Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Platforms
PCXboxPlayStationNintendo
Games
ActionStrategyRole Playing GamesSimulatorsSport Games

Game Forum / Nintendo / GameCube / December 2003

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

(Wash Post)  Stodgy Nintendo Is Falling Behind in The Game Wars

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
R420 - 25 Dec 2003 16:00 GMT
(I'm posting this primarily because they mention Nintendo's next
generation system, not trying to be negative or anti-Nintendo)

washingtonpost.com
Not-So-Super Mario
Stodgy Nintendo Is Falling Behind in The Game Wars

By Mike Musgrove
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 25, 2003; Page E01

For owners of the Nintendo GameCube, new offerings from the video game
company can sometimes have a familiar feel.

Right now, the company's trademark Mario character is featured in
another racing game, another golf game and the fifth in a series of
party games with his name attached (do all plumbers have so much
leisure time?). The Pokemon have moved on from competitions in the
"Stadium"; now they will face each other in a "Colosseum." Details on
yet another new Zelda game are sketchy at this point, but it appears
that players will be spending at least some time poking through
cartoony castles looking for magic crystals -- surely there's a
princess in need of rescue around here somewhere.

The video game world may have changed much over the GameCube's
two-year lifespan, but mostly not because of Nintendo. Competitors
Sony and Microsoft have taken video gaming online, turned their game
consoles into karaoke machines and developed ways to allow gamers to
insert digital likenesses of themselves in an effort to win new
audiences. Nintendo, meanwhile, has stuck to a philosophy that people
who buy and play video games enjoy the familiar and care little for
such gimmickry.

At the industry's main trade show this year, Nintendo executives
"talked about how they wanted to be cutting edge and create great new
games," said P.J. McNealy, an analyst at American Technology Review.
"Then they rolled out a new version of Pac Man, which is about as old
school as it gets, besides maybe Pong."

The lack of new offerings has some analysts wondering if the
once-dominant Japanese company may be waning, the next Sega, consigned
to make video games instead of selling the machines that play them.

Tried-and-true titles from Nintendo are still selling, but they are
seeing diminishing returns. The most recent game in the company's
popular Zelda series, called The Wind Waker, was one of the year's
best-selling games. Since it became available in March, 1.3 million
units have sold to date, according to research firm NPD. Not bad, but
the 1998 release in the series, called Occarina of Time, sold more
than 2 million copies in less than two months for Nintendo's last
console, the Nintendo 64.

After a year of mostly lackluster sales for the GameCube console (save
a recent spurt following a recent price cut) and declining support
from game developers, it looks as though Nintendo may have
miscalculated. In the United States and Europe, the $99 GameCube is
No. 3 in sales, behind Sony's $180 PlayStation 2 and the similarly
priced Xbox. In Japan, the GameCube is No. 2, behind PlayStation. The
actual numbers are more telling; Sony has sold about 60 million
PlayStation 2s around the globe so far, compared with roughly 10
million each for Nintendo and Microsoft.

"It's like a home run contest between Barry Bonds, you and me," joked
Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities Inc. who
follows the video game industry. "He'll hit 70 and you and I will hit
zero. Or one."

Nintendo was not always an also-ran. During the last round of console
wars, it and Sony were power players who squeezed out a third, smaller
competitor. Sega, an established game veteran, eventually decided to
pursue the higher-margin business of designing games, not building the
hardware they run on.

Sega's lesson was that even the major players in this industry can
only afford a couple of pricey missteps.

"The GameCube is teetering on the edge of whether they should stay in
this business or not," said Jay Srivatsa, principal analyst at
research firm iSuppli. "You can't be just teetering around in this
market."

Nintendo maintains that it is staying in the business and will make a
stronger play when it releases the next generation of GameCube. Sony's
PlayStation 2 built its dominance by offering a new console in 2000,
"a year ahead of us," said Beth Llewelyn, director of public relations
for Nintendo. "We're not going to be in that position next time."

Sony also made a clever move in allowing games designed for the
original PlayStation to be playable on the PlayStation 2 -- a
compelling argument for gamers who, at $50 a game, may have spent
hundreds of dollars amassing a library for the PlayStation 2's
predecessor. The GameCube cannot play Nintendo video games made for
older model machines.

Nintendo's ace in the hole this time out was supposed to be its
ability to leverage its dominance in the handheld gaming market. With
its Game Boy Advance, which has sold 42 million units worldwide,
Nintendo essentially owns a massive market that the other console
makers haven't touched yet.

Nintendo designed the Game Boy Advance so that it could be plugged
into the GameCube and used as a controller. The company proclaimed
that the Game Boy Advance would be a "Trojan horse" for the GameCube
-- but that Trojan horse never opened because very few game designers
have figured out cool ways to take advantage of that connectivity.

"There hasn't been a huge killer app yet," admitted Llewelyn, the
Nintendo spokeswoman. As for that other type of connectivity, online
gaming, Nintendo has expressed little interest in the concept. "We
don't see it as a hugely viable business," she said.

Nintendo has focused many of its titles on the preteen and teenage
gamer. By contrast, Xbox, often seen as the cutting-edge choice for
older gamers, is offering a slick online service for players who want
to go head to head over the Internet, and has consequently won a
following that is an unlikely mix of grownup geeks and hiphop fans.
Actor Jack Black and rapper Method Man have given the Xbox rave
reviews; Rapper 50 Cent gave the console a shout-out in one of his
songs and Sean "P. Diddy" Combs recently signed on to do some
commercials.

Xbox's online game offerings are "the hip thing in gaming right now,"
said John Davison, editor of Electronic Gaming Monthly.

Nintendo has not divulged any news about what's next; the expectation
in the industry is that the console makers will start to share some
news about the next generation of video game hardware at the annual
Electronic Entertainment Expo trade show in Los Angeles next spring.
Conventional wisdom has it that 2005 will be the year the next wave of
consoles hits the markets, though some have speculated that Sony might
decide to squeeze another year of life out of the PlayStation 2 --
consoles are expensive to develop, after all -- and opt for 2006.

Game magazine editor Davison said the smartest thing for Nintendo to
do would be to "circle the wagons" on the handheld market and give up
the console market, a thought other analysts share. Sony is developing
a handheld gaming device of its own, due out late next year, and if it
ever dominates that market as it dominates the console market, it
could be game over for Nintendo, the analysts said.

No one is counting Nintendo out yet.

"They can certainly recover in the next generation," said Brian
O'Rourke, senior analyst at Instat MDR. "But the game console market
might be starting to move beyond what Nintendo can deliver."
Sir William - 25 Dec 2003 17:33 GMT
> (I'm posting this primarily because they mention Nintendo's next
> generation system, not trying to be negative or anti-Nintendo)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Thursday, December 25, 2003; Page E01

Yet another mainstream media article that is written without great knowledge
of video games and ends up serving the game companies that have interests
outside the industry.  It fails to mention that Nintendo is second overall
in the home console race.  Fails to mention that Nintendo has huge cash
reserves and makes big profits every year (and will again this year after a
loss the first half). And then there was the absurdity of saying Nintendo is
making games for pre-teens, a popular statement but incorrect all the same.

It does an injustice to the industry to imply that all the console must
offer the same things. Differentiation is vital in a competitive market.
Signature

Xbox Live Gamertag: SK Bondo
Xbox Live Games: Rainbow Six 3, Ghost Recon, MechAssault, Project Gotham
Racing 2 and Crimson Skies

Currently playing R6-3 (Xbox), Gladius (GCN), Project Gotham Racing 2
(Xbox), Ghost Recon (Xbox) and MechAssault (Xbox)

Chris Taylor Jr - 27 Dec 2003 04:46 GMT
Actually they did mention that.

Playstation 60 MILLION consoles Nintendo 10 Million.

playstation is doing 6 times better than nintendo. that has got to hurt.

I own none of the current gen consoles. I have a PS1 and a N64 (both
purchased longer after their prime)

but if I had to choose. Hmmm that would be tough.

Xbox for hackability and Halo (although halo is now available on PC)
PS2 for MASSIVE game library
Gamecube for price.

Xbox is probably out so it would be PS2 or Gamecube. Not sure which I would
get.

When the PS2 goes below $120 and the game cube below $75 I will probably
just get both.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

> Yet another mainstream media article that is written without great knowledge
> of video games and ends up serving the game companies that have interests
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> loss the first half). And then there was the absurdity of saying Nintendo is
> making games for pre-teens, a popular statement but incorrect all the same.
Sir William - 27 Dec 2003 07:35 GMT
> Actually they did mention that.
>
> Playstation 60 MILLION consoles Nintendo 10 Million.
>
> playstation is doing 6 times better than nintendo. that has got to hurt.

Umm, nope, doesn't actually hurt one bit. I still enjoy my Gamecube (and my
Xbox and my Playstation 2).
Signature

Xbox Live Gamertag: SK Bondo
Xbox Live Games: Rainbow Six 3, Ghost Recon, MechAssault, Project Gotham
Racing 2 and Crimson Skies

Currently playing R6-3 (Xbox), Gladius (GCN), Project Gotham Racing 2
(Xbox), Ghost Recon (Xbox) and MechAssault (Xbox)

xTheSiskox - 27 Dec 2003 07:36 GMT
>> Actually they did mention that.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Umm, nope, doesn't actually hurt one bit. I still enjoy my Gamecube (and my
> Xbox and my Playstation 2).

Too bad about likely half of those PS2's have been replaced already because
clueless people don't know about cleaning thd drive lens, thus thinking
it's broken and replacing it every year. ;)

Signature

You must master your joystick as a fishermen masters bait! - Gimpy
(Undergrads)

Moen - 28 Dec 2003 23:14 GMT
> Playstation 60 MILLION consoles Nintendo 10 Million.

Including handhelds? The GameBoy is the best selling console ever,
isn't it?
Sinbad_EV - 25 Dec 2003 23:33 GMT
Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely
ignoring the internet and network and online thing.  It acctually seems that
they were focussing on NOT including online stuff, while this was okay 2
years ago when most online was all dial-up, it won't cut it with the next
system they release.

What I'D like to see is a system who's standard joysticks are wireless
enabled gameboys in the shape of a GCN controller, I mean, the think is
small enough to be portable, you'd carry a gamecube controller around in
your pocket right?  Also the system would be broadband and networking ready,
including handheld games that could be played online through the system, it
would be backwards compatible, and able to play handheld games on the
bigscreen just by putting the cart in the controller thingy in range of the
home system and booting up without a disk... the thing would need it own
hardrive, but the controller would have built in memory so you could take
your data on the road...I also think that nintendo should include DVD/CD
playback on the thing, they can make it only play games that are the
proprietary tiny format without killing the playback option... note the
Japanese released system that did just that... also ti should have USb ports
and a built in browser... who care how bad it looks on a TV even if its a
1080p compatible television, it's nice to ba able to check your email on
your gaming system (YAY dreamcast) and take standad USB devices like mouse
and keyboard. also it would need a rewriteable firmware that would support
software updates like live or drivers for digital cameras if this became
needed in the future... I know they shy away from it, but making a system
that plays games brilliantly but does everything else poorly is better then
something with a broadband adapter that can't view web pages (come ON M$ and
Sony, I just don't get this at ALL, differenciation my butt)... well
anyways, here's to dreaming... *sigh*

SEV
c.j. - 25 Dec 2003 23:39 GMT
> Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely
> ignoring the internet and network and online thing.

It was NOT ignored.  They needed to build a userbase first.
Which they are still doing and now it seems to have increased
a good deal lately.

Signature

I know that such things happened, but I cannot see them.
No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no
memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or
star are left in me.  I am naked in the dark, Sam, and there
is no veil between me and the wheel of fire.  I begin to see
it even with my wasking eyes, and all else fades. - F. Baggins

Sinbad_EV - 26 Dec 2003 00:14 GMT
Yeah... I'll bite... Nintendo's had a REALLY good Christmas... but I still
say they ignored it with their NO Nintendo made online games... just
thoughtfully spectating and biding is technically not "Ignoring", so I
appologise for the use of the word.

SEV
> > Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely
> > ignoring the internet and network and online thing.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> is no veil between me and the wheel of fire.  I begin to see
> it even with my wasking eyes, and all else fades. - F. Baggins
Codswallop - 28 Dec 2003 04:24 GMT
> Yeah... I'll bite... Nintendo's had a REALLY good Christmas... but I
> still say they ignored it with their NO Nintendo made online games...

Online gaming is hardly as big as people make it out to be.  Like 5% (or
less) of the X-Box userbase actually subscribes to Live.

Signature

- Cods

pbqf_at@ubgznvy.pbz
(un ROT-13 to e-mail)

Moen - 28 Dec 2003 23:16 GMT
> Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely
> ignoring the internet and network and online thing.  It acctually seems that
> they were focussing on NOT including online stuff, while this was okay 2
> years ago when most online was all dial-up, it won't cut it with the next
> system they release.

And online gaming among console gamers is huge on systems where this
is available?
George - 29 Dec 2003 00:28 GMT
> > Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely
> > ignoring the internet and network and online thing.  It acctually seems that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> And online gaming among console gamers is huge on systems where this
> is available?

I think MS has signed up 700,000 members to the Xbox Live service since
March.  Whether that is a huge amount I don't know but it sounds impressive.
Sony recently had 22,000 online at once playing Socom, a new record.  Either
way as far as joe public is concerned MS and Sony are perceived as being at
the cutting edge of online console gaming whereas Nintendo "appear" to have
missed the boat.  This gives the impression they are behind the times which
might mean less sales in the long run or those who are currently online with
Sony and MS sticking with them in the next generation.  Otoh that might all
be rubbish and Nintendo have nothing to worry about! :-)
Sir William - 29 Dec 2003 03:48 GMT
>>> Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely
>>> ignoring the internet and network and online thing.  It acctually seems
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Sony and MS sticking with them in the next generation.  Otoh that might all
> be rubbish and Nintendo have nothing to worry about! :-)

Well, it is only the impression, there is a PR problem that labels Nintendo
as being worse off then they are. I think it is competition at its worst
when it isn't about putting a product out and catering to various segments
of the market but rather PR gets involved and shades the picture and the
impressions surpass the reality.
Signature

Xbox Live Gamertag: SK Bondo
Xbox Live Games: Rainbow Six 3, Ghost Recon, MechAssault, Project Gotham
Racing 2 and Crimson Skies

Currently playing R6-3 (Xbox), Project Gotham Racing 2 (Xbox), Ghost Recon
(Xbox) and MechAssault (Xbox)

El Guapo - 31 Dec 2003 18:52 GMT
> > > Yeah, I think Nintendo REALLY missed the boat with the whole completely
> > > ignoring the internet and network and online thing.  It acctually seems
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Sony and MS sticking with them in the next generation.  Otoh that might all
> be rubbish and Nintendo have nothing to worry about! :-)

Those are tiny numbers in comparison to the number of gamers out there.  The
XBox Live numbers are also misleading because they give it away for free.
Just because that many people sign up for it initially doesn't mean that
they will stick with it or use it when it costs them.

However, I believe that you are 100% correct about the perception thing.  At
the very least, Nintendo should stop badmouthing online gaming.  The only
effect that has is to alienate the gamers and developers who are interested
in it.  They should also try to create the perception with their next
console that they fully support it, even if they don't with their own games.
M3wThr33 - 27 Dec 2003 09:05 GMT
Already posted my reply on SlashDot. Author is full of sh.t.

radeonr420@yahoo.com (R420) wrote in news:51488ce2.0312250800.74651964
@posting.google.com:

> (I'm posting this primarily because they mention Nintendo's next
> generation system, not trying to be negative or anti-Nintendo)
[quoted text clipped - 141 lines]
> O'Rourke, senior analyst at Instat MDR. "But the game console market
> might be starting to move beyond what Nintendo can deliver."
El Guapo - 27 Dec 2003 13:30 GMT
He obviously had a point he wanted to make, and he glossed over anything
that did not support his position.  I especially love the "(save a recent
spurt following a recent price cut)" sentence.  Parentheses show less
emphasis or importance, so the writer is basically telling you, the reader,
to ignore the "recent spurt" in sales as unimportant.  Is it important?
Sure, but the writer doesn't want you to think so because it doesn't support
his thesis.

> Already posted my reply on SlashDot. Author is full of sh.t.
>
[quoted text clipped - 146 lines]
> > O'Rourke, senior analyst at Instat MDR. "But the game console market
> > might be starting to move beyond what Nintendo can deliver."
Nero - 30 Dec 2003 12:34 GMT
>He obviously had a point he wanted to make, and he glossed over anything
>that did not support his position

Just as all GC owners seem to forget the fact that PS2 is outselling
them 6-1. The fact (and idea behind this article) is that Nintendo
*should* have done much better as the only console veteran in the
current race (especially with a cheaper and better console).
deKay - 30 Dec 2003 12:40 GMT
Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des 30 Dec 2003
04:34:21 -0800, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do uk.games.video.gamecube,
yawatina tan reek esk vandenh@excite.com (Nero) fornis do marikano es bono tan
el:

>Just as all GC owners seem to forget the fact that PS2 is outselling
>them 6-1.

Not currently, it isn't.

deKay
Signature

+ Lofi Gaming - www.lofi-gaming.org.uk  AC: deKay in Sponge
|- ugvm Magazine - www.ugvm.org.uk      Gamertag: deKay 01
|- My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
|- "YOU NOW PROSSESS DRACULA'S RIB"

MKR - 30 Dec 2003 14:54 GMT
>>He obviously had a point he wanted to make, and he glossed over
>anything
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>*should* have done much better as the only console veteran in the
>current race (especially with a cheaper and better console).

Nintendo fell behind because they didn't hype like sony and microsoft
did. Thankfully, they have finnaly figured out that having the
superior marketing campaign is far more important than having the
superior product, and have started advertising more.

I fully expect them to dominate in the next round.
El Guapo - 30 Dec 2003 19:00 GMT
> >He obviously had a point he wanted to make, and he glossed over
> anything
> >that did not support his position
>
> Just as all GC owners seem to forget the fact that PS2 is outselling
> them 6-1.

Actually, it isn't now, though the difference in installed base may be in
that range.  And I don't think there are many GC owners who "forget" that
fact, considering that it is pretty well known that the PS2 has an
insurmountable lead.  That's just a dumb statement.

> The fact (and idea behind this article) is that Nintendo
> *should* have done much better as the only console veteran in the
> current race (especially with a cheaper and better console).

OK, but isn't the fact that Gamecube sales are now picking up, and that
Nintendo has made progress with third parties by dealing with them
differently, every bit as important?  This article is yesterday's news, not
today's.
deKay - 30 Dec 2003 20:27 GMT
Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Tue, 30 Dec
2003 19:00:26 GMT, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
uk.games.video.gamecube, yawatina tan reek esk "El Guapo"
<plethora@pinatas.com> fornis do marikano es bono tan el:

>> Just as all GC owners seem to forget the fact that PS2 is outselling
>> them 6-1.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>fact, considering that it is pretty well known that the PS2 has an
>insurmountable lead.  That's just a dumb statement.

Also "installed base" is not "how many PS2s there are in homes", but rather
"how many PS2s have been sold".  The poor build quality of the units (like the
PS before it) mean that may people have bought two (or even three or four)
PS2s, replacing broken units.

deKay
Signature

+ Lofi Gaming - www.lofi-gaming.org.uk  AC: deKay in Sponge
|- ugvm Magazine - www.ugvm.org.uk      Gamertag: deKay 01
|- My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
|- "YOU NOW PROSSESS DRACULA'S RIB"

Moen - 28 Dec 2003 23:20 GMT
> "The GameCube is teetering on the edge of whether they should stay in
> this business or not," said Jay Srivatsa, principal analyst at
> research firm iSuppli. "You can't be just teetering around in this
> market."

Why shouldn't they stay in the market? They own the handheld market.
If they do something with this and their next home system, it could be
a huge success.

What a silly, uninformed article.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.