a better feature a death match of
Halo 2 online or unlocking 5 Madden cards.
J_Highlight - 14 Feb 2004 02:54 GMT
> I'd be interested in a survey of all gamers if they had the choice would
> they rather have online gaming for the console or a connectivity feature
> between a console and a handheld. What's a better feature a death match of
> Halo 2 online or unlocking 5 Madden cards.

It's easy to predict the answer to that question.  That's like asking who
prefers Internet access or his home LAN.

If Nintendo doesn't want online play, fine.  I wish they would focus the
effort used on GBA connectivity on further improving the individual games
themselves like Silicon Knights did with MGS:TS.  That would increase sales
more than connectivity.
victorious newman - 14 Feb 2004 11:46 GMT
i have to weigh in on this topic myself Nintendo is my system of choice
and always has been but they are severely fooling themselves if they
think the public doesnt like online gaming the only thing that deverted
time from my N64 was segas dreamcast with unreal tournament online was
awesome and also nintendos first party titles are ideal for online
gaming ie; mario cart,party,tennis,golf, it would probably be less
expensive yet more profitable to add online features and dump the
connectivity crap and also to have a machine thats capable of online but
refuses to follow the trend is like driving an 8 cylinder vehicle on
only 4 cylinders
Adnan - 14 Feb 2004 21:31 GMT
> > > http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> > > Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> between a console and a handheld. What's a better feature a death match of
> Halo 2 online or unlocking 5 Madden cards.

Another question I'd like to ask is whether gamers would prefer a game
without any connectivity features (so that all the bonus features and
perks would simply be available without connectivity) or one that does,
regardless of whether it was online or not. Games like Metroid Prime,
Animal Crossing and FF:CC come to mind.

In other words, whether the game has an online feature or not, would
gamers prefer the games to support GC-GBA connectivity or not?

In my opinion, I don't mind if a game does support connectivity as long
as nothing is lost from the game if it's not used. Making this feature
optional (Splinter Cell) instead of essential (FF:CC) would be best.

And enough with using GBA-GC connectivity as an "unlocking" tool, like
with Metroid Prime. Now that's just lame. The only thing worse is the
E-reader feature in Super Mario Advance 4, Super Mario Bros 3.

Adnan
victorious newman - 15 Feb 2004 22:00 GMT
id take online over connectivity any day maybe if we start a online
petition we could change nintendos minds
Phil - 16 Feb 2004 10:09 GMT
> > > http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> > > Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> between a console and a handheld. What's a better feature a death match of
> Halo 2 online or unlocking 5 Madden cards.

The connectivity gimmmick is lame and matter of fact online could do
the madden cards even better.
Ryan E. - 14 Feb 2004 01:53 GMT
>> http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
>> Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>How many X-Box's were sold, and how many players are there online for X-Box?
>What percentage of X-Box owners play online?

Last I read I thought it was close to 14 million _shipped_ and about
750,000 active XBL subscribers and growing.

Considering this is their first entry into the market (and given the
obvious conditions of Xbox in Japan) it's not a bad start.
El Guapo - 14 Feb 2004 02:50 GMT
> >> http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> >> Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Considering this is their first entry into the market (and given the
> obvious conditions of Xbox in Japan) it's not a bad start.

Aren't the subscription numbers skewed by the fact that Microsoft has been
giving Live away for free?  If you get it for free and have a broadband
connection, of course you are going to activate it, whether you normally
would have been willing to pay for it or not.  I wonder what their retention
rate for paid subscribers is?  That's the number that matters.
Leon Dexter - 14 Feb 2004 03:14 GMT
"El Guapo" <plethora@pinatas.com> wrote in message news:K1gXb.31763

> > Last I read I thought it was close to 14 million _shipped_ and about
> > 750,000 active XBL subscribers and growing.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> would have been willing to pay for it or not.  I wonder what their retention
> rate for paid subscribers is?  That's the number that matters.

Yeah, you can count me in on that "free" number.  I signed up for free, but
have never played on Live.  I hate playing online.  I play games with my
friends, and not by remote.  But since it was free, I signed up and
downloaded the extra content for MechAssault and Splinter Cell.
Shadowspawn - 14 Feb 2004 05:56 GMT
>"El Guapo" <plethora@pinatas.com> wrote in message news:K1gXb.31763
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>friends, and not by remote.  But since it was free, I signed up and
>downloaded the extra content for MechAssault and Splinter Cell.

Personally, by the time I finished the single player portion of a game
I'm ready to move on to another title.  Unless the game is REALLY
enhanced by multiplayer like Rainbow Six or something.

What I DO enjoy about having Xbox Live is the additional content I can
download, levels, characters, cars, etc.  I'm not competitive or
social enough to actively seek out online games.  I've dabbled in
Crimson Skies and Links 2004 but I didn't find it any more rewarding
than playing alone.  Even games like PGR2 are cool to have global
scoreboards so I can see how bad I suck compared to the rest of the
world but I don't really care to race against real people.
Asianflow - 14 Feb 2004 07:22 GMT
> What I DO enjoy about having Xbox Live is the additional content I can
> download, levels, characters, cars, etc.  I'm not competitive or
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> scoreboards so I can see how bad I suck compared to the rest of the
> world but I don't really care to race against real people.

The thing I hate the most is quitters in sport games.
Shadowspawn - 14 Feb 2004 18:07 GMT
>> What I DO enjoy about having Xbox Live is the additional content I can
>> download, levels, characters, cars, etc.  I'm not competitive or
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>The thing I hate the most is quitters in sport games.

YEP - I don't even play sports games on PS2.  They seem to take it
more serious on Xbox since they are paying for it.
Mattinglyfan - 14 Feb 2004 20:57 GMT
> >> What I DO enjoy about having Xbox Live is the additional content I can
> >> download, levels, characters, cars, etc.  I'm not competitive or
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> YEP - I don't even play sports games on PS2.  They seem to take it
> more serious on Xbox since they are paying for it.

Yeah right.  That would be different if they were paying specifically for
the game itself but since it is a subscription that covers everything, they
quit just as much.  And paying doesn't stop people from feeling the need to
cheat.  If anything some people take it as a form of entitlement.  "Oh, I
pay so I have a right to be a jerk online."  I hate that crap period about
online console gaming.  PC gaming is so much more mature when compared to
its console bretheren.
El Guapo - 14 Feb 2004 22:24 GMT
> > >> What I DO enjoy about having Xbox Live is the additional content I can
> > >> download, levels, characters, cars, etc.  I'm not competitive or
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> online console gaming.  PC gaming is so much more mature when compared to
> its console bretheren.

Which is kind of like saying that 3rd grade is so much more mature than
Kindergarden.
Scott - 16 Feb 2004 03:26 GMT
>"El Guapo" <plethora@pinatas.com> wrote in message news:K1gXb.31763
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>friends, and not by remote.  But since it was free, I signed up and
>downloaded the extra content for MechAssault and Splinter Cell.

I've been on Live since before the launch (yay beta testing!) and I mostly
use it for downloading extra levels, skins and such. Sometimes I'll hop
online to play a game or just chit chat with friends who live far away
(cheaper than international calling). I even renewed. $50 doesn't seem so
bad given the nifty things I can download. But that's just MHO of course.

Signature

Scott

Stomp@here.com - 16 Feb 2004 07:11 GMT
>>> > Last I read I thought it was close to 14 million _shipped_ and about
>>> > 750,000 active XBL subscribers and growing.
>>> >
>>> > Considering this is their first entry into the market (and given the
>>> > obvious conditions of Xbox in Japan) it's not a bad start.

You also have to watch other factors in this equation, such as
Microsoft using this opportunity to bring VoIP to the market in a
veiled manner.  Nothing like having people buy into a new technology
in the guise of another.

>>> Aren't the subscription numbers skewed by the fact that Microsoft has been
>>> giving Live away for free?  If you get it for free and have a broadband
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>(cheaper than international calling). I even renewed. $50 doesn't seem so
>bad given the nifty things I can download. But that's just MHO of course.

Man is there anything more frightening to the people in this group as
the concept of something new?  

The issue here is whether or not Nintendo is going to be offering a
full system or a crippled system in comparison to its rivals.  I know
people who swear by online games on their PC/XBox/PS2 and others who
prefer single player.  Will the systems of the future be exactly as
they are now?  Are we going to see something akin to Starcraft and
Battlenet where the 3rd party companies provide this themselves?  

Who knows, but I think we thing we know for certain is that the
companies that provide the most options and flexibiilty are going to
get the most interest.  Despite what the 3rd place console system
exec's say.

As an aside on a local radio talk show I heard an XBox rep from MS
talking about the product and he claims that they are expecting to not
only continue with online interactions with the XBox but to expand it
in the future.  Possibly this will result in cheaper costs as well?

Stomp
Scott - 26 Feb 2004 02:12 GMT
>>>> > Last I read I thought it was close to 14 million _shipped_ and about
>>>> > 750,000 active XBL subscribers and growing.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>veiled manner.  Nothing like having people buy into a new technology
>in the guise of another.

Well I didn't comment on that (not the quoting) you bring up a good point
about VoIP. But hey, being able to chat with friends for virtually nothing
without being in a game is kind of cool. And VoIP isn't new. It certainly
must have its value since it's got the telcos knickers in such a twist.

>>>> Aren't the subscription numbers skewed by the fact that Microsoft has been
>>>> giving Live away for free?  If you get it for free and have a broadband
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Man is there anything more frightening to the people in this group as
>the concept of something new?  

Um, no. Where did you get the feeling that was frightening to me in what I
wrote?

>The issue here is whether or not Nintendo is going to be offering a
>full system or a crippled system in comparison to its rivals.  I know
>people who swear by online games on their PC/XBox/PS2 and others who
>prefer single player.  Will the systems of the future be exactly as
>they are now?  Are we going to see something akin to Starcraft and
>Battlenet where the 3rd party companies provide this themselves?  

If Nintendo thinks they can turn a profit from it they'll do it. Plain and
simple. We're already seing that the console manufacturer can provide the
online service (Xbox) or let the indivdual companies handle it (PS2). As
for the future who knows? As for me, I think Sony will probably offer some
sort of cetral service with one login and then let the 3rd parties handle
the actual server work for their games. Just a thought.

>Who knows, but I think we thing we know for certain is that the
>companies that provide the most options and flexibiilty are going to
>get the most interest.  Despite what the 3rd place console system
>exec's say.

Most likely. Or the company with the best marketing and mindshare. The two
aren't always the same.

>As an aside on a local radio talk show I heard an XBox rep from MS
>talking about the product and he claims that they are expecting to not
>only continue with online interactions with the XBox but to expand it
>in the future.  Possibly this will result in cheaper costs as well?

One can hope.

Signature

Scott

victorious newman - 14 Feb 2004 11:50 GMT
segas online strategy was gold ok folks hows this for mega merger
sega+nintendo???
Raph - 14 Feb 2004 15:10 GMT
> >> http://cube.ign.com/articles/492/492280p1.html?fromint=1
> >> Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Considering this is their first entry into the market (and given the
> obvious conditions of Xbox in Japan) it's not a bad start.

I started as a beta tester for Live and I just renewed for another year. I
play more single player games however I do enjoy an occasional hour or two
on Live. Not having online support did not stop me from buying 2 cubes
though. Now, I would like to see connectivity between cubes but I hate using
the GBA as a controller...it ruined FF CC for me.
Daniel Kolle - 14 Feb 2004 20:20 GMT
>Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand for
>it.

Hell, I cannot use it.

Do you know anyone who plays online with a 36k connection?

-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 15                        A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, and Krzysztof Penderecki are my Gods.
Madly Insane EAC Scientist.
Adnan - 14 Feb 2004 21:14 GMT
> >Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand for
> >it.
>
> Hell, I cannot use it.
>
> Do you know anyone who plays online with a 36k connection?

Not everyone has one you know. And the fact of the matter is that more
and more people will have broadband sooner or later.

> -Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 15                        A.A. #2035
> Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, and Krzysztof Penderecki are my Gods.
> Madly Insane EAC Scientist.
Daniel Kolle - 15 Feb 2004 21:22 GMT
>Not everyone has one you know. And the fact of the matter is that more
>and more people will have broadband sooner or later.

Not where I live!

-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 15                        A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, and Krzysztof Penderecki are my Gods.
Madly Insane EAC Scientist.
Delameko Stone - 16 Feb 2004 10:00 GMT
> > >Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand for
> > >it.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Not everyone has one you know. And the fact of the matter is that more
> and more people will have broadband sooner or later.

But you've got to take into account the number of computer illiterate people
too...  I was comparing games with an x-box owning guy at work last weekend
and he didn't even know what broadband was, he thought it was some sort of
wireless telephone...  (he almost passed out when I showed him my iPod)

Of the other three people I know who have x-box's, two of them don't even
know how to download stuff on their PC's (and are unwilling to try).  They
connect, log onto hotmail, and disconnect...  They wouldn't even consider
connecting up their x-box's unless someone did it for them...

None of them would be willing to pay a subscription to an online service...
(ALL would be willing to meet up and play split screen while downing a few
beers...)
Stomp@here.com - 17 Feb 2004 11:09 GMT
>But you've got to take into account the number of computer illiterate people
>too...  I was comparing games with an x-box owning guy at work last weekend
>and he didn't even know what broadband was, he thought it was some sort of
>wireless telephone...  (he almost passed out when I showed him my iPod)

This is very true.  But the question becomes should Nintendo make a
product that handles 'everything' or just 'segments'?

>Of the other three people I know who have x-box's, two of them don't even
>know how to download stuff on their PC's (and are unwilling to try).  They
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>(ALL would be willing to meet up and play split screen while downing a few
>beers...)

Yeah but so what?  Years ago the idea of paying for high speed was
unthinkable.  The idea of paying for a cell phone, (hey you have a
phone at home and there are lots of pay phones), was unthinkable.

This attitude that online gaming is going to be this $1000 a year
choice is childish.  The cost will be market.  

But even if it isn't.  Were Nintendo to offer me an ability for my
daughter to play safely with her friends for a couple of hours a
night... I'd pay $50 a month.  

Stomp
El Guapo - 14 Feb 2004 22:24 GMT
> >Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand for
> >it.
>
> Hell, I cannot use it.
>
> Do you know anyone who plays online with a 36k connection?

Sure!  Online solitaire, bridge, hearts, you name it!
BombayMix - 27 Feb 2004 12:07 GMT
> >Looks like he says online gaming isn't popular and there's little demand for
> >it.
>
> Hell, I cannot use it.
>
> Do you know anyone who plays online with a 36k connection?

Never had a UK Dreamcast then? Came with a 33k modem. Played PSO for
more hours then I care to admit using it.
 
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