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GI.biz Comment: Nintendo's Revolution steps out of the next-gen battle (but there's a good reason)

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AirRaidJet@gmail.com - 13 Dec 2005 20:10 GMT
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=13579

Rob Fahey 15:33 13/12/2005
Information leaked about the specification of Nintendo's Revolution
console has confirmed that the company's approach is radically
different to its rivals' - so much so that it's hard to characterise it
as part of the next-gen race at all, argues Rob Fahey.

One of our first reactions upon emerging from Nintendo's conference in
Hollywood just prior to E3 this year, where the Revolution console was
unveiled for the first time, was that the company had effectively just
conceded the next-generation battle to Sony and Microsoft. It was the
most triumphant, optimistic concession we'd ever seen, but reading
between the lines, it was a concession nonetheless. Nintendo had just
told the world that it didn't want to play with the bigger boys any
more. The specification battle, the endless bickering over media
functionality and parallel processing and teraflops and supercomputing,
were of no interest to the Kyoto-based company that had played such a
vital role in defining what videogames mean in our culture. Nintendo
wanted out.

Last week, our first really solid look at the hardware that developers
are working on for Revolution proved that our assumption about the
company's intentions was correct. Nintendo is building a system
somewhere between two and three times as powerful as GameCube - no
parallel processing, no troublesome cutting-edge chips with their
inherent manufacturing problems, no next-generation storage devices, no
high definition output. It's got a bit more memory, some internal Flash
RAM storage, an attractive, slimline case and built in wireless
networking. Back of the envelope calculations suggest that it could
launch for as little as $150.

Is this next-generation gaming? Not the way that Microsoft and Sony see
it, no. Where's the HD Era? The Zen of Gaming? The Blu-Ray? The Cell?
The gigaflops, the teraflops? All of the watchwords which Xbox 360 and
PlayStation 3 have made into core parts of their next-generation
offering are missing from Nintendo's vocabulary. Fed up of the headlong
rush towards huge, expensive, loss-leading systems that pack more punch
than supercomputers did a few years ago, the firm that managed to make
a fat plumber with dubious dress sense and a Ron Jeremy moustache into
an icon for a generation of style-conscious children has stopped the
car in the middle of the freeway, Falling Down-style, and gone off for
a walk far off the beaten track.

Instead of dazzling graphics and massive processing power, Nintendo is
offering innovation that's more in the realm of gadgets than pure
computing. Their console is loaded with clever features, from the
unobvious - the clever way that the company has built a slot-loading
DVD drive that accepts both full-size DVDs and the micro-size discs
from the GameCube - to the glaringly apparent - an amazing control
mechanism that feels genuinely, radically different to any other method
of controlling a videogame. For developers, the challenge is creative,
not technical - how to get to grips with these unique features, not to
work out how to multi-thread their game code or build assets for games
on super-powered consoles using PCs which can't yet hope to match their
performance.

All very laudable, but at the end of the day, Nintendo is still
offering a system which will fall far behind its rivals in terms of raw
power. There will be no direct ports to Revolution as there were to
GameCube; there will be no talk of the system boasting the most
technically accomplished games of the next-generation, as there was
with the Cube and Resident Evil 4. Whatever about the debate that still
rages about the relative merits of the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
hardware, there's no doubt which console will be in third place in
terms of performance.

Is Nintendo mad? That depends on whether you consider it insane for a
company to launch a product with low manufacturing costs, easy software
development, high margins and strong brands and franchises backing it,
at a price significantly lower than its rivals can compete with. If
that's considered to be mad, then how do you describe the business of
launching a vastly expensive, cutting-edge box, after the investment of
billions of dollars in research and development and developer
acquisitions, each hardware unit subsidised to the hilt in the hope of
clawing back your investment on future software licences? In our insane
industry, Nintendo may even be a pillar of sanity.

After all, the last time anyone called Nintendo insane was when the DS
was unveiled. Now it's been outselling the PlayStation Portable every
week for around nine months in Japan, and you can't buy one for love
nor money in the UK, one of Sony's strongest global markets. The most
expensive packages on eBay? Pink DS units with copies of Nintendogs. In
hindsight, if you can make teenagers think a fat plumber is cool,
getting girls to demand games consoles for Christmas probably isn't
that tough, but nobody would have believed you if you'd told them this
time last year that Nintendo consoles would be facing supply shortages
because the female market was tearing them off the shelves faster than
they could resupply, leaving the boys scrounging for the odd
well-hidden silver unit on which to play the year's top online console
game, Mario Kart.

Can Nintendo win the next-generation war without even taking part?
Instinct says no. The hardcore will still gravitate to the powerful
consoles, and the PlayStation brand - in no small part due to Sony's
incredible work on expanding its appeal in recent years - is as strong
as it's ever been. However, can Nintendo make billions of dollars, sell
tens of millions of low-priced consoles, hundreds of millions of games,
and reinvigorate the entire industry with an influx of new customers?
They can, and they just might.
Slitheen - 17 Dec 2005 03:51 GMT
> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=13579

> Can Nintendo win the next-generation war without even taking part?
> Instinct says no. The hardcore will still gravitate to the powerful
> consoles, and the PlayStation brand - in no small part due to Sony's
> incredible work on expanding its appeal in recent years - is as strong
> as it's ever been.

I would remind the chap that wrote that, that it would be wise to consider
the past when making such assumptions. When the N64 was the most powerful,
the Playstation was stronger...despite it being technologically inferior. So
what is it? Has the Human psyche changed over night? Why would it be any
different now? As stupid as it is to try and assess a "winner" in the
rat-race that is this upcoming "console war", I would argue that of course
Nintendo *could* win it.
Guest - 20 Dec 2005 15:59 GMT
>> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=13579
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> rat-race that is this upcoming "console war", I would argue that of course
> Nintendo *could* win it.

Well the N64 was technologically superior on paper, but the public perceived
it to be inferior in reality.  The N64 had primitive cartridges which held
it back from performance.  It's polygon count was either exaggerated or
could not perform well enough due to the limited memory of the cartridges.
I notice how Nintendo does not put the N64 in it's hall of fame.  They are
losing the race.  They MUST come out BEFORE Sony does.
Sir Chewbury Gubbins - 20 Dec 2005 16:16 GMT
> Well the N64 was technologically superior on paper, but the public perceived
> it to be inferior in reality.  The N64 had primitive cartridges which held
> it back from performance.  

How so? I was under the impression that random access to the carts was
faster than random access to the PS1 CD. Ditto sustained reads.

>It's polygon count was either exaggerated or
> could not perform well enough due to the limited memory of the cartridges.

The cartridges didn't have volatile memory - they were read only,
providing the same funtion as the Ps1 disks. I think.

> I notice how Nintendo does not put the N64 in it's hall of fame.  They are
> losing the race.  They MUST come out BEFORE Sony does.

What in the name of Baal's nipples are you talking about? Why MUST they
come before Sony? Where is it they're going? Are they both running for
the same cab or something?

Jesus, why dontcha play some nice relaxing videogames instead of rushing
around like a quivering gimp, screeching about bees and monkeys.

Choobs

Signature

Sir Chewbury Gubbins <chewbury.gubbins@nelefa.org>
Knight of the Wholly Gnarly Widget
Mario Kart DS FC: 146 088 722 295
http://www.nelefa.org

Guest - 20 Dec 2005 16:58 GMT
>> Well the N64 was technologically superior on paper, but the public
>> perceived
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> How so? I was under the impression that random access to the carts was
> faster than random access to the PS1 CD. Ditto sustained reads.

It did, but the puny memory the cartridges had could not compete.  The games
were not deep due to memory contriants and you could feel it when you
played.

>>It's polygon count was either exaggerated or
>> could not perform well enough due to the limited memory of the
>> cartridges.
>
> The cartridges didn't have volatile memory - they were read only,
> providing the same funtion as the Ps1 disks. I think.

I think that you are wrong.  CD's held at least 100X what those N64 carts
held.  That fatal decision by Nintendo to keep a primative kiddie format
over high technology set them back to a position that they will not probably
not recoved from.

>> I notice how Nintendo does not put the N64 in it's hall of fame.  They
>> are
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> come before Sony? Where is it they're going? Are they both running for
> the same cab or something?

Because if they come out AFTER the hype and word of mouth of the PS3, no one
will even notice Nintendo's system with a PS3 and an X-Box 360 out.  It will
certainly be overlooked if the graphics are clearly inferior also.  When it
was Sega Master System and NES, SMS had better graphics, but Nintendo had
the better games.  That is what did it for them.  Not to mention the NES
carts loaded kind of like a VCR.  The SMS reminded us of Atari.

> Jesus, why dontcha play some nice relaxing videogames instead of rushing
> around like a quivering gimp, screeching about bees and monkeys.

Why don't you find a better way to do your job promoting the company that
you work for?  It id so glaringly obvious that you work for Nintendo and
make any excuse like we are some idiots who believe anything that you tell
us.  I am no 9 year old kid(target audience), I am 33 years old.  I am
telling you that it is over for Nintendo.  If I were the Japanese, I would
not want the people at Nintendo USA running my operation over here.  They
should hire me.

> Choobs
Sir Chewbury Gubbins - 20 Dec 2005 17:23 GMT
> I think that you are wrong.  CD's held at least 100X what those N64 carts
> held.  That fatal decision by Nintendo to keep a primative kiddie format
> over high technology set them back to a position that they will not probably
> not recoved from.

Ah, I see - so you're talking about STORAGE
Well, can't argue with that.

>> What in the name of Baal's nipples are you talking about? Why MUST they
>> come before Sony? Where is it they're going? Are they both running for
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> the better games.  That is what did it for them.  Not to mention the NES
> carts loaded kind of like a VCR.  The SMS reminded us of Atari.

That's very interesting, but doesn't answer my question.

>> Jesus, why dontcha play some nice relaxing videogames instead of rushing
>> around like a quivering gimp, screeching about bees and monkeys.
>
> Why don't you find a better way to do your job promoting the company that
> you work for?  

Because a discussion of systems integration techniques would be off
topic in this newsgroup.

>It id so glaringly obvious that you work for Nintendo and
> make any excuse like we are some idiots who believe anything that you tell
> us.  

Wish I did - they undoubtedly pay better than I'm getting here.

>I am no 9 year old kid(target audience), I am 33 years old.  I am
> telling you that it is over for Nintendo.  If I were the Japanese, I would
> not want the people at Nintendo USA running my operation over here.  They
> should hire me.

Your body may well be 33 years old.

Choobs

Signature

Sir Chewbury Gubbins <chewbury.gubbins@nelefa.org>
Knight of the Wholly Gnarly Widget
Mario Kart DS FC: 146 088 722 295
http://www.nelefa.org

Henrik Münster - 20 Dec 2005 17:39 GMT
> I think that you are wrong.  CD's held at least 100X what those N64
> carts held.  That fatal decision by Nintendo to keep a primative kiddie
> format over high technology set them back to a position that they will
> not probably not recoved from.

What position? The position as the only company actually making money
from selling game consoles?

> Because if they come out AFTER the hype and word of mouth of the PS3,
> no one will even notice Nintendo's system with a PS3 and an X-Box 360
> out.  It will certainly be overlooked if the graphics are clearly
> inferior also.

If the price is also inferior, which rumor indicates, I'm confident a
lot of people will buy the Revolution. I know lots of parents, who
don't have much money and who can't afford buying a lot of new gadgets
for their children. If they can choose between a game console costing
$100 and one costing $300, a lot of them will (be forced to) choose the
cheaper one. Why is it, everybody seems to forget about the price? It
does actually matter to a lot of people, how expensive a game console
is.

> Why don't you find a better way to do your job promoting the company
> that you work for?  It id so glaringly obvious that you work for
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> were the Japanese, I would not want the people at Nintendo USA running
> my operation over here.  They should hire me.

But there are still a lot of 9 year old kids out there. What's wrong
with targeting them? I have kids that age, and I prefer them racing a
kart around a track instead of shooting hookers in the streets of L.A.
Signature

Henrik Münster
[=[_]=] Nintendo DS
[+[_]::] Mario Kart DS friend code: 335067 499885

Guest - 20 Dec 2005 19:34 GMT
>> I think that you are wrong.  CD's held at least 100X what those N64 carts
>> held.  That fatal decision by Nintendo to keep a primative kiddie format
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> What position? The position as the only company actually making money from
> selling game consoles?

I doubt that.  No company sells ANYTHING and keeps selling something when
they are not making money of some kind on it.  Besides, the consumer can
give a damn which company is making money.  Nintendo used to be #1, then
slipped to #2 and can't get away from #3, which means they suck since #3 is
last place without another competitor.

>> Because if they come out AFTER the hype and word of mouth of the PS3, no
>> one will even notice Nintendo's system with a PS3 and an X-Box 360 out.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Why is it, everybody seems to forget about the price? It does actually
> matter to a lot of people, how expensive a game console is.

In this designer age where not many would be caught dead without desginer
clothes on, a luxury car, expensive cell phones, an overpriced Ipod and an
X-Box 360 or a PS3, who would choose a 'cheap' system over these high class
ones?  If Nintendo's market is "people who can't afford the other two," then
they might as well not even come out with anything!  Starting with the N64,
they started to make their systems cheaper than others.  Before that, they
were always more expensive.  That was becuase they had the name and it meant
the best.  Now it means, cheap?  People don't want cheap, they want the
best.  How many sports teams do you hear say that their goal is to come in
3rd place?  Come on...

>> Why don't you find a better way to do your job promoting the company that
>> you work for?  It id so glaringly obvious that you work for Nintendo and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> But there are still a lot of 9 year old kids out there. What's wrong with
> targeting them?

Actually, there is nothing wrong with targeting them.  There is something
wrong with targeting only them.  This is one of the reasons why Nintendo has
lost the race.  Sony realized the those who were kids years ago were turning
into adults and want every type of game.  Nintendo failed to change with the
times.

I have kids that age, and I prefer them racing a
> kart around a track instead of shooting hookers in the streets of L.A.

I as an adult, prefer to do both.  I owuld hate for the company to
officially back one or the other...
Henrik Münster - 21 Dec 2005 00:08 GMT
> I doubt that.  No company sells ANYTHING and keeps selling something
> when they are not making money of some kind on it.  Besides, the
> consumer can give a damn which company is making money.  Nintendo used
> to be #1, then slipped to #2 and can't get away from #3, which means
> they suck since #3 is last place without another competitor.

Third place in what? Sony and Microsoft are loosing money on their
games divisions. Nintendo is making money and is selling the biggest
number of systems by far, if you count in the various Game Boys. As far
as I can see, Nintendo is #1 in making money and #1 in selling systems.

> In this designer age where not many would be caught dead without
> desginer clothes on, a luxury car, expensive cell phones, an overpriced
> Ipod and an X-Box 360 or a PS3, who would choose a 'cheap' system over
> these high class ones?

iPods and gaming systems are not overpriced. The competition is fierce,
and the companies are making very little if any money. Still it is
better to sell a lot of units without making money rather than raising
the price and letting the competing products take over. Then they hope
to make money later selling games or other services like music in the
case of the iPod.

> If Nintendo's market is "people who can't afford the other two," then
> they might as well not even come out with anything!  Starting with the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> cheap, they want the best.  How many sports teams do you hear say that
> their goal is to come in 3rd place?  Come on...

So Hyundai should stop making cars, since everybody wants a Mercedes or
perhaps a Rolls Royce? There are cheap cars and expensive cars. The
same goes for stereos, furniture, houses, coffee, you name it. Deciding
to make everyday products, that normal people can afford is not the
same as aiming to loose. I've heard, that K-Mart is quite succesfull.

> Actually, there is nothing wrong with targeting them.  There is
> something wrong with targeting only them.  This is one of the reasons
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I as an adult, prefer to do both.  I owuld hate for the company to
> officially back one or the other...

But why should the company change target, as people get older? What's
wrong with making toys for children? You don't expect Mattel to make
Barbie dolls for adults og Lego to make bricks for adults, do you? I
understand, that people have emotions about their childhood gaming and
fond memories of Nintendo in the past. But what's wrong with making
games for children only? It worked twenty years ago, and even though
you have gotten older, there are lots of new kids, who'll want to play.
Signature

Henrik Münster
[=[_]=] Nintendo DS
[+[_]::] Mario Kart DS friend code: 335067 499885

Guest - 21 Dec 2005 06:03 GMT
>> I doubt that.  No company sells ANYTHING and keeps selling something when
>> they are not making money of some kind on it.  Besides, the consumer can
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> systems by far, if you count in the various Game Boys. As far as I can
> see, Nintendo is #1 in making money and #1 in selling systems.

Gameboy(s) don't count as that is another market.  Sony and Microsoft are
numbers one and two beased on sales.  When an end user has the product, that
is all that counts.  It means more games will be made and the unit will last
longer.

Last year, Nintendo already admitted defeat(1up.com) and claimed that they
would be FIRST out the gate with a new system.  Now it seems that they will
be last again.  However, that talk came from the always wrong and
misinformed Nintedno of America.

>> In this designer age where not many would be caught dead without desginer
>> clothes on, a luxury car, expensive cell phones, an overpriced Ipod and
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> everyday products, that normal people can afford is not the same as aiming
> to loose. I've heard, that K-Mart is quite succesfull.

A car is something that people can use and cars cost a whole lot more than a
videogame console.  When dealing with a product that people can do without,
they will either get the real deal or nothing.  I cannot say that I have
seen anyone in their mid teens and up with a Gamecube.  All have had PS2 or
Xbox.

>> Actually, there is nothing wrong with targeting them.  There is something
>> wrong with targeting only them.  This is one of the reasons why Nintendo
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> But why should the company change target, as people get older? What's
> wrong with making toys for children?

It is ok to target children, but when the product in question is something
that adults partake in also, having a kiide machine/toy is not cool.  No one
feels ashamed of having a PS2 at any age.  The marketing people at NOA need
to be canned!  Let me head NOA and I will put the company back at the top.
Old-school rules of gaming do not apply in this modern age.

You don't expect Mattel to make
> Barbie dolls for adults og Lego to make bricks for adults, do you? I
> understand, that people have emotions about their childhood gaming and
> fond memories of Nintendo in the past. But what's wrong with making games
> for children only? It worked twenty years ago,

When I too was a child and Nintendo (NES) had no real comp.  It was easier
to do back then.  Now it is different.  You are fighting back from the grave
and looking to repeat the same actions that took you there.

and even though
> you have gotten older, there are lots of new kids, who'll want to play.
Joerg Jaeger - 21 Dec 2005 04:31 GMT
>>> I think that you are wrong.  CD's held at least 100X what those N64 carts
>>> held.  That fatal decision by Nintendo to keep a primative kiddie format
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>best.  How many sports teams do you hear say that their goal is to come in
>3rd place?  Come on...

That is a to easy explanation.
fact is, that Nintendo lost some of the better software makers to Sony
at the time the Playstation came to life.
So what happened? Did people got impressed by the new Porsche under
the consoles? No, not quite. People got impressed with these cool
games, like Final Fantasy on the Playstation (that is just an
example).
It is by any means, not only the "cheap" hardware what brought people
away from Nintendo. It was more or less that the Nintendo System was a
family entertainment system with no nudity or gore. So people went to
Sony, where they got just that.
Maybe we witnessed this particular time differently, but people made a
switch to Sony, because of the titles and the DVD feature and not
because the Playstation was a much better (more expensive) console.

>>> Why don't you find a better way to do your job promoting the company that
>>> you work for?  It id so glaringly obvious that you work for Nintendo and
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>I as an adult, prefer to do both.  I owuld hate for the company to
>officially back one or the other...

--
Nintendo DS - currently playing > Final Fantasy IV
Gamecube    - currently playing > Metroid Prime 2
PS2         - currently playing > Dragon Quest VIII

current Ebay auction's:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8243519857
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8243522764
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8243525308
El Guapo - 21 Dec 2005 06:14 GMT
>>> I think that you are wrong.  CD's held at least 100X what those N64
>>> carts held.  That fatal decision by Nintendo to keep a primative kiddie
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> slipped to #2 and can't get away from #3, which means they suck since #3
> is last place without another competitor.

You don't know much about bidness, do ya fella?  Lots of products are sold
at a loss as part of a long term strategy.  Microsoft has yet to see a dime
of (overall, not operating) profit from the XBox, and still may not until
after this generation is over, or close to it.

On the other hand, I do get a little tired of people saying that Sony
doesn't make money with their consoles.  The PS1 and PS2 made boatloads of
money for Sony - in fact, the PS2 practically kept Sony afloat when
otherwise they would have been drowning in red ink due to the decline in
their core electronics business.

On the other other hand, nobody seems to have the knack Nintendo does of
squeezing profits out of relatively low sales.  If the Revolution does well,
they will probably be much more profitable in the console gaming business
than either MS or Sony.

>>> Because if they come out AFTER the hype and word of mouth of the PS3, no
>>> one will even notice Nintendo's system with a PS3 and an X-Box 360 out.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> cheap, they want the best.  How many sports teams do you hear say that
> their goal is to come in 3rd place?  Come on...

You're right!  That explains why Wal-Mart has been such a failure!  You must
be some kind of economical genius, my friend.  Everybody else thought the
whole "every day low prices" thing was a huge success!

>>> Why don't you find a better way to do your job promoting the company
>>> that you work for?  It id so glaringly obvious that you work for
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> turning into adults and want every type of game.  Nintendo failed to
> change with the times.

I *kind of* agree with you here - not about the kids turning into adults,
yada yada yada part.  But it's true that Nintendo forgot that in order to
appeal to kids, you still have to look cool enough to hold your own on the
playground.  Considering how the Revolution looks compared to the Gamecube,
and the stuff they are putting in it like wireless 3D controllers, wireless
internet, flash memory, SD cards - I think you can consider it a lesson
learned.
Guest - 21 Dec 2005 16:13 GMT
>>>> I think that you are wrong.  CD's held at least 100X what those N64
>>>> carts held.  That fatal decision by Nintendo to keep a primative kiddie
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> must be some kind of economical genius, my friend.  Everybody else thought
> the whole "every day low prices" thing was a huge success!

See, I don't mean cheap prices, I am talking about (percieved) cheap
product.  There is a difference.  I like Post Raisin Bran.  It is a little
over $3 at regualt food stores, but it is $1.86 at Wal-Mart.  Where do I go
to get it?  You got it.  That is the same product and same quality at a
lower(cheaper) PRICE.  So I have not problem paying less.  Now, do I want a
Honda Accord or that Hyuandi knock-off?  I am not talking price here, I am
talking inferior product.  Or precieved inferior product.

>>>> Why don't you find a better way to do your job promoting the company
>>>> that you work for?  It id so glaringly obvious that you work for
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> controllers, wireless internet, flash memory, SD cards - I think you can
> consider it a lesson learned.
Joerg Jaeger - 21 Dec 2005 18:57 GMT
>>>>> I think that you are wrong.  CD's held at least 100X what those N64
>>>>> carts held.  That fatal decision by Nintendo to keep a primative kiddie
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>Honda Accord or that Hyuandi knock-off?  I am not talking price here, I am
>talking inferior product.  Or precieved inferior product.

See, to me, Wal-Mart is a crap store.
And i don't want to support them and how they tread employees. For
that reason, i give a f*** to buy thinks there.
I rather spend a little more somewhere else and don't follow the hype,
Always low prices, always low pay.
Its people like you (in general) who have to realize, that even if you
want to save some money, somebody has to pay for it.

--
Nintendo DS - currently playing > Final Fantasy IV
Gamecube    - currently playing > Metroid Prime 2
PS2         - currently playing > Dragon Quest VIII

current Ebay auction's:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8243519857
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8243522764
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8243525308
Rob White - 20 Dec 2005 21:41 GMT
> It did, but the puny memory the cartridges had could not compete.  The games
> were not deep due to memory contriants and you could feel it when you
> played.

I concur, but also think that whoever-it-was did an absolutely
fantastic job of squeezing Resident Evil 2 on to a cartridge from two
CDs. Not sure about any other ports they did, but that one sticks in my
memory.

As games have got (and will continue to get) longer, more detailed and
more complicated more console companies should look at the size of
their formats.

GTA: San Andreas could have been even better (!) if they had the space
on the disk to include the things that were omitted. Somebody on
a.g.g-t-a mentioned a while ago that just 47 bytes were left unused on
the game disk.

Cheers,
Rob
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Joerg Jaeger - 21 Dec 2005 04:14 GMT
>>> Well the N64 was technologically superior on paper, but the public
>>> perceived
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>over high technology set them back to a position that they will not probably
>not recoved from.

Did you play on the N64, besides Mario64? Perfect Dark is not really
kiddy and there are other examples.
But yes, the cardridge format was a bad choice for Nintendo and they
know it.

>>> I notice how Nintendo does not put the N64 in it's hall of fame.  They
>>> are
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>the better games.  That is what did it for them.  Not to mention the NES
>carts loaded kind of like a VCR.  The SMS reminded us of Atari.

Overlooked by the hyped crowd, but there are certainly people who will
buy the system. Nintendo will be anyway in the 3th row, so why border
with the power of a console.

>> Jesus, why dontcha play some nice relaxing videogames instead of rushing
>> around like a quivering gimp, screeching about bees and monkeys.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>not want the people at Nintendo USA running my operation over here.  They
>should hire me.

I am not sure what to say, but that Nintendo is death is death wrong.
we heard those naysayer for so long time. Everytime somebody says, uh,
Nintendo is Death, oh they must going out of Business.
Who cares. It is nonsense.
Nintendo sells well and satisfies a lot of people. Maybe you want to
position Nintendo to be the Nr.1, but time will tell, if Nintendos
strategy is the right one.

>> Choobs

--
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PS2         - currently playing > Dragon Quest VIII

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Slitheen - 21 Dec 2005 20:20 GMT
>>> Well the N64 was technologically superior on paper, but the public
>>> perceived
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> games were not deep due to memory contriants and you could feel it when
> you played.

ROFL. Legend Of Zelda: OOT, the epic it was, was not "deep"?. PMSL.
Slitheen - 21 Dec 2005 20:39 GMT
>>> Well the N64 was technologically superior on paper, but the public
>>> perceived
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> not want the people at Nintendo USA running my operation over here.  They
> should hire me.

Well you poor bastard, you must have learning difficulties. Look into it a
bit deeper and ask around, you'll find 99.99% of the people levelling the
"kiddie" jibes at Nintendo products are still at that age where they are
desperately trying to distance themselves from childhood by embracing all
that is "grown up". I have dug around, asked the age of the people saying
such things - they are all kids or teenagers, no older than 21. That is
because, normal people get to an age where you don't have to feel this way
anymore - I'm 34, and my similarly aged social circle are old enough, savvy
enough, and wise enough to still see that Nintendo make games that are
accessible by all age groups, including our own. We know if a games is good,
that's all there is to it - if it is all brightly coloured and could look
fun to a 9 year old at the same time, that's cool with us
because_it's_a_good_game. So my friends and I regularly switch between the
likes of Resident Evil...to Zelda: Wind Waker, or Mario Football and the
like. We have nothing to prove to anyone by grasping the first shiny,
probably silver coloured, techie looking device and proclaiming with its use
that we are all grown up and sophisticated. We also recognise that we are as
much Nintendo's targeted demographic as any other age range. Why did this
important stage in your social development bypass you exactly? Why does it
still make you feel all the more grown up by saying, "Eww, take it away from
me, that's for kids!"? Are you a "special school" case or something? Or are
you indeed the infamous Nathan Barley? :-\
kevin - 22 Dec 2005 01:01 GMT
>l you poor bastard, you must have learning difficulties. Look into it a
>bit deeper and ask around, you'll find 99.99% of the people levelling the
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>me, that's for kids!"? Are you a "special school" case or something? Or are
>you indeed the infamous Nathan Barley? :-\

I totally agree with what you are saying.  The problem is ALOT of
gamers ARE at the age where they dont want to be percieved as playing
a kiddy console/game.  Nintendo need's to find a way to appeal to them
as well with the Revolution.   I think the headway they are making
with DS is going in the right direction.
Slitheen - 22 Dec 2005 19:13 GMT
>>l you poor bastard, you must have learning difficulties. Look into it a
>>bit deeper and ask around, you'll find 99.99% of the people levelling the
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> as well with the Revolution.   I think the headway they are making
> with DS is going in the right direction.

You gotta be careful where you go with that. See the thread on the Xbox
group about people giving up on PDZero because of its far too steep learning
curve. The targeted demographic have cried out for all things "grown-up" -
the developers took this as them wanting hair-pullingly difficult games, and
now the game they've all been waiting for is already sitting neglected on
half its owners shelves. Wouldn't have happened on Nintendo system. M$ are
very welcome to Rare AFAINC. Nintendo won't be bullied in a similar way, and
we will continue to get fun games - let the odd idiot cry about Nintendo's
"kiddie" products, they'll get bored soon enough and quit yipping. They can
then spend an hour or two with PDZero, a 360, and a wall to but their heads
against... or throw their controller at. :)
kevin - 22 Dec 2005 21:25 GMT
>>>l you poor bastard, you must have learning difficulties. Look into it a
>>>bit deeper and ask around, you'll find 99.99% of the people levelling the
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>then spend an hour or two with PDZero, a 360, and a wall to but their heads
>against... or throw their controller at. :)

I agree there are lots of fun games for the Ds and even the cube.  I
look forward to the Revolution as well.  I think Nintendo's strategy
of targeting mainstream (non-gamers or casual gamers etc..) is a great
idea to increase their audience  BUT I think they need to revamp their
image with the hardcore gamers too.   The Rev look's like it will be
great for FPS games (maybe even better then a PC) if they play their
cards right they can go far with this...
Guest - 23 Dec 2005 13:33 GMT
>>>l you poor bastard, you must have learning difficulties. Look into it a
>>>bit deeper and ask around, you'll find 99.99% of the people levelling the
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> 360, and a wall to but their heads against... or throw their controller
> at. :)

PDZ was overhyped and corny.  Nintendo must move forward and not always look
backwards.
Luneric - 23 Dec 2005 17:08 GMT
> Nintendo must move forward and not always look backwards.

I think that couldn't be further from what would be beneficial for not
just Nintendo, but also Microsoft and Sony. The past is to be learnt
from, and moving forward and innovating doesn't necessarly mean we can't
still enjoy the past (backwards compatabilty, anyone?)
Guest - 24 Dec 2005 03:49 GMT
>> Nintendo must move forward and not always look backwards.
>
> I think that couldn't be further from what would be beneficial for not
> just Nintendo, but also Microsoft and Sony. The past is to be learnt from,
> and moving forward and innovating doesn't necessarly mean we can't still
> enjoy the past (backwards compatabilty, anyone?)

I meant them always talking about past accomplishments as to why you should
buy a Revolution.  What they did then was what they DID.  What they do is
what we need to know about.
El Guapo - 28 Dec 2005 19:23 GMT
>>> Nintendo must move forward and not always look backwards.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> should buy a Revolution.  What they did then was what they DID.  What they
> do is what we need to know about.

Right... because all past Nintendo consoles have offered 3D expandable
wireless controllers, built in flash memory, built in Wi-Fi, SD card
readers, downloadable games, and backwards compatability.  Why, they are
hardly changing a thing!
Joerg Jaeger - 23 Dec 2005 21:24 GMT
Why?
For you, so you buy a Nintendo product again? Silly.

>>>>l you poor bastard, you must have learning difficulties. Look into it a
>>>>bit deeper and ask around, you'll find 99.99% of the people levelling the
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>PDZ was overhyped and corny.  Nintendo must move forward and not always look
>backwards.

--
Nintendo DS - currently playing > Final Fantasy IV
Gamecube    - currently playing > Metroid Prime 2
PS2         - currently playing > Dragon Quest VIII

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