Game Forum / Nintendo / GameCube / December 2003
(Wash Post) Stodgy Nintendo Is Falling Behind in The Game Wars
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R420 - 25 Dec 2003 16:00 GMT (I'm posting this primarily because they mention Nintendo's next generation system, not trying to be negative or anti-Nintendo)
washingtonpost.com Not-So-Super Mario Stodgy Nintendo Is Falling Behind in The Game Wars
By Mike Musgrove Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, December 25, 2003; Page E01
For owners of the Nintendo GameCube, new offerings from the video game company can sometimes have a familiar feel.
Right now, the company's trademark Mario character is featured in another racing game, another golf game and the fifth in a series of party games with his name attached (do all plumbers have so much leisure time?). The Pokemon have moved on from competitions in the "Stadium"; now they will face each other in a "Colosseum." Details on yet another new Zelda game are sketchy at this point, but it appears that players will be spending at least some time poking through cartoony castles looking for magic crystals -- surely there's a princess in need of rescue around here somewhere.
The video game world may have changed much over the GameCube's two-year lifespan, but mostly not because of Nintendo. Competitors Sony and Microsoft have taken video gaming online, turned their game consoles into karaoke machines and developed ways to allow gamers to insert digital likenesses of themselves in an effort to win new audiences. Nintendo, meanwhile, has stuck to a philosophy that people who buy and play video games enjoy the familiar and care little for such gimmickry.
At the industry's main trade show this year, Nintendo executives "talked about how they wanted to be cutting edge and create great new games," said P.J. McNealy, an analyst at American Technology Review. "Then they rolled out a new version of Pac Man, which is about as old school as it gets, besides maybe Pong."
The lack of new offerings has some analysts wondering if the once-dominant Japanese company may be waning, the next Sega, consigned to make video games instead of selling the machines that play them.
Tried-and-true titles from Nintendo are still selling, but they are seeing diminishing returns. The most recent game in the company's popular Zelda series, called The Wind Waker, was one of the year's best-selling games. Since it became available in March, 1.3 million units have sold to date, according to research firm NPD. Not bad, but the 1998 release in the series, called Occarina of Time, sold more than 2 million copies in less than two months for Nintendo's last console, the Nintendo 64.
After a year of mostly lackluster sales for the GameCube console (save a recent spurt following a recent price cut) and declining support from game developers, it looks as though Nintendo may have miscalculated. In the United States and Europe, the $99 GameCube is No. 3 in sales, behind Sony's $180 PlayStation 2 and the similarly priced Xbox. In Japan, the GameCube is No. 2, behind PlayStation. The actual numbers are more telling; Sony has sold about 60 million PlayStation 2s around the globe so far, compared with roughly 10 million each for Nintendo and Microsoft.
"It's like a home run contest between Barry Bonds, you and me," joked Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities Inc. who follows the video game industry. "He'll hit 70 and you and I will hit zero. Or one."
Nintendo was not always an also-ran. During the last round of console wars, it and Sony were power players who squeezed out a third, smaller competitor. Sega, an established game veteran, eventually decided to pursue the higher-margin business of designing games, not building the hardware they run on.
Sega's lesson was that even the major players in this industry can only afford a couple of pricey missteps.
"The GameCube is teetering on the edge of whether they should stay in this business or not," said Jay Srivatsa, principal analyst at research firm iSuppli. "You can't be just teetering around in this market."
Nintendo maintains that it is staying in the business and will make a stronger play when it releases the next generation of GameCube. Sony's PlayStation 2 built its dominance by offering a new console in 2000, "a year ahead of us," said Beth Llewelyn, director of public relations for Nintendo. "We're not going to be in that position next time."
Sony also made a clever move in allowing games designed for the original PlayStation to be playable on the PlayStation 2 -- a compelling argument for gamers who, at $50 a game, may have spent hundreds of dollars amassing a library for the PlayStation 2's predecessor. The GameCube cannot play Nintendo video games made for older model machines.
Nintendo's ace in the hole this time out was supposed to be its ability to leverage its dominance in the handheld gaming market. With its Game Boy Advance, which has sold 42 million units worldwide, Nintendo essentially owns a massive market that the other console makers haven't touched yet.
Nintendo designed the Game Boy Advance so that it could be plugged into the GameCube and used as a controller. The company proclaimed that the Game Boy Advance would be a "Trojan horse" for the GameCube -- but that Trojan horse never opened because very few game designers have figured out cool ways to take advantage of that connectivity.
"There hasn't been a huge killer app yet," admitted Llewelyn, the Nintendo spokeswoman. As for that other type of connectivity, online gaming, Nintendo has expressed little interest in the concept. "We don't see it as a hugely viable business," she said.
Nintendo has focused many of its titles on the preteen and teenage gamer. By contrast, Xbox, often seen as the cutting-edge choice for older gamers, is offering a slick online service for players who want to go head to head over the Internet, and has consequently won a following that is an unlikely mix of grownup geeks and hiphop fans. Actor Jack Black and rapper Method Man have given the Xbox rave reviews; Rapper 50 Cent gave the console a shout-out in one of his songs and Sean "P. Diddy" Combs recently signed on to do some commercials.
Xbox's online game offerings are "the hip thing in gaming right now," said John Davison, editor of Electronic Gaming Monthly.
Nintendo has not divulged any news about what's next; the expectation in the industry is that the console makers will start to share some news about the next generation of video game hardware at the annual Electronic Entertainment Expo trade show in Los Angeles next spring. Conventional wisdom has it that 2005 will be the year the next wave of consoles hits the markets, though some have speculated that Sony might decide to squeeze another year of life out of the PlayStation 2 -- consoles are expensive to develop, after all -- and opt for 2006.
Game magazine editor Davison said the smartest thing for Nintendo to do would be to "circle the wagons" on the handheld market and give up the console market, a thought other analysts share. Sony is developing a handheld gaming device of its own, due out late next year, and if it ever dominates that market as it dominates the console market, it could be game over for Nintendo, the analysts said.
No one is counting Nintendo out yet.
"They can certainly recover in the next generation," said Brian O'Rourke, senior analyst at Instat MDR. "But the game console market might be starting to move beyond what Nintendo can deliver."
Sir William - 25 Dec 2003 17:33 GMT > (I'm posting this primarily because they mention Nintendo's next > generation system, not trying to be negative or anti-Nintendo) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Washington Post Staff Writer > Thursday, December 25, 2003; Page E01 Yet another mainstream media article that is written without great knowledge of video games and ends up serving the game companies that have interests outside the industry. It fails to mention that Nintendo is second overall in the home console race. Fails to mention that Nintendo has huge cash reserves and makes big profits every year (and will again this year after a loss the first half). And then there was the absurdity of saying Nintendo is making games for pre-teens, a popular statement but incorrect all the same.
It does an injustice to the industry to imply that all the console must offer the same things. Differentiation is vital in a competitive market.
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Chris Taylor Jr - 27 Dec 2003 04:46 GMT Actually they did mention that.
Playstation 60 MILLION consoles Nintendo 10 Million.
playstation is doing 6 times better than nintendo. that has got to hurt.
I own none of the current gen consoles. I have a PS1 and a N64 (both purchased longer after their prime)
but if I had to choose. Hmmm that would be tough.
Xbox for hackability and Halo (although halo is now available on PC) PS2 for MASSIVE game library Gamecube for price.
Xbox is probably out so it would be PS2 or Gamecube. Not sure which I would get.
When the PS2 goes below $120 and the game cube below $75 I will probably just get both.
Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/
> Yet another mainstream media article that is written without great knowledge > of video games and ends up serving the game companies that have interests [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > loss the first half). And then there was the absurdity of saying Nintendo is > making games for pre-teens, a popular statement but incorrect all the same. Sir William - 27 Dec 2003 07:35 GMT > Actually they did mention that. > > Playstation 60 MILLION consoles Nintendo 10 Million. > > playstation is doing 6 times better than nintendo. that has got to hurt. Umm, nope, doesn't actually hurt one bit. I still enjoy my Gamecube (and my Xbox and my Playstation 2).
 Signature Xbox Live Gamertag: SK Bondo Xbox Live Games: Rainbow Six 3, Ghost Recon, MechAssault, Project Gotham Racing 2 and Crimson Skies
Currently playing R6-3 (Xbox), Gladius (GCN), Project Gotham Racing 2 (Xbox), Ghost Recon (Xbox) and MechAssault (Xbox)
xTheSiskox - 27 Dec 2003 07:36 GMT >> Actually they did mention that. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Umm, nope, doesn't actually hurt one bit. I still enjoy my Gamecube (and my > Xbox and my Playstation 2). Too bad about likely half of those PS2's have been replaced already because clueless people don't know about cleaning thd drive lens, thus thinking it's broken and replacing it every year. ;)
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Moen - 28 Dec 2003 23:14 GMT > Playstation 60 MILLION consoles Nintendo 10 Million. Including handhelds? The GameBoy is the best selling console ever, isn't it?
Sinbad_EV - 25 Dec 2003 23:33 GMT Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely ignoring the internet and network and online thing. It acctually seems that they were focussing on NOT including online stuff, while this was okay 2 years ago when most online was all dial-up, it won't cut it with the next system they release.
What I'D like to see is a system who's standard joysticks are wireless enabled gameboys in the shape of a GCN controller, I mean, the think is small enough to be portable, you'd carry a gamecube controller around in your pocket right? Also the system would be broadband and networking ready, including handheld games that could be played online through the system, it would be backwards compatible, and able to play handheld games on the bigscreen just by putting the cart in the controller thingy in range of the home system and booting up without a disk... the thing would need it own hardrive, but the controller would have built in memory so you could take your data on the road...I also think that nintendo should include DVD/CD playback on the thing, they can make it only play games that are the proprietary tiny format without killing the playback option... note the Japanese released system that did just that... also ti should have USb ports and a built in browser... who care how bad it looks on a TV even if its a 1080p compatible television, it's nice to ba able to check your email on your gaming system (YAY dreamcast) and take standad USB devices like mouse and keyboard. also it would need a rewriteable firmware that would support software updates like live or drivers for digital cameras if this became needed in the future... I know they shy away from it, but making a system that plays games brilliantly but does everything else poorly is better then something with a broadband adapter that can't view web pages (come ON M$ and Sony, I just don't get this at ALL, differenciation my butt)... well anyways, here's to dreaming... *sigh*
SEV
c.j. - 25 Dec 2003 23:39 GMT > Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely > ignoring the internet and network and online thing. It was NOT ignored. They needed to build a userbase first. Which they are still doing and now it seems to have increased a good deal lately.
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Sinbad_EV - 26 Dec 2003 00:14 GMT Yeah... I'll bite... Nintendo's had a REALLY good Christmas... but I still say they ignored it with their NO Nintendo made online games... just thoughtfully spectating and biding is technically not "Ignoring", so I appologise for the use of the word.
SEV
> > Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely > > ignoring the internet and network and online thing. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > is no veil between me and the wheel of fire. I begin to see > it even with my wasking eyes, and all else fades. - F. Baggins Codswallop - 28 Dec 2003 04:24 GMT > Yeah... I'll bite... Nintendo's had a REALLY good Christmas... but I > still say they ignored it with their NO Nintendo made online games... Online gaming is hardly as big as people make it out to be. Like 5% (or less) of the X-Box userbase actually subscribes to Live.
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Moen - 28 Dec 2003 23:16 GMT > Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely > ignoring the internet and network and online thing. It acctually seems that > they were focussing on NOT including online stuff, while this was okay 2 > years ago when most online was all dial-up, it won't cut it with the next > system they release. And online gaming among console gamers is huge on systems where this is available?
George - 29 Dec 2003 00:28 GMT > > Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely > > ignoring the internet and network and online thing. It acctually seems that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And online gaming among console gamers is huge on systems where this > is available? I think MS has signed up 700,000 members to the Xbox Live service since March. Whether that is a huge amount I don't know but it sounds impressive. Sony recently had 22,000 online at once playing Socom, a new record. Either way as far as joe public is concerned MS and Sony are perceived as being at the cutting edge of online console gaming whereas Nintendo "appear" to have missed the boat. This gives the impression they are behind the times which might mean less sales in the long run or those who are currently online with Sony and MS sticking with them in the next generation. Otoh that might all be rubbish and Nintendo have nothing to worry about! :-)
Sir William - 29 Dec 2003 03:48 GMT >>> Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely >>> ignoring the internet and network and online thing. It acctually seems [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Sony and MS sticking with them in the next generation. Otoh that might all > be rubbish and Nintendo have nothing to worry about! :-) Well, it is only the impression, there is a PR problem that labels Nintendo as being worse off then they are. I think it is competition at its worst when it isn't about putting a product out and catering to various segments of the market but rather PR gets involved and shades the picture and the impressions surpass the reality.
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El Guapo - 31 Dec 2003 18:52 GMT > > > Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely > > > ignoring the internet and network and online thing. It acctually seems [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Sony and MS sticking with them in the next generation. Otoh that might all > be rubbish and Nintendo have nothing to worry about! :-) Those are tiny numbers in comparison to the number of gamers out there. The XBox Live numbers are also misleading because they give it away for free. Just because that many people sign up for it initially doesn't mean that they will stick with it or use it when it costs them.
However, I believe that you are 100% correct about the perception thing. At the very least, Nintendo should stop badmouthing online gaming. The only effect that has is to alienate the gamers and developers who are interested in it. They should also try to create the perception with their next console that they fully support it, even if they don't with their own games.
M3wThr33 - 27 Dec 2003 09:05 GMT Already posted my reply on SlashDot. Author is full of sh.t.
radeonr420@yahoo.com (R420) wrote in news:51488ce2.0312250800.74651964 @posting.google.com:
> (I'm posting this primarily because they mention Nintendo's next > generation system, not trying to be negative or anti-Nintendo) [quoted text clipped - 141 lines] > O'Rourke, senior analyst at Instat MDR. "But the game console market > might be starting to move beyond what Nintendo can deliver." El Guapo - 27 Dec 2003 13:30 GMT He obviously had a point he wanted to make, and he glossed over anything that did not support his position. I especially love the "(save a recent spurt following a recent price cut)" sentence. Parentheses show less emphasis or importance, so the writer is basically telling you, the reader, to ignore the "recent spurt" in sales as unimportant. Is it important? Sure, but the writer doesn't want you to think so because it doesn't support his thesis.
> Already posted my reply on SlashDot. Author is full of sh.t. > [quoted text clipped - 146 lines] > > O'Rourke, senior analyst at Instat MDR. "But the game console market > > might be starting to move beyond what Nintendo can deliver." Nero - 30 Dec 2003 12:34 GMT >He obviously had a point he wanted to make, and he glossed over anything >that did not support his position Just as all GC owners seem to forget the fact that PS2 is outselling them 6-1. The fact (and idea behind this article) is that Nintendo *should* have done much better as the only console veteran in the current race (especially with a cheaper and better console).
deKay - 30 Dec 2003 12:40 GMT Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des 30 Dec 2003 04:34:21 -0800, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do uk.games.video.gamecube, yawatina tan reek esk vandenh@excite.com (Nero) fornis do marikano es bono tan el:
>Just as all GC owners seem to forget the fact that PS2 is outselling >them 6-1. Not currently, it isn't.
deKay
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MKR - 30 Dec 2003 14:54 GMT >>He obviously had a point he wanted to make, and he glossed over >anything [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >*should* have done much better as the only console veteran in the >current race (especially with a cheaper and better console). Nintendo fell behind because they didn't hype like sony and microsoft did. Thankfully, they have finnaly figured out that having the superior marketing campaign is far more important than having the superior product, and have started advertising more.
I fully expect them to dominate in the next round.
El Guapo - 30 Dec 2003 19:00 GMT > >He obviously had a point he wanted to make, and he glossed over > anything > >that did not support his position > > Just as all GC owners seem to forget the fact that PS2 is outselling > them 6-1. Actually, it isn't now, though the difference in installed base may be in that range. And I don't think there are many GC owners who "forget" that fact, considering that it is pretty well known that the PS2 has an insurmountable lead. That's just a dumb statement.
> The fact (and idea behind this article) is that Nintendo > *should* have done much better as the only console veteran in the > current race (especially with a cheaper and better console). OK, but isn't the fact that Gamecube sales are now picking up, and that Nintendo has made progress with third parties by dealing with them differently, every bit as important? This article is yesterday's news, not today's.
deKay - 30 Dec 2003 20:27 GMT Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:00:26 GMT, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do uk.games.video.gamecube, yawatina tan reek esk "El Guapo" <plethora@pinatas.com> fornis do marikano es bono tan el:
>> Just as all GC owners seem to forget the fact that PS2 is outselling >> them 6-1. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >fact, considering that it is pretty well known that the PS2 has an >insurmountable lead. That's just a dumb statement. Also "installed base" is not "how many PS2s there are in homes", but rather "how many PS2s have been sold". The poor build quality of the units (like the PS before it) mean that may people have bought two (or even three or four) PS2s, replacing broken units.
deKay
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Moen - 28 Dec 2003 23:20 GMT > "The GameCube is teetering on the edge of whether they should stay in > this business or not," said Jay Srivatsa, principal analyst at > research firm iSuppli. "You can't be just teetering around in this > market." Why shouldn't they stay in the market? They own the handheld market. If they do something with this and their next home system, it could be a huge success.
What a silly, uninformed article.
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