http://cube.ign.com/articles/436/436877p1.html
Interview: Denis Dyack on The Twin Snakes
Silicon Knights talks Metal Gear, Solid Snake, Konami, Nintendo,
collaborations, next-generation, and more! Must-read interview.
September 05, 2003 - IGNcube recently traveled to Konami of America's
Redwood City, California-based offices to meet with a trim Denis
Dyack, president of Silicon Knights, the developer creating the
GameCube Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes. In a sectioned off
conference room hidden in the back of Konami's offices, Dyack openly
talked about the anticipated project, and touched on subjects ranging
from his inner-workings with Nintendo to what it's been like
collaborating with Hideo Kojima, the creator of the MGS franchise. He
also touched on what this Nintendo/Konami/Silicon Knights effort might
hold for the future. Read the full interview below.

IGNcube: Thanks for chatting with us, Denis. Can you start by telling
readers how Silicon Knights became involved with the Metal Gear
franchise and this project?

Denis Dyack: It's an interesting story. I was actually in Kyoto when
Eternal Darkness was finished and had been out, and I was visiting
with Miyamoto-san, Iwata-san, Ashita-san, Yamata-san, Tanabe-san, and
all the guys we work with on videogames. And we were talking about
some of the games we were going to do and we started planning and
doing stuff - the usual, which I can't talk about, sorry [laughs]. I
can't talk about specifically what those are, but I can talk about the
other parts. I was there for about a week, I think, and one of the
days I sat down [at the NCL cafeteria] and was eating and all of a
sudden Miyamoto-san and Iwata-san sat down beside me and I was sort of
like, "Hmm. What's going on?"
Miyamoto-san and Iwata-san started talking and [Miyamoto] looked at me
and said: "So, Denis, would you like to do Metal Gear Solid?"
I just looked at him and asked, "Pardon?"
Miyamoto said: "Well, I've been talking with Kojima-san [the creator
of Metal Gear] and we really want to bring a Metal Gear Solid to
GameCube. Kojima-san really would like to do it but his team is busy
and they really don't have a lot of experience with the GameCube. So
they're looking for a solid team that can work with them on this title
to ensure that it's of high quality and that it'll get done for the
Cube. We think you're perfect for it."
So I said yes.
The next day Kojima-san and a group from Konami took the bullet train
down and we had a big meeting where all of the presidents were there
and it was really interesting. We all sort of talked about it lightly
and saw if everyone meshed, and we did so we started the project right
there. One week later we flew to Tokyo and to Konami where
Kojima-san's group develops games and we spent a week talking to them
and seeing how the game's put together and decided upon a globally
strategy, and we started when we got back home. So that's how it
happened.

IGNcube: Did you know initially that Silicon Knights would work with
Konami and Nintendo on an enhanced version of the original Metal Gear
Solid, or did you think that you might develop a straight port?

Denis: I don't think anyone thought that a straight port would be as
exciting as what we're doing now. Certainly you know the history
behind us and Nintendo and how we always want to do something new and
exciting and I think Kojima-san also wanted to do something like that
to take a first step into the world of Nintendo on the Cube. So the
idea has always been Twin Snakes as it is now.

IGNcube: Okay. So this is a two-part question. First, how big are the
teams at Silicon Knights?

Denis: [Laughs] These are the trick questions.

IGNcube: Uh-huh. We're trying to get an idea of how you organized
Silicon Knights at this point. How did you break up the teams? How big
were the teams working on Metal Gear and other Nintendo projects?

Denis: But if I tell you the specific numbers you'll then be able to
calculate when the next title is going to come out and [know more
about] the game's I can't talk about.

IGNcube: We can't calculate that. It would all be speculation, of
course.

Denis: [More laughter] Well, actually I'm not allowed to talk about
the number of people on the project but I can say that Silicon Knights
is around 72 people.

IGNcube: Is the Metal Gear team a large team or a smaller group?

Denis: Oh, the Metal Gear team is a big one. It would not be possible
for it to be a small team because of what we're doing. If it was just
a port [the team] wouldn't be that big. But when you're talking about
taking the gameplay in general from Metal Gear 2 and applying it the
first, you have to do so many things. And some of the things create
totally new things. It really is a lot of development work. A
tremendous amount of work is being done.

IGNcube: You know, to follow up on that, there are definitely gamers
out there under the impression that Twin Snakes is just a straight
port of the original MGS. What would you say to those with this
opinion of the game?

Denis: Well, where to start? On the immediate level you're going to
see the difference in graphics between the original and what we're
doing now. We're taking the multiple texture layers on the GameCube as
an example - you know, bump-mapping, shine-mapping, all that stuff.
The character polygon models are very, very high now actually. The
framerate is running at 60 frames per second. The sound is all the
GameCube can do - it sounds great. And that's some of it on a
technical level. On a content level, there are tremendous amounts of
differences. All of the polygon demos are being totally redone. As a
matter of fact, there is significantly more footage. And it looks
fantastic. You'll see some of this and you'll get a good idea of where
it's being taken. My guess is that Metal Gear fans - even if it was a
straight port with these new cinemas - would want to see it. But one
of the biggest enhancements is the ability to do all of the things you
could do in Metal Gear Solid 2 in the Metal Gear Solid 1 world. And in
order to do this the environments change. So you have lockers in
places they weren't before; you have railings you can hang on and you
couldn't do that before. There are all of these different things that
you have to do and allow the player to do and this makes the game
totally different. Say you take the cargo docks as an example. You can
now knock out a guard and throw him in a locker. So there are all
sorts of different ways to finish a level. The boss fights are changed
- enhanced. I could go on and on. There is a lot. Everything is
changing.
Though people will see the spirit of Metal Gear Solid 1, it's
virtually a new game beside that.

IGNcube: You talked about the cinematics being modified. How so? Have
they been slightly tweaked or completely re-written?

Denis: Well, the storyline is the same, but the cinematography is
totally different.

IGNcube: How long has the game been in development?

Denis: I don't want to say exactly, but right around the time we
finished Eternal Darkness.

IGNcube: Okay. What's the release date?

Denis: It's this winter.

IGNcube: Would it be safe to say November, which is what we've heard
from Konami in the past? [Konami rep interrupts]: It's winter.

IGNcube: Winter is such a long season.
[Laughter]

IGNcube: Can you elaborate further on what other abilities from Metal
Gear Solid 2 you can now use in Twin Snakes?

Denis: Whew, there are so many. Well, if it wasn't clear before,
everything you can do in MGS2 you can do in this. So, that means you
can hang off rails, throw people over rails, use a first-person
shooting mode, shoot the guns and different parts of soldiers bodies.
All of the physics from MGS2 are in place. The ice cubes. If you shoot
a bag of flower it will spill out of the bags. It's all there. It's
even more than that because now the stuff from MGS1 needs more on top
of that. The AI - wow, is totally ramped up. I think it's safe to say
that if you look at the AI from MGS2 then we're at 2 ½ now.

IGNcube: Going back to some of the technical aspects of the game. Can
you offer more detail in regard to the visual changes from the
original? For instance, what are the differences in character model
polygon counts?

Denis: From the first game? Oh, I think the original had like 500
polygons per character - that's my guess. I don't know. It's pretty
low. I think we're close to 3,000 polygons per character. It's pretty
significant. And this is always in the game running. If you look at
some of our guards with the clear glass polygon shield - that looks
really neat in the game. That kind of stuff really sticks out. There
are many different types of guards now. We also have specific types
within those types. A lot of effort has been made to add detail to
what wasn't there before.

IGNcube: Tell us what you've learned from making Eternal Darkness and
how you may have used this knowledge in MGS: The Twin Snakes?

Denis: I think Kojima's group creates some of the best character
models in the world. I think while we may have had more polygon counts
in our Eternal Darkness characters sometimes than they did for the
models in MGS2, that people might argue that the Metal Gear characters
sometimes still looked better. And I think that's fair. That comes
down to talent and those guys are so awesome. So just from a pure
learning standpoint and I've said this before - I said it at E3 - that
working with Miyamoto-san is like working with Aristotle and working
with Kojima-san is like working with another great master.
And it's not just a casual call once a month to see how the game is
going. We have conference calls almost every night with Konami Japan
and Kojima-san's group and we've learned so much on how they create
models that we've been able to improve from that standpoint. Then you
take the added technology benefits of the GameCube and I think you're
going to see a significant gain as far as that goes.

IGNcube: How much input does Miyamoto give you? How much input does
Kojima offer?

Denis: Well, Miyamoto-san has always worked closely with us but at the
same time he works on a lot of projects. Meanwhile, as for Kojima-san,
the core group of his team has just left Silicon Knight after being
down for a month. We'll continue to work together like that in
addition to the conference calls we have four or five times a week. So
to answer your question, we work very closely. It's a collaboration of
all the groups, really. Certainly I think the bottom line is that we
have three groups trying to create the best game they can to make
consumers feel really good about it. Nintendo as a group wants people
to know that the quality is going to be high. Kojima-san's group has
such a high caliber vision as well and then there's ours. I think all
three groups combined is a great synthesis.
I think all three groups working together like this really says
something for the future. I really strong believe that the future is
content and this is a very content driven game. It's games like this
that will make the difference in the future.

IGNcube: What's your personal take on redoing a game that has
essentially already been on PlayStation? Why not instead do a remake
of MGS2 or even jump direct to a port of MGS3?

Denis: I think because they wanted something unique. If it would have
been a straight port of MGS1 or MGS2, that wouldn't be very unique and
I don't think anybody wanted that. At the same time, Kojima's group
was well into MGS3 and that was already working and going. So it was
either that we did something like Metal Gear Solid 4, which we
wouldn't be able to announce or talk about for like three years, or do
something like this that I think people are interested in. So I think
it was a good idea. I think there are a lot of GameCube owners who
haven't played Metal Gear Solid so I think it's good. I really hope
people get exposed to what kind of game this is. It's a title that
tells a story - a good story.

IGNcube: Does Twin Snakes run in progressive scan or 16x9 widescreen
mode?
Denis: I don't think we're going to run in progressive scan, but I'm
not sure. On widescreen mode, I'm going to have to get back to you.

IGNcube: Dolby Pro Logic II?

Denis: Yes. That we are doing.

IGNcube: Let's go back to E3 2003 for a moment. It was at this event
that you showed the Twin Snakes playable demo for the first time - and
so far you haven't let us go hands-on with an updated version. There
were definitely some complaints about demo, most notably in the
framerate department. Some critics said that it just wasn't up to
snuff. Do you agree with that assessment and if so will you be
tweaking the fluidity?

Denis: With that demo, we might not have been up to a consistent 60
frames per second. If that's the complaint then yes we agree with it.
But it is going to be running at 60 frames per second by the time the
game is done. If they want more fluidity beyond 60 frames per second
then I don't know what to do. [Laughs] We can try for 120 but it won't
make a difference on a NTSC television.

IGNcube: If you're guaranteeing 60 frames per second then we're happy.

Denis: Yeah. Yeah, we are. So we'll fix that. Don't worry. When the
game's done it'll be running fast.

IGNcube: Will there be any extras in the game? Say, the original
version fully emulated?

Denis: Yeah, I heard the rumor that we're throwing in Metal Gear Solid
2 - that's true, actually. [Laughs] No, it's not true! There will be
extras, but there won't be another game in there.

IGNcube: Okay. No Metal Gear Solid 2 then?

Denis: No. I wish we could do something like that, but it's a lot of
work.

IGNcube: Give it a month and the rumor mill will have you including
Metal Gear Solid 3 as an extra.

Denis: You know, the Metal Gear Solid 2 rumor all started on the IGN
forums. Someone wrote that they heard from a reliable source at Konami
that MGS2 was included in the game. I had eight reporters call me
about it.

IGNcube: GBA support? You had mentioned something about doing this at
E3 2003 - any news?

Denis: That's a good question. We actually decided to pull it out.
Yeah, we did. The reason we did that is because we had to make a
choice between the overall quality or trying to squeeze more in and
there's so much now. We asked what was more important - we all talked
together as a group, and we decided that the best thing to do was to
not include GBA support and instead make the game as best as it can
be.

IGNcube: Will there be any DVD-like extras? Say, a making of or a
behind-the-scenes?

Denis: I don't think there will be any of that, but there will be fun
stuff in there. There will be different modes where you can watch
polygon demos with people in different uniforms. Many, many things
like that - there are a ton. I think these define a Metal Gear title,
really, so to not have them would be a disservice. Players can expect
the same level of detail and some new stuff because this is a new
game.

IGNcube: More technical stuff - again. Sorry. Please confirm exactly
what you're doing? Bump-mapping, shine-mapping, dirt-mapping, lighting
effects, shadowing effects, etc.

Denis: We have a unified lighting pipeline which means that we have a
hardware light that lights dynamically the background and the
characters at the same time. That's the technology they were talking
about for the new Doom title. We also have some pre-lit stuff. So when
the character goes into some darker areas he'll get dark, but at the
same time as the camera moves around you'll see lighting effects on
the background as well. In our opinion, it looks pretty nice.
Bump-map, shine-map, yadda, yadda, yadda - we do it. I don't think
there's anything we don't do, that I'm aware of.

IGNcube: You took projected shadows out of Eternal Darkness at the
last minute.

Denis: Yes. We did take them out of Eternal Darkness. They haven't
been taken out of Metal Gear - they're here.

IGNcube: Excellent. Okay. We're just about done. But the obvious
question must come: what is Silicon Knights doing next? Come on! Don't
be shy, now.

Denis: I can't say.

IGNcube: Sure you can. Go on, let it slip.

Denis: Let it slip? I'd be dead.

IGNcube: Do you know what happened to Too Human?

Denis: Yes, I do! I can't talk about Too Human. But I do know what
happened to it. I'm sorry. I wish I could talk about things, but I
really think it's appropriate to focus on Metal Gear Solid: The Twin
Snakes right now.

IGNcube: Understood. But since you bring up Metal Gear, we're curious:
you've hinted time and again that this collaboration between Nintendo,
Konami and Silicon Knights is just the beginning. Can you elaborate?

Denis: Yes. I think that's one of the goals of the whole project. It's
very important. It's not just one game. It's a very exciting
collaboration between our groups and I think there is a strong urge
for people like Miyamoto-san and Kojima-san to want to work together
in the future. I think that's good for games. So yeah, I think
something is happening.

IGNcube: So, uh, is this your last GameCube project?

Denis: [Smiles] I can't talk about GameCube projects.

IGNcube: Or are you working on GameCube 2 projects?

Denis: What's GameCube 2?

IGNcube: Are you planning for the successor to GameCube?

Denis: I think there are a lot of people planning for next-gen right
now.

IGNcube: Are you one of those people?

Denis: [Pause] Well, we're always planning.

IGNcube: All right. You're off the hook! But we'll get you yet.